21 réponses à ce sujet

[Dakota Strider]

Created on 2012-04-16 97 votes, 16 comments, 204 views
The current debate as to where Bioware should take Dragon Age 3, seems to be based on if they should base it from their efforts in Dragon Age 2, or revert back to their earlier work of Dragon Age Origins, or earlier games. What I am trying to determine, is WHY people may like DA2 better than DAO, or vice versa. I cannot ask all questions that may be the reason for that, so only going to poll on one particular reason. Which of these is your first Bioware RPG experience; and Which Version do you like most.


I preferred Dragon Age 2 over Dragon Age Origins, and DA2 was my first Bioware RPG experience.
0%(0 votes)

I preferred Dragon Age 2 over Dragon Age Origins, but DAO was my first Bioware RPG experience.
3%(3 votes)

I preferred Dragon Age 2 over Dragon Age origins, and my first Bioware RPG experience was an older game (examples Baldur's Gate (series) Neverwinter Nights (series)
16%(16 votes)

I preferred Dragon Age Origins over Dragon Age 2, but DA2 was my first Bioware RPG experience
1%(1 votes)

I preferred Dragon Age Origins over Dragon Age 2, and DAO was my first Bioware RPG experience.
26%(25 votes)

I preferred Dragon Age Origins over Dragon Age 2, and my first Bioware RPG experience was an older game than either of them (example Baldur's Gate (series) or Neverwinter Nights (series) )
54%(52 votes)

With almost 100 taking the poll so far, only one person played Dragon Age 2, before they played Dragon Age Origins? I guess there are a couple of assumptions that can be made about that. The people that played DA2 first, are not the types that visit forums. Or even newcomers to Bioware bought DAO (waiting for it to go on sale), before buying DA2. One could also make an assumption that people that bought DA2 as their first Bioware game, did not care enough about it to stick around to see what else Bioware has to offer, or at least not committed enough to voice their opinion about it.

I am not going to claim, that the 20% / 80% split between DA2 and DAO preference from the fans, is completely indicative of the percentage of what all Dragon Age fans feel. But, it would be hard to argue that those that wish Bioware would follow the DAO style in DA3 is a clear majority.

If Bioware/EA views these results, or other similiar statistics, they have to ask themselves which group is it more important to try to please. I am sure they would like to please both sides, but if they have to choose on key issues...they need to decide if they would lose more sales by disappointing DA2 fans, or the DAO fans. No poll is going to be able to predict that with 100% accuracy, but when the numbers appear to be this spread apart, you would hope they take notice. 

The poll is still open, hopefully posting this thread will get some more input, which usually makes the poll more reliable.  Would really like to get some input from people who played DA2 as their first Bioware experience, or at least it was their first Dragon Age experience. 

social.bioware.com/202890/polls/32329/

I am also posting here, because I would like to hear what the other players' opinions are about the results.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 17 avril 2012 - 11:41 .

[the_one_54321]

I don't really care about majorities or justifying a preference. I know exactly what kind of game I want BioWare to make. If they can't fit that mold well enough, then I won't buy DAIII just like I didn't buy DAII.

[Sutekh]

Two things:

First: I voted on that poll (6th option), but regretted that you couldn't choose "I prefer DAO over DA2, but I still happen to like DA2". Your comment here implies that preferring DAO means automatically disliking DA2, which isn't true. Tbh, that constant opposition of the two games is getting old.

Plus, asking BW to consider which fans suggestions they should listen to based on this poll is irrelevant, since the poll results can't say why people preferred one game over the other. For all you know, I could prefer DAO because I'm in love with Oghren. My having played BG would be meaningless data (and, jsyk, it is).

Second: You can't draw any meaningful conclusion from a panel of 100 persons. Really, you can't. 

[Dakota Strider]

Sutekh wrote...

Two things:

First: I voted on that poll (6th option), but regretted that you couldn't choose "I prefer DAO over DA2, but I still happen to like DA2". Your comment here implies that preferring DAO means automatically disliking DA2, which isn't true. Tbh, that constant opposition of the two games is getting old.

If you read the description of the poll, before you answer, you would see it was asking people to choose which game they would like DA3 to be patterned after.  It is assumed that if you want like DA2 better, that is the game you would want DA3 to be most like, just like if you answer you liked DAO better, you would want DA3 to be patterned after that.   I also clarified in the poll's comments, that just because you liked one game better than the other version, it did not imply you hated the other game.  It simply asked you to make a choice of which one you like BEST.

Plus, asking BW to consider which fans suggestions they should listen to based on this poll is irrelevant, since the poll results can't say why people preferred one game over the other. For all you know, I could prefer DAO because I'm in love with Oghren. My having played BG would be meaningless data (and, jsyk, it is).

As I stated in the poll's description, it is impossible in one player poll to ask all the questions needed to make a comprehensive questionairre that would cover all aspects to compare the two games.  This particular poll was an attempt to learn one specific demographic information.  That is:  Of those that played DA2, what was their previous Bioware RPG experience, and of course, did they like DA2.    I was rather surprised we have hardly anyone answer that DA2 was their first Bioware game.    But with the poll mechanics available, it is impossible to find out every reason why every person had a preference for one game over another.  Nor was it necessary for the purpose of the poll.  There are plenty of forum threads answering those questions, but I saw very little content in the forums to answer the question I had about pre-DA2 experience.  And since I wanted to see if a trend would develop that might indicate that made a difference in which people liked DA2 over DAO and vice versa, that is the poll I made.

Second: You can't draw any meaningful conclusion from a panel of 100 persons. Really, you can't. 

As I said the poll is stll open, and this thread was a method to gain more participation.  Without soliciting comments about what people think, it would become a very meaningless thread, which means it would drop out of sight, and which means fewer people would see the poll to participate.   And noone is claiming this is a scientific poll with 100% concrete results.  If you have read my statements, you would know that.  However, I have monitored the poll fairly regularly since it was started.  And the numbers for the 4 main answers, have grown at a consistant rate, compared to each other.  So, it would take an aberration of a sudden increase of those that prefer DA2 over DAO for there to be any change in the outcome, which right now is a very substantial lead.

You are welcome to make your own poll, and ask the questions the way you would like.   And after you do it, it would be great to see how people react to it.

[Realmzmaster]

The problem with any poll on the forum is that it can only reach the people who choose to engage in the forum which at best represents a small portion of the gamers who bought either DAO or DA2 or both. So the results can be skewed one way of the other depending on who decided to come to the forum. Most gamers come to the forum if they are upset about something that happened. Some do come to the forum to express their satisfaction with a product, but at a lesser occurrance than those who are upset.

The results would have no refection on the actual buying audience of either game. One would be hard press to extrapolate the results with any significance or meaning.
Even going by your results, Bioware would upset 22% of their audience if DA3 was more like DAO and 78% if DA3 is more like DA2.
So what is the purpose behind the poll that Bioware should heed the wishes of the 78% and ignore the other 22%?

[seraphymon]

not exactly. As really you have to judge by each thing in the game seperatley, not just basing on the whole. Personally though i think this poll is generous on DA2, because its on this forum.

[Realmzmaster]

seraphymon wrote...

not exactly. As really you have to judge by each thing in the game seperatley, not just basing on the whole. Personally though i think this poll is generous on DA2, because its on this forum.

Or favorable to DAO because it is on this forum. The only knowledge that can be obtained  from this poll may be a general notion of what forum members who choose to engage in the discussion want. The poll  may or may not reflect the general DA audience. IMHO.

[Sutekh]

Dakota Strider wrote...

If you read the description of the poll, before you answer, you would see it was asking people to choose which game they would like DA3 to be patterned after.  
<snip>

I voted yesterday, before that comment was up. The questions are DAO vs DA2. If the poll is about which game to take inspiration from, then the missing question would be "A mix of the two". Since you're limited in the number of questions, you can't have all those combinations and it becomes confusing, if not misleading.

But my problem isn't really with the poll itself (or I wouldn't have voted), but your comment here, in this thread. You seem to be jumping to conclusions, which is a way to turn opinions into facts - or brand them with the sacred Majority-Approved Stamp - which I find a bit premature, if anything else. Especially this:

If Bioware/EA views these results, or other similiar statistics, they have to ask themselves which group is it more important to try to please. I am sure they would like to please both sides, but if they have to choose on key issues...they need to decide if they would lose more sales by disappointing DA2 fans, or the DAO fans. 

Frankly, if Bioware based their decisions on a forum poll, I'd be really worried about their mental health. I'd rather see Bioware do their thing and stand by their decisions than surrendering to a vocal majority (which I'm part of, sometimes). It's good they listen to us, as they did for the companion armors thing; taking feedback into account is always a good thing. But there's a difference between "taking into account" and "yielding to the majority", because ultimately, their game, their decisions. The making of DA3 isn't a democracy.

You are welcome to make your own poll, and ask the questions the way you would like.   And after you do it, it would be great to see how people react to it.

Maker, no. I really don't think this forum is a representatitve panel of the average customer, to start with, and I'm more interested in knowing and understanding why people want this or that, possibly in details.

[seraphymon]

Realmzmaster wrote...

seraphymon wrote...

not exactly. As really you have to judge by each thing in the game seperatley, not just basing on the whole. Personally though i think this poll is generous on DA2, because its on this forum.

Or favorable to DAO because it is on this forum. The only knowledge that can be obtained  from this poll may be a general notion of what forum members who choose to engage in the discussion want. The poll  may or may not reflect the general DA audience. IMHO.

No, i dont think its more in favor DAO because on this forums, i think tis average, since everywhere else ive been on, its more one side to a 90/10 for DAO.. Really i think polls tell more than what people like to think. This one though like i said doesnt really give the information as its too broad.

[PsychoBlonde]

 There's no way I can vote given these options.  I liked DA2 and Origins pretty much *equally*.  (Liked different things about each.)  I'm *not* interested in playing "Origins with a different plot" or "DA2 with a different plot", and, frankly, if they imported either system wholesale to a new game it'd be such a snore to play through that I'd probably just rather watch somebody else play it on YouTube so I can fast forward through all the combat.

Frankly, I think everyone who extravagantly praises Origins is wearing some serious rose-tinted goggles.  Was DA2 buggy when it came out, with a few quests that didn't work?  Yeah.  So what?  Origins was too.  Anyone remember those bugs where you couldn't do Leliana's personal quest if you got too much influence with her before you had certain conversations with her?  Anyone remember the Ancient Elven Boots, which DID NOT EXIST in the PC version?  Or how about the basically permanent invulnerability granted by the Arcane Warrior shield effect because it didn't turn off when you hit 0 mana?  Those were all BUGS.  The Boots thing was NEVER FIXED in any patch or update--I wound up downloading a mod someone created so I could have a look at them.

Origins had its fair share of flaws, but overall it was a good game, a fun experience with memorable characters.  DA2 was the same way.

I want them to learn from both games and keep going forward.  I'd like the gameplay systems to have more depth and be more interesting and engaging, so I don't wind up turning the difficulty all the way down to casual 2/3 of the way through the game just so I don't have to pay attention to the boring-ass combat any more.  This is a problem I had with BOTH games.  I had the same problem with KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Neverwinter Nights, and both Baldur's Gate games, too.

I'd like the story and gameplay to not be in separate boxes.  Origins had this problem as much as DA2.  I'd like the companion influence system to be implemented differently from the way it was done in BOTH games.

Neither game will serve as a "model" to fix the problems I had with BOTH games.  (Nor are some of my personal peeves issues that necessarily ought to be "fixed".)  I want them to take what they learned and make a new game that is different enough to be interesting and continues the story.

[Realmzmaster]

seraphymon wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

seraphymon wrote...

not exactly. As really you have to judge by each thing in the game seperatley, not just basing on the whole. Personally though i think this poll is generous on DA2, because its on this forum.

Or favorable to DAO because it is on this forum. The only knowledge that can be obtained  from this poll may be a general notion of what forum members who choose to engage in the discussion want. The poll  may or may not reflect the general DA audience. IMHO.

No, i dont think its more in favor DAO because on this forums, i think tis average, since everywhere else ive been on, its more one side to a 90/10 for DAO.. Really i think polls tell more than what people like to think. This one though like i said doesnt really give the information as its too broad.

Then we must go to different places because where I go it is more like 50/50 but YMMV.

[Realmzmaster]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Snip

I agree with what you said. I am not looking for another DA2 or DAO. I want Bioware to go foward and make a better game taking cues from both DA2 and DAO. I am not looking for more of the same. I like DAO and I like DA2, but both games had flaws. Those flaws become even more apparent on repeated playthroughs. I want Bioware to make a most excellent DA3.

[Dakota Strider]

For me, I want the story in DA3 to be epic, with lots of choices, and different roleplay paths that can be taken. If I had my druthers, it would be on a game engine that most closely resembled the DAO game, AFTER most of the bugs were fixed.

I guess I like consistancy. If Bioware could settle on one set of rules, and then start telling new stories, instead of trying to be innovative in new fight styles or cinema "oohs and ahhs", it would be nice. Not that change is unwanted, but does it have to be a completely new engine, each game?

Back in my tabletop, AD&D days, we played many different games, many different characters, and the rules were almost always the same. What changed (besides new characters) was often the setting, and more importantly, the story line. If it was a good story, it never felt old, even though we were basically playing with the same set of rules that had been around for at least a decade at that time.

For me DA2 was not a horrible story, except there were so little choices available, it made the 2nd playthrough pretty boring, even though I was using a different character class. I have tried playing through a third time, and even bought the Legacy and MotA to try to keep my interest, but it is just too boring, since I know exactly what is going to happen in almost every situation. DAO, on the otherhand, had far more content, and even if you don't count the origins, had far more choices you could make throughout the game. With the origins, at least every new game felt new. There were a lot of reasons I prefer DAO of the two games, but I still like DA2, just not enough to want it to be the model to build the next in the series.

[Huntress]

I liked both games very much, different reason to like them both, one was about companions the other was about the "champion" , DA has very memorable characters each of us has one close to our hearts, mine is Alistair from DAO.. he is a very sweet character, in da2 I liked hawke alot more.

now about:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"With almost 100 taking the poll so far, only one person played Dragon Age 2, before they played Dragon Age Origins? I guess there are a couple of assumptions that can be made about that. The people that played DA2 first, are not the types that visit forums. Or even newcomers to Bioware bought DAO (waiting for it to go on sale), before buying DA2. One could also make an assumption that people that bought DA2 as their first Bioware game, did not care enough about it to stick around to see what else Bioware has to offer, or at least not committed enough to voice their opinion about it."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tell you that is wrong, many players new and old came to the forum to express their opinion about the game and what did they get? alot of cancer comments, follow up anyone who liked da2 has A.D.D... let me think..what also was in the forum... oh! alot of : fire so and so or you'll never see  my $60 dollards again. you can add any other ridiculous comment, trust me we already have seen it before right here.

Yes this forums were so full of **** that many left scared.. don't be so surprised of people fearing for thing they have no control what so ever, many players in here are scared/fears/dispaires of how da3 will turn out.. and Bioware probably hasn't even started writing down in a piece of paper.

Modifié par Huntress, 18 avril 2012 - 05:05 .

[seraphymon]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

 There's no way I can vote given these options.  I liked DA2 and Origins pretty much *equally*.  (Liked different things about each.)  I'm *not* interested in playing "Origins with a different plot" or "DA2 with a different plot", and, frankly, if they imported either system wholesale to a new game it'd be such a snore to play through that I'd probably just rather watch somebody else play it on YouTube so I can fast forward through all the combat.

Frankly, I think everyone who extravagantly praises Origins is wearing some serious rose-tinted goggles.  Was DA2 buggy when it came out, with a few quests that didn't work?  Yeah.  So what?  Origins was too.  Anyone remember those bugs where you couldn't do Leliana's personal quest if you got too much influence with her before you had certain conversations with her?  Anyone remember the Ancient Elven Boots, which DID NOT EXIST in the PC version?  Or how about the basically permanent invulnerability granted by the Arcane Warrior shield effect because it didn't turn off when you hit 0 mana?  Those were all BUGS.  The Boots thing was NEVER FIXED in any patch or update--I wound up downloading a mod someone created so I could have a look at them.

Origins had its fair share of flaws, but overall it was a good game, a fun experience with memorable characters.  DA2 was the same way.

I want them to learn from both games and keep going forward.  I'd like the gameplay systems to have more depth and be more interesting and engaging, so I don't wind up turning the difficulty all the way down to casual 2/3 of the way through the game just so I don't have to pay attention to the boring-ass combat any more.  This is a problem I had with BOTH games.  I had the same problem with KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Neverwinter Nights, and both Baldur's Gate games, too.

I'd like the story and gameplay to not be in separate boxes.  Origins had this problem as much as DA2.  I'd like the companion influence system to be implemented differently from the way it was done in BOTH games.

Neither game will serve as a "model" to fix the problems I had with BOTH games.  (Nor are some of my personal peeves issues that necessarily ought to be "fixed".)  I want them to take what they learned and make a new game that is different enough to be interesting and continues the story.

it isnt about rose colored glasses. Id argue that DA2 buggy stuff was much more apparent and game ruining than any in DAO, but thats beside the point, as that is the least of DA2 concerns. To me they are much more apparent because the rest of the game isnt that good, so it makes everything stand out more obviously and less forgiable. Where as the flaws in origins, to me wernt so bad, as everything else makes me forget about them or more forgivable.

[valentine3]

Dakota Strider wrote...

Created on 2012-04-16 97 votes, 16 comments, 204 views
The current debate as to where Bioware should take Dragon Age 3, seems to be based on if they should base it from their efforts in Dragon Age 2, or revert back to their earlier work of Dragon Age Origins, or earlier games. What I am trying to determine, is WHY people may like DA2 better than DAO, or vice versa. I cannot ask all questions that may be the reason for that, so only going to poll on one particular reason. Which of these is your first Bioware RPG experience; and Which Version do you like most.


I preferred Dragon Age 2 over Dragon Age Origins, and DA2 was my first Bioware RPG experience.
0%(0 votes)

I preferred Dragon Age 2 over Dragon Age Origins, but DAO was my first Bioware RPG experience.
3%(3 votes)

I preferred Dragon Age 2 over Dragon Age origins, and my first Bioware RPG experience was an older game (examples Baldur's Gate (series) Neverwinter Nights (series)
16%(16 votes)

I preferred Dragon Age Origins over Dragon Age 2, but DA2 was my first Bioware RPG experience
1%(1 votes)

I preferred Dragon Age Origins over Dragon Age 2, and DAO was my first Bioware RPG experience.
26%(25 votes)

I preferred Dragon Age Origins over Dragon Age 2, and my first Bioware RPG experience was an older game than either of them (example Baldur's Gate (series) or Neverwinter Nights (series) )
54%(52 votes)

With almost 100 taking the poll so far, only one person played Dragon Age 2, before they played Dragon Age Origins? I guess there are a couple of assumptions that can be made about that. The people that played DA2 first, are not the types that visit forums. Or even newcomers to Bioware bought DAO (waiting for it to go on sale), before buying DA2. One could also make an assumption that people that bought DA2 as their first Bioware game, did not care enough about it to stick around to see what else Bioware has to offer, or at least not committed enough to voice their opinion about it.

I am not going to claim, that the 20% / 80% split between DA2 and DAO preference from the fans, is completely indicative of the percentage of what all Dragon Age fans feel. But, it would be hard to argue that those that wish Bioware would follow the DAO style in DA3 is a clear majority.

If Bioware/EA views these results, or other similiar statistics, they have to ask themselves which group is it more important to try to please. I am sure they would like to please both sides, but if they have to choose on key issues...they need to decide if they would lose more sales by disappointing DA2 fans, or the DAO fans. No poll is going to be able to predict that with 100% accuracy, but when the numbers appear to be this spread apart, you would hope they take notice. 

The poll is still open, hopefully posting this thread will get some more input, which usually makes the poll more reliable.  Would really like to get some input from people who played DA2 as their first Bioware experience, or at least it was their first Dragon Age experience. 

social.bioware.com/202890/polls/32329/

I am also posting here, because I would like to hear what the other players' opinions are about the results.

 

Hey ,I'm the person that bought dragon age 2 first and then dao (and voted on the poll).Just so you know I've been on this forum awhile and have given my opions alot.

[AkiKishi]

Only one person played DA2 as their first game. That was some effective marketing there.

[valentine3]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Only one person played DA2 as their first game. That was some effective marketing there.

I was bored,saw a dragon on the cover and thought aarrhh why not?