118 réponses à ce sujet

[Gnaeus.Silvanus]

There's no indoctrination OP. Bioware has already said the endings will stay the same. But it would be hot-damned if they did this DLC. Imagine, Shepard waking up in a field hospital in London where there is a ceasefire of some sort because of the Citadel incident.

The Citadel explosion did something to the reapers but a few hundred still exist and they are still on route for a counter-strike against the stranded fleet.

Shepard is badly injured near death but his friends race across the galaxy scouring for synthetic parts that could revive him.

If this was only true, DAMN I'll buy that DLC even if it costs me 14.99!!!

[EHondaMashButton]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

A lot of things get cut for various reasons when you're dealing with a project this big.

The entire recruitment structure of ME2 was became dictated by the DVD size of the xbox 360, meaning "canon" became you didn't recruit Legion until endgame.  Yet changing 1 line on your savefile unlocks him at the start of the game, and he has full dialogue all the way from Horizon, Archangel, Jack, etc.  

Some writer wrote all that dialogue.  The voiceactors recorded it.  The sound team touched up the voice.  The programmers put him in.  And it got dropped for external reasons.  But its still there, hidden.  What ends up in the final product is not neccessarily the same as what the artists envisioned.

The ending we got is too fragmented to even say what they finally settled on.  The intended play broke down, and we basically got a last second hail mary. 

Modifié par EHondaMashButton, 18 avril 2012 - 04:08 .

[Peregrin25]

Gnaeus.Silvanus wrote...

There's no indoctrination OP. Bioware has already said the endings will stay the same. But it would be hot-damned if they did this DLC. Imagine, Shepard waking up in a field hospital in London where there is a ceasefire of some sort because of the Citadel incident.

The Citadel explosion did something to the reapers but a few hundred still exist and they are still on route for a counter-strike against the stranded fleet.

Shepard is badly injured near death but his friends race across the galaxy scouring for synthetic parts that could revive him.

If this was only true, DAMN I'll buy that DLC even if it costs me 14.99!!!

They did say the ending was going to stay the same but they did not necessarily say that Indoctrination Theory is untrue. It could be an elaborate plot twist.

Not once did they say Indoctrination Theory was not true. They refused to comment on it. You can add Indoctrination Theory and still have the current ending unchanged. They said, what you see is what you get, That leaves it open to even more speculation. Indcotrination Theory isn't necessarily changing the ending if that was in fact their intended story but had to alter some things due to time constraints. This is also just speculation so don't take what I am saying as fact. Just some food for thought.

Modifié par Peregrin25, 18 avril 2012 - 04:16 .

[CARL_DF90]

I can see where you are going OP and I completely understand. Despite the on going debate over whether or not the I.T. is true, I have to admit there is more than enough evidence to support it. Whether or not Bioware will use all of it, parts of it, or none of it is again open for debate. If they don't use I.T. then they will have a great number of plotholes that need addressing. One of the main ones is how if it is not true, Shepard is still functioning normally after getting knocked by Reaper tech in the ME2 Arrival DLC, and for TWO FULL DAYS was being constantly exposed to the people and technology that causes indoctrination. There is no precedent in either the lore or the codex of someone being immune to indoctrination. Resistant maybe, but out right immunity? No. That and many other points are brought up rather well in this vid.

[Savber100]

Gnaeus.Silvanus wrote...

There's no indoctrination OP. Bioware has already said the endings will stay the same. But it would be hot-damned if they did this DLC. Imagine, Shepard waking up in a field hospital in London where there is a ceasefire of some sort because of the Citadel incident.
!

Seriously do people even read about IT? The theory is BASED on the fact that the endings will stay the same. The only need is clarification if Bioware is truly going with IT. 

[ashwind]

Savber100 wrote...

Gnaeus.Silvanus wrote...

There's no indoctrination OP. Bioware has already said the endings will stay the same. But it would be hot-damned if they did this DLC. Imagine, Shepard waking up in a field hospital in London where there is a ceasefire of some sort because of the Citadel incident.
!

Seriously do people even read about IT? The theory is BASED on the fact that the endings will stay the same. The only need is clarification if Bioware is truly going with IT. 

Did YOU read about the IT? How can the ending stay the same? Care to explain?

If the current ending is crap, the IT is like Bioware offering me urine to rinse off that bad taste in my mouth. 

[Peregrin25]

Savber100 wrote...

Gnaeus.Silvanus wrote...

There's no indoctrination OP. Bioware has already said the endings will stay the same. But it would be hot-damned if they did this DLC. Imagine, Shepard waking up in a field hospital in London where there is a ceasefire of some sort because of the Citadel incident.
!

Seriously do people even read about IT? The theory is BASED on the fact that the endings will stay the same. The only need is clarification if Bioware is truly going with IT. 

Agreed!

That summed up my last post better than what I had said. I just have a tendancy to get carried away when i type lol.

[BiancoAngelo7]

kbct wrote...

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

I apologize if someone has already mentioned this, but I realized this while I was working late passing the time on the forums instead of writing up contracts like I should have been....

I have no comment on IT theory, but I did enjoy your post. Funny stuff.

LOL  yeah, sometimes I wonder how many other "serious work" people are out there that are secretly ME fans and on the forums like me...sometimes I envision my boss getting off the phone with partners and then logging on to the forums all the while doing the "9gag pondering in front of PC" face lolol.

Swimming Ferret wrote...

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

More of the same

Look dude, just saying the same thing over and over again isn't going to convince anyone,
or even make you sound any more right. You have your opinion, which you
refuse to support with anything more than "that's how it is" and that's
fine. Let's not get into an argument ok? I hope you have a nice evening
(It's evening where I am anyway)

And I mean that, I'm not being condescending or anything. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Pfft,
a bit hypocirtal right there, isn't it? You're parroting the same thing
other IT fans are moaning about and I'm getting irritated with it.
Sure, I loved the ME trilogy, but if fans come up with better endings
than the actual game, than the ME3 writers have competely failed at
deilvering a worthwhile story.

That final sentence might have gone better without that emote right there, you know. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Dude...whatever you want. I tried to be nice and respectful of your opinion and your point even though it was made without any discussion, just with the repetition of basically "I'm right", so you throw it back in my face calling me a hypocrite and telling me I offended you because I used a smiley in my attempt to be sincerely friendly?....That tells me that you're taking this discussion personally instead of being interested in discussing the OP, so let's just drop it ok?

[AlanC9]

Savber100 wrote...


Seriously do people even read about IT? The theory is BASED on the fact that the endings will stay the same. The only need is clarification if Bioware is truly going with IT. 

Isn't the theory also based on the endings not being .... endings? The whole point of IT as I understood it is that nothing's actually happened by the end of ME3.

[CARL_DF90]

Exactly. Some people missed the point. And probably didn't even bother watching all of the vid I posted. Sure, it hasn't been confirmed yet. That's the meaning of the word "theory". But this theory has enough evidence to support it and would be a good way to help fix things.

Modifié par CARL_DF90, 18 avril 2012 - 05:01 .

[SLana]

ashwind wrote...
Did YOU read about the IT? How can the ending stay the same? Care to explain?

If the current ending is crap, the IT is like Bioware offering me urine to rinse off that bad taste in my mouth. 

Well I can explain it in two ways but both are worse than just bad writing 

[Cadence of the Planes]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Oh please, the Indoctrination Theory is just some fans in denial; they need to accept that the end Mass Effect 3 is just a plothole ridden mess and deal with it.

 

Yes, because how dare someone make a point you disagree with.

I mean really, the nerve

[Repearized Miranda]

SLana wrote...

ashwind wrote...
Did YOU read about the IT? How can the ending stay the same? Care to explain?

If the current ending is crap, the IT is like Bioware offering me urine to rinse off that bad taste in my mouth. 

Well I can explain it in two ways but both are worse than just bad writing 

But it would be a bigger mess if this isn't what they went with. After pushing so hard for three games. That is like Liara saying they have no clue about defeating the Reapers and then pulling the Crucible out her blue behind. Oh, wait! That happened! No such idea was mentioned in ME2 (can't comment on Arrival)

Suddenly back-pedaling on an idea is as bad as disguising with what looks like a new one. I do think it was Indoctrination as along! If not, why would there be this social meme?

What else is there, but bad writing? And if it is such, why would they push it so hard?

[Swimming Ferret]

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Oh please, the Indoctrination Theory is just some fans in denial; they need to accept that the end Mass Effect 3 is just a plothole ridden mess and deal with it.

 

Yes, because how dare someone make a point you disagree with.

I mean really, the nerve

I love how people assume dissagreeing = being a ****.
Ah, BSN.

[JBONE27]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Indoctrination takes more than a few hours and Vendetta would have said you were indoctrinated on Thessia or the Cerberus Base right before Priority Earth. Indoctrination theory is impossible.

Actually, there are a number of ways to explain this.

1.  What if Shepard was the one indoctronated and Leng wasn't.  Remember Leng works for TIM, and remains loyal to him due to his hatred for aliens.  If you indoctronate the boss, why would you need to indoctronated his underlings. Granted that does raise the question of why the VI mentions it as he arrives, which could actually be explained rather easily, Leng was waiting to find out if the VI actually had any information, when the VI pointed out that someone was indoctronated, he (Leng) decided to attack and steal it realizing that it did have the information he wanted.  Remember Leng is a ninja, he could have jumped out of that jet and made it there in less than the 5 seconds it took to enact the protocal.  The VI was looking away from Shepard to not let on that (s)he was the indoctronated one, and thereby not be destroyed or hacked into.

2.  The indoctronation scensor must suck because it was in an area teeming with Reaper activity, and it took over a minute to detect any indoctronated presence.

3.  Shepard was not in close proximity to the reapers for extended periods of time between arrival and the mission on Earth.  The fact is that it takes a long time for indoctronation to take hold, and it often has to do with proximity (see Shiala and Rana Thanoptis), neither of whom exhibited any signs of indoctronation between the time they left Soverign and the time the Reapers invaded.

[ashwind]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

SLana wrote...

ashwind wrote...
Did YOU read about the IT? How can the ending stay the same? Care to explain?

If the current ending is crap, the IT is like Bioware offering me urine to rinse off that bad taste in my mouth. 

Well I can explain it in two ways but both are worse than just bad writing 

But it would be a bigger mess if this isn't what they went with. After pushing so hard for three games. That is like Liara saying they have no clue about defeating the Reapers and then pulling the Crucible out her blue behind. Oh, wait! That happened! No such idea was mentioned in ME2 (can't comment on Arrival)

Suddenly back-pedaling on an idea is as bad as disguising with what looks like a new one. I do think it was Indoctrination as along! If not, why would there be this social meme?

What else is there, but bad writing? And if it is such, why would they push it so hard?

There are much better ways to deal with the current ending than the indoctrination theory that would have impact on not only the ending by nearly the entire game. Turn ME3 from a game with a bad ending into opps, incomplete game.

Suddenly indoctrination is not fought off with pure will power but with some sort of mind test? Somehow you only need to agree once with the Reapers suggestion and you are suddenly owned? Even fully indoctrinated individuals like TIM, Saren and Benezia can break free long enough to put a bullet through their own head. Hence indoctrinating Shepard would do the Reapers not good. Harbinger is not that stupid.

Even if the entire starchild encounter didnt really happen, doing it like the Geth consensus; ie Shepard's concious was mapped into the Catalyst through the "magic carpet of light" can also address the plotholes, explains why Shepard's body is elsewhere and best of all, do not have to break previous work that are not broken just to facilitate a shallow theory born out of desperation.

[Repearized Miranda]

^ But why push it only to say: "Oops! Gotcha?!" which seems to be what folks are hoping for.

I've seen where people keep posting about emps making comments about:

"It's not over! There's more!" They tell you with the "perfect ending." "All right! Maybe one more story!" How is there one if Shepard is clearly dead? It's even stated on the ME2 load screens. Dry run = new preset game.

Yeah, there's the breath thing, but that makes Indoctrination even more plausible - especially if Deja Vu occurs. ("Didn't I just do this?" If they have Shepard say that line of all lines)

Desperation, you say; alas, any form of speculation is desperation - thus why the ending is like it is. No theory posted isn't riddled somehow.

Truth is, it could be any of these theories or none of them; however, the pushing for this theory or that one too hard didn't help matters - no matter how sound or flawed it is, Indeed, sometimes, the obvious answer isn't the right one, but the "I knew it!" won't be coming from the Indoctrination camp if they do go with another speculated theory.

However, how many would be mad if they pull something out of nowhere. (I guess what Starchild is getting wouldn't be called heat)

Modifié par Repearized Miranda, 18 avril 2012 - 07:08 .

[Soultaker08]

No Thread about Indoctrination without fightings between supporters and realists, both sides bringing up the same arguments again and again , it is getting lame.

Even if there is "support" (NOT EVIDENCE) for IT, there is no way Bioware needs 9 Months (summer 2012) for making the real ending (as they stated game was rdy in November 2011)

Thats hilarious

[Troller79]

The IT theory is real i have seen the facts Bioware didnt mess up anything they did this on purpose its called marketing a plot devised by the tyrants at EA. watch this video on youtube it proves everything go to the link.

[kumquats]

Savber100 wrote...

Seriously do people even read about IT? The theory is BASED on the fact that the endings will stay the same. The only need is clarification if Bioware is truly going with IT. 

I have to admit, I didn't:

Your search for « Indoctrination Theory » returned 51 result/s.

Maybe you can open a new thread and write down a summary about the IT. We need more spam in the forums. GOGOGO!

[ashwind]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

^ But why push it only to say: "Oops! Gotcha?!" which seems to be what folks are hoping for.

Bioware's "Gotcha" moment has come and gone since Dr. Ray responded. There is clearly no "Gotcha" planned.

Yeah, there's the breath thing, but that makes Indoctrination even more plausible - especially if Deja Vu occurs. ("Didn't I just do this?" If they have Shepard say that line of all lines)

There could be a trillion explaination that does not involve indoctrination with infinitely less plot holes. ie. With enough EMS, the Reapers didnt get through and didnt damage the Crucible, hence energy dispursement was done perfectly and thus Shepard survived the blast. EMS too low, Crucible severely damaged hence vaporizing earth. Such an explaination can explains MORE than the indoctrination theory could with why earth was vaporize in some cases and not others. 
Easily explained with an extra cut scene which is what the Extended Cut is about.

However, how many would be mad if they pull something out of nowhere. (I guess what Starchild is getting wouldn't be called heat)

Pulling something out of no where is EXACTLY what the indoctrination theory is about.

[Repearized Miranda]

Soultaker08 wrote...

No Thread about Indoctrination without fightings between supporters and realists, both sides bringing up the same arguments again and again , it is getting lame.

Even if there is "support" (NOT EVIDENCE) for IT, there is no way Bioware needs 9 Months (summer 2012) for making the real ending (as they stated game was rdy in November 2011)

Thats hilarious

^ Exactly, but they pushed it back three months, so it wasn't ready. And given all the other flaws, maybe the game itself should come out instead of the DLC. Things could have been worse, but "was this game rushed?" would've been asked. Maybe not the whole game, but the most pivotal part of it - certainly shows this.

However, here it is April. Three and half months supposedly.

If there's supposedly only support for this theory, then there's only such for the others.

[Soultaker08]

Troller79 wrote...

The IT is real i have seen the facts 

Because everyone says he saw the facts, this discussion wont stop until EC.

I saw the videos too and im not in any point convienced and statements and reaction by Bioware and the time that has gone by, gives me the feeling that i am right (opinion)

There is no way to prove IT until EC is out, so never say "fact" "real" "prove", there are only things to support IT, facts can only be given by Bioware

Modifié par Soultaker08, 18 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[Repearized Miranda]

ashwind wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

^ But why push it only to say: "Oops! Gotcha?!" which seems to be what folks are hoping for.

Bioware's "Gotcha" moment has come and gone since Dr. Ray responded. There is clearly no "Gotcha" planned.

Yeah, there's the breath thing, but that makes Indoctrination even more plausible - especially if Deja Vu occurs. ("Didn't I just do this?" If they have Shepard say that line of all lines)

There could be a trillion explaination that does not involve indoctrination with infinitely less plot holes. ie. With enough EMS, the Reapers didnt get through and didnt damage the Crucible, hence energy dispursement was done perfectly and thus Shepard survived the blast. EMS too low, Crucible severely damaged hence vaporizing earth. Such an explaination can explains MORE than the indoctrination theory could with why earth was vaporize in some cases and not others. 
Easily explained with an extra cut scene which is what the Extended Cut is about.

However, how many would be mad if they pull something out of nowhere. (I guess what Starchild is getting wouldn't be called heat)

Pulling something out of no where is EXACTLY what the indoctrination theory is about.

But, they pushed it, so damn hard!

That's like a insane person saying they are sane; yet, 99% of his or her actions clearly display insanity! You could've have fooled me!

Now, the best way to fool me is if 99% of said actions are sane!

All theories are exactly that. Something pulled from thin air! But if it's BS now, it must have been BS then; yet, some who played went with it! The other theories could be just as much BS with or without evidence to back it up.

[Troller79]

i hate dumb ppl and thats everyone who doesnt believe in IT