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[Quietness]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Quietness wrote...
I wont even begin on the horrifying results of turning all organic life into partial synthetics.

Because Shepard was horrible?
I see no reason to read doom and gloom into everything like you folks do. Being part-machine can have considerable advantages if you use your imagination a little.

Congrats you are simply talking about 1 organic lifeform and ignoring all off the rest of the things... I can see why you are having issues wrapping your head around why synthesis is horrifying.Also ignoring the long term ramifications "neat" turns to horrifying when you look further down the line.

Modifié par Quietness, 18 avril 2012 - 02:22 .

[PsyrenY]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

So.  If this empirical evidence suggests that the Catalyst couldn't give a monkey's uncle about organics - any -organics - even if we ignore the moral implications of Synthesis, why should we accept that re-writing the genetic structure of all life in the galaxy into a form that the Catalyst sees fit will be in any way shape or form beneficial to us, our loved ons, our allies and friends?

You have to decide that yourself. For me, it was the combination of the following:

1) He holds the cards in this situation - if he wanted to kill or stop me, he could easily do so, or just simply not speak at all. So logically, he has no reason to lie.
2) Destroy involves genociding the Geth, which I would never do.
3) Control is very vague, and if I  were to lose control for some reason, the Reaping would begin again and all the lives sacrificed thus far would be for nothing.
4) As a transhumanist, synthetic augmentation is a pretty cool idea to me.

Combine those four and I went with green. If I had more assurance around blue I would have gone with that, though, as it avoids most ethical considerations.

[dielveio]

The 3 endings are:
Control - You fail to control and become a husk.
Synthesis - "The cicle will end" - The reapers won dammit! Humans became a reaper and everything else is an illusion.
Destroy - Dead Reapers.

[PsyrenY]

Quietness wrote...

Congrats you are simply talking about 1 organic lifeform and ignoring all off the rest of the things... I can see why you are having issues wrapping your head around why synthesis is horrifying.Also ignoring the long term ramifications "neat" turns to horrifying when you look further down the line.

What evidence do you have that things will absolutely turn out badly? Isn't it just as possible they could turn out great? (And indeed, the Joker-EDI scene indicates that a positive outcome is highly likely?)

[Quietness]

[quote]Optimystic_X wrote...


[quote]Quietness wrote...

Congrats you are simply talking about 1 organic lifeform and ignoring all off the rest of the things... I can see why you are having issues wrapping your head around why synthesis is horrifying.Also ignoring the long term ramifications "neat" turns to horrifying when you look further down the line.

[/quote]

What evidence do you have that things will absolutely turn out badly? Isn't it just as possible they could turn out great? (And indeed, the Joker-EDI scene indicates that a positive outcome is highly likely?)

[/quote]

Your arguements are once again supporting my previous statement.[/quote]

Modifié par Quietness, 18 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[PsyrenY]

Quietness wrote...

Your arguements are once again supporting my previous statement.

Unless your previous statement was "negativity for the sake of negativity is a waste of energy and time," then I don't see how.

[Omilophile]

KingZayd wrote...

indoctrination.

I agree that indoctrination is possible, but realistically, it's probably just bad writing and nothing more.

[Huojin]

GorrilaKing wrote...

And on another note...the Catalyst can create a beam of energy that somehow manages to affect any organic and synthetic thing in the universe....and yet it cannot simply switch into "kill reapers, leave other synthetics intact" mode??? Really, what the hell??

Forcibly changing everything everywhere is a dumb solution anyway, but IAWTC.  Those were my thoughts exactly: You can change the very essence, the very soul of EVERY SYNTHETIC AND ORGANIC BEING EVERYWHERE EVER EVER but you can't just hit the off switch for the Reapers?

How can they just create organic life/bits for Geth? Are the Reapers still around? I guess so, just with real squishy brains now, right?  How have you implanted all life with cybernetics or whatever? HOW HOW HOW AND WHY.

Uh huh, ok. And Bioware keep talking of  "artistic integrity"... that bit alone makes NO SENSE AT ALL, never mind the rest of the crap.

Modifié par Huojin, 18 avril 2012 - 02:32 .

[KingZayd]

Optimystic_X wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

but it's the reapers that are the real problem. and they're still around.

The cycle is the problem. Synthesis ends it.

According to the catalyst. The one who tells you that he's responsible for the deaths of countless lives, including the kid who's image it has appropriated. Why has it picked that image, the very same that it haunts your dreams? It's exploiting your emotional vulnerabilities. Imagine how many Shepards would have picked differently had it appeared as StarSovereign. It is manipulation.

Who wants to kill us? the reapers. Who killed the protheans before us? the reapers. The Inusannon? the reapers. Who led the geth in a war to destroy us? the reapers. Who does the game imply is responsible for the Rachni wars? The reapers. The reapers are responsible.

Why do you put your faith in this Starchild?

[Navasha]

Well, I headcanoned the whole synthesis ending as a galactic-wide upload into 'The Matrix' housed within the newborn reaper mainframe. Everyone keeps believing they can go on existing in their peaceful little galaxy free now from reapers....

However, outside in the REAL world... the cycle concludes successful and the reapers return to the void for a nice long 50,000 year nap.

[Iluvantir]

The best ending would be the one that takes the most EMS to get to:

Which is, in order:

Red terrible - destory and earth is vaporised.
Red bad - destroy and earth harmed = Blue bad - Control and earth is harmed
Red good - Destory and everyone happy (except Geth and EDI) = Blue Good - Control and happy
Green - Synthesis
Red Good (same as above) with Shep living...

*engage Sarcasm mode*
So the best choice is destory if your EMS is over 4k.

There. Kill EDI and Geth to destoy reapers... obviously the best choice... *sarcasm mode off*

[Quietness]

[quote]Optimystic_X wrote...


[quote]Quietness wrote...

Congrats you are simply talking about 1 organic lifeform and ignoring all off the rest of the things... I can see why you are having issues wrapping your head around why synthesis is horrifying.Also ignoring the long term ramifications "neat" turns to horrifying when you look further down the line.

[/quote]

What evidence do you have that things will absolutely turn out badly? Isn't it just as possible they could turn out great? (And indeed, the Joker-EDI scene indicates that a positive outcome is highly likely?)

[/quote]

Your arguements are once again supporting my previous statement.[/quote]

[quote]Optimystic_X wrote...
Unless your previous statement was "negativity for the sake of negativity is a waste of energy and time," then I don't see how.
[/quote]

Since you constantly cut down what we are saying, i will point out how you cant see long term ramifications or beyond 1 type of organic lifeform. Your one response was in regards to Joker-EDI moments after it happened. Im talking about many other organic forms of life and down the road ramifications on the races.

[nevar00]

Synthesis IS presented as the "best" ending, and the writer/s DID intend it to be the best ending. This is unarguable. Just look at the "final hours" app.

And yes, it is horrific, both as far as the science behind it and the consequences stemming from it are concerned.

[ArchDuck]

Yeah synthesis is the least plausible, least understood and and least moral option presented.

And it is presented as "the best secret ending!" by Bioware.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 18 avril 2012 - 02:36 .

[KingZayd]

Omilophile wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

indoctrination.

I agree that indoctrination is possible, but realistically, it's probably just bad writing and nothing more.

I agree it's possibly bad writing, but  there does seem to be more than a few things that are deliberate. Someone must have had indoctrination in mind during this. Also, TIM uses indoctrination tech on you in that encounter. That's how he makes you shoot Anderson.

Modifié par KingZayd, 18 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[KingZayd]

nevar00 wrote...

Synthesis IS presented as the "best" ending, and the writer/s DID intend it to be the best ending. This is unarguable. Just look at the "final hours" app.

And yes, it is horrific, both as far as the science behind it and the consequences stemming from it are concerned.

I never see them say it's the best ending?

[aj2070]

A big issue with synthesis for me has been the geth. We know that one mobile platform does not necessarily mean one geth run time program. This has been established in the rules of the Mass Effect universe. What happens when the mobile platform suddenly becomes organic? Which program becomes dominant? Do you suddenly have a race afflicted with multiple-personality disorder? Do the non-dominant programs simply get absorbed into the dominant program's personality? It'd be good to know how this is supposed to work.

[lillitheris]

The second hilarity I find is that the same people who argue that the Catalyst is lying about Synthesis/Control assume it's truthful about Destroy.

I mean, come on

Modifié par lillitheris, 18 avril 2012 - 02:39 .

[PsyrenY]

KingZayd wrote...
Why do you put your faith in this Starchild?

If he wanted to kill/stop you he could have simply not said anything, or even woken you up.

Quietness wrote...

Since you constantly cut down what we are saying, i will point out how you cant see long term ramifications or beyond 1 type of organic lifeform. Your one response was in regards to Joker-EDI moments after it happened. Im talking about many other organic forms of life and down the road ramifications on the races.

And again, how do you know that "down the road ramifications" will be bad?

I gave my reasons for choosing Synthesis earlier - Joker-EDI was not one of them. That epilogue merely proves that the outcome of Synthesis is not "Stroggification" or "Huskification" or any of the other baseless fearmongering being spouted here.

aj2070 wrote...

A big issue with synthesis for me has been the geth. We know that one mobile platform does not necessarily mean one geth run time program. This has been established in the rules of the Mass Effect universe.

And debunked: each Geth program is now a true intelligence thanks to Legion.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 18 avril 2012 - 02:41 .

[Quietness]

KingZayd wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Synthesis IS presented as the "best" ending, and the writer/s DID intend it to be the best ending. This is unarguable. Just look at the "final hours" app.

And yes, it is horrific, both as far as the science behind it and the consequences stemming from it are concerned.

I never see them say it's the best ending?

Its implied as its highest score ending to unlock (short of the breath)

[PsyrenY]

Quietness wrote...

Its implied as its highest score ending to unlock (short of the breath)

But it's not the highest - the breath is. Therefore that must be the best, by your logic.

[Dreamdancer]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

I'm not sure why so many people dislike synthesis. It seems to me that the framework of organic DNA is changed to make some sort of 'affinity gene' (Thats a reference to the Nights Dawn Trilogy to help people get my meaning).

The synthetic/organic merging would permit people to alter there own genome (whether by altering your own genes in real time, or only being able to do it to your offspring).

If people are so up in arms about saren being wrong, maybe they should start protesting the actual research in real life that is trying to make this sort of thing happen.

i consider Synthesis to be a truly evil option. Then again, I am one of the people that consider the Jedi Code to be truly evil, so my morals tend to be a tad strict.
Never mind the feasibility of the Synthesis option, the fact that you decide to alter every sentinent being without their consent turns my stomach. Bascially you are deciding that a DNA change is the best for everyone, no matter what the person going to be changed may think about it, all in the name of the greater good.
I for one would rather die fighting than agree to this.

Modifié par Dreamdancer, 18 avril 2012 - 02:44 .

[KingZayd]

aj2070 wrote...

A big issue with synthesis for me has been the geth. We know that one mobile platform does not necessarily mean one geth run time program. This has been established in the rules of the Mass Effect universe. What happens when the mobile platform suddenly becomes organic? Which program becomes dominant? Do you suddenly have a race afflicted with multiple-personality disorder? Do the non-dominant programs simply get absorbed into the dominant program's personality? It'd be good to know how this is supposed to work.

Now the geth are all crazy people

[Quietness]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Since you constantly cut down what we are saying, i will point out how you cant see long term ramifications or beyond 1 type of organic lifeform. Your one response was in regards to Joker-EDI moments after it happened. Im talking about many other organic forms of life and down the road ramifications on the races.

And again, how do you know that "down the road ramifications" will be bad?

I gave my reasons for choosing Synthesis earlier - Joker-EDI was not one of them. That epilogue merely proves that the outcome of Synthesis is not "Stroggification" or "Huskification" or any of the other baseless fearmongering being spouted here.

So what happens to Ecosystems as all the species are changed? Eco systems have issues coping with the introduction of 1 foreign species

What happens to people when viruses (organic life) become partially synthetic? I hope you enjoyed your cures and your vaccinations while they lasted.

Eternal Life and the affect on culture. Enjoy cultural stagnation.  

Next one assumes 2 things, 1 is something ive seen pretty commonly accepted: 
Eternal Life + Constantly Expanding Population does what to resources? Hi there forced euthenisa to control populace so that the species dont run out of resources.

[Quietness]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Its implied as its highest score ending to unlock (short of the breath)

But it's not the highest - the breath is. Therefore that must be the best, by your logic.

No i think the breath is a massive pile of BS along with the rest of the ending as Shepard has survied more damage in 20 minutes than a white 20something in Hostel.