142 réponses à ce sujet

[cindercatz]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Backgrounds are origins and I believe it's pretty much confirmed that there's no race selection.

It's not confirmed either way as of PAX, anyway. If that does prove true, I'm gonna have a hard time plumping down all that cash for a CE pre-order, seeing as it would make it likely I'd only end up playing it once or twice. That would again fall severely short of Dragon Age: Origins. So I hope origins at least, and race selection, for Elves and Humans at minimum, are in the game. That will guarantee a purchase. Otherwise, I might be waiting for the price to half. I'm not gonna let myself get burned like DA2 again.

[wsandista]

Elton John is dead wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Templars just don't leave the duties required of them by the order to go adventuring though, so an actual Templar would be out of consideration unless the whole game revolves around the Mage-Templar war and that comapnion is Templar side exclusive. To make a more intresting character the Templar companion should be a deserter or atleast someone who didn't quite fit in with the order, IMO. Also there needs to be an apologist mage who hates having magical abilities to provide a different prespective on magic from a mage. DA3 needs to have more unique options for companions not characters who are practically sterotypes.

Ser Otto would like a word with you...

Ser Otto was a Templar and yet he freely entered the Alienage and started his own personal quest there. We could easily get another Templar like him who joins the protagonist of Dragon Age 3. I'm pretty sure the next game will involve mages to a great extent again and so I do think having a Templar companion could be pretty logical. Optionally he may have been kicked out of the order for some reason but he still takes his Templar duties seriously and while outside of the Templar order he has been hunting down mages and at the same time trying to find lyrium to quench his addiction.

Yes maybe the character could be sterotypical but maybe not. Merrill was a blood mage and yet she wasn't like the other blood mages who were down-right evil or power-hungry. She was just foolish and naive. Her story involved her and her blood magic. This Templar's story could involve him and his lyrium addiction among other things and thus I think it would present a rather fresh story for the companion.

Ser Otto was doing his Templar duty by invetigating rumors of blood magic in the alienage. He stayed around because he sensed "evil" which means demons, which as I understand fall under the Templars jurisdiction as well, so he was still performing his duty. A Templar would be out of place in a party because (s)he would not be putting their duty first. Thats why a deserter or someone who was expelled from the order works the best since they know how the Templars work by having served with them, but still have the freedom to move around without being brought to task for neglecting their duty(since they no longer are obligated to perform them).

Merrill was actually like many blood mages in that she justified blood magic by convincing herself it was for a good cause, just like the rebel mages who wanted freedom in the "Broken Circle" quest or Uldred who wanted to make the Grey Wardens stronger. The path to hell is paved with good intentions after all.

[Eternal Phoenix]

cindercatz wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Backgrounds are origins and I believe it's pretty much confirmed that there's no race selection.

It's not confirmed either way as of PAX, anyway. If that does prove true, I'm gonna have a hard time plumping down all that cash for a CE pre-order, seeing as it would make it likely I'd only end up playing it once or twice. That would again fall severely short of Dragon Age: Origins. So I hope origins at least, and race selection, for Elves and Humans at minimum, are in the game. That will guarantee a purchase. Otherwise, I might be waiting for the price to half. I'm not gonna let myself get burned like DA2 again.

Well I too would love for Origins to return. Personally I don't see why they couldn't even with a voiced protagonist who happens to be a human but I swear Gaider said they aren't going back to the Origins and if they do come back it'll be somewhere down the line or something. Without Origins or race selection I think Dragon Age 3 could be a good game if they nail the choices right and actually provide different paths that open up based on your choices. Consequences need to be felt within the game and make each playthrough different.

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think it was rushed, because it comes out of nowhere, and I don't think it makes much sense. Hawke hasn't surrendered, he has been killing templars, but Cullen thinks that it's crossing the line to kill him when he hasn't even surrendered?

Hawke totally stood a chance against the armies of Templars surrounding him/her, Cullen should've known Hawke was capable of killing them all!

What does your comment have to do with what I stated? I'm genuinely curious, because it seems like you're having a conversation in a parallel universe or something, and I'm interested to find out what it's about.

[Silfren]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think it was rushed, because it comes out of nowhere, and I don't think it makes much sense. Hawke hasn't surrendered, he has been killing templars, but Cullen thinks that it's crossing the line to kill him when he hasn't even surrendered?

Hawke totally stood a chance against the armies of Templars surrounding him/her, Cullen should've known Hawke was capable of killing them all!

What does your comment have to do with what I stated? I'm genuinely curious, because it seems like you're having a conversation in a parallel universe or something, and I'm interested to find out what it's about.

You're right, though.  It doesn't make sense.  Only scenario I can come up with is Cullen being cowed into believing Hawke & Co. would plow his remaining people into the ground.  But given the way that scene goes down--and this is from relatively distant memory on my part--it looks as though Hawke and her own people find themselves in surrounded in a face-off that gives them sufficient pause, and only get away because Cullen has an attack of mercy and lets them walk. 

Which, no, doesn't make sense.  Cullen doesn't strike me as the sort of person to throw up his hands and go "You could totally wipe the court with my ass, so I'll just step aside and let the lot of you walk."  Not only is he not a coward, his sense of duty would prevail.  

[wsandista]

Silfren wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think it was rushed, because it comes out of nowhere, and I don't think it makes much sense. Hawke hasn't surrendered, he has been killing templars, but Cullen thinks that it's crossing the line to kill him when he hasn't even surrendered?

Hawke totally stood a chance against the armies of Templars surrounding him/her, Cullen should've known Hawke was capable of killing them all!

What does your comment have to do with what I stated? I'm genuinely curious, because it seems like you're having a conversation in a parallel universe or something, and I'm interested to find out what it's about.

You're right, though.  It doesn't make sense.  Only scenario I can come up with is Cullen being cowed into believing Hawke & Co. would plow his remaining people into the ground.  But given the way that scene goes down--and this is from relatively distant memory on my part--it looks as though Hawke and her own people find themselves in surrounded in a face-off that gives them sufficient pause, and only get away because Cullen has an attack of mercy and lets them walk. 

Which, no, doesn't make sense.  Cullen doesn't strike me as the sort of person to throw up his hands and go "You could totally wipe the court with my ass, so I'll just step aside and let the lot of you walk."  Not only is he not a coward, his sense of duty would prevail.  

Well Cullen could possibly be a serial killer but that small thing (whats a couple of dead mages anyway) wasn't even addressed.

Maybe in DA3 it will be explained that Hawke cast a mass dominate person(or mass charm person) on the Templars:wizard:

[Commander Penguin]

On the subject of Cullen: I made him hate mages. Hardcore. I destroyed the Circle in DA:O.

[LolaLei]

wsandista wrote...

Silfren wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think it was rushed, because it comes out of nowhere, and I don't think it makes much sense. Hawke hasn't surrendered, he has been killing templars, but Cullen thinks that it's crossing the line to kill him when he hasn't even surrendered?

Hawke totally stood a chance against the armies of Templars surrounding him/her, Cullen should've known Hawke was capable of killing them all!

What does your comment have to do with what I stated? I'm genuinely curious, because it seems like you're having a conversation in a parallel universe or something, and I'm interested to find out what it's about.

You're right, though.  It doesn't make sense.  Only scenario I can come up with is Cullen being cowed into believing Hawke & Co. would plow his remaining people into the ground.  But given the way that scene goes down--and this is from relatively distant memory on my part--it looks as though Hawke and her own people find themselves in surrounded in a face-off that gives them sufficient pause, and only get away because Cullen has an attack of mercy and lets them walk. 

Which, no, doesn't make sense.  Cullen doesn't strike me as the sort of person to throw up his hands and go "You could totally wipe the court with my ass, so I'll just step aside and let the lot of you walk."  Not only is he not a coward, his sense of duty would prevail.  

Well Cullen could possibly be a serial killer but that small thing (whats a couple of dead mages anyway) wasn't even addressed.

Maybe in DA3 it will be explained that Hawke cast a mass dominate person(or mass charm person) on the Templars:wizard:

They retconned his epilogues from DA:O, I guess that's why his rampant Mage slaughter at the end of DA:O wasn't addressed, because it's invalid now? Bioware have stated a few times that alot of the epilogue sliders are supposed to be rumours and not always facts. I vaguely remember him having a new epilogue at the end of Awakening or Witch Hunt, but I can't seem to find it anywhere on google or YouTube, so don't quote me on that one unless I can find proof lol.

It makes me wonder if they have plans for him to be a companion in DA3. I mean, why go to all the trouble of retconning such a minor npc's epilogues and give him an important role in DA2 just for the sheer hell of it? It wouldn't be worth the backlash it caused if they didn't have something bigger planned for him in DA3.

Modifié par LolaLei, 05 mai 2012 - 03:15 .

[brushyourteeth]

LolaLei wrote...

They retconned his epilogues from DA:O, I guess that's why his rampant Mage slaughter at the end of DA:O wasn't addressed, because it's invalid now? Bioware have stated a few times that alot of the epilogue sliders are supposed to be rumours and not always facts. I vaguely remember him having a new epilogue at the end of Awakening or Witch Hunt, but I can't seem to find it anywhere on google or YouTube, so don't quote me on that one unless I can find proof lol.

It makes me wonder if they have plans for him to be a companion in DA3. I mean, why go to all the trouble of retconning such a minor npc's epilogues and give him an important role in DA2 just for the sheer hell of it? It wouldn't be worth the backlash it caused if they didn't have something bigger planned for him in DA3.

It would certainly make a lot more sense to integrate Cullen into DAIII as a companion than to introduce a whole new Templar, who would be unlikely to have the same depth of experience with the issue at hand.

It'd be a nice way to have a character we're already familiar with so that we'd be able to delve deeper into what makes that character special, instead of meeting one that's never been established and spending the entire game just scratching the surface of their personality.

[hussey 92]

The warden can be a templer

[Rixkey]

Silfren wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think it was rushed, because it comes out of nowhere, and I don't think it makes much sense. Hawke hasn't surrendered, he has been killing templars, but Cullen thinks that it's crossing the line to kill him when he hasn't even surrendered?

Hawke totally stood a chance against the armies of Templars surrounding him/her, Cullen should've known Hawke was capable of killing them all!

What does your comment have to do with what I stated? I'm genuinely curious, because it seems like you're having a conversation in a parallel universe or something, and I'm interested to find out what it's about.

You're right, though.  It doesn't make sense.  Only scenario I can come up with is Cullen being cowed into believing Hawke & Co. would plow his remaining people into the ground.  But given the way that scene goes down--and this is from relatively distant memory on my part--it looks as though Hawke and her own people find themselves in surrounded in a face-off that gives them sufficient pause, and only get away because Cullen has an attack of mercy and lets them walk. 

Which, no, doesn't make sense.  Cullen doesn't strike me as the sort of person to throw up his hands and go "You could totally wipe the court with my ass, so I'll just step aside and let the lot of you walk."  Not only is he not a coward, his sense of duty would prevail.  

I read that scene as every Templar in the gallows just having had their faith in their purpose shaken very badly - even if only temporarily. A lot of those Templars probably did some pretty nasty things with their only reassurance being that their superior knew what she was doing when she called it necessary. Oops.

Sure, I bet they rebound, but for many of them - especially Cullen, who's already had his head messed with once - those few minutes after seeing the person they were supposed to rely on and trust proven nuttier than a fruitcake and then soundly beaten are going to be especially vulnerable ones. "Well, if we were wrong to follow her, if we were so blind to allow this to happen, then what else were we wrong about?" - that sort of thing. That, being in that state, they let Hawke walk - even a mage Hawke - is hardly suprising. Hawke at the very least seems to have it more-or-less together. S/he's the only one who's still making sense by that point, who's doing
exactly what s/he set out to do, with no random craziness involved. That would be naturally cowing to anyone who's basically had the world yanked out from under them.

[brushyourteeth]

hussey 92 wrote...

The warden can be a templer

We're probably not going to play as a Warden (just a guess).

And we shouldn't just have a Warden companion with Templar abilities - that'd be a conflict of interest and Grey Warden business would win out. We ought to have a Templar companion that's actually invested in the mage conflict or not at all. Just my opinion, but I think it only makes sense.

[brushyourteeth]

Rixkey wrote...

I read that scene as every Templar in the gallows just having had their faith in their purpose shaken very badly - even if only temporarily. A lot of those Templars probably did some pretty nasty things with their only reassurance being that their superior knew what she was doing when she called it necessary. Oops.

Sure, I bet they rebound, but for many of them - especially Cullen, who's already had his head messed with once - those few minutes after seeing the person they were supposed to rely on and trust proven nuttier than a fruitcake and then soundly beaten are going to be especially vulnerable ones. "Well, if we were wrong to follow her, if we were so blind to allow this to happen, then what else were we wrong about?" - that sort of thing. That, being in that state, they let Hawke walk - even a mage Hawke - is hardly suprising. Hawke at the very least seems to have it more-or-less together. S/he's the only one who's still making sense by that point, who's doing
exactly what s/he set out to do, with no random craziness involved. That would be naturally cowing to anyone who's basically had the world yanked out from under them.

This is perfect. I could have been mistaken, but when I got this outcome on my playthrough I never thought it meant anything other than exactly what you've described.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 05 mai 2012 - 05:55 .

[LolaLei]

Rixkey: That's exactly how I took those last scenes as well, especially in Cullen's case. I think Meredith's descent into madness rang a little too close to home, he saw what he could become if he didn't let go of his past and extreme prejudice towards Mages. So, although he'll probably never go back to being that naive Templar from the Circle, his attitude appears to balanced itself out. He's realised that it's not magic/power that makes someone "dangerous", it's the personality/mental state of the individual welding it.

I wouldn't say his "sudden change of heart" is unexpected either, you could see the change in him gradually as the years went by, he even confides in Hawke about Meredith's increasingly strange behaviour. I get the impression that deep down Cullen knows he's in over his head being Knight Captain, he rose through the ranks and was promoted too quickly at a young age... he pretty much seeks reassurance in Hawke because he/she is a strong character that's also in over his/her head, dealing with situations beyond his/her control but appearing to do a better job of it.

Modifié par LolaLei, 05 mai 2012 - 04:39 .

[Braellina]

I feel the same way. And I've read peoples comments it would be nice to see Cullen in DA 3 as a companion and romancable to boot. Cullen was shown in DOA and DA2.

[Braellina]

I forgot to mention if you not read the new DA book Asunder do so. Though the mages seem to be the center of everything right now there are some interesting things that happen in that book that will probably have an impact on DA 3. These involve not just demons but spirits (good and bad) crossing into the mortal world from the Fade and the impact they have.

In fact, if you've not read The Stolen Throne or The Calling, do it. They help clear up some things about the dark spawn and the role of the Architech in DA Awakening.

[LolaLei]

cindercatz wrote...

lol, maybe

Elton John is dead wrote...
It won't revolve around the Mage/Templar war. It will revolve around order being restored though and there will probably be some plot involving Flemeth or something fantastic. However to expect that the Mage/Templar premise won't be part of the plot is asking for a lot. Dragon Age 2 was just the prequel to the event in Dragon Age 3 which should be a full scale war.

You say you don't want a Templar companion because it could split your party up but what happened to choices and consequences? In Baldur's Gate you could end up with your party members fighting each other if one was good and the other evil. Dragon Age games are supposed to be mature RPG's where decisions matter and that includes whom you take with you in your party. I didn't want demon Merill in my party but she was forced into it. Killing the Templar companion (whom ever he could be) could be an option but I also want the option to kill aposatates or make them tranquil.

I'm a little misunderstood here, so clarifying:

I'm not at all saying you don't include the mage/templar war, but get it over quick so we can move on to other things. Let it be the brushfire that sets off other conflicts. That's what I expect. I'm far more interested in seeing how Orlais butts heads with Ferelden, how the Qunari play in, what happens if the Free Marches get caught up in civil war in the middle of all of this. I've honestly gotten sick of the mage/templar thing, primarily because of how DA2 handled it, and how it was the relentless driving force of the game, to the detriment of player choice and agency. So let it set fire to the world, and then let the world burn over other issues and other conflicts that result.

Choice and consequence is a HUGE deal for me. Let me explain a little where I'm coming from. I don't want the same scenario to repeat from DA2, or KoTOR 2 for that matter (hated it there too), where my basic starting position excludes a primary character from my game, one or the other, and consequently lessens my enjoyment of one of the main elements of any BioWare game, that being characters and interaction with those characters. I want choices that effect the world around me and effect my characters' arcs, that have major ramifications for the nations of the game and individual companions', as well as my pc's, place in the world and that open and close story paths and specific scenarios that are unique to the path chosen. I don't want simple binary exclusions. For instance, I suggested the ability to play a Templar yourself, as one of the available choices. If and only if you do so, then perhaps along the way, mages both along your path and potentially in your party might do some things that might cause your templar to consider making a character tranquil, like you're asking for, then you have the choice to do that or not, and it effects the rest of your game. But don't waste resources giving me a simple binary that excludes one party member or the other and therefore subsequently locks me out of a whole set of major character interactive potential arcs I could be playing. I don't want a Bethany/Carver situation. I want real choices that have complex ramifications and require complex consideration.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Uuuh..horrible..horrible.

You want NPC's to change heir behavior to suit your preferences and preconceptions.
No..that's jsut horrible. NPC's should have a stable nad consistent personalitites.

I don't want Cullen or any other NPC in one playtrough to be a normal guy and a butcher in antoher, just because you want to kill him. No. Just no.

Characters should be consistent.
What your PC thinks of them or their actions can certanly be very mellable.

No, I want NPCs to be consistent to the choices of previous games. Cullen *is* a serial killer in some of my DA:O saves, and in DA2, he's basically made his way north and gotten a new job. I do not want those outcomes, that personal canon, that's right there in the game, to be brushed over just because Cullen's got a few fangirls from the female mage origin story. I have a male mage origin story playthrough (played each origin, four males and two females), and he's not that great a guy there either. He's the guy that has Lily shipped off to be tortured and locked up just because her boyfriend turned out to be a blood mage, and who supported routinely tranquilling mages just because they weren't showing enough progress in their studies. Just because he shows up in DA2 and looks the other way (horrible flaw in DA2, btw), that doesn't change who he is and who he was up until and after that point. He can be a monster, depending on your playthrough of Origins and DA2. I want that reflected if he shows up in DA3, not ignored because some people think he's cute.

It's not what I think. It's what's stated plainly in text on the screen, in addition to actually playing the game.

VampOrchid wrote...

Lotion I must say I like you We have the same way of thinking.

I want a templar companion. More so I want it to be Cullen.

I have no problem with other ppl not liking him. But he's a solid character and has always been an NPC. So I think it would be grate to have him in party. Why? Because the story we can get with him in party and the quests with him on board could be limitless and perrrrty darn awesum! In DA2 he's very reasonable. If you're a mage, he kind of looks the other way. If that's not being reasonable I don't really know what is. I don't get the Cullen hate, but I don't condem it.

Oh well to each their own.

If you only played through one time, or if you always made the same set of decisions regarding Cullen that don't show you his dark sides, then I can understand why you'd see him that way. For everyone else, what happened in their playthroughs regarding Cullen ought to be respected and reflected if he shows up in DA3. Those things can make him so antithetical to mages that having him as a party member in a party that includes mages makes no sense. I'd expect him to slit my mage's thoat in my sleep, honestly. If he turns out a mage lover in your imports, then that should be reflected if he shows up. If he's a full on monster, like he can be, that should also be reflected. His history in Dragon Age so far does not lend him to being a long term party member in DA3. Making him a companion would require ignoring a large number of playthroughs' end states. I don't want my stories to be disregarded just to get him in. And if I run into a serial killer Cullen in my playthrough, I want an oppurtunity to end his string of murders, to kill him off, or not, depending on your playthrough.

Ok, I've played as a male Mage in DA:O, Cullen isn't the one who has Lily shipped off to be "tortured" it's Gregoir who demands that she be sent away, Cullen isn't even in that scene. Nor does he ever mention wanting Mages to be made tranquil just because they aren't progressing quick enough in their studies. Infact, if you talk to him he makes it very clear that he takes no joy in the possibility of having to harm any Mage, during the Harrowing or other.

As for his attitude during the Broken Circle, of course he's going to react wildly, he's been tortured for weeks and had to watch all his Templar brothers die. And in regards to Cullen's DA:O epilogues, whether it was wrong to do so or not and regardless of whether we like it or not they HAVE been retconned, they were retconned in The Witch Hunt dlc during which time two circle Mages mention that he was sent away to the Chantry in Greenfell to "level out." Was it wrong of the DA team to do that? Yes, I believe it was. Can anything be done about it? Nope.

[brushyourteeth]

I have Word of God on this one:

David Gaider: "He's very sweet. Poor guy, goes through life, he's at the Ferelden Tower, doesn't realize he's surrounded by blood mages. Goes to Kirkwall, doesn't realize he's surrounded by blood mages. Gonna end up with a little bit of a complex, he's like "Wow, I'm a lousy Templar!" ... I could have plans right now and "Yeah, totally, we'd have him in the party and everything!" and then next week that would change, so I'm always leery of making promises. I like Cullen. I joke about him in some ways but I like the arc he represents. There are some minor characters, like Sandal for instance, I like the idea of having them be a unifying factor. Like R2D2 and C-3PO manage to make their way into every sort of plot. Every major story has the Maker's witnesses, who witness the big chances that are occurring, a bit of connecting tissue between the games. And there are things I think can be done with Cullen. I like the idea that he has confronted probably the worst that the mages have, he's encountered the worst of what mages can do. Yet he hasn't done what some Templars have done, like Meredith, or--I keep wanting to call him Knight Divine--Lord Seeker Lambert in the novel, how they have reacted is to become very anti-mage and very judgemental and to paint all the mages in the same basic plot, a few bad apples spoils the bunch. Cullen to me represents another side of Templars which is a side that we need to keep active. Not all Templars are these heartless bastards who would happily torture mages, that's not true, there are Templars who are good people. I think Cullen is a good man who recognizes that there are dangerous in magic, dangers that have to be dealt with, but he doesn't lack for compassion and doesn't try to say "Well, let's take the hard approach and kill everybody and let the Maker sort them out." At the end of DA2 he's the person who sort of tries to put on the brakes, the voice of sanity if you will. I think that's important to represent, so in that respect I like the idea of Cullen reappearing, I like that element of his character, so it's definitely a possibility."

Hope that sheds some light on things.

[LolaLei]

There you have it folks, Darth Gaider hath spoken!

[Eternal Phoenix]

Finally!

Hopefully Cullen is a companion then.

And give him some epic templar armor to boot!

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 16 mai 2012 - 10:32 .

[LolaLei]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Finally!

Hopefully Cullen is a companion then.

And give him some epic templar armor to boot!

The part where he says: "I like the idea of Cullen reappearing, I like that element of his character, so it's definitely a possibility" fills me with hope, so fingers crossed we'll have him as a companion/LI in DA3!

[Eternal Phoenix]

Well I hope David Gaiettader goes through with the idea. Like others have said, what was the point of giving him a major role and building him up through two games if he isn't going to reappear? It's kinda of like not having Flemeth in future Dragon Age games despite her role in saving both The Warden and Hawke and assisting them somewhat in their journey.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Finally!

Hopefully Cullen is a companion then.

And give him some epic templar armor to boot!

It's like including Javik in ME3. He's a great character, but doesn't guarantee the greatness of the game.

Modifié par Imperial Sentinel Arian, 19 mai 2012 - 06:55 .

[DarkDragon777]

I'll pass, thank you. As if Alistair weren't annoying enough.....

[Kyle Kabanya]

DA3 is supposedly going to occur after the events of Origins and DA2. So therefore Cullen is old and out of shape to be a teammate. And sadly no Warden.

Second, Templars need the pauldron armor from Origins. As long as that armor makes a comeback, I'm fine.