210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggeh]

Cazlee wrote...

You don't undertake a major project like that without already knowing who your target market is. Anyhow even if you didn't, the marketing strategy would not be determined one day before release.

You'd be surprised.

Not saying it's the case here mind, just that's how they're often used in film. I can't say I've ever heard of one for games before.

[Ziggeh]

Zine2 wrote...
I'll just apply your own ridiculous standards on you.

Prove that people who pre-order are more invested in the game.

Don't give me assumptions. PROVE it.

Those aren't my standards.

I want a reasonable argument, not numbers. I've provided one. Try providing either.

[MaxMcKay]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

I like the ending so do my friends that play it, only seen people on the internet hate it. i suspect half of those just watched it on youtube out of context. also i havent seen a consistent complaint about it just alot of individuals with there own ending

uh which part of the 90% of the polled audience did you miss?

On another note, which part of them releasing the poll getting that kind of feed back did they not understand?  Who thought up "artistic" as a defense?!

[PaxtonFetel]

Translation test highlighted in red.

In the nearest time will come
addition extendet cut - you are waiting for a new endings and new
cinematic cutscenes.

Don't know can the error of our localizers, maybe
more.

social.bioware.com/uploads_user/3864000/3863675/198249.jpg

Modifié par PaxtonFetel, 18 avril 2012 - 10:37 .

[Orumon]

t_skwerl wrote...

Looks like they should have taken that poll a couple of months earlier.

Or, y'know, taken what it said on board and delayed the game to rewrite the endings.

[Vigil_N7]

If on-line polls were of any relevance, Ron Paul would be the front-runner to become the next president of the United States of America.

All that on-line poll shows is obviously, that 90% of the people who voted disliked it. However, first of that could be 90% out of 100, 90% out of 1000, etc. It doesn't give a true representation of the entire player base.

Secondly, people are always going to be more vocal about something they disliked, that's just the way things work. Most people who enjoyed the game probably have moved on or have re-played it, not spending their time on BSN.

Mass Effect 3 sold over two million copies, you really think 1.8 million people were dissatisfied with the ending?

But of course, people once again frantically latch onto any "evidence" they can to "prove" their point.

[Orumon]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

I like the ending so do my friends that play it, only seen people on the internet hate it. i suspect half of those just watched it on youtube out of context. also i havent seen a consistent complaint about it just alot of individuals with there own ending

Then you haven't actually been fully reading the complaints here on BSN. It's good that you enjoyed the endings, but I feel that the issue they attempted tackled was adressed elsewhere and better (both of the Deus ex Sequels in this case).

Tacking on the issue to the end of ME3 without any buildup or discussion results in disconnect and devalues all the choices that point.

You aren't the only one who played the three games through and most people are aware of how jarring it is for a game built on options and choice to suddenly come down to three subtly different varietions of one ending.

[PaxtonFetel]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

?

But of course, people once again frantically latch onto any "evidence" they can to "prove" their point.

Until this is especially to those who liked the ending. These people deny the reality.

[Ziggeh]

Vigil_N7 wrote...
But of course, people once again frantically latch onto any "evidence" they can to "prove" their point.

That's what bugs me the most about polls. Peoples standard of evidence changes depending on whether it supports them or not.

Where is the healthy cynicism? That's what I want to know.

[dsl08002]

I know that I shouldn´t guess about and say that we are a majority that wants a new ending but i have latley been talking to my friends and thay also belive that the ending is terrible.

So right now i´m actually starting to belive that we are a majority.

[Ziggeh]

dsl08002 wrote...

I know that I shouldn´t guess about and say that we are a majority that wants a new ending but i have latley been talking to my friends and thay also belive that the ending is terrible.

So right now i´m actually starting to belive that we are a majority.

I think you can say we are. There should probably be some caveats in there somewhere, but while these polls are generally useless on their own, useful information can be drawn from taking them as an aggregate.

If we were a minority you'd expect to see more variance in selection polls and more defence generally. It's not impossible for the picture we're getting to come from a minority, but it's reasonably unlikely.

[Klijpope]

Chatting to my students, the ones who have played the game either don't mind the ending or just find it it a bit meh. The ones who hate the ending have not played the game - they're just parroting what they've read on the internet.

Nothing scientific about that anecdotal evidence; also nothing scientific about the poll - without demographic data it is not that helpful.

Orumon wrote...
You aren't the only one who played the three games through and most people are aware of how jarring it is for a game built on options and choice to suddenly come down to three subtly different varietions of one ending.

The final choices only look like subtly different variations of each other - the implications of each of them is profoundly different - it is actually the biggest choice Shepard makes - it just does not look like it. People seem to forget that instead of just throwing round catchphrases like "space magic" (which, as it happens, also describes Eezo and the mass effect itself).

Some nuance to the criticism would be helpful all round. This board has been poisoned by an overdose of sarcasm.

[Torrible]

 Damn, this thread moves fast. Anyway I did a small experiment. I logged in to an account that has no games registered and I was able to vote in this poll: 
 http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/ 

Proves that no ownership of the game (and by extension any knowledge of the ending) is needed to order to vote. The forums couldn't detect that I have essentially voted twice.

[Orumon]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Yeah, and where is this magical mystery poll exactly? *snort*

It was released about 3 days before Mass effect 3 came out on Youtube... When I saw it I thought it was someone trolling and didn't comment.

Seeing it a second time was.... very dissappointing, to say the least.

What's done is done, but I wish I hadn't pre-ordered ME3 now.

[CoddyXD]

The sad thing about the end is the nothingness.

After the first I sat through the whole credits enjoying the music and super excited
After the second I was so gutted miranda died and some of my crew I had to replay the whole game to save them.
After the third I helped the misses do the dishes as the credits rolled. I spent that night thinking about what I though of it. Eventually I though I shouldnt have to be thinking about how I felt about it, it should of done what the first two did.

Thats why ppl hate it and thats why just its ok or meh was never going to be good enough.

[AntonioA9011]

Link Ashland 614 wrote...

I can undestand the dislike, but why the hate and rage? What's the point of going everywhere saying you hate it, plotholes, it sucks. What's the whole point of that?

Um....maybe because it did suck?

[George Costanza]

I'm not particularly surprised by that poll result.

People are always more keen to have their voices heard when they're upset about something than when they're content. How many people do you tell about a good deal you got at a supermarket compared to how many you'd tell if you bought a pie and it had a dead cat in it? Not many I'd wager.

But despite that, I still don't think the poll results should be ignored. I know from personal experience that of the four or five people that I know who have played this game, none of them liked the ending, as I myself did not.

It's easy to just brush complaints aside as a few noisy Internet people being whiny, but I've seen (and agree with) many very valid complaints against the endings, and so I do sympathise with a lot of the upset people (while not myself necessarily agreeing with petitions, complaints to official bodies, death threats, etc.)

[Ailith Tycane]

Akeotwawki wrote...

I buy into the Patrick Weeks version of events. It's the only one that makes sense.

"...Weekes then delved a little further into how the ending was created.

"No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through drat after draft. And honestly, it kind of shows."..."

http://www.ibtimes.c...ware-forums.htm

I figured that this is exactly what happened.

Seems like Hudson came up with the ending, and either A.) didn't ask for feedback from the team on his (****ty) ideas, B.) actually did ask for feedback, but everyone went into "yes man" mode for fear of not wanting to insult their boss. I mean seriously, even big hollywood movies do test screenings on their films, and if the feedback is negative, they WILL make changes. I don't see why Mass Effect 3 was any different, why didn't they test screen it to people not involved in the company? I bet you that alone may have saved the ending if Casey and Mac weren't struck with such hubris.

[Stonesoundjam]

Folks.

The message is pretty clear.

BioWare has too much money and is telling us in no uncertain terms that they don't need anymore superfluous dollars.

Our money is starting to annoy them so they've returned the favour by punching us in the game enjoyment crotch.

We're like the monkey who isn't learning to stop pushing the electrocution button.

[tamperous]

If they did this poll and it was conducted on a representative sample with a neutral question that didn't affect the answers, there is no way they could claim that people that hate the ending is a minority.

Given good methodology, The Margin of Error on this poll is +/- 3% nineteen times out of twenty.

I don't even care about the endings anymore. Anyone can put out something that doesn't make the cut in their job. If you say you've never done it you're either lying or so perfect that we should all praise you while we hate you behind your back. When this happens a normal person would just accept that they messed up and get back to work.

What I can't stand is the arrogance and pretensions of the senior management of BW. The vanity of these creators claiming artistic integrity while pandering to the widest possible demographics with EDI's T&A. Product Managers hiding behind anonymous twitter accounts and community managers with sunny dispositions. QA staffers (who I'm sure would rather be doing their real jobs) spending hours on these forums locking critical threads while all manner of bugs afflict the MP and SP portions of this game.

We've reached the end, the founder has already spoken and failed to defuse the situation. They have one last chance. We'll see how genuine they are in their upcoming actions not through any more talk on their part.

Modifié par tamperous, 19 avril 2012 - 12:38 .

[Hendrik.III]

Taking an ending poll before release. They must have known it would be a problem - but what did they want to achieve with it? It's not like the information didn't become apparent after a few days, anyway.

[Ultra Prism]

This is solid article ... neutral points but I like facts such as considering games as art then living up to expectations is big challenge ... and how Bioware responding that this is their Artistic Vision to take the Mass Effect Franchise ... which is suprising way to defend ... I didn't expect but now I wander what we can expect from the extended cut dlc

[GreggerG]

Probably a pretty accurate way to determine how many people disliked the ending? Track stats. They apparently are doing this based on the options. It will only capture those with it turned on and online but it would probably be a good representative sample. I for one played ME and ME2 through to the endings multiple times each (and have several aborted character playthroughs, too). I was happy with the 4 files I had ready to import to ME3, each with different people alive, decisions made, etc. After watching the ending I turned it off and haven't even thought about touching the single player game again. I can't be the only one in this situation, and doesn't that speak volumes?

[Vormaerin]

Akeotwawki wrote...

Well, finally, an end to the lie that a vocal 'minority' are unhappy with the ending(s).

If any significant number of people were actually arguing that point, you might have one of your own.

Very few, if any, people think that only a vocal minority is unhappy with the endings.   What was being rejected was the idea that an huge majority *hated* the ending.   And, especially, the idea that any self selecting, poorly structured polls were proof of anything about the numbers of anything.

Even more ludicrous is the idea that because a lot of people don't like the current endings, that means they support some particular vision of how the ending should be changed.  Or even support the idea that it should be changed at all.

Forumites, being especially active fans, tend to get into a zone where they think that the majority of the playerbase thinks or acts like they do.  For most games, less than 5% of the player base ever visits the forums.   Most don't mess with custom characters and most don't replay the game even if the ending is good.

NWN is a perfect example...  the vast majority of NWN players never downloaded any online content, yet nearly every active person on the forums did. And most played on multiplayer servers.   IIRC, for Dragon Age: Origins, the datamining showed that the majority of gamers played a human male fighter and that was it.   And so on.

Sorry, but a lot of people disliking the ending doesn't say anything at all about whether or how it should be changed.

[Creston918]

"You just don't get it. We are proud of our artistic integrity. Over 75 perfect scores!"

If Austriches could talk, this is what they'd be bleating all day.