155 réponses à ce sujet

[JBONE27]

Embrosil wrote...

Shermos wrote...

Frailstrength wrote...

jreezy wrote...

ebevan91 wrote...

I don't mind the outcome. I just want those holes filled to make it easier to understand.

This is what BioWare thinks the problem is which is why the ending DLC is only clarification. Sometimes things are just downright stupid. Clarification won't fix all the faults of the ending.

Just need a little imagination.

Sadly, this is a quality most people who hate the endings seem to lack.

So next time, I can save 1100 CZK and imagine the whole game in my head for free! Yeah, great idea. Or I do not have to go to cinema, I can imagine whole movies!

Actually, that would save a lot of money.  I mean if you didn't play, read, or watch anything instead, just used your imagination.

[JBONE27]

wastelander75 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

-Why did joker run?
-Why did he make a relay jump?
-Why wasn't he killed when he snapped back to sublight veolcity?
-Why were my dead crew members on the Normandy?
-How would joker manage to find a planet mid-jump?
-How would the crew of the normandy repopulate?
-How are dextro aliens going to survive?
-Vice-Versa how are non-dextro species going to survive?
-Is the food even safe to eat?

Don't forget this massive coalition of alien warships hovering over a war torn earth leaving some to wonder how they're going to get home. And how did Anderson beat you up to the Control room when he said "I'm right behind you." Oh and how Mr. Reaper StarGodKid's (that's what I Call him) circular logic can possibly make any sense. Or how........you know what yeah I better just stop there. I could list ten more things that just don't add up but I'll stop.

I've got a few others,
How did TIM make it onto the Citidel?
How did the explosion not take out every system with a mass realy?
How did Shepard survive the fall from the Citidel?

[ZackG312]

jreezy wrote...

wastelander75 wrote...
And how did Anderson beat you up to the Control room when he said "I'm right behind you." 

He did say he didn't end up in the same place. Of course that still doesn't make it any more logical. The destination seems to be randomized if that is the case.

there appears to be one way into the room

[ZackG312]

JBONE27 wrote...

wastelander75 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

-Why did joker run?
-Why did he make a relay jump?
-Why wasn't he killed when he snapped back to sublight veolcity?
-Why were my dead crew members on the Normandy?
-How would joker manage to find a planet mid-jump?
-How would the crew of the normandy repopulate?
-How are dextro aliens going to survive?
-Vice-Versa how are non-dextro species going to survive?
-Is the food even safe to eat?

Don't forget this massive coalition of alien warships hovering over a war torn earth leaving some to wonder how they're going to get home. And how did Anderson beat you up to the Control room when he said "I'm right behind you." Oh and how Mr. Reaper StarGodKid's (that's what I Call him) circular logic can possibly make any sense. Or how........you know what yeah I better just stop there. I could list ten more things that just don't add up but I'll stop.

I've got a few others,
How did TIM make it onto the Citidel?
How did the explosion not take out every system with a mass realy?
How did Shepard survive the fall from the Citidel?

OP cant think that far

[Shermos]

JBONE27 wrote...

Shermos wrote...

Ok guys. Stop getting so butthurt. I'll clarify what I mean by "lack of imagination".

Most people I see here complain about "plot holes". Not everybody wants every single detail explained for them. There are fans which actually enjoy having certain things deliberately left to their imagination or to be expanded on in a future story. ME3 resolves the Reaper threat and Shepard's story and conflicts which came up in last two games. Pretty much all the plain plot lines in the previous games are resolved. In doing so however, it opens up new questions. Good stories do this. They leave the player/reader/viewer to imagination what might happen next and look forward to new stories in the same universe.

The only real plot hole is how the crew on Earth managed to get back aboard the Normandy in the middle of a battle. Everything else haters are calling plot holes is due to a lack of imagination on their part. It's a sad thing, but it's their problem, not the game's.

Then there's this "the ending came from left field" rubbish. I can't believe how many people actually believe this. The main theme of the ending and meeting the Catalyst is the breaking of a repeating cycle and what the consequences of doing this might be. This theme was delivered to the player with the subtlety of a sledge hammer almost from the start of the game, curing the genophage. The fear introduced in ME1 was that without it, the Krogan would rebel again and force the rest of the galaxy to find a new way to deal with them. In ME3, Shep has the choice to give in to this fear or trust the Krogan to evolve beyond constant violence. The theme comes up again with the Geth/Quarian conflict. The player can give into the fear that the Geth will become violent (even though they never initiated violence with the exception of the heretics - a small minority), or can trust the Geth (and Quarians) to give peaceful co-existence as equals a try. Taking the latter option in both situations breaks a continuing cycle of violence, much like the cycle of violence the Catalyst orchestrates, and the ultimate consequences are unknown. They are meant to be.

Just to make sure the player has this theme in their mind, the Prothean VI talks about how his people came to the conclusion that a repeating cycle is taking place and the same themes repeat in more or less the same way, [b]with an unknown force controlling it[/i].

If people couldn't see how the game builds up to the ending rather than coming out of nowhere, they either rushed through the game or lack the ability to put 2 and 2 together. I honestly feel the writers over-estimated the intelligence of the average fan. It takes a little bit of out of the box thinking to get, but it shouldn't have been a big shock.

Oh and of course, I can't forget the people who complain the ending rips off other Sci-fi. Wake up! lol, The series has been doing that since the first game. It's obvious Bioware meant the series to be a tribute to great and popular works of sci-fi. There are in your face tributes like the scientist on Noveria called Amisov, to the less obvious tributes like the Geth/Quarian conflict being an analogue for the Battlestar Galactica universe. The Krogan obviously have some influence from the Klingons. Need I go on?

There are legitimate reasons for disliking the ending, like wanting a Hollywood style happy ending instead of what we got, which I think was still pretty bright if you really think about it (and listen to what the writers actually intended you to get out of it). Everything else is pure bull****. Disliking it just comes down to your personal taste and it doesn't give you the right to demand a "better" ending.

So, you like the fact that absoluetly nothing we did during the previous two games mattered?  

You like the fact that the catalyst was a little kid for whom most people feel nothing?  

You like the fact that we couldn't question the kid?  

You like the fact that the kid's reasoning is counterintuitive?

 You like the fact that all of the endings looked the same?  

You like the fact that in the lead up to the game Casey Hudson said that the ending wouldn't come down to an A, B, C, choice even though that's exactly what it came down to?  

You like the fact that the allies we gathered over the course of the game were reduced to a number?  

You like the fact that the conduit lied to us both overtly "All synthetics will die, the reapers, the geth, EDI, even you have synthetic parts,"  yet, both Shepard and EDI can be shown surviving the destruction, or implicitly, such as only mentioning that the mass relays explode if you chose destruction eventhough they explode reguardless of what you chose?

You like the fact that a game built on choice and cosequences, in the end gives you little choice and shows you no consequences?

You like the fact that reguardless of what you choose, everyone you brought is stranded in the Sol System for however long it takes to travel to another system?

You like the fact that there was no end fight, even if the fight was with words?

You like the fact that they complely changed genres in the last five minutes?

You like the fact that the end protagonist was the kid instead of Shepard?

You like the fact that, since at least some of your squadmates are on the Normandy on that planet, and you're stuck on Earth, that they didn't even look for your body, even though, if it is your LI (especially Liara) it is completely out of character?

You like the fact that Shepard is completely out of character as (s)he is talking to the kid... well for most people anyway?

You like the fact that we don't know what happened to any of the races?

You like the fact that the grandfather telling a story comes from completely out of nowhere?

You like the fact that it ends with an advertisement for upcomming DLC?

You like all of that?

I like the fact that you worked so hard to put a negative spin on everything you can without trying to see it a different way. It almost takes some imagination.

One thing which does deserve a response to though is the "star child". Has anyone stopped to think it's just the catalyst trying to intimidate Shepard by showing it can read his thoughts? It's just the form this very advanced being chooses to represent itself as.

[Grimgaww]

Shermos wrote...

I like the fact that you worked so hard to put a negative spin on everything you can without trying to see it a different way. It almost takes some imagination.

One thing which does deserve a response to though is the "star child". Has anyone stopped to think it's just the catalyst trying to intimidate Shepard by showing it can read his thoughts? It's just the form this very advanced being chooses to represent itself as.

So you're making the whole "kid" scene more stupid as it already is ????

[JBONE27]

Shermos wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

Shermos wrote...

Ok guys. Stop getting so butthurt. I'll clarify what I mean by "lack of imagination".

Most people I see here complain about "plot holes". Not everybody wants every single detail explained for them. There are fans which actually enjoy having certain things deliberately left to their imagination or to be expanded on in a future story. ME3 resolves the Reaper threat and Shepard's story and conflicts which came up in last two games. Pretty much all the plain plot lines in the previous games are resolved. In doing so however, it opens up new questions. Good stories do this. They leave the player/reader/viewer to imagination what might happen next and look forward to new stories in the same universe.

The only real plot hole is how the crew on Earth managed to get back aboard the Normandy in the middle of a battle. Everything else haters are calling plot holes is due to a lack of imagination on their part. It's a sad thing, but it's their problem, not the game's.

Then there's this "the ending came from left field" rubbish. I can't believe how many people actually believe this. The main theme of the ending and meeting the Catalyst is the breaking of a repeating cycle and what the consequences of doing this might be. This theme was delivered to the player with the subtlety of a sledge hammer almost from the start of the game, curing the genophage. The fear introduced in ME1 was that without it, the Krogan would rebel again and force the rest of the galaxy to find a new way to deal with them. In ME3, Shep has the choice to give in to this fear or trust the Krogan to evolve beyond constant violence. The theme comes up again with the Geth/Quarian conflict. The player can give into the fear that the Geth will become violent (even though they never initiated violence with the exception of the heretics - a small minority), or can trust the Geth (and Quarians) to give peaceful co-existence as equals a try. Taking the latter option in both situations breaks a continuing cycle of violence, much like the cycle of violence the Catalyst orchestrates, and the ultimate consequences are unknown. They are meant to be.

Just to make sure the player has this theme in their mind, the Prothean VI talks about how his people came to the conclusion that a repeating cycle is taking place and the same themes repeat in more or less the same way, [b]with an unknown force controlling it[/i].

If people couldn't see how the game builds up to the ending rather than coming out of nowhere, they either rushed through the game or lack the ability to put 2 and 2 together. I honestly feel the writers over-estimated the intelligence of the average fan. It takes a little bit of out of the box thinking to get, but it shouldn't have been a big shock.

Oh and of course, I can't forget the people who complain the ending rips off other Sci-fi. Wake up! lol, The series has been doing that since the first game. It's obvious Bioware meant the series to be a tribute to great and popular works of sci-fi. There are in your face tributes like the scientist on Noveria called Amisov, to the less obvious tributes like the Geth/Quarian conflict being an analogue for the Battlestar Galactica universe. The Krogan obviously have some influence from the Klingons. Need I go on?

There are legitimate reasons for disliking the ending, like wanting a Hollywood style happy ending instead of what we got, which I think was still pretty bright if you really think about it (and listen to what the writers actually intended you to get out of it). Everything else is pure bull****. Disliking it just comes down to your personal taste and it doesn't give you the right to demand a "better" ending.

So, you like the fact that absoluetly nothing we did during the previous two games mattered?  

You like the fact that the catalyst was a little kid for whom most people feel nothing?  

You like the fact that we couldn't question the kid?  

You like the fact that the kid's reasoning is counterintuitive?

 You like the fact that all of the endings looked the same?  

You like the fact that in the lead up to the game Casey Hudson said that the ending wouldn't come down to an A, B, C, choice even though that's exactly what it came down to?  

You like the fact that the allies we gathered over the course of the game were reduced to a number?  

You like the fact that the conduit lied to us both overtly "All synthetics will die, the reapers, the geth, EDI, even you have synthetic parts,"  yet, both Shepard and EDI can be shown surviving the destruction, or implicitly, such as only mentioning that the mass relays explode if you chose destruction eventhough they explode reguardless of what you chose?

You like the fact that a game built on choice and cosequences, in the end gives you little choice and shows you no consequences?

You like the fact that reguardless of what you choose, everyone you brought is stranded in the Sol System for however long it takes to travel to another system?

You like the fact that there was no end fight, even if the fight was with words?

You like the fact that they complely changed genres in the last five minutes?

You like the fact that the end protagonist was the kid instead of Shepard?

You like the fact that, since at least some of your squadmates are on the Normandy on that planet, and you're stuck on Earth, that they didn't even look for your body, even though, if it is your LI (especially Liara) it is completely out of character?

You like the fact that Shepard is completely out of character as (s)he is talking to the kid... well for most people anyway?

You like the fact that we don't know what happened to any of the races?

You like the fact that the grandfather telling a story comes from completely out of nowhere?

You like the fact that it ends with an advertisement for upcomming DLC?

You like all of that?

I like the fact that you worked so hard to put a negative spin on everything you can without trying to see it a different way. It almost takes some imagination.

One thing which does deserve a response to though is the "star child". Has anyone stopped to think it's just the catalyst trying to intimidate Shepard by showing it can read his thoughts? It's just the form this very advanced being chooses to represent itself as.

That is actually exactly what I thought, but my Shepard would be thinking about the lives she was trying to save, not some whiny brat who chose not to go with the nice people who were killing the monsters.

Also, you litterally answered none of my questions.

Did you like the lies, both in the run-up and during the game?

Did you like the dreary sameness that is shown throughout every ending?

Did you like the story telling portion that you can't argue was even slightly alluded to?

Did you like the single sentence epilogue that basically boiled down to "Buy More of Our Stuff?"

It's almost as if you know the ending is indefencible, and you're a contrarian.

[Cadence of the Planes]

I can't wait to see what other spin factors sustainable has used in that article.

You spin, I spin, the world spins! Get it?!

[AresCrusader]

warmonger180 wrote...

 and I think that was Joker walking with his grandkid telling him about someone who saved humanity, and all the other races, even tho there's no interstellar travel for a good long time, and of the sacrifice we all must make for whatever reason at one time or another

I woudl disagree with that - I think it's much further down the time line (as the old guy says it was soooooo long ago).

[JBONE27]

AresCrusader wrote...

warmonger180 wrote...

 and I think that was Joker walking with his grandkid telling him about someone who saved humanity, and all the other races, even tho there's no interstellar travel for a good long time, and of the sacrifice we all must make for whatever reason at one time or another

I woudl disagree with that - I think it's much further down the time line (as the old guy says it was soooooo long ago).

Plus unless you chose synthisis... how could Joker and EDI have a kid?

[HenchxNarf]

Atakuma wrote...

Well, the supposed majority of people disagree, so you're opinion is wrong.

An opinion is an opinion. Their opinion is not wrong. However, your "majority" is wrong.

[HenchxNarf]

It took more time than I thought for the usual band of merry nay-sayers to join in here.

OP, most of us don't get the hate either. But eh. I'm glad you enjoyed the game, and it sounds like you chose the same path I did and I couldn't be happier.

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 18 avril 2012 - 09:44 .

[Dridengx]

Il Divo wrote...

poerksen wrote...

Imagination ehh. The problem is that there are way too many questions regarding plotholes, inconsistencies with game lore and space magic that it destroys the narrative. It is not that I could not have imagined what the writers were thinking, but that I am left to think up explanations on my own on too many different aspects, which simply does not work, when you are trying to tell a story.

My problem is that my imagination is free. I didn't pay for the game to imagine a quality ending into place. 

Absolutely right, you paid to play it which I'm sure you did

[FDrage]

HenchxNarf wrote...

It took more time than I thought for the usual band of merry nay-sayers to join in here.

OP, most of us don't the hate either. But eh. I'm glad you enjoyed the game, and it sounds like you chose the same path I did and I couldn't be happier.

comapred toe teh small marry band of "yeah saysers" that seem to define themselcves as teh vaoical majoity and only true fans and have nothing better to do then do the very same thing that they accuse the "nay-sayers to do?

it took those people a lot less time.

and for good old tradition.

here have a cookie ...

[grifter024]

Heard all the backlash about the ending and finally decided to play and finish the game and have to say there were a FEW little points of the game that they really did well (I was actually angry at the end of Thessia and thought it would have punched home Shep was at the point of breaking if he went to his cabin and broke stuff frustrated..at least you can snap at a few people afterwards)

Still I ended my playthrough right at Shepards speech at the FOB....I had fun up to that point that I won't ruin my opinion of the franchise because Bioware can't write an ending.

[JBONE27]

Dridengx wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

poerksen wrote...

Imagination ehh. The problem is that there are way too many questions regarding plotholes, inconsistencies with game lore and space magic that it destroys the narrative. It is not that I could not have imagined what the writers were thinking, but that I am left to think up explanations on my own on too many different aspects, which simply does not work, when you are trying to tell a story.

My problem is that my imagination is free. I didn't pay for the game to imagine a quality ending into place. 

Absolutely right, you paid to play it which I'm sure you did

I honestly bought it for an epic story with a satifying conclusion.  I got the former, but not the latter.

[HenchxNarf]

grifter024 wrote...

Heard all the backlash about the ending and finally decided to play and finish the game and have to say there were a FEW little points of the game that they really did well (I was actually angry at the end of Thessia and thought it would have punched home Shep was at the point of breaking if he went to his cabin and broke stuff frustrated..at least you can snap at a few people afterwards)

Still I ended my playthrough right at Shepards speech at the FOB....I had fun up to that point that I won't ruin my opinion of the franchise because Bioware can't write an ending.

They can write endings, they did a great job. It's your opinion that they can't.

[JBONE27]

grifter024 wrote...

Heard all the backlash about the ending and finally decided to play and finish the game and have to say there were a FEW little points of the game that they really did well (I was actually angry at the end of Thessia and thought it would have punched home Shep was at the point of breaking if he went to his cabin and broke stuff frustrated..at least you can snap at a few people afterwards)

Still I ended my playthrough right at Shepards speech at the FOB....I had fun up to that point that I won't ruin my opinion of the franchise because Bioware can't write an ending.

The endings to DA:O were great.

[grifter024]

HenchxNarf wrote...



They can write endings, they did a great job. It's your opinion that they can't.

Not just my opinion since the backlash towards how they did the ending has FORCED Bioware to make DLC specifically for the ending. Needless to say I agree I've seen the endings, I've seen the videos, I've seen people arguing on bashing the ending and the other side of the coin people defending Bioware and their convoluted ending.

Can I deal with some nobody child that was shown in the beginning be in my Sheps dreams, sure. Can I deal with said child that I have no time to care enough about him that the reveal at the end actually affected my shep or me as a player for that matter actually matter? Sure to a point although after seeing the vids I still didn't feel anything towards the kid (I have no idea how someone feels any sympathy towards a kid we know nothing about but is just called Starchild) 

Can I deal with all the plot holes that they couldn't write out leading up to the reveal and afterwards or what happens to characters I actually cared about, or how the endings are the exact same but in one ending the Reapers fall down...that is a big NO.

JBONE27 wrote...
The endings to DA:O were great.

I just didn't like the end of Morrigans arc...she leaves no matter what, would have been nice after all your talks and tries to bust her out of her shell she STILL leaves.  I do agree though...DA2 not at all though.

[Shadowmourne07]

We question your judgement.
We have reviewed the entire series as a whole.
The final chapter seems to be missing key entries and lines of code.

We assume data corruption.
We are compensating.

Modifié par Shadowmourne07, 18 avril 2012 - 10:50 .

[Tirranek]

TheseAreMyToys wrote...

warmonger180 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Watch this, and you'll see what all the fuss is about:

well, "plot holes" are no reason to what amounts to vilification of a
game and it's developers, nor are they sufficient reason to file a
complaint with the FTC. it's as simple as this: those who can, do. those
who can't critisize. so to all the haters, I challenge you all to get
together and develop a game this is better than what bioware has
presented

Warmonger180 really?  If someone thinks the 6 "Skittle's" style endings are well done and mesh with the entire orignal scope/objective of the series they are COMPLETELY WRONG.  One would have to have a very low level of perception and understanding to not see the obvious plot holes and total lack of congruency.

The thing that is sad about being blind to this kind of thing only helps EA/BioWare be lethargic or apathetic toward actually rectifying the issue.  Either the game was rushed for profiteering or Casey Hudson had a serious lapse of judgement.

Ok, I'm sorry for sounding like an ass but everyone mentions the 3 ending colours as a sign of them being identical, are they also deaf and can't read? There are huge story differences between them. I get the feeling sometimes that if the energy blast was light violet for all of them (the colour of the serpent nebula, oooo~) then people would almost be happier, or at least have to comission a more imaginative set of cakes. 

If the EC represents your war assets better, and shows the consequences of the three endings, then the 3-colour argument will look ridiculous.

[PaddlePop]

As strange as it may be, there are even people who enjoyed the dismal and insulting ending to Kane and Lynch 2, and even some who enjoyed the really pathetic ending to Rage. It doesn't surprise me that there are even people who enjoyed the ending to Mass Effect 3, but in all three cases, I will merely shake my head. "Whatever floats your boat" I'll utter, but that still does not change the fact that the Mass Effect 3 endings were terrible. No matter how many Bioware employees create accounts and post about how good the endings were.

They just aren't, lads. Now stop trolling us. We're not idiots.