282 réponses à ce sujet

[Phazael]

Zenning wrote...

Phazael wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

 I'm not sure why everyone is arguing: Vanguards are a tricky class to play well, and if you don't play them well you can make the game a lot harder for your team.
Learning Vanguard in Gold, I've ended more matches around wave 7 than any other class. I'm just starting to get good enough to make it to extraction each time, but only when the team is built to support the VGs style is that extraction made in decent time.

It's a niche class that requires a decent team build with it, imo, but when that build is in place and everyone knows what they're doing the VG is a biotic god!

Because only 1% of the VG player base are actually as good as the other 99% think they are and they want everyone else to play supporting cast for them at higher difficulty levels.  Carrying a bad member of ANY other class is a lot less frustrating than playing with even the average VG and most VG players are stubbornly opposed to adapting their playstyle.  They don't want to change and the rest of the playerbase does not want to waste their time trying sifting through the refuse for the few capable ones and failboating all the while.

Spawn camping.. Is not.. The only Viable.. Method..  To play.

Staying on the move, with a group is just as viable (and is in fact faster in many cases) Than just bunkering down, and killing things as they come to you.  PLEASE!  PLEASE! PLEASE! Stop blaming VG players for being "Stubbornly opposed to adapting their playstyle" if you obviously are too.

First off, there are maps where moving around is viable and even preferable on higher difficulty (Condor and Glacier come to mind), but even then it requires operating as a group that moves as a team and covers each other's blind spots.  Tell me were Captain Jackass Novaguard fits into this again?  Nearly every class has a way to fight on the move, but if you have the Novaguard you can basically bet money that he is going to break formation the first time he has a red targeting rectical.  Camping spawns is essential in some maps and most Hacking missions, however, so while you can move around on some maps, you always have to defend an area at some point.

Second, name me another class that requires the player to be the host in order to not have a large chance to sink the entire run, either by bug or lag.  I mean, if you guys are as good for gold as you say you are, then why all the fuss?  Just cue up with three other VGs and have at it.  Oh, wait, you actually need someone to capture objectives.... and revive you after you lag/screw up/eat a grenade ... and to trash talk to after you made everyone nervous by focusing on points all game instead of completing the mission.

Sure a lot of that is hyperbole, but you guys pretty much brought it on yourselves with how the bulk of the people play that class.  There is a time and a place for that kind of play and its called Bronze.  No one doing PUGs wants to take the risk, especially with the bugs and all the AFK leeches already in the mix.

[Dot.Shadow]

The main reason I don't like Vanguards, besides the fact that they usually run off and die on the other side of the map is that they shake my bloody sights and move targets around all the time. The game becomes so much more chaotic and less enjoyable with them around.

Oh yeah, they usually ignore objectives. That's annoying.

Modifié par Dot.Shadow, 18 avril 2012 - 11:37 .

[Zenning]

astheoceansblue wrote...

The problem is not only VGs, but players in general not kowing how to build team synergy.

I set up a Host to play VG on Ghost Vs Reapers on Gold, when two Salarian Engineers and an SI joined and I asked if anyone could change classes to help build a more effective team, I was told to change myself as everyone was playing what they wanted to.

Public games are mostly selfish, glory hunting cess pits of ego. I rarely find anyone willing to set up a team to effecively use my VG with, so I usually end up changing myself to fit the haphazard group that probably won't make it past wave 9 anyway...

You sound good enough to carry the team anyway.  And those three classes can easily work with the VG.  The Infiltrator picking enemies off, and reviving people who die, while the Engnineers work with the Vanguards to set up tech bursts killing every goddamn thing ever.  You should be able to get 2 explosions per charge + Nova.

[astheoceansblue]

Zenning wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

The problem is not only VGs, but players in general not kowing how to build team synergy.

I set up a Host to play VG on Ghost Vs Reapers on Gold, when two Salarian Engineers and an SI joined and I asked if anyone could change classes to help build a more effective team, I was told to change myself as everyone was playing what they wanted to.

Public games are mostly selfish, glory hunting cess pits of ego. I rarely find anyone willing to set up a team to effecively use my VG with, so I usually end up changing myself to fit the haphazard group that probably won't make it past wave 9 anyway...

You sound good enough to carry the team anyway.  And those three classes can easily work with the VG.  The Infiltrator picking enemies off, and reviving people who die, while the Engnineers work with the Vanguards to set up tech bursts killing every goddamn thing ever.  You should be able to get 2 explosions per charge + Nova.

Oh, in theroy... I just have a bad feeling everytime I meet a Salarian Engi in a pub Gold lobby. Perhaps it's all the FBW scrubs thinking they're boss and trying on the bigger boy's shoes? They end up karate kicking a shoe across the map into the back of my head while I'm just about to nova-cancel a Banshee's projectile.... metaphorically speaking, of course.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 18 avril 2012 - 11:44 .

[Zenning]

Phazael wrote...

First off, there are maps where moving around is viable and even preferable on higher difficulty (Condor and Glacier come to mind), but even then it requires operating as a group that moves as a team and covers each other's blind spots.  Tell me were Captain Jackass Novaguard fits into this again?  Nearly every class has a way to fight on the move, but if you have the Novaguard you can basically bet money that he is going to break formation the first time he has a red targeting rectical.  Camping spawns is essential in some maps and most Hacking missions, however, so while you can move around on some maps, you always have to defend an area at some point.

Wait what?  The Nova guard is the best goddamn class at killing on the move.  THE BEST GODDAMN class!  The trick is, they need to stay in view of the rest of the team, and need to know what's attacking the rest of the team.  A good Vanguard is a tank.  They will make sure the rest of the team doesn't get hit.  Period.  Once again, watch my goddamn video.  Notice how the Infiltrator is almost never actually being shot at?  Notice how I'm reviving people, and charging over to people who got left behind?  Notice how I never die (Execpt when reviving people), and am keeping enemies away from everybody?

Yeah.  That's the job of the Vanguard

Second, name me another class that requires the player to be the host in order to not have a large chance to sink the entire run, either by bug or lag.  I mean, if you guys are as good for gold as you say you are, then why all the fuss?  Just cue up with three other VGs and have at it.  Oh, wait, you actually need someone to capture objectives.... and revive you after you lag/screw up/eat a grenade ... and to trash talk to after you made everyone nervous by focusing on points all game instead of completing the mission.

There are none.  This is the worst part.  But, a good way to know the Vanguard doesn't suck, is to see that he's hostin'.  And err.. Striker Soliders are close, but not quite as bad.  That hardly makes teh Vanguard crappy.  And err..  No other class but the Infiltrator can do hacking objectives effectivly on their own.  But, they are the best class at defending them.  They don't need to take cover, and tehy can stagger eneies on the oppisite side of the map

Sure a lot of that is hyperbole, but you guys pretty much brought it on yourselves with how the bulk of the people play that class.  There is a time and a place for that kind of play and its called Bronze.  No one doing PUGs wants to take the risk, especially with the bugs and all the AFK leeches already in the mix.

I love hosting with pugs.  I have no trouble carrying the team the majroity of the time.  Or just staying back, and watching the flank if they're not complete idiots.  I also love it when I get a pug group that follows me around, and set up tech and biotic explosions while we wreck havoc everywhere.

Seriously, you're not giving a good Vanguard player nearly enough credit.

[astheoceansblue]

Zenning wrote...

Phazael wrote...

First off, there are maps where moving around is viable and even preferable on higher difficulty (Condor and Glacier come to mind), but even then it requires operating as a group that moves as a team and covers each other's blind spots.  Tell me were Captain Jackass Novaguard fits into this again?  Nearly every class has a way to fight on the move, but if you have the Novaguard you can basically bet money that he is going to break formation the first time he has a red targeting rectical.  Camping spawns is essential in some maps and most Hacking missions, however, so while you can move around on some maps, you always have to defend an area at some point.

Wait what?  The Nova guard is the best goddamn class at killing on the move.  THE BEST GODDAMN class!  The trick is, they need to stay in view of the rest of the team, and need to know what's attacking the rest of the team.  A good Vanguard is a tank.  They will make sure the rest of the team doesn't get hit.  Period.  Once again, watch my goddamn video.  Notice how the Infiltrator is almost never actually being shot at?  Notice how I'm reviving people, and charging over to people who got left behind?  Notice how I never die (Execpt when reviving people), and am keeping enemies away from everybody?

Yeah.  That's the job of the Vanguard

Second, name me another class that requires the player to be the host in order to not have a large chance to sink the entire run, either by bug or lag.  I mean, if you guys are as good for gold as you say you are, then why all the fuss?  Just cue up with three other VGs and have at it.  Oh, wait, you actually need someone to capture objectives.... and revive you after you lag/screw up/eat a grenade ... and to trash talk to after you made everyone nervous by focusing on points all game instead of completing the mission.

There are none.  This is the worst part.  But, a good way to know the Vanguard doesn't suck, is to see that he's hostin'.  And err.. Striker Soliders are close, but not quite as bad.  That hardly makes teh Vanguard crappy.  And err..  No other class but the Infiltrator can do hacking objectives effectivly on their own.  But, they are the best class at defending them.  They don't need to take cover, and tehy can stagger eneies on the oppisite side of the map

Sure a lot of that is hyperbole, but you guys pretty much brought it on yourselves with how the bulk of the people play that class.  There is a time and a place for that kind of play and its called Bronze.  No one doing PUGs wants to take the risk, especially with the bugs and all the AFK leeches already in the mix.

I love hosting with pugs.  I have no trouble carrying the team the majroity of the time.  Or just staying back, and watching the flank if they're not complete idiots.  I also love it when I get a pug group that follows me around, and set up tech and biotic explosions while we wreck havoc everywhere.

Seriously, you're not giving a good Vanguard player nearly enough credit.

Well played.

[Zenning]

I really wish firefox's spell check worked properly in the BSN forums.

I feel sad when rereading my posts..

[tvman099]

Dear non-vanguard players.

Stop shooting the enemies I'm doing my chain nova/charge on when they get to lower health. You getting the last shot in instead of me charging and getting my shields back gets me killed sometimes.

[astheoceansblue]

Zenning wrote...

I really wish firefox's spell check worked properly in the BSN forums.

I feel sad when rereading my posts..

Learn to think as you type as well as you VG and the world will be yours.

Spellcheck is the FBW/Geth of the written world...

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 18 avril 2012 - 11:56 .

[Fireflyx147]

Zenning wrote...
Yeah.  That's the job of the Vanguard

A damn shame that no Vanguard I've ever played with has actually played like that

[Lars10178]

I hate Bronze difficulty heroes, and vanguards are the most prevalent group that are try-hards on Bronze.

[astheoceansblue]

Fireflyx147 wrote...

Zenning wrote...
Yeah.  That's the job of the Vanguard

A damn shame that no Vanguard I've ever played with has actually played like that

TBH, the majority of of pugs are:

SI
Adepts

because the majority of players don't know how to play well past the cookie cutter or easy spam builds. Hell, I still see people talking down p.Mine on a SI and calling me a scrub for taking a 6/6/6/6/0 when I fancy some easy mode Gold.

Point being, if you want to find good VGs - or good players in general - then scour the forums for players like zenning and hope they're on your platform.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 19 avril 2012 - 12:00 .

[Zenning]

Lars10178 wrote...

I hate Bronze difficulty heroes, and vanguards are the most prevalent group that are try-hards on Bronze.

Way to be Hipster Hitler!

Modifié par Zenning, 19 avril 2012 - 12:00 .

[tvman099]

Lars10178 wrote...

I hate Bronze difficulty heroes, and vanguards are the most prevalent group that are try-hards on Bronze.

Funny you should mention that. I was trying to level up an adept earlier and kept hitting bronze games full of lvl 20 infiltrators and a few sentinels. No idea why they were bothering with it.

[wsandista]

tvman099 wrote...

Dear non-vanguard players.

Stop shooting the enemies I'm doing my chain nova/charge on when they get to lower health. You getting the last shot in instead of me charging and getting my shields back gets me killed sometimes.

Yeah snipers LOVE doing this. Then they complain that vanguards suck because they die too much. Snipers seem to be guilty of most  everything that people are complaining that vanguards do.

[Fireflyx147]

And Godwin's Law is proved yet again.

[Zenning]

wsandista wrote...

tvman099 wrote...

Dear non-vanguard players.

Stop shooting the enemies I'm doing my chain nova/charge on when they get to lower health. You getting the last shot in instead of me charging and getting my shields back gets me killed sometimes.

Yeah snipers LOVE doing this. Then they complain that vanguards suck because they die too much. Snipers seem to be guilty of most  everything that people are complaining that vanguards do.

Personally, it's impossible for an Infiltrator to tell who you're going to charge at, just like it's impossible to tell who the Infiltrator is going to shoot at.  It happens, but if you're good enough, you'll know that if somebody can shoot you.. You can charge them.

And if they can't..  They're already dead.

[Greystone]

I've just started playing my vanguards more lately and have started to get a feel for them.

Instead of rambo'ing anything in sight I take note of what kind of enemies they are, how many there are, if they are near a blind corner where a stronger enemy might pop out and gib me and if I charge them how that will improve my position.

That and realizing having a very fast recharge rate trumps all else on a vanguard IMO because of barrier recharging.

I've started applying these tactics and have been utterly raping with the class on silver and with a little more practice and consideration I'm pretty sure I can be useful on gold with one too.

Basically it seems to me that vanguards appear very haphazard because they port all over the place, but a good vanguard basically won't die anymore than other team mates if he actually thinks about why he's about to charge an enemy.

[tvman099]

Zenning wrote...

wsandista wrote...

tvman099 wrote...

Dear non-vanguard players.

Stop shooting the enemies I'm doing my chain nova/charge on when they get to lower health. You getting the last shot in instead of me charging and getting my shields back gets me killed sometimes.

Yeah snipers LOVE doing this. Then they complain that vanguards suck because they die too much. Snipers seem to be guilty of most  everything that people are complaining that vanguards do.

Personally, it's impossible for an Infiltrator to tell who you're going to charge at, just like it's impossible to tell who the Infiltrator is going to shoot at.  It happens, but if you're good enough, you'll know that if somebody can shoot you.. You can charge them.

And if they can't..  They're already dead.

It's quite easy to tell who I'm going to charge at. I'm standing right next to whoever it is.

[Zenning]

tvman099 wrote...

Zenning wrote...

wsandista wrote...

tvman099 wrote...

Dear non-vanguard players.

Stop shooting the enemies I'm doing my chain nova/charge on when they get to lower health. You getting the last shot in instead of me charging and getting my shields back gets me killed sometimes.

Yeah snipers LOVE doing this. Then they complain that vanguards suck because they die too much. Snipers seem to be guilty of most  everything that people are complaining that vanguards do.

Personally, it's impossible for an Infiltrator to tell who you're going to charge at, just like it's impossible to tell who the Infiltrator is going to shoot at.  It happens, but if you're good enough, you'll know that if somebody can shoot you.. You can charge them.

And if they can't..  They're already dead.

It's quite easy to tell who I'm going to charge at. I'm standing right next to whoever it is.

Do you play on the PC?  Because if you play on the PC, finding an other target to charge isn't that difficult.  It requires very impeccable timing to actually hit them at the exact moment before you were about to charge.  Because if they kill em before your nova ends, you should have no problem finding an other target.

[InfamousResult]

-you guys pretty much brought it on yourselves with how the bulk of the people-

Sounds like racism.

Racist.

Bigot.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "YOU GUYS", HUH? GENERALIZING BIGOTTY RACIST JACKWAD, HUH?

[tvman099]

Zenning wrote...

Do you play on the PC?  Because if you play on the PC, finding an other target to charge isn't that difficult.  It requires very impeccable timing to actually hit them at the exact moment before you were about to charge.  Because if they kill em before your nova ends, you should have no problem finding an other target.

I'm not sure what platform has to do with anything since it all plays the same, but I'm well aware that finding a new target isn't difficult most of the time. I'm merely pointing out that I've had my Snipey McHideInTheCornerLikeA**** teammates get me killed from time to time by shooting things I'm in the process of attacking and killing them before I can use them to get shields back. Normally death occurs by random Geth Prime shot from across the map or something of the sort.

Modifié par tvman099, 19 avril 2012 - 12:12 .

[comrade8472]

tl/dr entire thread I am deeply sorry...

when I play the krogan Vanguard almost everytime I die is rushing to revive the nonvanguard that rushed into the killzone of the enemy... "almost" every time that I try to stick with the team they go rushing off to get mowed down.

EDit for spelling and grammer

Modifié par comrade8472, 19 avril 2012 - 12:15 .

[Zenning]

tvman099 wrote...

Zenning wrote...

Do you play on the PC?  Because if you play on the PC, finding an other target to charge isn't that difficult.  It requires very impeccable timing to actually hit them at the exact moment before you were about to charge.  Because if they kill em before your nova ends, you should have no problem finding an other target.

I'm not sure what platform has to do with anything since it all plays the same, but I'm well aware that finding a new target isn't difficult most of the time. I'm merely pointing out that I've had my Snipey McHideInTheCornerLikeA**** teammates get me killed from time to time by shooting things I'm in the process of attacking and killing them before I can use them to get shields back. Normally death occurs by random Geth Prime shot from across the map or something of the sort.

It takes more time to change targets with the 360 or PS3 because of the max sensitivity being lower.  This would get ya killed.  On the PC, it isn't as big of an issue.