This post is going to explore for every weapon the overall effectiveness of taking either AP mod or Extended barrel (on some guns you are better off with both of course) Mainly looking at effectiveness vs armor with both as a deciding factor in silver and gold.
It is up to the individual player to decide if the utility of cover/guardian shield piercing is worth less damage is some cases. .
I'll give my thoughts on each weapon, but that is just my opinion and while I'm not infallible it generally isn't terrible advice.
A quick look at armor damage reduction first
5 is minimum damage
Armor reduces damage by
15 in bronze (Ap Lvl 5 reduces armor score by 9.75, so the armor takes 5.25 damage off in bronze)
30 in silver (AP lvl 5 reduces armor score by 19.5, so the armor takes 10.5 damage off in silver)
50 in gold (Ap Lvl 5 reduces armor score by 32.5, so the armor takes 17.5 damage off in gold.)
Armor Piercing mod and AP ammo stack, you can reduce armor score completely with both.
AP ammo II gives +20% damage and -65% armor - basically combines the traits of both AP mod V and EB mod V, so if you have a large supply of AP ammo pick whatever mods you like. Warp ammo also has the same effect to a lesser degree, more enhanced damage and -armor.
To calculate dps for each value below, you must multiply it by the weapons rounds per second. I will put this number in [brackets] so it is easy to find (to calculate Turian Marksman Dps vs Armor just do the equation to find dps and then multiply it by 1.5 - because who doesn't go full fire rate eh?) To Find headshot damage multiply the weapon damage by 250%
(For reference here is a google docs spreadsheet with all enemies health/shield/armor/barrier amounts MP enemies. Thanks goes to tangster for the link)
So Starting with the AR's (all weapons are assumed level ten, base weapon damage is used and all mods are assumed level 5)
Avenger [8.33 rounds per second] (I'll show the math and formula for this one and I'll do it short wise for all the others)
48.2 Damage Per Bullet [401.5dps] (DPB from now on) breaks down into
18.2 DPB vs armor in Silver [151.606dps] and 5 DPB in Gold [41.65dps]
With Armor Piercing Mod (-65% armor score)
37.7 dpb in silver [305.71dps] and 30.7 dpb [247.40dps] in gold
With Extended Barrel V = 60.25 DPB [501.8825dps] (+25% DPB)
Vs Armor - Silver = 30.25 [251.98dps] Gold = 10.25 [85.38dps]
With Both - Silver = 49.75 [406.0875] Gold = 42.75 [334dps]
My personal verdict - Armor Piercing (I personally always go AP+Extended Thermal Clips)
Revenant [10.83rps] 79.5 dpb - Silver = 49.5 dpb Gold = 29.5 dpb
AP mod - Silver = 69dpb Gold = 62dpb
EB mod 99.375 dpb - Silver = 69.375 Gold = 49.375
With both - S 88.875 G 81.875
Verdict - Ap mod wins again, 1.375 dpb is not worth it on silver and on gold -12 dpb is definitely not worth it
Mattock [7.5 rps] 117.8dpb - Silver = 87.8dpb Gold = 67.8dpb
AP mod - Silver = 107.3dpb Gold = 100.3dpb
EB mod 147.25dpb - Silver = 117.25 Gold = 97.25dpb
With Both - S 136.75 G 129.75
Verdict, EB because of more damage to everything and more damage vs armor on silver. But if you like being able to pierce walls the drop off isn't severe enough to make a massive difference.
GPR 30.1dpb [15rps] (might not bother with some of the weakest guns, most people are smart enough to know not to use them against armor ever.)
Silver = 5dpb Gold = 5dpb
Ap Mod - Silver = 19.6dpb Gold = 12.6dpb
EB 37.625dpb - Silver = 7.625dpb Gold = 5dpb
With Both - S 27.125 G 20.125
Verdict - This one and most other sub 40dpb weapons suck against armor and this is no different. If you have to use it vs armor always go with the ap mod as the extra 7 damage from the barrel isn't enough to help you vs everything while any extra damage vs armor can only help you.
Phaeston 47.6dpb [10rps] - Silver = 17.6dpb Gold = 5dpb
AP - Silver = 37.1 Gold = 30.1
EB 59.5dpb - Silver = 29.5 Gold = 9.5dpb
With both - S 49 G 42
Verdict - AP mod wins overall, but EB is not a terrible choice to take on silver runs.
Vindicator 78.0dpb {*3 - 234} [9.16rps] S = 48dpb {144} G = 28dpb {84}
AP - S = 67.5dpb {199.5} G = 60.5dpb {178.5}
EB 97.5dpb {292.5} - S = 67.5 {202.5} G = 47.5dpb {142.5}
With both - S 89 {267} G 80 {240}
Verdict - I'm beginning to see a trend here in the low-mid powered weapons, AP mod wins overall but EB works in silver.
Saber 486.2dpb [1.33rps] - S = 456.2dpb G = 436.2dpb
AP - S = 475.7dpb G = 468.7
EB 607.75dpb - S = 577.75 G = 557.75
With both - S 597.25 G 590.25
Verdict - Overwhelmingly EB, but that was pretty obvious I think to most people. I'm pretty sure every gun over 200 dpb will benefit more from EB than from AP from a damage standpoint at least.
Falcon AKA Da Thumper 349.0 [.83rps] - S = 319 G = 299
AP - S = 338.5 G = 331.5
EB 436.25 - S = 406.25 G = 386.25
With both - S 425.75 G 418.75
Verdict - EB all the way, not much to say here.
Striker AKA Usas-12 180.9 [4.58rps] - S = 150.9 G = 130.9
AP - S = 170.4 G = 163.4
EB 226.125 - S = 196.125 G = 176.125
With both - S 215.625 G 208.625
Verdict - Never a reason to equip AP on this guy.
Heavy Pistols
Predator [8.33rps] 73.5 - S = 43.5 G = 23.5
AP - S = 63 G = 58
EB 91.875 - S = 61.875 G = 41.875
With both - S 81.375 G 74.375
Verdict - Not surprising at all. AP mod overall but the difference in silver is nil.
Phalanx [4.16rps] 143.5 - S = 113.5 G = 93.5
AP - S = 133 G = 126
EB 179.375 - S = 149.375 G = 129.375
With Both - S 168.875 G 161.875
Verdict - Surprising, I always used AP over EB but now I'm probably going to change that.
Carnifex [1.66rps] 345.1 - S = 315.1 G = 295.1
AP - S = 334.6 G = 327.6
EB 431.375 - S = 401.375 G = 381.375
Both - S 420.875 G 413.875
Verdict - EB all the way.
Paladin [1.66rps] 531.1 - S = 501.1 G = 481.1
AP - S = 520.6 G = 513.6
EB 663.875 - S = 633.875 G = 613.875
Both - S 653.375 G 646.375
Verdict - Look at this monster, why even use a sniper rifle eh? I would probably just use both since the max thermal clip mod only gives you 2 more bullets.
Eagle [6.66rps] 83.8 - S = 53.8 G = 33.8
AP - S = 73.3 G = 66.3
EB 104.75 - S = 74.75 G = 54.75
Both - S 94.25 G 87.25
Verdict - This gun STILL needs a buff
Scorpion 469 - S = 439 G = 419
AP - S = 458.5 G = 451.5
EB 586.25 - S = 556.25 G = 536.25
Both - S 575.75 G 568.75
For the talon and other shotguns I'll be using their per pellet damage to calculate, I will post their total damage in {}
Talon [1.25rps] 117.1 {702.6} - S = 87.1 {522.6} G = 67.1 {402.6}
AP - S = 106.6 {639.6} G = 99.6 {597.6}
EB 146.375 {878.25} - S = 116.375 {698.25} G = 96.375 {578.25}
Both - S135.875 {815.25} G 128.875 {773.25}
Verdict - I almost always run AP vs derperus to deal with guardians, but I might just take both and deal with the smaller clip size instead. I ****in love this gun.
For the arc pistol Ill use uncharged damage and put charged damage in {} (Its charge damage multiplier is x6)
Arc Pistol [9.16rps] 87.7 {526.2} - S = 57.7 {346.2} G = 37.7 {226.2}
AP - S = 77.2 {463.2} G = 70.2 {421.2}
EB 109.625 {657.75} - S = 79.625 {477.75} G = 59.625 {357.75}
Both - S 99.125 {594.75} G 78.5 {552.75}
Verdict - I had never given this gun it's fair chance, but it looks like it can rival the carnifex for power while also having a lower damage to fall back on in a hurry. EB mod for sure on this one.
Sniper Rifles - I'm only going to post the mantis from among the bolt actions/black widow as every other one pierces armor natively (so EB should be one of your choices naturally). The kishok does not pierce anything except for guardian shields innately so I will post that one as it is a valid comparison.
Viper [1.16rps] 286.7 - S = 256.7 G = 236.7
AP - S = 276.2 G = 269.2
EB 358.375 - S = 328.375 G = 308.375
Both - S 347.875 G 340.875
Verdict - Not my favorite sniper in the world, but it can work if you are persistent and good. EB all the way.
Mantis [fires once every three seconds for an effective fire rate of .33rps] 769.5 - S = 749.5 G = 719.5
AP - S = 759 G = 752
EB 961.875 - S = 931.875 G = 911.875
Both - S 951.375 G 944.375
Verdict - Unless you have a low level of this, or find yourself running out of ammo constantly there is no reason except hating smoke screens not to use both.
Incisor [7.5rps] 93.3 {*3 - 279.9 }- S = 63.3 {189.9} G = 43.3 {129.9}
AP - S = 82.8{248.4} G = 75.8 {227.4}
EB 116.625 {349.875} - S = 86.625 {259.875} G = 66.625 {199.875}
Both - S 106.125 {318.375} G 99.125 {297.375}
Verdict - Same as the mantis, if you have to use it - use both mods for best effect.
Raptor [9.16rps] 97.7- S = 67.7 G = 47.7
AP - S = 87.7 G = 80.7
EB 122.125 - S = 92.125 G = 72.125
Both - S 111.625 G 104.625
Verdict - As with the other two, I have always used both and had a good time with the gun.
Valiant [1.66rps] 396.5 - S = 366.5 G = 346.5
AP - S = 386 G = 379
EB 495.625 - S = 465.625 G = 445.625
Both - S 485.125 G 478.125
Verdict - I personally do not have the weapon, but I would use both.
Widow 1083 [.33rps] - S 1053 G 1033
AP - S 1073.5 G 1066.5
EB 1353.75 - S 1323.75 G 1303.75
Both - S 1343.25 G 1336.25
Black Widow 642.6 [1rps] - S 612.6 G 592.6
AP - S 632.1 G 625.1
EB 803.25 - S 773.25 G 753.25
Both - S 792.75 G 785.75
Javelin 1288.1 [.33rps] - S 1258.1 G 1238.1
AP - S 1277.6 G 1270.6
EB 1610.125 - S 1580.125 G 1560.125
Both - S 1599.625 G 1592.625
Indra 78.2 [8.33rps] - S 48.2 G 28.2
AP - S 67.7 G 60.7
EB 97.75 - S 67.75 G 47.75
Both - S 87.25 G 80.25
Kishok AKA Graal with a scope Notes thanks to Peddroelmz
- ignores armor DR (like GPS)
- ignores shield gatting (like GPS)
- has a *3 HS modifier (this coupled with the relatively high base damage and the shield gate ignoring makes it very effective on gold)
- uses a continous charge modifier (also like GPS) (from 1 to 1.5) ...Releasing trigger before full charge results in a partialy charged shot ...This also means the weapon will only do consistent//repetable damage per shot at full charge(relevant for testing) ...
- RANDOMLY DOES TRIPLE DAMAGE regardless of charge level - reported against certain monster types (ravager during my tests, brute on Tangster's videos , banhsee reported by Elecbender )
Shotguns - Damage per pellet {Total Damage = Base*8 pellets} [Rounds per second]
Katana 60.2 {481.6} [1rps] - S 30.2 {241.6} G 10.2 {91.6}
AP - S 49.7 {397.6} G 42.7 {341.6}
EB 75.25 {602} - S 45.25 {362} G 25.25 {202}
Both - S 64.75 {518} G 59.75 {478}
Verdict - I generally always have extended barrel and smart choke, but for some of these I might make the switch to smart choke/AP or AP/EB.
Eviserator 80.7 {645.6} [.8rps] - S 50.7 {405.6} G 30.7 {245.6}
AP - S 70.2 {561.6} G 63.2 {505.6}
EB 100.875 {807} - S 70.875 {567} G 50.875 {407}
Both - S 90.375 {724} G 83.375 {667}
Scimitar 44.2 {353.6} [1.66rps] - S 14.2 {113.6} G 5 {40}
AP - S 33.7 {269.6} G 26.7 {213.6}
EB 55.2 {442} - S 25.2 {201.6} G 5.2 {41.6}
Both - S 44.7 {357.6} G 37.7 {301.6}
Disciple 57.8 {462.4} [1.25rps] - S 27.8{222.4} G 7.8 {62.4}
AP - S 47.3 {378.4} G 40.3 {322.4}
EB 72.25 {578} - S 42.25 {338} G 22.25 {178}
Both - S 61.25 {494} G 54.75 {438}
Wraith 127.8 {1022.4} [.8rps] - S 97.8 {782.4} G 77.8 {622.4}
AP - S 117.3 {938.4} G 110.3 {882.4}
EB 159.75 - S 129.75 {1038} G 109.75 {878}
Both - S149.25 {1194} G 142.375 {1138}
Crusaider(Slug shotgun) ]608.3 [1.33rps] - S 578.3 G 558.3
AP - S 597.8 G 590.8
EB 760.375 - S 730.375 G 710.375
Both - S 749.875 G 742.875
Claymore 206 {1648} [.33rps] - S 176 {1408} G 156 {1248}
AP - S 195.5 {1564} G 188.5 {1508}
EB 257.5 {2060} - S 227.5 {1820} G 207.5 {1660}
Both - S 247 {1976} G 240 {1920}
GPS (Uncharged)
892.7
Geth Plasma Shotgun Notes(again, peddroelmz):
- Fully charged shots do listed weapon damage (100% for shot 1, 30% for the other 2 )
- visually fires 3 projectiles
- Ammo power damage applies only to the first shot
- Ingores armor DR
- Cannot score head shots
- Ignores shield gating mechanic
- GPS gets continuous damage increase (up to max damage at full charge) as you hold the fire button down. Snap shots (minimum fire button hold down) have a ~ 0.45 % modifier (as you hold the fire button down the weapon charges - at full charge that modifier reaches maximum value 1 , releasing the fire button before fully charged will do partially charged damage (between snap shot damage and fully charged damage)
Graal Spike Thrower (Uncharged)
600
Graal Notes (thanks to peddroelmz):
[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">-Graal appears to do damage over time for 1 sec, unsure if this means that overall it will do double damage. If someone can verify this? ]Confirmed incorrect, uncharged Graal does not do DoT.[/color]
- Graal ignores armor DR
- Graal fires 6 blades
- Graal fully charged shots double base weapon damage (as a consequence they also double ammo power damage)
Smgs - This section will be a bit different due to smgs not having an AP mod. I will instead use the statistics of AP ammo lvl 2 (same armor reduction, same penetration characteristics and +20% enhanced damage) Because almost everyone is going to take extended thermal clips and heatsink lvl five I will post only the stats with AP ammo on, the damage % difference between AP ammo lvl 2 and EB is 5% so it will be EXTREMELY close in most cases.
Tempest [10.833rps] 59.4 - S 29.4 G 9.4
Ap ammo II 71.25 - S 60.75 G 53.75
Shuriken [18.33rps] 48.3 {*6 round burst = 289.8 } - S 18.3 {109.8} G 5 {30}
Ap ammo II 58 {348} - S 47.5 {285} G 40.5 {243}
Hurricane [10rps] 128.1 - S 98.1 G 78.1
Ap ammo II 153.75 - S 143.25 G 136.25
Can you say fully automatic phalanx with 72 rounds?HOLY ****!!!
Hornet [16.66rps] 67.2 {*3 - 201.6 } - S 37.2 {111.6} G 17.2 {51.6}
Ap ammo II 80.75 {242} - S 70.25 {210.5} G 63.25 {189.75}
Locust [9.16rps] 42.8 - S 12.8 G 5
Ap ammo II 51.5 - S 41 G 34
Geth Smg [13.33rps] 20.1 - S 5 G 5
Ap ammo II 24.12 - S 13.62 G 6.62
The Formula
Without AP mod subtract 30 from base damage for silver and 50 for gold.
With Ap mod subtract 10.5 for silver and 17.5 for gold
To get EB number just multiply the base damage by 1.25 then proceed normally
Poekel was kind enough to post the breakpoints where EB surpasses AP
Poekel wrote...
It might be simpler to calculate the breaking points and then just look up if you're below or above it.
Assuming lvl 5 mods the math would be:
Damage reduced by AP vs EP:
Bronze: 15 * 0,65 = 9,25
Silver: 30 * 0,65 = 19,5
Gold: 50 * 0,65 = 32,5
These are the values (x) the extra damage from EB has to exceed to be better than AP. Formula to calculate the breaking point would be x / 0,25 = Breaking point.
Bronze: 9,25 / 0,25 = 37
Silver: 19,5 / 0,25 = 78
Gold: 32,5 / 0,25 = 130
If you equip AP Ammo, x will be Armor * (1-armor reduction):
Lvl 1 AP Ammo:
Bronze: 15 * 0,5 = 7,5 -> 7,5 / 0,25 = 30
Silver: 30 * 0,5 = 15 -> 15 / 0,25 = 60
Gold: 50 * 0,5 = 25 -> 25 / 0,25 = 100
Lvl 2 AP Ammo:
Bronze: 15 * 0,35 = 5,25 -> 21
Silver: 30 * 0,35 = 10,5 -> 42
Gold: 50 * 0,35 = 17,5 -> 70
Lvl 3 AP AMMO:
Bronze: 15 * 0,3 = 4,5 -> 18
Silver: 30 * 0,3 = 9 -> 36
Gold :50 * 0,3 = 15 -> 60
EB will be better when the base weapon damage is above (Bronze, Silver, Gold):
No Ammo: 37, 78, 130
AP Ammo 1: 30, 60, 100
AP Ammo 2: 21, 42, 70
AP Ammo 3: 18, 36, 60
Modifié par Manuel La Bor, 18 mai 2012 - 01:03 .
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