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[Eternal Phoenix]

When I brought Dragon Age: Origins I didn't know much about Thedas and what to encounter within as I hadn't been following the game closely. I only knew a bit about the setting and lore. I knew about the darkspawn and I knew about the races but I didn't know about the awesome Templars. As soon as I was introduced to these amazing god-like warriors I wanted one as a companion and Alistair didn't count because he has nothing against mages and didn't even finish his training as a Templar. He was a Grey Warden. The closest thing I got to a Templar was equipping party members including my main character with Templar armor and then watzing across Fereldan like a boss.

Later Dragon Age 2 is announced and instantly I hoped for a Templar companion. My hopes went up when Bioware released this awesome picture which displayed a Templar standing amongst all of the companions in the game. The Templar in question became known as Epic Templar Guy by BSN because he stood there like a boss with some epic looking armor.

My hopes were shattered though and Epic Templar Guy wasn't a companion. He wasn't even a major character. He simply ends up having a cameo in the game and that's it. Derp Carver is the closest thing you get to a Templar companion and he doesn't even take his role seriously and he only ends up being such based on certain choices and you only get to use him for the final act.

With yet another Dragon Age game on the way this brings new hope. Will we get a Templar companion? I hope so. Based on the concept art we will be getting a Seeker and a Grey Warden so why no Templar companion? I want to create a party opposed to mages and magic. Since DA2's story ties in DA3's story we can imagine it will involve mages somewhat but mostly about the state that Thedas is in after the events of DA2. I don't see why a Templar companion would go against the plot and with mages running and jumping about like headless chickens, I think we'll need a Templar companion to deal with those pesky mages and I think it should be from him that we should be able to learn the Templar specialization from.

 
Or:
 

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 18 avril 2012 - 09:04 .

[Who is that Masked Man]

Templar party member?

Only if we can kill him.

As for including Cullen: sure!

But only if we can kill him.

[LolaLei]

Give us Cullen and I'll be as happy as a pig in ****!

... Sure we can kill him off, why not! It'll be a win-win situation then, 'cause those of us that like him can get to know him/romance him and those that hate him can insult him and chop his head off!

Modifié par LolaLei, 18 avril 2012 - 09:34 .

[Who is that Masked Man]

... Sure we can kill him off, why not! It'll be a win-win situation then, 'cause those of us that like him can get to know him/romance him and those that hate him can insult him and chop his head off!

Exactly. Something for everyone!

[5trangeCase]

....why do people love Cullen? I only vaguely know who he is, and has a shade of a character.

[LolaLei]

5trangeCase wrote...

....why do people love Cullen? I only vaguely know who he is, and has a shade of a character.

Lol, it's a long story. Do you remember him from DA:O if you played as a female Mage? If you do then you'll know the backstory to his plight. Mix that with the fact that his character really develops during DA2 and the fact that they made him hot as hell, and there's your answer!

Modifié par LolaLei, 18 avril 2012 - 09:44 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Better question:

Why do people hate Cullen? He seems to be a tolerant Templar in DA2 and isn't like "death to all mages!" and was only as such in DA:O after the events in The Circle and can you blame him? He saw his friends turned into abominations and so his response was only natural. I'd have questioned him if he was like "I love ALL mages!" afterwards because it would scream possession IMO.

If we get to kill Cullen then we should also be able to kill all mages in our party and/or hand them over to the rebel Templars for torture and purging of the spirit. Hell, add the ability to make them tranquil! It'll be awesome and if you can meet them again as tranquils, every mage in my party will be forced into such. Bring back Anders, Merill, Morrigan and Wayne Rooney so I can make them all tranquil.

Seriously. I hope DA3 includes a extreme pro-templar option where you can make mages you capture tranquil and they should include a mage hunting mini-game where you run around trying to grab mages in bags and nets wherein you make them tranquil afterwards.

[5trangeCase]

I think some kind of plot involving the mass tranquilization of all mages will be key in the hypothetical game.

But I think that if you have radicals in your party they should be limited. Perhaps 1 or 2 Templars/Sympathisers and 1 or 2 Mages and the rest being we think the PC is super cool/we just want the war to stop. Otherwise if you do go all radical (which I think could be fair) then you don't end up slaughtering your party. But ultimately, they cannot end up at the end of the hypothetical game where either the genocide of mages or the genocide of Templars has occurred. Perhaps both, but they cannot make a sequel on top of that kind of diversity of decision.

Perhaps some kind of showdown where Templars are intending to mass tranquilize some kind of place where a dreamer on the edge of possession is in refuge, and the players has to decide to slaughter all the Templars and risk the dreamer, or back the Templars and kill the dreamer. It would be a significant decision, but not be one that would have super special lasting ramifications. And for some reason it would end the war....maybe the dreamer slaughters thousands either way, and the mages acknowledge that they need to be watched.

[brushyourteeth]

Faerunner wrote...

I do sympathize with Cullen's emotional trauma and the fact that he likely can't get any counseling for his problems, but he struck me as being very fussy and obsessive even before his PTSD. No matter how justified his feelings, I simply don't care for fussy or obsessive people that constantly brow-beat others about their religious devotion or their categorical hatred of people from a single group. Not only does Cullen have both of these in spades, but we already had to deal with plenty of those in DA2, thank you.

I'm sorry that your experiences with religious people have been bad, but in respect to Cullen I really think you're seeing something that was never there.

[LolaLei]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Better question:

Why do people hate Cullen? He seems to be a tolerant Templar in DA2 and isn't like "death to all mages!" and was only as such in DA:O after the events in The Circle and can you blame him? He saw his friends turned into abominations and so his response was only natural. I'd have questioned him if he was like "I love ALL mages!" afterwards because it would scream possession IMO.

If we get to kill Cullen then we should also be able to kill all mages in our party and/or hand them over to the rebel Templars for torture and purging of the spirit. Hell, add the ability to make them tranquil! It'll be awesome and if you can meet them again as tranquils, every mage in my party will be forced into such. Bring back Anders, Merill, Morrigan and Wayne Rooney so I can make them all tranquil.

Seriously. I hope DA3 includes a extreme pro-templar option where you can make mages you capture tranquil and they should include a mage hunting mini-game where you run around trying to grab mages in bags and nets wherein you make them tranquil afterwards.

LOL which character do you think looks like Wayne Rooney??

[Eternal Phoenix]

@LolaLei

That's my special name for Wynne. Whenever I bring her up I always call her Wayne Rooney. You're the first to ever mention it. I guess others must have the same nick for her and know who I'm talking about.

@Faerunner

Sounds like you don't even want him in Dragon Age 3 and it definitively sounds like you don't want a Templar companion. I actually found mages in Dragon Age 2 to be the most annoying. We had Anders who kept whining and breaking into my house to leave his godless manifestos which I couldn't care for. Asides from his constant whining, extremist views and godless manifestos I also had to put up with raging and brooding about every-time I talked to him.

I listened to one of his godless manifestos on YouTube where he reads it to Hawke and it sounded so incredibly whining that I'm glad that he never asked my character to listen to it. It sounded like he was going to cry as he read aloud too...

He's not the only one of his kind as nearly every mage I encountered in the game kept whining about being persecuted and kept ranting about how mages are actually good people before they themselves transformed into demons proving the point of the Templars.

So yes. I think a Templar companion would even up the **** my characters have to put up with with every mage they encounter.

@StrangeCase

Well you could have a pro-mage group (Anders, Merill, Bethany) by the end of Dragon Age 2 just as you could have a pro-Templar group (Fenris, Sebastian, Carver) by the end. From what I remember, Varric, Isabella and Aveline were more or less neutral about everything. This means you could also have a neutral party who just wants to resolve the conflict without taking sides.

I don't see why we shouldn't be able to have a pro-templar party in DA3. I'm not asking for a party full of Templars (the awesomeness of that would make the game crash) but I am asking for one Templar character and a party whom is anti-magic. It'll make sense to be able to form such a party if you're role playing a pro-templar.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 19 avril 2012 - 01:07 .

[Who is that Masked Man]

Why do people hate Cullen?

I don't hate him, but I continue to dislike him, in part because of his role in DAO.

I can't blame post-tortured Cullen for being traumatized. I do blame him for using that as justification for killing all the surviving mages, regardless of their guilt. Irving was also tortured, but he didn't go insane. Whereas Cullen, in his DAO epilogue, ends up as either a murdering hobo vigilante or a Meredith-style tyrant ruling the Circle through fear.

Both epilogue slides were retconned away by Witch Hunt/DA2. To appease the Cullen fangirls? Because the writers thought he would be such a good fit for the templars vs. mages storyline? Either way: lame.

Then in DA2, for most of the game we find Cullen firmly in the jerkass faction of the templars. He admires Meredith, and implicitly endorses the "Tranquil Solution." He says that mages are "weapons" and should not be treated as people. He is never shown saying or doing anything to address the templars' abuses of power, such as their sexual abuse of Circle mages.

Which is not to say Cullen doesn't enjoy any character development. By the END of the game, Cullen arguably is a tolerant templar. He certainly isn't a member of Meredith's insane troll-logic templars (any more). Thing is, he does nothing to prevent Meredith's actions until it is already too late. The most he does before the siege of on the Circle is stand around mumbling about how he's not sure the Right of Annulment is justified in this case. And yes, he pipes up mildly in favor of sparing those mages who surrender, and even directly defies Meredith on their account... IF Hawke backs him up.

Beyond that, his big moment is refusing to kill the Champion of Kirkwall. Whoopedy-doo. That simply isn't enough to redeem him in my eyes.

When Cullen inevitably returns in DA3, I expect his character will be even further developed. Maybe even enough for me to like him. I'll tell you this, though: given the chance, I am definitely exploding him with blood magic in at least one playthrough.

[LolaLei]

Who is that Masked Man wrote...

Why do people hate Cullen?

I don't hate him, but I continue to dislike him, in part because of his role in DAO.

I can't blame post-tortured Cullen for being traumatized. I do blame him for using that as justification for killing all the surviving mages, regardless of their guilt. Irving was also tortured, but he didn't go insane. Whereas Cullen, in his DAO epilogue, ends up as either a murdering hobo vigilante or a Meredith-style tyrant ruling the Circle through fear.

Both epilogue slides were retconned away by Witch Hunt/DA2. To appease the Cullen fangirls? Because the writers thought he would be such a good fit for the templars vs. mages storyline? Either way: lame.

Then in DA2, for most of the game we find Cullen firmly in the jerkass faction of the templars. He admires Meredith, and implicitly endorses the "Tranquil Solution." He says that mages are "weapons" and should not be treated as people. He is never shown saying or doing anything to address the templars' abuses of power, such as their sexual abuse of Circle mages.

Which is not to say Cullen doesn't enjoy any character development. By the END of the game, Cullen arguably is a tolerant templar. He certainly isn't a member of Meredith's insane troll-logic templars (any more). Thing is, he does nothing to prevent Meredith's actions until it is already too late. The most he does before the siege of on the Circle is stand around mumbling about how he's not sure the Right of Annulment is justified in this case. And yes, he pipes up mildly in favor of sparing those mages who surrender, and even directly defies Meredith on their account... IF Hawke backs him up.

Beyond that, his big moment is refusing to kill the Champion of Kirkwall. Whoopedy-doo. That simply isn't enough to redeem him in my eyes.

When Cullen inevitably returns in DA3, I expect his character will be even further developed. Maybe even enough for me to like him. I'll tell you this, though: given the chance, I am definitely exploding him with blood magic in at least one playthrough.

Yeah the sexual abuse going on in the Gallow's that he seemed to do nothing about/be oblivious to pissed me off as well and I love Cullen.

I think that's something they will need to address in DA3 if he is a companion. Either have him mention that he caught Templars doing it and kicked seven shades of **** out of them, or make him have some sort of mental break down over his guilt for not stopping it... or add something to suggest that he had absolutely no idea what was going on in the Gallows and then have him decide to hunt down and kill the Templar rapists. - Just anything to rectify the situation really.

Cullen does stick up for Hawke and the Mages at the end regardless of if you take the Templars side or not though. To be honest, I feel that a lot of Cullen's "short fallings" is down to poor writing not clarifying things enough or going into enough detail etc. That's not to say I'm a Templar supporter btw, in my canon game my male Hawke is a Mage, is in a relationship with Anders and also supports the Mage plight, so it's pro-mage all the way lol.

Modifié par LolaLei, 19 avril 2012 - 05:25 .

[5trangeCase]

You can't blame "Cullen's shortcomings" on bad writing, he is not a real person, every one of his shortcomings is the intention of the writer.

If Cullen isn't a rapist himself, then he's fine with other people being rapists. That is part of his character.

[daniel_schold]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Having such a well-known character such as Cullen as a companion might be more trouble than it's worth. Everybody has different opinions regarding how a person such as Cullen should behave, etc., and they can't please everybody. So I think he'll be an important figure (if he shows up), but not a companion.

Would like to have a templar companion though. Wouldn't mind a Thrask-like fellow, a bit older and with some experience... and maybe s/he has started questioning their beliefs, so that I as a player can influence them in either direction (make them more anti-mage, or mage-friendly) depending on how I play the game.

Just my few cents

[Dave of Canada]

I'm amused at the hatred for a potential Templar companion.

I mean, we're force-fed mages.

[LolaLei]

5trangeCase wrote...

You can't blame "Cullen's shortcomings" on bad writing, he is not a real person, every one of his shortcomings is the intention of the writer.

If Cullen isn't a rapist himself, then he's fine with other people being rapists. That is part of his character.

Ok, maybe "shortcomings" is the wrong word then. I wasn't refering to character traits/personality, I was refering to the story not making certain aspects clear enough.

Also, David Gaider already said in an interview somewhere that Cullen is supposed to be the voice of reason, a symbol of what's good about the Templars, if he really was raping Mages or allowing them to be raped and abused then that wouldn't make him a good Templar, nor a good character either.

So, again I would indeed blame his "shortcomings" (I can't think of a better word for it currently) on bad writing, since David has already stated that Cullen is supposed to be a good egg.

Modifié par LolaLei, 19 avril 2012 - 12:05 .

[LolaLei]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm amused at the hatred for a potential Templar companion.

I mean, we're force-fed mages.

Also true! The ratio of sympathetic Templars, compared to the amount of Mage's plights we encounter in DA2 is severely out numbered. Bioware hadn't wanted to portray either side as predominantly good or evil, yet all we really see is the Mages retaliating due to the Templars squeezing them too hard. Sure, we already know that not all Templars are bad but they don't show us enough of their plight.

I would have liked to spend more time around them watching them deal with lyrium addiction, Meredith's slow mental decline, see them have to kill a Mage they were friends with only watch them grief after etc.

Modifié par LolaLei, 19 avril 2012 - 12:28 .

[LolaLei]

daniel_schold wrote...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Having such a well-known character such as Cullen as a companion might be more trouble than it's worth. Everybody has different opinions regarding how a person such as Cullen should behave, etc., and they can't please everybody. So I think he'll be an important figure (if he shows up), but not a companion.

Would like to have a templar companion though. Wouldn't mind a Thrask-like fellow, a bit older and with some experience... and maybe s/he has started questioning their beliefs, so that I as a player can influence them in either direction (make them more anti-mage, or mage-friendly) depending on how I play the game.

Just my few cents

Yeah, that's something I hadn't considered. I personally wouldn't be too bothered where they took his personality, even if they turned him into a bit of a dick he'd still be an intriguing character to have in our party.

[Jessihatt]

LolaLei wrote...

daniel_schold wrote...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Having such a well-known character such as Cullen as a companion might be more trouble than it's worth. Everybody has different opinions regarding how a person such as Cullen should behave, etc., and they can't please everybody. So I think he'll be an important figure (if he shows up), but not a companion.

Would like to have a templar companion though. Wouldn't mind a Thrask-like fellow, a bit older and with some experience... and maybe s/he has started questioning their beliefs, so that I as a player can influence them in either direction (make them more anti-mage, or mage-friendly) depending on how I play the game.

Just my few cents

Yeah, that's something I hadn't considered. I personally wouldn't be too bothered where they took his personality, even if they turned him into a bit of a dick he'd still be an intriguing character to have in our party.

He's well known but we don't know much about him - we don't know his personality.
He hasn't really been explored in the books or codex to my knowledge so having him as a companion can't really be a bad thing or seen as re-writing him.
Maybe I'm just biased because I want Cullen as a companion but I think the writers could get around that.

As for some people not liking him, well, in Origins we could tell people to leave. Why can't we do that in DA3? Or kill them like suggested depending on your side in the war.

Saying this, I don't think we will get a templar, merely because we seem to be getting a seeker.
Unless of course it is a templar who hasn't split from the Chantry and a seeker who has and we might get to see some rivalry between them.

[LolaLei]

CommanderJessica wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

daniel_schold wrote...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Having such a well-known character such as Cullen as a companion might be more trouble than it's worth. Everybody has different opinions regarding how a person such as Cullen should behave, etc., and they can't please everybody. So I think he'll be an important figure (if he shows up), but not a companion.

Would like to have a templar companion though. Wouldn't mind a Thrask-like fellow, a bit older and with some experience... and maybe s/he has started questioning their beliefs, so that I as a player can influence them in either direction (make them more anti-mage, or mage-friendly) depending on how I play the game.

Just my few cents

Yeah, that's something I hadn't considered. I personally wouldn't be too bothered where they took his personality, even if they turned him into a bit of a dick he'd still be an intriguing character to have in our party.

He's well known but we don't know much about him - we don't know his personality.
He hasn't really been explored in the books or codex to my knowledge so having him as a companion can't really be a bad thing or seen as re-writing him.
Maybe I'm just biased because I want Cullen as a companion but I think the writers could get around that.

As for some people not liking him, well, in Origins we could tell people to leave. Why can't we do that in DA3? Or kill them like suggested depending on your side in the war.

Saying this, I don't think we will get a templar, merely because we seem to be getting a seeker.
Unless of course it is a templar who hasn't split from the Chantry and a seeker who has and we might get to see some rivalry between them.

That's another good point, you guys are good at this!

I guess he is still a blank enough slate to take his personally any number of ways, without it interfering with his backstory too much. What with the Templar/Mage rebellion, all the circles all closing, the fact that a lot of Templars have broken away from the Chantry and their lyrium supply being cut off since the Chantry are the ones that control it via the Dwarfs, his story could go so many different ways.

[5trangeCase]

I will be utterly shocked if, in a game that will be about the war between mages and Templars, there will not be a Templar companion.