282 réponses à ce sujet

[XxXSarenXxX]

KalilKareem wrote...

My problem with vanguards is not exactly their performance, but the fact that they by definition sets the pace of the game and forces everyone else to play by their rules. For instance; two infiltrators and an enigineer are comfortable bunkered down in sniping positions waiting for the wave. But the vanguard just charges pushes onwards and fights the bulk of the enemies around a corner somewhere, cuz thats what he does. Now all the rest of the team will just have to;

a) Wait for him to die, which probably won't even happen on bronze/silver.
Run after, breaking cover and exposing themselves to flanking (which they, unlike the vanguard are not designed to deal with)
c) Just sit there unintentionally leeching

So, its not that the vanguards I play with are any worse players than the rest of us. But the vanguard class by design is just very frustrating and annoying to play with.

Final note: There are players out there there that are keenly aware of this and play their vanguard to avoid this (for instance, staying in cover until the wave approches and the helping their team lock down enemies or covering a flank). But they are in minority AND they typically score far worse on the score board by being "nice guys".

Your statement can be argued both ways i find infiltrators annoying to play with because theyll sit back and snipe/kill steal every single last thing on the field forcing you to move foward and scope out some enemies if you want to kill anything.

Modifié par XxXSarenXxX, 18 avril 2012 - 05:09 .

[eye basher]

The only problem i have with vanguards is that 9 out of 10 suck and the chances of running into a suck vanguard are very high.

[datako12]

yestreday playing my drelldept with randoms, i jump into a lobby and end up with a team with an AA and a human vanguard, cant remember the 4th guy, before the game i'm thinking man i hope this guy isnt a ******. a couple of waves in and the vanguard is doing exactly what he should do, staying near either me or the AA and biotic charging all the things we kept priming, oh man is it glorious to actually play with an intelligent vanguard

[veramis]

Sorry to you guys who never play with an awesome vanguard, I'll play mostly vanguard on gold for a while and maybe you will be lucky enough to bask in my glory of excessive game mechanic exploitation.

[Mx_CN3]

I don't blame people for disliking vanguards, because the class is very easy to mess up with. A bad infiltrator can still sit back, get a few headshots, maybe a few rezzes, and not really be noticed. A bad vanguard gets himself wrecked right in front of the bad guys, and all the long range guys see it.

A good vanguard is exactly where he is needed. That could be covering a flank, or it could be tying people up far away so that the ranged guys can pick them off. I usually go straight for the biggest things on the map, because I can take the hits and keep them in place. If there are two flanks, I just pick one (usually the one that's harder to snipe), and leave my teammates to do whatever they want, either following me or holding their flank.

Being wary of vanguards is fine, immediately assuming they're bad while you're still in the lobby is just stupid.

[Xx_Belzak_xX]

ABjerre wrote...

Zenning wrote...
In either case, these classes are doing their part, just differently than they normally do.  Hell, why not have the Infiltrator grab a shotgun, and be just as effective, just up close. 

Once again, if you're blaming Vanguards for "setting the pace", you can just as easily blame Infiltrators for setting an other pace.

Why would an infiltrator grab a shotgun and put himself at an unnecessary risk of getting killed, at the account of catering to some moron that could just as well be covering the flank?

The difference is that if a vanguard is setting the pace, it forces 3 people out of their optimal playstile. If 3 other players are setting the pace, it forces the vanguard to play defencively and not stroke his epeen constantly with superman charges.

KalilKareem wrote...
Well, the thing is I sorta wanted to play the match.

You cant always get what you want, sorry.

Congrats, you just won the internet. 

[Phazael]

Yeah pretty much a crappy Adept or Infiltrator does not sink the entire team the way even a mediocre VG will. One server hiccup will not put you into an irrecoverable death on those classes, either. Finally, those of us who know how the spawn points work just die inside every time there is a VG prancing about goofing it all up for the rest of the team. Show me one good VG on gold and I will show you 99 others who got their team ganked on Silver/Gold by being dumb or made everyone else play a man down when they bugged out from Novaspam. Why take the chance at all in a PUG when enough idiots are already AFK leeching? At least the Leechers don't make things worse by leaving a trail of half chewed on mobs all over the map and shaking the screen constantly for the snipers.

[amd098]

a good vanguard is great
i stick with my team, and handle whatever comes close to them, we handled gold reapers with ease
brutes, and banshees went down fast, ravagers were the only time id leave my group so to tie them up

charge, nova, nova cancel, nova, charge and repeat, you take down anything up close and tie up banshees and brutes so they dont take out your squishies

[john-in-france]

ABjerre wrote...

Zenning wrote...
In either case, these classes are doing their part, just differently than they normally do.  Hell, why not have the Infiltrator grab a shotgun, and be just as effective, just up close. 

Once again, if you're blaming Vanguards for "setting the pace", you can just as easily blame Infiltrators for setting an other pace.

Why would an infiltrator grab a shotgun and put himself at an unnecessary risk of getting killed, at the account of catering to some moron that could just as well be covering the flank?

The difference is that if a vanguard is setting the pace, it forces 3 people out of their optimal playstile. If 3 other players are setting the pace, it forces the vanguard to play defencively and not stroke his epeen constantly with superman charges.

KalilKareem wrote...
Well, the thing is I sorta wanted to play the match.

You cant always get what you want, sorry.

Depends on the vanguard. I play AV more like an AA, and spam stasis bubble all the time. Charge comes into play to protect team mates, quick revive and helping mop up the grunts at the end of each wave.

I have had people leave the lobby after I sign in...just because I'm playing a vanguard.

Not all of us go nuts.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Zenning wrote...

Shut the hell up.

Thank yo-

No, that'll get me modded.


Look, we get that a lot of Vanguards suck ass.  But plenty are awesome, so stop with the random Vanguard bashing.  Seriously.  You're not cool.

Thank you.

Yes, there are many Vanguards who suck, but there's people from all classes who suck. Blaming any one class for this is really counterintuitive, because not only bad players use Vanguards. Plenty of good novaguards, for example, team with other biotics to spam detonations, but most players just see a vanguard and think "CHARGENOVADIE! GET OUT OF MAH GAAAAAME!"

[InfamousResult]

eye basher wrote...

The only problem i have with vanguards is that 9 out of 10 suck and the chances of running into a suck vanguard are very high.

So what you're saying is.. It's harder to play than other classes, and a good Vanguard probably has more skill than most other players since those players would probably suck as a Vanguard. That sounds about right!

Thanks for the ego boost.

[Phazael]

I play my Asari and Krogan VGs in silver, very rarely. I am extremely careful and generally just follow the weaker guys too keep stuff off of their backs, while supporting with bubble (AVg) or sponging up damage (Krogan). I am in the vast minority, though, and I have seen tons of idiots who want to be superman all game long, leaving their team twisting in the wind. If you want to pay a Vg above bronze, then you had better be ready to be goalie for other people and not die to grabs. Besides the few who actually can cut it at gold don't play in PUGs anyhow.

[ol MISAKA lo]

Vanguards = garbage. plain as that. If there are 1000 vanguards and 100 of them are actually good, then it's my theory that they are on the PS3 or PC.

[bloodDragon80]

ol MISAKA lo wrote...

Vanguards = garbage. plain as that. If there are 1000 vanguards and 100 of them are actually good, then it's my theory that they are on the PS3 or PC.

.................................................







retard

[withneelandi]

See, a bad vanguard is a pain and sadly something about playing a vanguard seems to turn usually sensible players into loons (and I include myself in that).

That said, any class can be disruptive, an engineer spamming overload in a team of adepts, for example. The difference is that while most classes can disrupt some tactic or another vanguards have far more general tendency to be disruptive.

So yes all in all, all vanguards don't suck, but lots do.

[Phazael]

DaftArbiter wrote...

Zenning wrote...

Shut the hell up.

Thank yo-

No, that'll get me modded.


Look, we get that a lot of Vanguards suck ass.  But plenty are awesome, so stop with the random Vanguard bashing.  Seriously.  You're not cool.

Thank you.

Yes, there are many Vanguards who suck, but there's people from all classes who suck. Blaming any one class for this is really counterintuitive, because not only bad players use Vanguards. Plenty of good novaguards, for example, team with other biotics to spam detonations, but most players just see a vanguard and think "CHARGENOVADIE! GET OUT OF MAH GAAAAAME!"

You just highlighted our point.  The entire rest of the team is playing supporting cast for this jackass.  Why on earth do I want a VG detonating my biotics when the actual adepts get tremendous damage bonuses from the explosions that can level everything in one go?  Show me the bad biotic or infiltrator who gets the entire team wiped because they went and died halfway across the map.  Show me any non-VG or Krogan who dies because they thought they could get away with meleing a Banshee.  Show me any non VG who gets the time wiped because they died to a momentary lag spike or grenade detonation.

A bad Adept is, at worst, an AFK leech.  Even a mediocre VG is an excercise in clenching your butt and hoping they die early, so you can still three man the wave before the spawn points get too dorked up.  This is especially true of the human ones who all seem to think they are invincible and ragequit the minute the team stops catering to their playstyle.

[Adam2190]

I don't hate them, it just so happens that most people who play with them are usually a liability on silver and gold.

[samb]

I'll start by saying I love the vangaurd class.  Nothing lays waste to enemies like a vanguard.  They have the highest offensive potential in the game, bar none.  That being said I can understand why people don't like playing with them in gold.

It requires a lot of team work to do well.  And let's face it, team work in this game sucks.  Every time you see see people complaining about VGs stealing kills is an example of people not getting the concept of cooperative play or letting their egos get in the way of completing the mission.  It's not even just in regards to VGs, think of the times where you have two adepts on the team and they are off trying detonate their own biotic explosions when it is truth they they would be much faster if one set up and the other detonates.  It usually doesn't happen.  Or when two people are aiming for the same headshot.  TEAM WORK JUST SUCKS in this game, and that says more of the players rather than the class.

If no one is supporting the VG then it really can't perform to its potenial, and you will have to "lone wolf" it, or you will end up leeching and not contributing.  This puts the VG player in a catch-22.  If you have an adept (esp justicar) or sentinel you can vastly improve your team's offense just by following the VG around and setting up biotic explosions. 

In theory the class is solid, but other tecnical issues also hinder it.  Lag and glitches will sometimes make you unable to charge when you really really need to, you could end up in the floor or ceiling, nova just doesn't happen even though you are spamming the botton etc.  Until this is fixed the VG will be hit or miss and hence a possible liability. 

Just watch all the videos of people solo'ing gold (there are quite a few posted on this forum) to see that VGs are strong when used proporly.  I myself can solo silver to wave 8-9 without using any consumables.

tl;dr version: no team work and technical issues hinder the VG

Modifié par samb, 18 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[ol MISAKA lo]

bloodDragon80 wrote...

ol MISAKA lo wrote...

Vanguards = garbage. plain as that. If there are 1000 vanguards and 100 of them are actually good, then it's my theory that they are on the PS3 or PC.

.................................................

retard

Oh I'm retarded? Okay kid you'r so cool.

Modifié par ol MISAKA lo, 18 avril 2012 - 05:59 .

[samb]

Phazael wrote...

You just highlighted our point.  The entire rest of the team is playing supporting cast for this jackass.  Why on earth do I want a VG detonating my biotics when the actual adepts get tremendous damage bonuses from the explosions that can level everything in one go?  Show me the bad biotic or infiltrator who gets the entire team wiped because they went and died halfway across the map.  Show me any non-VG or Krogan who dies because they thought they could get away with meleing a Banshee.  Show me any non VG who gets the time wiped because they died to a momentary lag spike or grenade detonation.

A bad Adept is, at worst, an AFK leech.  Even a mediocre VG is an excercise in clenching your butt and hoping they die early, so you can still three man the wave before the spawn points get too dorked up.  This is especially true of the human ones who all seem to think they are invincible and ragequit the minute the team stops catering to their playstyle.

Ahhh a beautiful display of lack of coopertative spirit.  Judging but this post you'd think we were playing a co-op multiplayer.... oh wait we are.

Like I said in another post, team work just sucks.  It's more the people that play this game than the VG.  Thank you for illustrating my point Phazael.  While I don't agree with you I like that you prove me right.

Modifié par samb, 18 avril 2012 - 06:03 .

[bloodDragon80]

ol MISAKA lo wrote...

bloodDragon80 wrote...

ol MISAKA lo wrote...

Vanguards = garbage. plain as that. If there are 1000 vanguards and 100 of them are actually good, then it's my theory that they are on the PS3 or PC.

.................................................

retard

Oh I'm retarded? Okay kid you'r so cool.

i r kewl? omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg

[marshalleck]

I just kicked a vanguard from my lobby as punishment for this thread.

[samb]

marshalleck wrote...

I just kicked a vanguard from my lobby as punishment for this thread.

And they told me people on the PC were more civil.....
Guess players on all platforms sucks equally......

[Hyperglide]

nwz wrote...

Hyperglide wrote...

Hello, this is Commander Shephard and this is my favourite thread in the BSN.

I thought Shepard was dead?

@Zenning: Yes. A vanguard who knows what to do, is quite pleasant to play with.

Only in your mind.