387 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

I'm not sure why so many people dislike synthesis. It seems to me that the framework of organic DNA is changed to make some sort of 'affinity gene' (Thats a reference to the Nights Dawn Trilogy to help people get my meaning).

The synthetic/organic merging would permit people to alter there own genome (whether by altering your own genes in real time, or only being able to do it to your offspring).

If people are so up in arms about saren being wrong, maybe they should start protesting the actual research in real life that is trying to make this sort of thing happen.

How about the reapers are still around. We have no reason to suspect their personalities have changed, and oh! we've all implanted ourselves with synthetic parts just like Saren. What did Sovereign do with Saren, when he was implanted? Oh! that's right, he assumed direct control.

[ElSuperGecko]

lillitheris wrote...
I have to say here as an aside that I'm absolutely flabbergasted that people can't make a distinction between:

- Something that the Catalyst thinks is the best option; and
- Something that is actually, objectively, the best option.

This.

As I said earlier, the Catalyst's original "solution" was the Reapers, the harvesting of all advanced life and the cycle of extinction.  An all-but unimaginable horror that we've been fighting against for the last three games.

Now it puts forward "Synthesis" as a new solution - galaxy wide involuntary eugenics, at best.  Rewriting the basic genetic structure of all life into a form it deems more appropriate.

And after giving us less than a minute of dialogue regarding the idea (and without Shepard asking a single pertinent question), the player is supposed to accept that it's a good idea?  That it won't have any negative consequences?

The Reapers (and by extension, the Catalyst) have NEVER shown any empathy, sympathy or compassion for organic life.  They've never shown any regret or remorse for the cycle of extinction - the Catalyst even goes so far to defend it!

So why, after less than one minute of discussion - and no idea of the process effects and consequences - is the Catalyst's proposed new "solution" in the best interests of Shepard, your friends, your love interests, your allies and all the races desperately fighting for survival against the Reapers?

[leapingmonkeys]

Synthesis is broken in so many ways.

First, there is nothing we've experienced in ME that even suggests the possibility of restructuring all life (or is it only sentient life? or what?) in a few moments. It is space magic in its purest form.

Second, it is not even clear what has been done to everyone. The Geth are software that can freely move from one platform to another. How does synthesis even affect them? All the organics, who used to be fully functional forms are now altered to somehow include synthetic components (that materialized out of thin air) in a way where they now must have the synthetic components in order to survive?  And how does this even factor into the reproductive cycle?

Third, the act was probably the most horrific form of violence and assault that one can imagine. Everyone's physical form was fundamentally altered against their will?

Fourth, and for me this was the kicker, it doesn't actually solve the problem that vent-boy said was the reason for the Reapers. Just because all organic life now has some sort of synthetic component doesn't stop them from creating new, purely synthetic species and restarting the whole "created vs creator" schism again.

This is why I was sure that everything vent-boy was saying was a trap meant to take advantage of Shepard's weakened state. Synthesis, asides from being horrific, didn't solve vent-boy's premise. Control, asides from being nonsensical (it destroys Shepard, but he has control - how can he control anything if he is destroyed) also did nothing to prevent the recreation of the created-creator schism. Same thing with Destroy.

Obvious trap is obvious.

I was sure that there was a fourth option where I rejected vent-boy's traps and won through to victory. When I couldn't find it, I figured I had done something wrong earlier on. After reading posts on the internet I realized what I had done wrong - I installed ME3 - a terrible mistake that doomed the entire ME franchise...

Modifié par leapingmonkeys, 18 avril 2012 - 01:51 .

[Roxy Lalonde]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

The synthetic/organic merging would permit people to alter there own genome (whether by altering your own genes in real time, or only being able to do it to your offspring).

But it's not about permission for alteration. It's about "a new kind of DNA". Not altered DNA. Brand new rewritten DNA for all life in the galaxy, effective immediately, lack of consent not withstanding.

Modifié par Roxy Lalonde, 18 avril 2012 - 01:53 .

[PsyrenY]

The Angry One wrote...
There'd be conspiracy theories, riots, mass suicides...

"Mass suicides?" Hyperbole much?

I have faith that people are a bit more resilient than that. Even you would get over it quickly.

[ElSuperGecko]

Optimystic_X wrote...
I have faith that people are a bit more resilient than that. Even you would get over it quickly.

I guess that would depend entirely what happened to my d**k.

Suppose for instance, it was replaced by a short length of flaccid rubber tubing.

[KingZayd]

no more MRIs?

[PsyrenY]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...
I have faith that people are a bit more resilient than that. Even you would get over it quickly.

I guess that would depend entirely what happened to my d**k.

Suppose for instance, it was replaced by a short length of flaccid rubber tubing.

Then you replace it with a dong that has full sensory input, of course.

Also, you install the "multiple-Os" and "limitless stamina" programs.

[ElSuperGecko]

Optimystic_X wrote...
Then you replace it with a dong that has full sensory input, of course.

Also, you install the "multiple-Os" and "limitless stamina" programs.

So, you're suggesting "Synthesis" would be some kind of "Universal Plug And Play" state of affairs?

[Shaigunjoe]

Roxy Lalonde wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

The synthetic/organic merging would permit people to alter there own genome (whether by altering your own genes in real time, or only being able to do it to your offspring).

But it's not about alteration. It's about "a new kind of DNA". Not different DNA. Brand new rewritten DNA for all life in the galaxy, effective immediately, lack of consent not withstanding.

It appears you don't understand when I say altercation, what I describe would not be possible without new DNA.  DNA who's change does not rely on evolution.  We have no idea how this new DNA will manifest itself, would it be a triple helix? New nucleobases?  We don't know.

Shepard has been making decisions for other people since day 1, so I feel that is a moot point, this is on a larger scale than her other choices, but at this stage in the game it should be.  For other literal references, in The Reality Dysfunction, people who were engineered with the affinity gene could switch it off and revert back when they wanted to, who is to say this isn't the case here?  I know its speculation, but that is exactly what these endings warrent.

[KingZayd]

Optimystic_X wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...
I have faith that people are a bit more resilient than that. Even you would get over it quickly.

I guess that would depend entirely what happened to my d**k.

Suppose for instance, it was replaced by a short length of flaccid rubber tubing.

Then you replace it with a dong that has full sensory input, of course.

Also, you install the "multiple-Os" and "limitless stamina" programs.

oh no.. DLC for our dongs? what's next, shareware? Also, adds up a dangerous extra set of viruses anyone can obtain.

[PsyrenY]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

So, you're suggesting "Synthesis" would be some kind of "Universal Plug And Play" state of affairs?

Merging "all synthetic life" implies compatibility, so yeah.

KingZayd wrote...

oh no.. DLC for our dongs? what's next, shareware? Also, adds up a dangerous extra set of viruses anyone can obtain.

Perhaps. I don't really see it being much different than having to deal with organic pathogens.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 18 avril 2012 - 02:04 .

[Shaigunjoe]

KingZayd wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

I'm not sure why so many people dislike synthesis. It seems to me that the framework of organic DNA is changed to make some sort of 'affinity gene' (Thats a reference to the Nights Dawn Trilogy to help people get my meaning).

The synthetic/organic merging would permit people to alter there own genome (whether by altering your own genes in real time, or only being able to do it to your offspring).

If people are so up in arms about saren being wrong, maybe they should start protesting the actual research in real life that is trying to make this sort of thing happen.

How about the reapers are still around. We have no reason to suspect their personalities have changed, and oh! we've all implanted ourselves with synthetic parts just like Saren. What did Sovereign do with Saren, when he was implanted? Oh! that's right, he assumed direct control.

Yea, your interpretation never sits well with me.  I feel to many people think synthesis is like a cyborg, when you say implants and what not...that is not what synthesis means, at least not in my interpretation.

[Swordfishtrombone]

leapingmonkeys wrote...

Synthesis is broken in so many ways.

First, there is nothing we've experienced in ME that even suggests the possibility of restructuring all life (or is it only sentient life? or what?) in a few moments. It is space magic in its purest form.

Second, it is not even clear what has been done to everyone. The Geth are software that can freely move from one platform to another. How does synthesis even affect them? All the organics, who used to be fully functional forms are now altered to somehow include synthetic components (that materialized out of thin air) in a way where they now must have the synthetic components in order to survive?  And how does this even factor into the reproductive cycle?......

QFT!

It's the space magic aspect of the ending that bothers me most. Because it simply doesn't fit in in a science-based fictional universe; it has no plausible explanation, or mechanism through which it could work.

[Quietness]

Optimystic_X wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
There'd be conspiracy theories, riots, mass suicides...

"Mass suicides?" Hyperbole much?

I have faith that people are a bit more resilient than that. Even you would get over it quickly.

Lol hardly, there are mass suicides over things that people percieve may happen. If this actually happens you can bet that there would be much of the endtime talks and lots of death.

Modifié par Quietness, 18 avril 2012 - 02:04 .

[jumpingkaede]

count_4 wrote...

This imposes two questions: How far did the pulses from the relays actually go out and were dormant relays activated?
If the pulses only cover the near vicinity of their relay of origin and the dormant relays aren't activated(which would make rebuilding the relay network even easier)  then this is not much of a problem.

Then in a Shyamalan/Doom: Repercussions of Evil-esque twist, the transhumans that Shepard and the Catalyst created are the new Reapers.

Because synthetics and organics will always come to blows, right?

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 18 avril 2012 - 02:06 .

[bluewolv1970]

Synthesis is the type of ending that horror movies strive to achieve...the fact that Bioware thinks it is the 'best" ending tells you what kind of disconnect they have with fans, and how unlikely they can make EC fix anything...

[KingZayd]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

I'm not sure why so many people dislike synthesis. It seems to me that the framework of organic DNA is changed to make some sort of 'affinity gene' (Thats a reference to the Nights Dawn Trilogy to help people get my meaning).

The synthetic/organic merging would permit people to alter there own genome (whether by altering your own genes in real time, or only being able to do it to your offspring).

If people are so up in arms about saren being wrong, maybe they should start protesting the actual research in real life that is trying to make this sort of thing happen.

How about the reapers are still around. We have no reason to suspect their personalities have changed, and oh! we've all implanted ourselves with synthetic parts just like Saren. What did Sovereign do with Saren, when he was implanted? Oh! that's right, he assumed direct control.

Yea, your interpretation never sits well with me.  I feel to many people think synthesis is like a cyborg, when you say implants and what not...that is not what synthesis means, at least not in my interpretation.

so how do you think the geth are transformed? because to me, it sounds like your interpretation is more organic, with tiny bits of synthetic involved.

[PsyrenY]

Quietness wrote...

Lol hardly, there are mass suicides over things that people percieve may happen.

Only among the kinds of nutjobs that wouldn't have survived a galactic crisis anyway.

jumpingkaede wrote...

Because synthetics and organics will always come to blows, right?

Hybrids are either both, or neither. Problem solved either way.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 18 avril 2012 - 02:08 .

[Krakefer.ch]

synthesis ending, a.k.a Stroggification

[KingZayd]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Lol hardly, there are mass suicides over things that people percieve may happen.

Only among the kinds of nutjobs that wouldn't have survived a galactic crisis anyway.

jumpingkaede wrote...

Because synthetics and organics will always come to blows, right?

Hybrids are either both, or neither. Problem solved either way.

but it's the reapers that are the real problem. and they're still around.

[Quietness]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Lol hardly, there are mass suicides over things that people percieve may happen.

Only among the kinds of nutjobs that wouldn't have survived a galactic crisis anyway.

You seem to forget that they dont destroy all worlds just the ones that are advanced to a certain stage. Im talking the ones who weren't touched.

I wont even begin on the horrifying results of turning all organic life into partial synthetics.

[PsyrenY]

KingZayd wrote...

but it's the reapers that are the real problem. and they're still around.

The cycle is the problem. Synthesis ends it.

Quietness wrote...

You seem to forget that they dont destroy all worlds just the ones that are advanced to a certain stage. Im talking the ones who weren't touched.

Not sure what you mean. Synthesis likely hits everyone regardless of advancement.

Quietness wrote...
I wont even begin on the horrifying results of turning all organic life into partial synthetics.

Because Shepard was horrible?
I see no reason to read doom and gloom into everything like you folks do. Being part-machine can have considerable advantages if you use your imagination a little.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 18 avril 2012 - 02:18 .

[ElSuperGecko]

Optimystic_X wrote...
Merging "all synthetic life" implies compatibility, so yeah.

See, that's one of the major problems with "Synthesis" for me.

The lack of understanding about the process and it's implications.  "Synthesis" was NEVER considered by either the Shepard and your allies or by the Illusive Man.  It's the Catalyst's new "solution", and we know nothing about it or how it would work.

The Catalyst offers no explanations as to how it takes effect, the methodology or reasoning behind it.  We have no understanding of the science involved, the benefits, the negatives, the long term consequences.  For all we know at the point we make the decision, we could be husking the entire galaxy.  And there's no way of knowing the answers to any of these questions as all we have to draw on is less than 60 seconds of sketchy dialogue.  All we can do is make assumption, guess and hypothesise.

Forget for a moment EDI and Joker in the Normandy Crash.  When we make the decision, we have no knowledge of this.

All we know i the Catalyst's FIRST "solution"
(whether there is actually a problem to solve in the first place is
another matter worthy of debate) was harvesting all advanced organic
life, and the cycle of extinction.  An abhorrent method we've been fighting against for three games.

So.  If this empirical evidence suggests that the Catalyst couldn't give a monkey's uncle about organics - any -organics - even if we ignore the moral implications of Synthesis, why should we accept that re-writing the genetic structure of all life in the galaxy into a form that the Catalyst sees fit will be in any way shape or form beneficial to us, our loved ons, our allies and friends?

[julio77777]

Putting aside the "how it works" debate, because we don't have any facts about that.

Actually what worries me most is the mass suicides that will follow synthesis, I mean imagine how traumatic and sudden those changes are, some people definitely won't be able to live with it, it's basic psychology.

And how does it ends war with synthetics ? I mean the new synthesized can still create pure synthetics no ? Then a future war synthesized vs synthetics can happen.

Or are they programmed to not create synthetics ever ? And accept each other ? And not kill themselves ?

I mean come on...