282 réponses à ce sujet

[veramis]

For those who don't know much about how to play vanguard, I wrote up some tips.

http://social.biowar.../index/10386537

I should add in my dozens of vanguard games on silver and gold, I've never been in 2nd place in score, always first.

[QCteamkill]

I hate vanguards, I even hate the "good" vanguards more because of such wasted potential ...

Bioware should make lobbies with more settings, like, accepting vanguards or not.

Oh, or humans/any race only, or basic weapons (avenger, mantis, katana) only, that'd be a little fun... but I'm drifting again.

[InfamousResult]

I even hate the "good" vanguards more because of such wasted potential ..

"Wasted potential"?

A good vanguard has a higher damage output over time than most, if not any, other classes. TERRIBLE Vanguards get higher scores for their damage output in games, even when they keep getting dropped- GOOD Vanguards get higher scores WITHOUT getting dropped. If anything, the other classes are wasted Vanguard potential- if they could all be Host, at least.

[Phattee Buttz]

Bronze games don't matter and Gold games benefit from a skilled Vanguard who can work with the team, but if you're in the lobby for a Silver game and you see a Vanguard, then you're better off looking for another game. Most likely they'll be one of the terrible ones and they'll die a few times each wave until they quit around wave 5 or 6. Or there's a tiny chance that they're one of the few who've mastered the art of pressing two buttons, and then they'll end up hogging all the kills.

Seriously, there is no reason to put up with a Vanguard in a Silver gaime.

Modifié par Phattee Buttz, 18 avril 2012 - 06:21 .

[jaydubs67]

A collection of vanguard gold videos:


Sabresandiego's gold speedrun with human vanguard  

Godless Paladin's gold solo with Asari vanguard  

A human vanguard and drell adept pair 

My own gold solo vs reapers as human vanguard

[Phattee Buttz]

jaydubs67 wrote...
My own gold solo vs reapers as human vanguard

That's the thing. In a team-based game, there SHOULDN'T EVEN EXIST a class that can solo. It's like having an MMO with a class that can clear the hardest dungeon by pressing only two buttons.

[jalford1980]

vanguards are awesome when played right. In fact, I play one often, and do quite well with all the races. But when im playing an infiltrator....I HATE THEM. HATE EM!! All the damn camera shaking and things getting knocked down. Drives me crazy. Its so bad, anytime I have a vanguard in the group, I exclusivly play my human claymore infiltrator so I dont have to deal with it.

Modifié par jalford1980, 18 avril 2012 - 06:24 .

[GGW KillerTiger]

 I rock asari vangaurd using vindicator and i approve of this message 

[ol MISAKA lo]

samb wrote...

Phazael wrote...

You just highlighted our point.  The entire rest of the team is playing supporting cast for this jackass.  Why on earth do I want a VG detonating my biotics when the actual adepts get tremendous damage bonuses from the explosions that can level everything in one go?  Show me the bad biotic or infiltrator who gets the entire team wiped because they went and died halfway across the map.  Show me any non-VG or Krogan who dies because they thought they could get away with meleing a Banshee.  Show me any non VG who gets the time wiped because they died to a momentary lag spike or grenade detonation.

A bad Adept is, at worst, an AFK leech.  Even a mediocre VG is an excercise in clenching your butt and hoping they die early, so you can still three man the wave before the spawn points get too dorked up.  This is especially true of the human ones who all seem to think they are invincible and ragequit the minute the team stops catering to their playstyle.

Ahhh a beautiful display of lack of coopertative spirit.  Judging but this post you'd think we were playing a co-op multiplayer.... oh wait we are.

Like I said in another post, team work just sucks.  It's more the people that play this game than the VG.  Thank you for illustrating my point Phazael.  While I don't agree with you I like that you prove me right.

It's kind of hard to justify a class type when everyone I have ever seen play it was the upmost garbage.  I want to clarify that I may be good at sniping, but I am not Snip3down.  How can there be effective teamwork with a player who thinks he should be the farthest distance possible from his team to rack up jis point count, only to get dropped in the middle of the horde's bulk.  I then get annoyed when I try to get to his dying corpse in time, only to make it to see him get curb-stomped. followed by all their attention becoming focused on me.

I don't appreciate being called bad or that I don't have a co-operative gameplay style by these kids when I'm clearly working with the other players who are actually working together.  I can work with any other class fine, because they have some degree of cooperative abilities.  The VG is the only class that says from the gate that it's selfish and suicidal.Then there's the VG glitch that screws them over, effectively making them no different from an afk leecher at that point.

Point is, if there is a lack of cooperation in this game, it has alot to do with loners and rage-quitters who don't want to work with their team, not the rest of the team being stuck with said player.  It's a joke to think otherwise.

[lmoggy]

i play all classes but vanguard is my favorite. i prefer to solo as vanguard as you just dont need teamates

[bloodDragon80]

Phattee Buttz wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...
My own gold solo vs reapers as human vanguard

That's the thing. In a team-based game, there SHOULDN'T EVEN EXIST a class that can solo. It's like having an MMO with a class that can clear the hardest dungeon by pressing only two buttons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqNkp83eI3c



every class F****** spams presses two buttons 

[sliverofamoon]

I just smile when I'm playing my Asari, and someone with a decent N7 lvl joins as a Vanguard. I paint targets all over the map, and let THEM explode them! Seriously, the other night, I ran across a GREAT Vanguard player in random golds, and he seriously hit everything I lit up for him, and we cleared random maps like nothing else.... when my EA connection dropped, I was seriously bummed.

[Ni7mare Shadow]

I don't understand why people have trouble understanding this. Most, myself included, HATE that lone wolf attitude people have. I don't care what class/race you are, if everyone is in the extraction zone and you are on the other side of the map trying to get the highest points, then of course people will be pissed. My last game some guy played a drell adept (never used biotic abilities what-so-ever) and must've thought she/he was playing a vanguard. They didn't help on any objectives, messed up the landing zone, and then had the audacity to throw insults my way for scoring higher than him despite the fact that I was helping with all objectives... Oh yeah, he also got downed at least 5 times on bronze...
I actually LOVE a good vanguard, they can keep the pressure off me while I'm doing the disabling objectives. It's quite unfortunate that such a stigma has been attached to this class.

[datako12]

Phattee Buttz wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...
My own gold solo vs reapers as human vanguard

That's the thing. In a team-based game, there SHOULDN'T EVEN EXIST a class that can solo. It's like having an MMO with a class that can clear the hardest dungeon by pressing only two buttons.

ummm, any class can solo. and infiltrators are actually better at soloing in some regards, like at lvl 1

[jaydubs67]

Phattee Buttz wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...
My own gold solo vs reapers as human vanguard

That's the thing. In a team-based game, there SHOULDN'T EVEN EXIST a class that can solo. It's like having an MMO with a class that can clear the hardest dungeon by pressing only two buttons.

Guess we shouldn't have infiltrators either then?  

Salarian infiltrator gold solo
Human infiltrator gold solo to wave 10
Infiltrator gold solo screenshot, fastest times discussion

[Phattee Buttz]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Phattee Buttz wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...
My own gold solo vs reapers as human vanguard

That's the thing. In a team-based game, there SHOULDN'T EVEN EXIST a class that can solo. It's like having an MMO with a class that can clear the hardest dungeon by pressing only two buttons.

Guess we shouldn't have infiltrators either then?  

Salarian infiltrator gold solo
Human infiltrator gold solo to wave 10
Infiltrator gold solo screenshot, fastest times discussion

That's right. Send 'em packing. Until the day when a Human Soldier can solo as easily as a Human Vanguard, no one should be able to solo.

[JMA22TB]

here's a solution I've found that works - CQC needs a partner. If you are a vanguard running off doing your thing by yourself of course no one is going to res you. If you have a partner the two of you can res each other if it goes sideways.

I like to bring my Batarian Soldier for that purpose. The combination is pretty nasty and I've found that the snipers actually have to move around (OMG!!). The whole partner CQC thing works out really well if you use good judgment.

[samb]

ol MISAKA lo wrote...
It's kind of hard to justify a class type when everyone I have ever seen play it was the upmost garbage.  I want to clarify that I may be good at sniping, but I am not Snip3down.  How can there be effective teamwork with a player who thinks he should be the farthest distance possible from his team to rack up jis point count, only to get dropped in the middle of the horde's bulk.  I then get annoyed when I try to get to his dying corpse in time, only to make it to see him get curb-stomped. followed by all their attention becoming focused on me.

I don't appreciate being called bad or that I don't have a co-operative gameplay style by these kids when I'm clearly working with the other players who are actually working together.  I can work with any other class fine, because they have some degree of cooperative abilities.  The VG is the only class that says from the gate that it's selfish and suicidal.Then there's the VG glitch that screws them over, effectively making them no different from an afk leecher at that point.

Point is, if there is a lack of cooperation in this game, it has alot to do with loners and rage-quitters who don't want to work with their team, not the rest of the team being stuck with said player.  It's a joke to think otherwise.

But if the vangaurd isn't getting the support he needs to be effective then what other option can he do?  Just sitt in cover like a gimped soldier?  Without support his only other option is to charge and do what he can.  And don't tell me people work together in this game. 

They don't. 

Not for pick up games anyway.  It didn't occur to you to follow the VG around and spam setup powers.  No you want your sniper kills the hell with him.  I have already given the 2 adept/sentinals example already.  Most people want to set up and detonate all by themselves when it would be more effective for one to set up and the other detonates.  The fact is most people care more for their points and kills rather than the team. 
"Why should that other adept get all the detonations?  I need to get mine!"
"Why should I help the VG who's putting himself into the fight when I can snipe?"

I'm not targeting you, just the general sentiment that is widespread.

[samb]

datako12 wrote...

Phattee Buttz wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...
My own gold solo vs reapers as human vanguard

That's the thing. In a team-based game, there SHOULDN'T EVEN EXIST a class that can solo. It's like having an MMO with a class that can clear the hardest dungeon by pressing only two buttons.

ummm, any class can solo. and infiltrators are actually better at soloing in some regards, like at lvl 1

A class being able to solo gold proves that they are viable in the right hands.  Your demonstration of an infiltrator doing it is unneeded because no one doubts how viable they are.

[Phazael]

He can stick to the camp and keep things like Phantoms, Pyros, and Hunters from getting in. He can act as a meat shield for the more frail classes when a mission requires fighting on the move. He can keep an eye on one of the approach lanes of one of the camps. Well, the Asari and Krogan ones can at least. Human (and Drell) are just derps with a gun at that point; a loose cannon waiting to drag the whole team down when their patience runs out.

Let me turn this around on you. Why the hell should three other people be covering you for ten waves, completely changing the way their class plays on the off chance that you might not die to a lag spike or bug out?

[jaydubs67]

Phattee Buttz wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

Phattee Buttz wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...
My own gold solo vs reapers as human vanguard

That's the thing. In a team-based game, there SHOULDN'T EVEN EXIST a class that can solo. It's like having an MMO with a class that can clear the hardest dungeon by pressing only two buttons.

Guess we shouldn't have infiltrators either then?  

Salarian infiltrator gold solo
Human infiltrator gold solo to wave 10
Infiltrator gold solo screenshot, fastest times discussion

That's right. Send 'em packing. Until the day when a Human Soldier can solo as easily as a Human Vanguard, no one should be able to solo.

Nerf all the things!  

Seriously, I would welcome a human soldier buff.  Hell, I've advocated for it.  What I am tired of though is the schizophrenic complaining, often in the same threads, that vanguards are both too powerful and completely unsuitable for gold.  Make up your minds about what is wrong with the class already.  

[Stardusk]

InfamousResult wrote...

I can understand why people are WARY of Vanguards. But it's the ridiculous kneejerk reaction to them that's pretty unacceptable.

I played a Gold match today- I was the Host, so I played Krogan Vanguard. No objections at the beginning of the match. But as soon as I move away from the group on the 1st Wave ( reiterate: 1st Wave, not an Objective Wave or even a later wave where the heavy enemies are coming in ), some guy turns on his mic and starts yelling at me to stay with everybody else because I'll get killed and they'll have to come rez me. Cussing and all.

By the end of the game, I had died a total of 2 times. He had died a total of 8 ( maybe more ) times, and DESPITE him being a complete jackwad over the mic, I would often BioCharge over to him and rez him. I remember getting the 10 Revive medal from that game because of him. No thank-you's either, just continuous complaints.

It's really a shame that people automatically blame Vanguards for everything, especially when they, themselves, are the ones bringing the team down.

Krogan are different.

[Phazael]

Also, with regards to teamwork, who is being the team player? The adept who works out a rotation with the other adept or sentinal to chain explosions that drop entire groups at a time and cover the main approach to the camp, or the Novaspammer who leaves a trail of wounded trash behind, just so others can pad his useless score for him? As an adept or justicar, I immediately start working with any other biotic and infiltrators, even the terrible ones, will generally be doing damage to dangerous targets and not getting themselves into trouble. Neither are making the screen shake every five seconds, making headshots needlessly difficult.

[MetalMax210]

How the hell am I supposed to follow a vanguard if he charges across the map on the first enemy he spots and ,by the time I get close to his position, he already died and been curb-stomped?

[samb]

Phazael wrote...

He can stick to the camp and keep things like Phantoms, Pyros, and Hunters from getting in. He can act as a meat shield for the more frail classes when a mission requires fighting on the move. He can keep an eye on one of the approach lanes of one of the camps. Well, the Asari and Krogan ones can at least. Human (and Drell) are just derps with a gun at that point; a loose cannon waiting to drag the whole team down when their patience runs out.

Yes he could do that and be useless.  It would not be an effective use for them when others can do it better.  If having to choose to be a peice of furniture or killing a few things, then most would choose to be effective since better options are not open to them.  If they wanted to watch your back they can do that in spectator mode.

Let me turn this around on you. Why the hell should three other people be covering you for ten waves, completely changing the way their class plays on the off chance that you might not die to a lag spike or bug out?

Because that would be an effective use for them.  I have seen such a team clear gold in 15 minutes.  I have mentioned the lag and glitches but that can hardly be faulted to the player. 

It's about effectiviness.  Which is more effective is really what SHOULD be done.