561 réponses à ce sujet

[Clayless]

Master Che wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

What you're saying is "Despite everything else he said being true, I believe that this part here was a lie". And I'm saying that's fine, but this is the wrong thread, as it's for the people that said "Despite everything else he said being true, he was lying about this part because I saw a synthetic survive the destroy all synthetics ending."

Literally you are going to achieve nothing by speculating here, as this thread is for proof. Lack of proof of her surviving the destroy all synthetics ending is not proof of her surviving.

I never said I believe anything he said.  So your quotation is not accurate.

Lack of proof of her surviving in the destroy all synthetics ending is not proof of her dying.

I never said you believed the rest of it, I said everything else he said was true, which is not the same thing.

[Necrotron]

Frankly, if EDI does survive the Destroy ending, it just makes the ending all that much more confusing.

So...we're not supposed to believe anything the catalyst says and we're just supposed to pick a random button and hope for the best?

[NM_Che56]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

What you're saying is "Despite everything else he said being true, I believe that this part here was a lie". And I'm saying that's fine, but this is the wrong thread, as it's for the people that said "Despite everything else he said being true, he was lying about this part because I saw a synthetic survive the destroy all synthetics ending."

Literally you are going to achieve nothing by speculating here, as this thread is for proof. Lack of proof of her surviving the destroy all synthetics ending is not proof of her surviving.

I never said I believe anything he said.  So your quotation is not accurate.

Lack of proof of her surviving in the destroy all synthetics ending is not proof of her dying.

I never said you believed the rest of it, I said everything else he said was true, which is not the same thing.

See the bold.  I accept your clarification though. 

Also, I do not take anything he says at face value. I see nothing but euphemisms and half truths in his description of what the other two options will produce.

To me, he represents the Mephistopheles archetype.

[NM_Che56]

Bathaius wrote...

Frankly, if EDI does survive the Destroy ending, it just makes the ending all that much more confusing.

So...we're not supposed to believe anything the catalyst says and we're just supposed to pick a random button and hope for the best?

My thoughts:

You're supposed to stick to your guns and do what you set out to do and not let the little $h*+ confuse you.

[Necrotron]

Master Che wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Frankly, if EDI does survive the Destroy ending, it just makes the ending all that much more confusing.

So...we're not supposed to believe anything the catalyst says and we're just supposed to pick a random button and hope for the best?

My thoughts:

You're supposed to stick to your guns and do what you set out to do and not let the little $h*+ confuse you.

I suppose that makes sense.  Obviously, he is the enemy, assuming I don't believe the catalyst is truthful when he says picking Destroy will cause mass genocide against my Geth friends.

But anyways, I think I might be derailing from the thread topic a bit.  Apologies.

[NM_Che56]

Bathaius wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

Frankly, if EDI does survive the Destroy ending, it just makes the ending all that much more confusing.

So...we're not supposed to believe anything the catalyst says and we're just supposed to pick a random button and hope for the best?

My thoughts:

You're supposed to stick to your guns and do what you set out to do and not let the little $h*+ confuse you.

I suppose that makes sense.  Obviously, he is the enemy, assuming I don't believe the catalyst is truthful when he says picking Destroy will cause mass genocide against my Geth friends.

But anyways, I think I might be derailing from the thread topic a bit.  Apologies.

Derailing is welcomed. 

I'm curious though.  What does he say to deter you from "Destroy" if you let the Geth die...?  Does he just figure, "damn, shep doesn't give a damn...this is going to be tough'.

[Clayless]

Master Che wrote...
See the bold.  I accept your clarification though. 

Also, I do not take anything he says at face value. I see nothing but euphemisms and half truths in his description of what the other two options will produce.

To me, he represents the Mephistopheles archetype.

This is your problem, I stated a fact "despite everything else he said being true" and you replied that you never stated you believed that. What you believe is irrelevant, which is why I never stated what you believed.

This thread isn't for speculations or what you believe, it's for what is true. I cannot stress this enough, it doesn't matter if you believe that the Catalyst is lying about all synthetics dying, because that's not what this thread is about.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 03 mai 2012 - 07:01 .

[NM_Che56]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Master Che wrote...
See the bold.  I accept your clarification though. 

Also, I do not take anything he says at face value. I see nothing but euphemisms and half truths in his description of what the other two options will produce.

To me, he represents the Mephistopheles archetype.

This is your problem, I stated a fact "despite everything else he said being true" and you replied that you never stated you believed that. What you believe is irrelavant, which is why I never stated what you believed.

This thread isn't for speculations or what you believe, it's for what is true. I cannot stress this enough, it doesn't matter if you believe that the Catalyst is lying about all synthetics dying, because that's not what this thread is about.

You have no proof that EDI dies.  Ergo, you are speculating. 

[Parabolee77]

OK so the people that exit the Normandy should be your LI and the squad member you took with you the most (or at least that is who it seems to be).

So all we need to confirm/disprove this for sure is to find someone who used EDI as a squad member for most of the game. That person can either record the ending themselves OR better still, send me their save game file (if on 360) and I'll video capture the ending showing EDI exiting the Normandy on Destroy OR exiting on Control (since she always does on synth) to show she should be one of those that exit and then show her not doing so with Control.

So WHO here used EDI as a squad mate for most of the game?

[NM_Che56]

Parabolee77 wrote...

OK so the people that exit the Normandy should be your LI and the squad member you took with you the most (or at least that is who it seems to be).

So all we need to confirm/disprove this for sure is to find someone who used EDI as a squad member for most of the game. That person can either record the ending themselves OR better still, send me their save game file (if on 360) and I'll video capture the ending showing EDI exiting the Normandy on Destroy OR exiting on Control (since she always does on synth) to show she should be one of those that exit and then show her not doing so with Control.

So WHO here used EDI as a squad mate for most of the game?

They could have just over wrote (?) that logic for EDI for great speculation!

[PsyrenY]

Master Che wrote...

I think of law.  I assert a crime happened.  I have to prove it.

The source of the claim ("all synthetics die") is authoritative - an AI that knows what the Crucible will do. To claim otherwise, you must discredit his authority.

[NM_Che56]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Master Che wrote...

I think of law.  I assert a crime happened.  I have to prove it.

The source of the claim ("all synthetics die") is authoritative - an AI that knows what the Crucible will do. To claim otherwise, you must discredit his authority.

I don't recognize it's authority and believe it has an ulterior motive.

[Clayless]

Master Che wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...


This is your problem, I stated a fact "despite everything else he said being true" and you replied that you never stated you believed that. What you believe is irrelavant, which is why I never stated what you believed.

This thread isn't for speculations or what you believe, it's for what is true. I cannot stress this enough, it doesn't matter if you believe that the Catalyst is lying about all synthetics dying, because that's not what this thread is about.

You have no proof that EDI dies.  Ergo, you are speculating. 

Everything he said came true, we didn't see this one thing happen but there is evidence it did and no evidence it didn't, therefore it happened.

You can say "I disagree" but I really, really, really can't stress this enough; That's not what this thread is about.

It's about the people that said, point blank, she survives because she walks out the Normandy presenting proof of this, until then, yes, she dies. Me making a claim that Doctor Chakwas walked out of the Normandy in my Synthesis ending, and she wasn't the same as Joker, and then claiming that anyone that disagrees with me is "just speculating" isn't going to achieve anything.

[NM_Che56]

Since when is prediction proof that something actually happened?

[NM_Che56]

"Everything he said came true, we didn't see this one thing happen but there is evidence it did and no evidence it didn't, therefore it happened" = speculation.

Show me evidence EDI DIES. And you cannot prove a negative. That's science.

[Clayless]

Master Che wrote...

Since when is prediction proof that something actually happened?

Have you not realised you're constantly coming across a brick wall? Have you not noticed that claiming "I believe EDI survives" is not the same as "EDI survives"?

Yes, I am making the claim that she dies, 100%, it is intentionally (bold? understated? What do you call stating a synthetic dies in the destroy all synthetics ending?) and I'm asking you to disprove me.

This thread has pointed out there is proof of her not surviving, and no proof of her survivng, and then I'm stating "Therefore she dies, prove me wrong".

Now you have 2 options here: Proving me wrong or admiting that you have no proof but you still think she survives. As much as you don't like it, if you can't prove a claim, the other side can dismiss it. You can say "I think the Catalyst is a liar because I believe that EDI survives despite having no evidence to back this up" but you cannot state "The Catalyst is a liar because EDI survives".

[NM_Che56]

I don't see proof that she dies. I see no sceen shots or tweets from Mac or Casey saying she died. I just see speculation based on hearsay.
Hearsay is not proof.

[NM_Che56]

No screen shot of a lifeless EDI = speculation.

[Mcfly616]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

What you're saying is "Despite everything else he said being true, I believe that this part here was a lie". And I'm saying that's fine, but this is the wrong thread, as it's for the people that said "Despite everything else he said being true, he was lying about this part because I saw a synthetic survive the destroy all synthetics ending."

Literally you are going to achieve nothing by speculating here, as this thread is for proof. Lack of proof of her surviving the destroy all synthetics ending is not proof of her surviving.

I never said I believe anything he said.  So your quotation is not accurate.

Lack of proof of her surviving in the destroy all synthetics ending is not proof of her dying.

I never said you believed the rest of it, I said everything else he said was true, which is not the same thing.

I'm pretty sure he implies that Shep will die because of his implants....

Then we get the breathe scene(and yes Shepard Lives as stated on page 323 of the strategy guide)

Pretty solid evidence right there that Star Jar was not completely truthful, or hes ignorant and isn't really "all-knowing"

We have nothing that points to him being 100% truthful however....but that's due to the ridiculously vague ending that have no place as the finale of any trilogy....yay

[NM_Che56]

Hello McFly!

Lol

I agree

[Parabolee77]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Now you have 2 options here: Proving me wrong or admiting that you have no proof but you still think she survives. As much as you don't like it, if you can't prove a claim, the other side can dismiss it. You can say "I think the Catalyst is a liar because I believe that EDI survives despite having no evidence to back this up" but you cannot state "The Catalyst is a liar because EDI survives".

We can however state that "The Catalyst is quite likely a liar and/or wrong as it claims Shepard will die, and Shepard does not die", can't we?

Based on that we can also say "Because the Catalyst is know to be a liar and/or wrong, we have no reason to trust it when it claims the Geth and EDI die." Can we not?

Both sides of this argument cannot claim truth without evidence. The only evidence we can POSSIBLY provide at this point is video of EDI stepping off the Normandy after the Destroy ending. Or to counter a video showing someones save that has EDI step off with the Control ending (therfore being a main squad choice) BUT not if Destroy is chosen, but even that is not proof like her stepping off is.

Fact is I have not seen this, BUT I have seen numerous people claim to have chosen Destroy and EDI live. I am inclined to believe it is possible. However until we see evidence we should be skeptical.

[wombat_stalker]

Brought EDI on every single groundside mission through an entire playthrough. Talked to her multiple times after every mission ended. Never picked up Prothy or VS, had no LI. Picked Destroy. Reloaded the end 5 times.

No EDI.

[Wulfram]

wombat_stalker wrote...

Brought EDI on every single groundside mission through an entire playthrough. Talked to her multiple times after every mission ended. Never picked up Prothy or VS, had no LI. Picked Destroy. Reloaded the end 5 times.

No EDI.

If you pick Control with the same character, does EDI show up?

[NM_Che56]

wombat_stalker wrote...

Brought EDI on every single groundside mission through an entire playthrough. Talked to her multiple times after every mission ended. Never picked up Prothy or VS, had no LI. Picked Destroy. Reloaded the end 5 times.

No EDI.

Dont read into it.  You don't see  a lot of people.

[PsyrenY]

Master Che wrote...

I don't recognize it's authority and believe it has an ulterior motive.

What you choose to recognize is unfortunately irrelevant. Everything that is shown in the epilogues happens as he said it would, so I see no reason to assume they will make the parts that were not shown be contradictory.