15 réponses à ce sujet

[wowpwnslol]

I think most people can agree that mages were lackluster in DA2. Weak spells (without CCC), poor survivability and constantly plagued by enemy spell immunities. Below are 3 basic suggestions to make mages better in DA3:

1) Survivability spells.

Traditionally mages are known for the spells that make the mage avoid enemy attacks entirely. This was the case in NWN series with improved invisibility and mirror image. Protection from magical weapons in BG2 and force field in DA:O. This wasn't the case in DA2, where if you got surrounded and stagger locked, it is pretty much a reload. In fact I was shocked that the "force mage" spec didn't include force field spell. It was the best best defensive spell in DA:O. Mages in DA2 lack "get out of jail card" and that is a problem considering their weak HP.

I suggest adding force field in DA3 or at least a barrier type spell that allows mage to absorb a few incoming attacks.


2) Animation lock
Randomly taking 2 seconds to execute a basic auto attack sucks. Getting animation locked while enemies beat down on you is unacceptable. Bioware needs to do away with flashy attack routines and make mages have an auto attack that isn't a death sentence against enemies which can stun, stagger lock, stun lock you if they hit you.


3) Immunities.

I  was never a fan of total immunities because they make the game unfun for the player, making him feel useless and worthless in a fight. Immunities, IMO, should be done away with and replaced  with damage reduction. Warriors would start a riot if there were physical immune enemies, yet in DA2 there are trash mobs immune to multiple elements which screws mages badly given gimp damage of spells without CCC as it is.

Suggestion: remove elemental immunities in DA3.

[Mark of the Dragon]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I think most people can agree that mages were lackluster in DA2. Weak spells (without CCC), poor survivability and constantly plagued by enemy spell immunities. Below are 3 basic suggestions to make mages better in DA3:

1) Survivability spells.

Traditionally mages are known for the spells that make the mage avoid enemy attacks entirely. This was the case in NWN series with improved invisibility and mirror image. Protection from magical weapons in BG2 and force field in DA:O. This wasn't the case in DA2, where if you got surrounded and stagger locked, it is pretty much a reload. In fact I was shocked that the "force mage" spec didn't include force field spell. It was the best best defensive spell in DA:O. Mages in DA2 lack "get out of jail card" and that is a problem considering their weak HP.

I suggest adding force field in DA3 or at least a barrier type spell that allows mage to absorb a few incoming attacks.


2) Animation lock
Randomly taking 2 seconds to execute a basic auto attack sucks. Getting animation locked while enemies beat down on you is unacceptable. Bioware needs to do away with flashy attack routines and make mages have an auto attack that isn't a death sentence against enemies which can stun, stagger lock, stun lock you if they hit you.


3) Immunities.

I  was never a fan of total immunities because they make the game unfun for the player, making him feel useless and worthless in a fight. Immunities, IMO, should be done away with and replaced  with damage reduction. Warriors would start a riot if there were physical immune enemies, yet in DA2 there are trash mobs immune to multiple elements which screws mages badly given gimp damage of spells without CCC as it is.

Suggestion: remove elemental immunities in DA3.

I liked the mages in DA2 and so did many other people. I especially enjoyed how you could get up clsoe to fight enemies and didnt have to stay away from the action like DAO. The only thing I want to see approved is there attire I mean seriously non of the armor for them was cool, at all.
Anyway my point is that DA2 mage was worlds better then Origins mage.

[Davillo]

L2P

[Arthur Cousland]

If my mage got surrounded, he used mind blast, glyph of repulsion or telekinetic burst. I also raised their constitution once he had a comforable mana amount. While mages in DA2 weren't as tough as arcane warriors in Origins, they were hardly glass.

The animation lock does suck, and that affects other classes, like my archer rogue. I'll want to move him out of the way of an attack, but I have to wait until his shot is done animating first.

Trash mobs shouldn't be immune to spells, but if I was fighting some kind of boss level Rage Demon, I shouldn't be able to kill them with fire spells. It would be nice if there were more enemies who were resistant or immune to weapon damage, where a mage would come in handy for damage, instead of everything being resistant or immune to magic spells, but always be vulnerable to weapon damage.

In an emergency, you could cast the barrier spell, but with the 6 second duration and 45 second recast, it was never anything that you could rely on. I'd just use that on someone with 25% health, to give them more time to use a health potion. I'm assuming that Bioware removed force field because you could have multiple mages spam that on each other or on the tank.

[ChaosAgentLoki]

To be completely honest, I think the Mages were improved upon in DA2 from DA:O. They were a much better balanced class instead of what they were in DA:O (kill everything in a heartbeat...so boring IMO if you built the character certain ways) and the inclusion of being able to be right in the thick of combat was awesome. The only thing that I didn't like was the massive cooldown for the basic healing spell. That was ridiculous.

However, I can see some of what you're talking about. Unlike Warriors and Rogues who didn't have to adjust to as many new strategies in DA2, the Mage was like a new class entirely. Longer cooldowns, the spells were separated into more categories and there were numerous new abilities to access as well as the new Mage melee combat. Not to even start on some of the strategies that were completely destroyed due to a lack of certain spells. All of these would really throw someone off after playing DA:O.

So, what I'm getting at is that I think DA2 actually improved the Mage class, though I can still see where complaints would come from on this.

[LolaLei]

My Hawke Mage always done just fine.

Though it would have been cool if those little jedi lightsaber animation moves he done whilst fighting had started out as just basic "aim and fire" animations, slowly picking up fancier moves the more spells you learnt and the higher your stats were, 'cause it seemed kinda odd that a character at level 1 could still bust some moves like a pro.

[Huntress]

My hawke mage was fine, merril was fine and anders turning to vengance was OP. Yes DA2 mages were perfect and I hope they don't go back to DAO style with mages because it will be as horrible to play a mage in da3 as it is in DAO.

Modifié par Huntress, 18 avril 2012 - 03:09 .

[Servo to the bitter end]

Mages were definitely an improvement in DA2. The expanded skill trees were sorely missed, though Force mage was Bad. Ass.

Hopefully, Shapeshifter and Arcane Warrior will make a return in the next game, with the former being improved. I would have killed to play an Arcane Warrior in DA2.

[TEWR]

Mages were fine, for the most part -- barring the animation for Hemorrhage. Power wise they were perfect imo.

The enemy combat however needs some serious overhauling. AI, animations, abilities, etc.

And so too do the stats of the game need work. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Personally, I wouldn't mind a system where upon level up, the health and mana/stamina does automatically upgrade -- like in FFXII -- but the player can still invest points in Constitution or Willpower or whatever else they want. Of course, Willpower and Constitution would have to give more bonuses then just +5

Part of my problem with DA2's combat is that I have 300 health -- give or take -- but everyone else has a few thousand points of health. I like how the enemies have more health in battle, but I despise how unbalanced it is. Compounded by reports of what happens on Nightmare where you can one-shot your entire party, which seemed like a cheap way to try and make combat "tactical" IMO.

Never mind how the combat itself is handled, as I've discussed that one too often.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 18 avril 2012 - 03:45 .

[Zexiv]

I played DA2 last night rather than DA:O after reading the post just to check it out but my impression wasn't and still isn't one that mages were underpowered. My only character to complete DA2 Is a level 24 mage and playing some of the later saves she was able to do significant damage and crowd control.

I loaded up a lower level save on another character and took Bethany through the darkroads expedition and again Cone of Cold, Crushing Prison, Winter's Grasp all seems to do decent damage and CC. In times where she got swarmed I'd mind blast and watch as the computer playing my Rogue PC went to town.

Take it easy

[deuce985]

Wait, what?

People seriously think Mages weren't overpowered in both DA:O/DA2?

I thought they played fine. If you used the combo spells together...they were absolutely devastating...

I always carried 2 mages in my party in both DA:O and DA2. They were OP...

Oh yea, I thought the little staff+blade idea was awesome in DA2.

Modifié par deuce985, 18 avril 2012 - 10:52 .

[Sharn01]

Mages where fine power wise for the most part.

I will agree random immunities need to go, its fine when they make sense, a fire breathing dragon, or a fire demon would be resistant or immune to fire. But when random bandit is immune to fire for no reason its annoying, when a random quinari is immune to lightning and resistant to fire its equally stupid as well.

[Morroian]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I think most people can agree that mages were lackluster in DA2. 

Uh no, mages were much improved from DAO to DA2. I'd get rid of the animations and refine the ability trees further buts thats it. Oh and better mage outfits. 

[Maria Caliban]

I think most people can agree that mages in pants are superior to mages in robes. For that reason alone, DA 2 mages should be praised.

[Meris]

The only change I'd introduce to mages is to kill the design phylosophy where classes should be confined to a couple of roles. Dragon Age isn't a MMO and adopting new party roles is what makes a character creation/development system great.