387 réponses à ce sujet

[Meltemph]

AtlasMickey wrote...

Synthesis can't be horrific because there's no explanation of what it is.

I take it for granted that the tech singularity is inevitable and that this is what is meant by the whole thing, but who knows...

Synthesis itself isnt horrific, the mindset behidn it and what it infers to accomplish, is horrific.  A humans physiology and psychology makes up who they are, not just their psychology.  You mess with either or, or even both, you change who they are/were.

[Kileyan]

It is horrific because of what it entails. Simply adding some whizbang computer parts to an organic life form won't stop evolution and bring peace to the galaxy. Why would it?

What that hints at is not only are there physical changes, but there is also some sort of homogenization of thought. Everyone becomes samey, some sort of hivemind with little free will. Thats make take on it. Call it the borg choice.

Modifié par Kileyan, 18 avril 2012 - 11:30 .

[KingZayd]

Optimystic_X wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The hardware houses the software.  hardware connections allow access to the other software.

And this CAN'T apply to the Catalyst because...?

The point is that attaching the Crucible changed him. The precise logistics of this are irrelevant to the point.

It's not irrelevant. Logistics are what allows it to make sense.What software is on the crucible that would reprogram him? Nobody knew there was an AI up there, so the crucible can't have had a reprogram AI protocol. The software the crucible does have, is the software than runs the crucible. The only software change the AI can have is the one that allows it to use the crucible, assuming it is able to interface with this piece of hardware. If it isn't able to interface, then with it, then the software is irrelevant as far as the Starchild is concerned. The Crucible certainly isn't able to COMPEL the starchild to bring Shepard upstairs.

[goose2989]

Axialbloom wrote...

I have said many times, Synthesis is the most evil and horrific thing to ever happen in the ME galaxy. And bioware thought this was a 'good' ending?

But I like green!

[paincanbefun]

YES! it's totally horrific, and it's trying to pass its self off as the "best" ending. it's hideous, like raping every thing in the galaxy- except it's not just one bad experience, it's rewriting them forever.

[The Spamming Troll]

all i want to know is if i can have sex with a toaster if i pick synthesis.

seriously.

does anyone know if i pick synthesis, can i throw down with a toaster, or maybe a microwave would be interesting.

id like a dev response to this.

[KingZayd]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

all i want to know is if i can have sex with a toaster if i pick synthesis.

seriously.

does anyone know if i pick synthesis, can i throw down with a toaster, or maybe a microwave would be interesting.

id like a dev response to this.

you can anyway, it's just weird.

[Eyelidsz]

Synthesis is an attempt by the writers to be like, "Oh gee. Let's all be one. No more fighting." It's a conscious effort to make this the "good" ending when all other decisions in the series had been morally gray. To me, it's the most evil decision of all because it changes every single being in the galaxy against its will.

[justafan]

The Angry One wrote...

Also, think of the primitive worlds that have no idea what's going on.
Suddenly *green light* and poof! Everybody has glowing green eyes and is apparently half-synthetic.

Hell imagine the impact of such an event on Earth, *today*. There'd be conspiracy theories, riots, mass suicides...

Even worse, if you're a species that relies on camoflage for survival/ food, you are basically guaranteed to go extinct now.  Hard to stay hidden at night with glowing green eyes and wires.

Modifié par justafan, 18 avril 2012 - 11:55 .

[AtlasMickey]

Meltemph wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

Synthesis can't be horrific because there's no explanation of what it is.

I take it for granted that the tech singularity is inevitable and that this is what is meant by the whole thing, but who knows...

Synthesis itself isnt horrific, the mindset behidn it and what it infers to accomplish, is horrific.  A humans physiology and psychology makes up who they are, not just their psychology.  You mess with either or, or even both, you change who they are/were.

I don't believe that.

Humans go through many physiological changes in their lives, both healthy and unhealthy, natural and unnatural, but that doesn't mean that at our core or essence we are different beings because of those changes. We may have the same dreams, passions, and personalities. Indeed, it's those very same dreams, passions, and personalities that will cause our eventual transcnendance from biological limitations.

I fully expect that in our lifetimes we will develop AI that is indistinguishable from human beings, so much that we will treat them as human. They may have no biological bodies and yet we'll sympathize with their feelings.

This is not horrific.

Modifié par AtlasMickey, 19 avril 2012 - 12:03 .

[TheShadowWolf911]

Bioware REALLY dropped the ball on this one.

[shnellegaming]

The thing is this still doesn't change the basic laws of physics which still support organic creation of life.  So basically in the long run it won't matter cause you'll be back to organic and synthetic life eventually.  So the only answer is learning to coexist.

And the Reapers are still out there and who's to say they still won't harvest us for reproduction?

Modifié par shnellegaming, 19 avril 2012 - 12:05 .

[Thrazesul]

I wouldn't touch that ending with a mile long stick...

Partly because it implies the Reapers sort of win by melding together everything... and I feel horrible for Shepard having to make a decision that alters all known DNA in the Galaxy. It's bad enough to destroy the Geth and EDI or lose herself to become one of the reapers, but playing God? Eiuh.

It's just so... alien to imagine all DNA rewritten in the blink of an eye.

Scares the crap out of me.

[Meltemph]

  

Humans go through many physiological changes in their lives, both healthy and unhealthy, natural and unnatural, but that doesn't mean that at our core or essence we are different beings because of those changes.

We are not talking about minor changes like you are talking about.  We are literally being changed, from a human structure standpoint. A new DNA, with changed abilities/enhanced at minimum.  That would be like giving a dog vastly increased intelligence and saying that it wouldnt change what the dog is or what it can do. 

We may have the same dreams, passions, and personalities. Indeed, it's those very same dreams, passions, and personalities that will cause our eventual transcnendance from biological limitations.

I fully expect that in our lifetimes we will develop AI that is indistinguishable from human beings, so much that we will treat them as human. They may have no biological bodies and yet we'll sympathize with their feelings.

You are romantasizing, none of this adresses what synthesis does.  To is eugenics, it "fixes" us with genetics, to get rid of our "bad" traits. You cant jump into the snythesis beam, without having an idea in your head on how snythesis fixes things... Which means genetic manipulation, even to "bad" people.

[Kileyan]

shnellegaming wrote...

The thing is this still doesn't change the basic laws of physics which still support organic creation of life.  So basically in the long run it won't matter cause you'll be back to organic and synthetic life eventually. 

Yeh this is another important part of the borg plan. What happens in the future when an organic life is encountered. What will us organic/synthetic things be, are we going to be like Invasion of the Bodysnatches group think, will we all suddenly agree with each other, a hivemind of greys? Will we point and do that Bodysnatchers scream when we encounter an organic who hasn't been assimilated?

That is the part I find insidious, something other than physical changes must come with this plan. To achieve the star kids goals, this idealistic world of peace and safety will come at steep costs, likley individuality, free will and ambition will be the first things to go.

So peace and safety will be achieved by this new master race of synthetic/bio hybrids, who wipe out or assimilate all new organics they encounter for their own good. Does that sound familiar, the Reapers were replaced by us, who do their job for them.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Yup, green space magic is the most terrifying of all.  I think its really by far the worst choice to make.  Not only because it makes the least sense (it makes zero sense at all actually, the others at least make a little) but its also honestly a truly evil thign to do.  Strip every living creature in the galaxy of self-determination.  Completely ruin the galaxies natural process of evolution.  You besically become a dictator of the laws of reality.  **** that ****. 

[PsyrenY]

KingZayd wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The hardware houses the software.  hardware connections allow access to the other software.

And this CAN'T apply to the Catalyst because...?

The point is that attaching the Crucible changed him. The precise logistics of this are irrelevant to the point.

It's not irrelevant. Logistics are what allows it to make sense.What software is on the crucible that would reprogram him? Nobody knew there was an AI up there, so the crucible can't have had a reprogram AI protocol. The software the crucible does have, is the software than runs the crucible. The only software change the AI can have is the one that allows it to use the crucible, assuming it is able to interface with this piece of hardware. If it isn't able to interface, then with it, then the software is irrelevant as far as the Starchild is concerned. The Crucible certainly isn't able to COMPEL the starchild to bring Shepard upstairs.

And again, you continually blind yourself to the two key possibilities here:
(a) Whichever species decided to incorporate the Catalyst could have deduced the Star-AI's presence on the Citadel:
( Nobody deduced it, and this was just a random side effect of hooking the thing up without knowing there was an AI installed.

Either of those easily explain the Catalyst behaving the way it does, but you're so determined to "prove" that he is being deceitful that you won't even acknowledge the possibility that they could be true.

So again, I ask you - what reason does he have to lie to you? There are much simpler ways to end your quest, and just as simple to send you down the wrong path unawares.

[sammysoso]

It's not so much horrific as it is idiotic.

The notion of a "final evolution" is just wrong, evolution doesn't have an endpoint. It never stops.

[omphaloskepsis]

Optimystic_X wrote...
And again, you continually blind yourself to the two key possibilities here:
(a) Whichever species decided to incorporate the Catalyst could have deduced the Star-AI's presence on the Citadel:
( Nobody deduced it, and this was just a random side effect of hooking the thing up without knowing there was an AI installed.

Either of those easily explain the Catalyst behaving the way it does, but you're so determined to "prove" that he is being deceitful that you won't even acknowledge the possibility that they could be true.

So again, I ask you - what reason does he have to lie to you? There are much simpler ways to end your quest, and just as simple to send you down the wrong path unawares.

Apologies for jumping into the argument:

Neither of these "easily explains", unless you consider space magic a good storytelling device.  In "science fiction".

And what reason doesn't the Catalyst have to lie to you?  Shepard--and every advanced sentient in the galaxy--wants the reapers destroyed, and the starchild claims to control the reapers.  If you're in the habit of nodding your head sagely in agreement to people that pop into your life out of nowhere and claim to be responsible for mass genocide, then I have some bridges that I'm selling at bargain prices! 

[Kileyan]

Optimystic_X wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The hardware houses the software.  hardware connections allow access to the other software.

And this CAN'T apply to the Catalyst because...?

The point is that attaching the Crucible changed him. The precise logistics of this are irrelevant to the point.

It's not irrelevant. Logistics are what allows it to make sense.What software is on the crucible that would reprogram him? Nobody knew there was an AI up there, so the crucible can't have had a reprogram AI protocol. The software the crucible does have, is the software than runs the crucible. The only software change the AI can have is the one that allows it to use the crucible, assuming it is able to interface with this piece of hardware. If it isn't able to interface, then with it, then the software is irrelevant as far as the Starchild is concerned. The Crucible certainly isn't able to COMPEL the starchild to bring Shepard upstairs.

And again, you continually blind yourself to the two key possibilities here:
(a) Whichever species decided to incorporate the Catalyst could have deduced the Star-AI's presence on the Citadel:
( Nobody deduced it, and this was just a random side effect of hooking the thing up without knowing there was an AI installed.

Either of those easily explain the Catalyst behaving the way it does, but you're so determined to "prove" that he is being deceitful that you won't even acknowledge the possibility that they could be true.

So again, I ask you - what reason does he have to lie to you? There are much simpler ways to end your quest, and just as simple to send you down the wrong path unawares.

So your reasoning is that the Starkid is so powerful he doesn't have to lie? Thats it, we must blindly trust all it says, because it is so powerful that it could kick our butt anyway?

Modifié par Kileyan, 19 avril 2012 - 02:05 .

[recentio]

AtlasMickey wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

Synthesis can't be horrific because there's no explanation of what it is.

I take it for granted that the tech singularity is inevitable and that this is what is meant by the whole thing, but who knows...

Synthesis itself isnt horrific, the mindset behidn it and what it infers to accomplish, is horrific.  A humans physiology and psychology makes up who they are, not just their psychology.  You mess with either or, or even both, you change who they are/were.

I don't believe that.

Humans go through many physiological changes in their lives, both healthy and unhealthy, natural and unnatural, but that doesn't mean that at our core or essence we are different beings because of those changes. We may have the same dreams, passions, and personalities. Indeed, it's those very same dreams, passions, and personalities that will cause our eventual transcnendance from biological limitations.

I fully expect that in our lifetimes we will develop AI that is indistinguishable from human beings, so much that we will treat them as human. They may have no biological bodies and yet we'll sympathize with their feelings.

This is not horrific.

You're an admitted transhumanist and would say anything to defend forcing this transformation on everyone whether they want it or not.

[PsyrenY]

drewelow wrote...

Apologies for jumping into the argument:

Neither of these "easily explains", unless you consider space magic a good storytelling device.  In "science fiction".

Care to elaborate?

And the Crucible is hardly the first instance of "space magic" in the series, yet for some reason it's the one that has so many of you up in arms.

drewelow wrote... 
And what reason doesn't the Catalyst have to lie to you?

You mean besides already winning? And you not having a clue how to activate the Crucible?

Kileyan wrote...

So your reasoning is that the Starkid is so powerful he doesn't have to lie? Thats it, we must blindly trust all it says, because it is so powerful that it could kick our butt anyway?

Whether you trust it or not is unfortunately irrelevant. If he's lying, then none of the endings can be trusted; should you stand there and derp until your army/friends are destroyed?

Put another way: do nothing, and you lose. Do anything other than the three options presented, and you lose. What does defiance get you besides meaningless posturing?

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 19 avril 2012 - 02:20 .

[Kileyan]

recentio wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

Synthesis can't be horrific because there's no explanation of what it is.

I take it for granted that the tech singularity is inevitable and that this is what is meant by the whole thing, but who knows...

Synthesis itself isnt horrific, the mindset behidn it and what it infers to accomplish, is horrific.  A humans physiology and psychology makes up who they are, not just their psychology.  You mess with either or, or even both, you change who they are/were.

I don't believe that.

Humans go through many physiological changes in their lives, both healthy and unhealthy, natural and unnatural, but that doesn't mean that at our core or essence we are different beings because of those changes. We may have the same dreams, passions, and personalities. Indeed, it's those very same dreams, passions, and personalities that will cause our eventual transcnendance from biological limitations.

I fully expect that in our lifetimes we will develop AI that is indistinguishable from human beings, so much that we will treat them as human. They may have no biological bodies and yet we'll sympathize with their feelings.

This is not horrific.

You're an admitted transhumanist and would say anything to defend forcing this transformation on everyone whether they want it or not.

Not to mention that creating a super advanced AI that is indistinguishable from a real human and treating it as a self aware being, has nothing to do with taking the entire galaxy's organics and in an instant shoving a bunch of tech into them without their consent. They are not even related in context or magnitude. They aren't even the same conversation at all.

[Zix13]

Probably why Bioware thought it was a great option.

[KingZayd]

Optimystic_X wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The hardware houses the software.  hardware connections allow access to the other software.

And this CAN'T apply to the Catalyst because...?

The point is that attaching the Crucible changed him. The precise logistics of this are irrelevant to the point.

It's not irrelevant. Logistics are what allows it to make sense.What software is on the crucible that would reprogram him? Nobody knew there was an AI up there, so the crucible can't have had a reprogram AI protocol. The software the crucible does have, is the software than runs the crucible. The only software change the AI can have is the one that allows it to use the crucible, assuming it is able to interface with this piece of hardware. If it isn't able to interface, then with it, then the software is irrelevant as far as the Starchild is concerned. The Crucible certainly isn't able to COMPEL the starchild to bring Shepard upstairs.

And again, you continually blind yourself to the two key possibilities here:
(a) Whichever species decided to incorporate the Catalyst could have deduced the Star-AI's presence on the Citadel:
( Nobody deduced it, and this was just a random side effect of hooking the thing up without knowing there was an AI installed.

Either of those easily explain the Catalyst behaving the way it does, but you're so determined to "prove" that he is being deceitful that you won't even acknowledge the possibility that they could be true.

So again, I ask you - what reason does he have to lie to you? There are much simpler ways to end your quest, and just as simple to send you down the wrong path unawares.

Because is ridiculous, and for a) according to you the Starchild's been dormant all this time, so there's no way to deduce it's presence, therefore also ridiculous.

The catalyst can't be telling the truth, because the story doesn't make any sense if it is. You're so determined to handwave any inconsistencies in what the Starchild tells you, that you won't even acknowledge the possibility that he's a damned liar, or that your senses are compromised. (how does he beam the images of Anderson shooting the crucible, and TIM grabbing the control rods into your mind? why can't he beam any other images?)

Why lie to you? because it wants you to pick something other than destroy.