134 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabresandiego]

You should add in that if you want to use a SMG as a primary, AP ammo is almost a requirement, and makes some of them absolute beasts. Perhaps show the math on submachine guns with AP ammo.

[What it Dookie]

Warp Ammo gives a better bonus than AP Ammo. I'm pretty sure that AP gives a 30% damage bonus and Warp a 35% bonus

Modifié par What it Dookie, 19 avril 2012 - 08:17 .

[Manuel La Bor]

Trakarg wrote...

Am I seriously the only person that likes using both? D:

((Except in special cases like the geth plasma shotty)

I like using both, but the problem is that you lose out on 80% more damage per clip if you forgo ETC's, I really don't want to do the math as It looks like a tedious job - but I think 80% more bullets with one of the two is generally better than normal sized clips with both. Though with some weapons that have small clipsize already you can use both and profit I believe. 

[Manuel La Bor]

What it Dookie wrote...

Warp Ammo gives a better bonus than AP Ammo. I'm pretty sure that AP gives a 30% damage bonus and Warp a 35% bonus

Ah, but AP ammo further reduces armor score - 

Lvl 1 ap ammo reduces armor damage reduction by 50% which is 15 for silver and 25 for gold
lvl 2 reduces it by 65% which is = to AP mod V 19.5 for silver and 32.5 for gold
lvl 3 ap ammo reduces armor score by 70% which is 22.5 in silver and 37.5 in gold

Warp ammo has the same effect but much less drastic
Lvl 1 is 25% armor reduction  7.5 in silver and 12.5 in gold
lvl 2 is 35%  10.5 in silver and 17.5 in gold
lvl 3 is 50% (= to AP ammo lvl 1) 15 in silver and 25 for gold. 

I would say that they are about equal, AP has more armor reduction but warp has more enhanced damage percnet

[Manuel La Bor]

Sabresandiego wrote...

You should add in that if you want to use a SMG as a primary, AP ammo is almost a requirement, and makes some of them absolute beasts. Perhaps show the math on submachine guns with AP ammo.

It's not a bad Idea, After I get home from work and get cracking on the AP+EB numbers for all the rest Ill work SMg's in there as well. 

[Manuel La Bor]

 

lolspawn wrote...

ty for list. much appreciated

 

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Thread bookmarked, I always wondered if I should pick up AP or EB. Thanks for taking the time OP.

 

Rhaina wrote...

Very nicely done, much appreciated.

1. Happy to be of service.
2. I am glad that this could be that much of use to you that you bookmarked it. 
3. You are very welcome!

[Manuel La Bor]

Added Smgs equipped with ap ammo II (same damage reduction, same penetration as ap mod V +20% enhanced damage)

Updated AR's to include the numbers for both mods equipped together. Will continue work on other sections.

[Manuel La Bor]

Updated pistols, Arc pistol X definitely greatly benefits from having both. Can you say Paladin I with more ammo?

[XCPTNL]

Nice list. Although it changes nothing for me. I will still use both on the Paladin and Talon while using Barrel and Spare Ammo on the GPS and Black Widow and for the Hornet I don't have an either or choice anyway. But still thanks for doing the math...

[Manuel La Bor]

got called into work, will finish the shotguns when I get home.

[Manuel La Bor]

Korjyan wrote...

Nice list. Although it changes nothing for me. I will still use both on the Paladin and Talon while using Barrel and Spare Ammo on the GPS and Black Widow and for the Hornet I don't have an either or choice anyway. But still thanks for doing the math...

Yeah, for a lot of these weapons - I do not have them so I can't form an opinion based on combat performance. This was mainly supposed to be an informative piece for people who might not know all the math behind the scenes. 

[Manuel La Bor]

Shotguns all done, all weapons updated to include stats for both mods combined.

[SGC Reaper SV]

Please stop bumping your thread. Over half of this thread consists of your posts. I appreciate you getting the numbers and showing us this.... but really....

[Bhatair]

This is very helpful! Great thread.

[Manuel La Bor]

SGC Reaper SV wrote...

Please stop bumping your thread. Over half of this thread consists of your posts. I appreciate you getting the numbers and showing us this.... but really....

Damn, caught me. 

Fine I'll stop - it's all done and finished anyways. 

Modifié par Manuel La Bor, 20 avril 2012 - 11:41 .

[macarius5]

Manuel La Bor wrote...

SGC Reaper SV wrote...

Please stop bumping your thread. Over half of this thread consists of your posts. I appreciate you getting the numbers and showing us this.... but really....

Damn, caught me. 

Fine I'll stop - it's all done and finished anyways. 

Appreciate your effors OP.  Just happen to read this thread.  Very helpful, will definitely adjust the mods on my pistol to maximize damage.

Modifié par macarius5, 21 avril 2012 - 12:08 .

[Ahms]

Sweet merciful.....

Cliffs?!

Thanks for doing the grunt work, btw.

[Manuel La Bor]

macarius5 wrote...

Manuel La Bor wrote...

SGC Reaper SV wrote...

Please stop bumping your thread. Over half of this thread consists of your posts. I appreciate you getting the numbers and showing us this.... but really....

Damn, caught me. 

Fine I'll stop - it's all done and finished anyways. 

Appreciate your effors OP.  Just happen to read this thread.  Very helpful, will definitely adjust the mods on my pistol to maximize damage.

Thanks, happy to help you out. 

Also, @ SGC - I just want to point out that besides 8 posts (which were all blatant bumps) every other post of mine in this thread has been in reply to someone else. But I do admit that I reply too much. 

[Stardrinker]

Nice job with the number crunching, but I feel that I should remind people that there are other things to take into consideration apart from just DPS at face value.

Extended barrel works on everything. AP mod only works when hitting armor.

If you're on a map that you know will have enemies funneling into a kill zone, or really, any time you see enemies overlap (which is often, since they use the same pathfinding), AP mod shines because it allows you to hit multiple enemies with a single bullet, which I feel people are overlooking.

Ext. Barrel can be useful if it actually crosses the threshold of requiring less shots/time to kill an enemy. i.e. With Ext. Barrel enemy dies in 1 shot but lives with 1-2 bars without it.

So it's usually not a clear cut distinction about which mod would be better, since there are so many variables to consider.

Not trying to take any due praise from you, but I felt that I should bring up some other points that should not be ignored.

P.S. I'll usually go scope/choke + Ext. Barrel + AP ammo but with my AP ammo
supplies running out and no reliable way to stock up on it, consideration for choosing between Ext. Barrel and AP mod will still exist.

Modifié par Stardrinker, 21 avril 2012 - 04:49 .

[Manuel La Bor]

Stardrinker wrote...

Nice job with the number crunching, but I feel that I should remind people that there are other things to take into consideration apart from just DPS at face value.

Extended barrel works on everything. AP mod only works when hitting armor.

If you're on a map that you know will have enemies funneling into a kill zone, or really, any time you see enemies overlap (which is often, since they use the same pathfinding), AP mod shines because it allows you to hit multiple enemies with a single bullet, which I feel people are overlooking.

Ext. Barrel can be useful if it actually crosses the threshold of requiring less shots/time to kill an enemy. i.e. With Ext. Barrel enemy dies in 1 shot but lives with 1-2 bars without it.

So it's usually not a clear cut distinction about which mod would be better, since there are so many variables to consider.

Not trying to take any due praise from you, but I felt that I should bring up some other points that should not be ignored.

P.S. I'll usually go scope/choke + Ext. Barrel + AP ammo but with my AP ammo
supplies running out and no reliable way to stock up on it, consideration for choosing between Ext. Barrel and AP mod will still exist.

Yep you nailed it on the head there, I only did this so people could make an informed decision when they had to make a decision. For derperus you can get away with extended mod on everything and just deal with guardians by shooting their mail slot or feet. But for geth and Reapers who have far more armored enemies spawning than cerberus a lot of the time having better damage vs armor and normal damage vs health is a big help. Now that I have a phalanx X I use it as a backup with ext barrel and AP mod for armoured enemies. For everything else there is my phaeston/tempest/hornet. 

Ahms wrote...

Sweet merciful.....

Cliffs?!

Thanks for doing the grunt work, btw.

I wish there was an easy way to condense the data, the post on damage breakpoints is probably as close as it will get. 

[Atmosfear3]

You're missing the Javelin on your list.

[Manuel La Bor]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

You're missing the Javelin on your list.

And both widows, Even with -30 and -50 off of the tops of their damages they still do insane amounts of damage to armor. So much so that at the time I figured I shouldn't bother posting their numbers since either everyone uses both AP and EB or EB and extra ammo. 

I can post those numbers though after I get home from work, it shouldn't take more than ten to fifteen minutes to do all of em.

Edit.

Here's the numbers

Widow 1083 [.33rps] - S 1053 G 1033
AP - S 1072.5  G 1065.5
EB 1353.75 - S 1323.75 G 1303.75
Both - S 1342.25 G 1335.25 

Black Widow 642.6 [1rps] - S 612.6 G 592.6
AP - S 631.1 G 624.1
EB 803.25 - S 773.25 G 753.25
Both - S 791.75 G 784.75

Javelin 1288.1 [.33rps] - S 1258.1 G 1238.1
AP - S 1276.6 G 1269.6
EB 1610.125 - S 1580.125 G 1560.125
Both - S 1598.625 G 1591.625

As you can see the benefits of having EB over AP is significant, having both doesn't really help too much so I can confidently say that it is probably better to equip either EB + extra bullets or EB + Enhanced scope. 

Modifié par Manuel La Bor, 21 avril 2012 - 08:45 .

[atum]

Excellent thread. It should be fist bumped to the first page now and then.

[Manuel La Bor]

atum wrote...

Excellent thread. It should be fist bumped to the first page now and then.

Thank you, and yes... yes it should... 

[inb4lock]

Manuel La Bor wrote...

Atmosfear3 wrote...

You're missing the Javelin on your list.

And both widows, Even with -30 and -50 off of the tops of their damages they still do insane amounts of damage to armor. So much so that at the time I figured I shouldn't bother posting their numbers since either everyone uses both AP and EB or EB and extra ammo. 

I can post those numbers though after I get home from work, it shouldn't take more than ten to fifteen minutes to do all of em.

Edit.

Here's the numbers

Widow 1083 [.33rps] - S 1053 G 1033
AP - S 1072.5  G 1065.5
EB 1353.75 - S 1323.75 G 1303.75
Both - S 1342.25 G 1335.25 

Black Widow 642.6 [1rps] - S 612.6 G 592.6
AP - S 631.1 G 624.1
EB 803.25 - S 773.25 G 753.25
Both - S 791.75 G 784.75

[color=rgb(170,170,170)">Javelin ]1288.1 [.33rps] - S 1258.1 G 1238.1[/color]
AP - S 1276.6 G 1269.6
EB 1610.125 - S 1580.125 G 1560.125
Both - S 1598.625 G 1591.625

As you can see the benefits of having EB over AP is significant, having both doesn't really help too much so I can confidently say that it is probably better to equip either EB + extra bullets or EB + Enhanced scope. 

Really great info. I never really thought about it but it seems the the only class who would benefit from APmod on these are the GI. I have succesfully sniped through walls with this setup. On all other classes its a waste of a mod slot.