101 réponses à ce sujet

[Tsarapihelas]

Joy Divison wrote...

Anybody who says "I hope so," really needs to redo the Arishok duel and then edit their post...

The Arishok fight is probably the easiest fight in the game if you're a FM. Act 2's final boss fight was supposed to feel climactic but it was just so terribly executed it lost a lot of its appeal.

[Jpherb]

I hope so! The rogue backstabbing alone is enough to hook me, but there are so many cool moves

[Dakota Strider]

Jpherb wrote...

I hope so! The rogue backstabbing alone is enough to hook me, but there are so many cool moves

THAT is what highlights so much of what is wrong with the DA2 combat system.  If you recall your Dragon Age lore, from Origins, regarding magic....

Cardinal Rules of Magic
"You must not be under the misimpression that magic is all-powerful. There are limits, and not even the greatest mages may overcome them.
No one, for instance, has found any means of traveling-either over great distances or small ones-beyond putting one foot in front of the other. The immutable nature of the physical world prevents this. So no, you may not simply pop over to Minrathous to borrow a cup of sugar, nor may you magic the essay you "forgot" in the apprentice dormitory to your desk. You will simply have to be prepared.
Similarly, even when you send your mind into the Fade, your body remains behind. Only once has this barrier been overcome, and reputedly the spell required two-thirds of the lyrium in the Tevinter Imperium as well as the lifeblood of several hundred slaves. The results were utterly disastrous.
Finally, life is finite. A truly great healer may bring someone back from the very precipice of death, when breath and heartbeat have ceased but the spirit still clings to life. But once the spirit has fled the body, it cannot be recalled. That is no failing of your skills or power, it is simple reality. "

So, any character teleporting across the battlefield, breaks a cardinal rule of magic, the game designers set for their own world.   And if they cannot maintain consistancy on one of the most important aspects of the game...it really messes up the whole story.

And the rogue backstab in DA2, is nothing short of a teleport/dimension door.  And even if that cardinal rule against teleportation did not exist, then it would still be someone that was not a mage, using magic.  And there is no other way to explain that move, except by magic.

All of the over the top combat moves, belong in a different genre of games.  I am sure that Bioware/EA is very happy to attract some people that enjoy the hentai style, arcade system of combat, where any sense of logic is thrown out the window, to make eye candy.   It would have been nice if Bioware felt secure enough in their own Game of the Year, to keep a proven system, rather than feel the need to become a cheap imitation of Final Fantasy.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 22 avril 2012 - 01:16 .

[hussey 92]

They need to bring back auto-attack, so you can keep track of more then one character at a time

[eroeru]

Pzykozis wrote...

wish people would seperate their ideas of encounter design (arishok fight, waves, lack of tactics) and combat systems. The combat is effectively the same between the games just more responsive and paced differently. Encounters are something different (could do with a fair bit of work).

You're not talking about separation. You're talking about omission.

There are plentyful of valid claims about DA2's combat system being much for the worse, the main one being the fact many a player couldn't get strategic depth without the separation of discreet movements (which was nicely done in Origins, for the strategic player type).

And it's not much use of separating the claims if people hate the 1. encounters, 2. the aesthetics (which overlay), and 3. combat mechanics (there's most probably other dimensions which I'm also overlooking at the moment). It might be cleaner to analyse and stuff, but if you can't grasp the argument, don't think about fixing the format (and you do agree you're not only talking about the format, and your claim was contradictory/biased as such?).
  

Modifié par eroeru, 22 avril 2012 - 09:42 .

[Jpherb]

Very good points, Dakota, however if we take into account Quantum Physics ...
It's still fun, though

Modifié par Jpherb, 22 avril 2012 - 07:04 .

[adi4444]

wtf in da2 evry enemy has ton of hp a lot more than you...and enemies apearing from the air or coming down from the walls that is good combat??????? how can any1 say that da2 combat is good? it mibe good for some action game but for rpg?? its the most bad combat i sew i agree that dao combat should be more fast but not redicolus like da2 they just put loots of mobs evrywere with tons of hp and THATS the combat of da2,,and it SUCKS big time !!

[eroeru]

Dakota Strider wrote...
 I am sure that Bioware/EA is very happy to attract some people that enjoy the hentai style, arcade system of combat, where any sense of logic is thrown out the window, to make eye candy.

What?!

You do know that hentai means porn?

[Sejborg]

Origins combat was almost right. There was some shuffling into position instead of just hitting them, and there where some issues when ordering your minions.

Besides from that the combat in Origins was great. It felt tactical and was alot of fun. It really showed when I used an ability right, because it could flip the balance of the fight. The DA2 combat where you jump ten meters from a standing position into the face of an enemy, and have to spam buttons to kill enemies just feels wrong.

[Eilaras]

eroeru wrote...

I hope not!

I loved Origins for its more realistic approach. I bet most of you who don't like it haven't held a sword in hand, nor seen anyone proficient with a dagger, much less would imagine up a believable (hypothetical) magic.

I agree! I loved the more realistic combat in origins, and i liked the details like dodging/parrying and the killing blows. If i want to hack and slash by pressing the a button until my thumbs get sore i can buy tekken or heavenly sword. 
I liked the story in DA2 but the combat made me feel like i was playing a god of war/japanese anime kind of game, and it doesn`t fit with the realistic, dark setting the DA universe has (well, used to have anyway)

[Sidney]

hussey 92 wrote...

They need to bring back auto-attack, so you can keep track of more then one character at a time

It is there. What are you talking about?

[Sidney]

Eilaras wrote...

eroeru wrote...

I hope not!

I loved Origins for its more realistic approach. I bet most of you who don't like it haven't held a sword in hand, nor seen anyone proficient with a dagger, much less would imagine up a believable (hypothetical) magic.

I agree! I loved the more realistic combat in origins, and i liked the details like dodging/parrying and the killing blows. If i want to hack and slash by pressing the a button until my thumbs get sore i can buy tekken or heavenly sword. 
I liked the story in DA2 but the combat made me feel like i was playing a god of war/japanese anime kind of game, and it doesn`t fit with the realistic, dark setting the DA universe has (well, used to have anyway)

Well yes and no. First, let's no try and prertend DAO had any "realism" when something like Scattershot exists or Whirlwind which is stupid on its face. It is things like that that people seem to forget when tlaking about the "silly of DA2".  Fantasy combat is by always ridiculous looking games - I mean even soemthing that wants to be gritty like TW2 winds up with you going a gymnastics routine in combat.

DA2 improved properly the speed of the combatants. The people in DAO moved like they were in mud and didn't react worth spit. I mean trying to defend your mage was pointless because by the time Allistar and Sten actually attacked the guards they'd run right by them from dozens of meters away. That had to change. Where DA2 went off the rails were making attacks move too fast as you said and the weapons look weightless - and if you dropped haste that was even more crazed.

[eroeru]

^^ That example with Alistair and Sten is a bug in the AI, nothing more.

With scattershot and whirlwind and such there isn't a problem as long as the animations look sound (that's the bulk of "believablity" in fantasy games - the absence of ridiculous flashiness - nobody tries to apply strict logic, as with magic).

[hussey 92]

Sidney wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

They need to bring back auto-attack, so you can keep track of more then one character at a time

It is there. What are you talking about?

not on the xbox

[Chrumpek]

Zkyire wrote...

Dragon Age Origins combat was actually slower than 'real life' combat.

Greatswords still only weigh a few pounds, and since you're using both hands, the actual speed of each strike is still quite fast. The drawback is actually its sheer size which makes it a bit difficult to wield in tight spaces/right up close. Although Greatswords having the ability to damage multiple targets in a swing was a nice touch. But DAO showed the 2-handed warriors taking several seconds to swing, which was a bit ridiculous. Unfortunately, DA2 went too fast.

The same can be said for Longswords, although not to the same extent.


Exploding enemies. There are a few magical spells where exploding enemies would not only look cool, but make sense. But for regular weapon slashes or a low level fire attack? No.

Basically, DA2 was too fast and explodey, and DAO was a bit too slow. So hopefully, for DA3, a middle ground can be reached.

Agree with you, altho on an example of a full plate warrior with 2 hander or a board and sword, the swings were actually tuned fine. Of course take away the full palte and yea they might look too slow.

[eroeru]

Though I've got to add, ultimately I'd like combat that's much slower than real life. E.g. chess.

The main thing is that the animations need to be subtle, not that they'd need realism as such (though reality is in fact the most subtle dimension).

Modifié par eroeru, 24 avril 2012 - 12:50 .

[Sidney]

hussey 92 wrote...

Sidney wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

They need to bring back auto-attack, so you can keep track of more then one character at a time

It is there. What are you talking about?

not on the xbox

Yes it is. It is an option to set. It wasn't there on launch day as promised but they did a quick patch on it. Made the game a lot more tolerable.

[Sidney]

eroeru wrote...

^^ That example with Alistair and Sten is a bug in the AI, nothing more.

With scattershot and whirlwind and such there isn't a problem as long as the animations look sound (that's the bulk of "believablity" in fantasy games - the absence of ridiculous flashiness - nobody tries to apply strict logic, as with magic).

Well the animations don't look sound - the whirlwind looks like a pirouette with knives for example.

From the time a command was issued to reaction took too long - the shuffling as it tried to line up for the animations to take hold. I guess that is a bug because it shouldn't work that way but it was never called a defect it just was the code. You want a fluid comabt experience. DA2 was a lot more fluid, they just had too many swings going on too quikcly - a lot of that is about balance on damage and hit points requiring 800 swats to kill anything.

[Jpherb]

eroeru wrote...

Dakota Strider wrote...
 I am sure that Bioware/EA is very happy to attract some people that enjoy the hentai style, arcade system of combat, where any sense of logic is thrown out the window, to make eye candy.

What?!

You do know that hentai means porn?

:lol::crying:

[Dakota Strider]

eroeru wrote...

Dakota Strider wrote...
 I am sure that Bioware/EA is very happy to attract some people that enjoy the hentai style, arcade system of combat, where any sense of logic is thrown out the window, to make eye candy.

What?!

You do know that hentai means porn?

Oops.  I stand corrected.  Did some research, and I guess the word I should have used was manga.  Had the two definitions turned around, apparently.  Or perhaps it would have been safer if I just said anime.   Although, if I were to say that large parts of DA2 combat was nothing more than smut, it would make the original word more accurate.

Next time, I will use better research, before using terms I am not that familar with.

[TheShadowWolf911]

i hope not

[Luigitornado]

I wouldn't mind more realistic animations, but at a quicker pace, and more like DA:O.

[Reznik23]

The combat still needs work. The fighting in DA2 just didn't "do it" for me. Without wanting to make too many other-game examples, the fighting in Demon's Souls & Dark Souls is really the benchmark for me now for gaming combat: simple but very enjoyable & satisfying. Don't know how much of this style could be incorporated into DAs tactical, squad driven mechanics but might be something to consider. Even if the combat went back to the style of DA:O but with improved auto attack - if it's good to watch that'll do me. It was pretty disappointing in DA:O to hear about the ancient Arcane Warriors and their magic powered melee mastery only to watch the auto attack just pounding the sword as if it was hammering in a nail. Weren't they supposed to be almost medieval/fantasy Jedi after all?

P.S. please bring back the Arcane Warrior...

[eroeru]

Dakota Strider wrote...

eroeru wrote...

Dakota Strider wrote...
 I am sure that Bioware/EA is very happy to attract some people that enjoy the hentai style, arcade system of combat, where any sense of logic is thrown out the window, to make eye candy.

What?!

You do know that hentai means porn?

Oops.  I stand corrected.  Did some research, and I guess the word I should have used was manga.  Had the two definitions turned around, apparently.  Or perhaps it would have been safer if I just said anime.   Although, if I were to say that large parts of DA2 combat was nothing more than smut, it would make the original word more accurate.

Next time, I will use better research, before using terms I am not that familar with.

No problem. It's good that you did get smarter out of it.