134 réponses à ce sujet

[Manuel La Bor]

whalewhisker wrote...

Great post! bookmarked for future reference.

Glad I could be of service.  

[Farmtech-Ru]

Great job, thank you!

[Manuel La Bor]

Farmtech-Ru wrote...

Great job, thank you!

No, thank you for taking the time to read it!

Also, blatant bump is blatant. 

[Creakazoid]

This topic has always been on my mind. So, when I found this thread, a choir of angels sang to me. If there was ever an award for Best Thread on ME3 Forums, I would give it to this thread!

[5_Mania]

How about an "High Caliber Barrel vs Smart Choke mod" here's the map thread?

More pellets on target or more damaging but spread out shot on the former?

[Manuel La Bor]

5_Mania wrote...

How about an "High Caliber Barrel vs Smart Choke mod" here's the map thread?

More pellets on target or more damaging but spread out shot on the former?

That is so far beyond me to do broski, generally if it is a hard hitting shotgun already (Wraith, claymore, eviserator, graal) it is worth it to tighten up the spread instead of piling more damage on top of it. I usually go shredder/choke if I'm running the claymore - you only get one shot so you better make sure as much of it hits as possible. 

Creakazoid wrote...

This topic has always been on my mind. So, when I found this thread, a choir of angels sang to me. If there was ever an award for Best Thread on ME3 Forums, I would give it to this thread!

That means a lot, I'm glad you're so happy with it!

BrookNone wrote...

Manuel La Bor wrote...

<snip/>

[i]A quick look at armor damage reduction first
5 is minimum damage

Armor reduces damage by
15 in bronze (Ap Lvl 5 reduces armor score by 9.75, so the armor takes 5.25 damage off in bronze)
30 in silver (AP lvl 5 reduces armor score by  19.5, so the armor takes 11.5 damage off in silver)
50 in gold (Ap Lvl 5 reduces armor score by 32.5, so the armor takes 18.5 damage off in gold.)

<snip/>

Thank you for the time and effort involved in putting this together. I do think however that the values I've quoted above are incorrect.

Level Five AP mod reduces armor benefit by 65%, leaving it at 35% of its regular effectiveness. This means that:

[Bronze]
15 * 0.35 = 5.25 (Same as above)

[Silver]
30 * 0.35 = 10.5 (Different than above)

[Gold]
50 * 0.35 = 17.5 (Different than above)


I did not read through your entire post to verify the subsequent data but if nothing else you may need to correct these initial values.

You are probably right, what I did was multiply the values by .65 and then I took the difference (I am a derp when it comes to math) So I think I added up wrong. In almost every case I'm only off by one or two points of damage, but I'll get crackin on fixing that up. 


EDIT
Just fixed all of the other guns, but then in my derplike fashion went and ****ed up the smg's - multiplied by 1.25x instead of 1.2x. Will fix those later tonight. 

SMG's all fixed up/

Modifié par Manuel La Bor, 18 mai 2012 - 12:55 .

[5_Mania]

What's the consensus on an AP mod for the Reeger?

I figure AP and EB but a spare clip is very convenient.

[Creakazoid]

I'd reckon (without doing any math) that a shredder mod on the Reegar would be superior to a barrel when used alone on armored foes. The Reegar basically is a AR or SMG in terms of ROF and those are crippled by armor reduction without AP mods.

Modifié par Creakazoid, 31 mai 2012 - 05:35 .

[Manuel La Bor]

5_Mania wrote...

What's the consensus on an AP mod for the Reeger?

I figure AP and EB but a spare clip is very convenient.

I would do the math but this link here does everything for you =>https://docs.google....MNDIyUXc#gid=17

He might not have updated it quite yet for the new weapons but it is FAR more in depth than I could ever be. Just make a copy of it from the drop down menu to edit it. 

 

Creakazoid wrote...

I'd reckon (without doing any math) that a shredder mod on the Reegar would be superior to a barrel when used alone on armored foes. The Reegar basically is a AR or SMG in terms of ROF and those are crippled by armor reduction without AP mods.

This is probably right, at the moment people are shouting OP because you can stack ap ammoa and ap mod on it to basically completely nullify armor. 

[bd2eazy]

bump for update request.. also for ppl who dont know about this amazing thread.

Modifié par bd2eazy, 09 juin 2012 - 06:29 .

[Manuel La Bor]

bd2eazy wrote...

bump for update request.. also for ppl who dont know about this amazing thread.

I might update it, but grimy bunyip's me3 calculator and tangster's weapon charts pretty much make this thread obsolete. 

But it is good to know that I helped a few people out. 

[Javo2357]

wow, very useful thank you for posting!

[Josh.de]

Thank you for this very useful post!

The two links you gave, me3 calc and weapon charts, are ok, but I still prefer to read your post as I find everything important put well together, I find anything faster.

[Rolenka]

I'm sorry, I can't make any sense of this at all. Can you explain one weapon in the longhand version, please?

[Manuel La Bor]

Rolenka wrote...

I'm sorry, I can't make any sense of this at all. Can you explain one weapon in the longhand version, please?

Ok, well go with the mattock since it's damage is pretty close to 100 for simplicities sake. 
Mattock [7.5 rps] 117.8dpb - Silver = 87.8dpb Gold = 67.8dpb
AP mod - Silver = 107.3dpb Gold = 100.3dpb
EB mod 147.25dpb - Silver = 117.25 Gold = 97.25dpb
With Both - S 136.75 G 129.75

Now, the mattock fires at 7.5 rounds per second (multiply your damage per round by this number to get your damage per second.), with a damage per round of 117.8 (at rank x, btw). 

Armor in this game reduces damage delivered by a flat number, in silver this is -30 damage, and in gold it is -50. 
taking 30 damage from the mattocks base damage of 117.8 gives us 87.8 damage per round, and for gold this gives us 67.8 damage per round. 

The ap mod in this game cancels out 65% of armor's protection (at rank V) so in silver, you would get -10.5 damage instead of -30, and -17.5 in gold instead of -50. A pretty substantial difference, and the difference between a weapon working in silver or gold or failing miserably. 

So with an AP mod V equipped the Mattock deals 107.3 damage per round in silver, and 100.3 damage per round in gold. 

Extended Barrel V gives +25% weapon damage, taking the base damage from 117.8 to 147.25 damage per round. In silver, you end up with nearly identical damage to a naked mattock which is great. And in gold you end up with quite a bit less damage.

The choice to be made, is whether you want to do great damage to shields and health, and significantly less damage to armor - or normalized damage to armor and normal damage to health. The other factor is piercing through cover, enemies and blasted guardian shields (the main reason why I take AP mods at all.)

There is a certain point at which the Extended Barrel is bette against armor than the AP mod, it's somewhere around 250 damage per bullet. So hard hitting weapons like the carnifex/viper/valiant/paladin ETC should take the EB if they want to maximise damage potential. 


I hope this helped explain it to you in an easier to understand format. 

[himegoto]

so.. is it useless on weapons such as GPS and the graal?

[Manuel La Bor]

himegoto wrote...

so.. is it useless on weapons such as GPS and the graal?

Yep, pretty much any weapon that actually shoots a projectile (or ghostbuster beam) either doesn't benefit from it or ignores armor completely anyways. 

The gps, graal and kishok ignore armor completely and only the kishok can pierce anything, though only guardian shields at that. 

The striker, falcon, reegar, and krysae do not (and should not) benefit from it whatsoever if the .ini files are to be believed. Though I believe the reegar is currently bugged and does get the penetration and increased damage even though it shouldn't. 

Generally, unless I am specifically playing against cerberus or play random/random I always take the EB mod.   Especially if you have ap ammo lvl 2 or better in abundance. Though warp and cryo also weaken armors damage reduction a bit, neither give you the penetration of AP though. 

I believe that the numbers will say that any weapon above ~220 damage benefits more from EB than AP for pure damage. 

[Kenadian]

Manuel La Bor wrote...

himegoto wrote...

so.. is it useless on weapons such as GPS and the graal?

Yep, pretty much any weapon that actually shoots a projectile (or ghostbuster beam) either doesn't benefit from it or ignores armor completely anyways. 

The gps, graal and kishok ignore armor completely and only the kishok can pierce anything, though only guardian shields at that. 

The striker, falcon, reegar, and krysae do not (and should not) benefit from it whatsoever if the .ini files are to be believed. Though I believe the reegar is currently bugged and does get the penetration and increased damage even though it shouldn't. 

Generally, unless I am specifically playing against cerberus or play random/random I always take the EB mod.   Especially if you have ap ammo lvl 2 or better in abundance. Though warp and cryo also weaken armors damage reduction a bit, neither give you the penetration of AP though. 

I believe that the numbers will say that any weapon above ~220 damage benefits more from EB than AP for pure damage. 

In the case of the Reegar, it most certainly does benefit from AP. It pierces Guardian shields, but I've not seen it go through cover (it's gone over and around cover though). Probably a bug though.

[Manuel La Bor]

Kenadian wrote...

Manuel La Bor wrote...

himegoto wrote...

so.. is it useless on weapons such as GPS and the graal?

Yep, pretty much any weapon that actually shoots a projectile (or ghostbuster beam) either doesn't benefit from it or ignores armor completely anyways. 

The gps, graal and kishok ignore armor completely and only the kishok can pierce anything, though only guardian shields at that. 

The striker, falcon, reegar, and krysae do not (and should not) benefit from it whatsoever if the .ini files are to be believed. Though I believe the reegar is currently bugged and does get the penetration and increased damage even though it shouldn't. 

Generally, unless I am specifically playing against cerberus or play random/random I always take the EB mod.   Especially if you have ap ammo lvl 2 or better in abundance. Though warp and cryo also weaken armors damage reduction a bit, neither give you the penetration of AP though. 

I believe that the numbers will say that any weapon above ~220 damage benefits more from EB than AP for pure damage. 

In the case of the Reegar, it most certainly does benefit from AP. It pierces Guardian shields, but I've not seen it go through cover (it's gone over and around cover though). Probably a bug though.

I'm pretty sure it is a bug. Hopefully when/if bioware fixes it they will actually fix it for reals. 

[himegoto]

Manuel La Bor wrote...

 For the arc pistol Ill use uncharged damage and put charged damage in {} (Its charge damage multiplier is x6) Arc Pistol [9.16rps] 87.7 {526.2} - S = 57.7 {346.2} G = 37.7 {226.2} AP - S = 77.2 {463.2} G = 70.2 {421.2} EB 109.625 {657.75} - S = 79.625 {477.75} G = 59.625 {357.75} Both - S 99.125 {594.75} G 78.5 {552.75} Verdict - I had never given this gun it's fair chance, but it looks like it can rival the carnifex for power while also having a lower damage to fall back on in a hurry. EB mod for sure on this one.  

Do you mean AP on this one?

Modifié par himegoto, 13 juillet 2012 - 12:24 .

[Arppis]

Nice list... no harrier?

[Eckswhyzed]

Arppis wrote...

Nice list... no harrier?

Just look at the breakpoints at the end of the post:
EB will be better when the base weapon damage is above (Bronze, Silver, Gold):
No Ammo: 37, 78, 130
AP Ammo 1: 30, 60, 100
AP Ammo 2: 21, 42, 70
AP Ammo 3: 18, 36, 60

The harrier does [106.2-129.5]
 So with no ammo, AP mod is better. With AP ammo equipped, extended barrel is better.

EDIT: On gold of course.

Modifié par Eckswhyzed, 13 juillet 2012 - 12:45 .

[Manuel La Bor]

himegoto wrote...

Manuel La Bor wrote...

 For the arc pistol Ill use uncharged damage and put charged damage in {} (Its charge damage multiplier is x6) Arc Pistol [9.16rps] 87.7 {526.2} - S = 57.7 {346.2} G = 37.7 {226.2} AP - S = 77.2 {463.2} G = 70.2 {421.2} EB 109.625 {657.75} - S = 79.625 {477.75} G = 59.625 {357.75} Both - S 99.125 {594.75} G 78.5 {552.75} Verdict - I had never given this gun it's fair chance, but it looks like it can rival the carnifex for power while also having a lower damage to fall back on in a hurry. EB mod for sure on this one.  

Do you mean AP on this one?

It could go either way, I take EB because of the charge up mechanic but AP is also just as good. 


Also, I wrote these opinions when I was still pretty fresh to the game. I'd take them with a grain of salt or disregard them entirely. 

Modifié par Manuel La Bor, 14 juillet 2012 - 09:32 .

[darkchaosbunny]

Now that the SMG High-Velocity Barrel is out, and given your comment on the hurricane, I assume extended barrel is still better?