362 réponses à ce sujet

[MikeC99]

RedTail F22 wrote...

Cant believe I read all that lol. Very well done and an impressive analysis.

Many thanks. If I could afford to mint medals I'd send one out to any one who actually reads through the whole thing!!!
cheers
MikeC

[Mad-Hamlet]

The pool is sound at 2,000 or so. Though I would be interested to know what countries were sampled. I'm no statician but the data itself seems sound and the results echo with my own feelings nicely.

This is fine work indeed and should be compared to others to paint a larger picture of the situation. Well done.

[MikeC99]

Mad-Hamlet wrote...

The pool is sound at 2,000 or so. Though I would be interested to know what countries were sampled. I'm no statician but the data itself seems sound and the results echo with my own feelings nicely.

This is fine work indeed and should be compared to others to paint a larger picture of the situation. Well done.

Respondents were from 66 countries - volunteers and obviously 'interested parties' rather than any sort of random sample, but it was never meant to be that. Actually I was a bit surprised by some of the findings, and some of my favourite issue didn't get ranked as highly as I hoped - but heck, I can take one for the team!

Stay tuned for follow up - sometime in the next week ... provided the coffe holds out!!!!
cheers
MikeC

[MikeC99]

We've made some hard copies to send out to Bioware and selected journos and media contacts. Below is text of cover letter. Any ideas as to who hard copy might be best approach for, please suggest away!!!  Old school I know, but my experience is that often internal mail delivery systems just do their thing and copies actually end up on someone's desk. Also, some folks prefer to have something tangible to read. Yes yes I know they could all end up in the bin and I'm sorry for the trees - but you know, web, computers, energy all = something burning. Unless you happen to live in south-west Tasmania, or South Island of New Zealand and can claim hydro-power takes care of it all. Please note second last paragraph - we will really need folks to get on board for that cause after that it's a case of '... and that's all she wrote!' and heaven help the hindmost ... and a million other cliches for : we're done!!



Dear

Please find enclosed a copy of the ‘Mass Effect 3 : Towards A Consensus’ report. This report was compiled from the results of a user survey conducted between the 7th and 16th April 2012. The survey had 2076 participants from 66 different countries, representing 2066 individuals who participated.

          The purpose of this survey was to examine the issues people had with the ending of Mass Effect 3, in order to provide a clearer focus on the major issues across the whole of the community. This report presents the findings of the survey, and is presented as a sincere attempt to assist Bioware in addressing the issues perceived as most pertinent by the general ME community. 

While the survey and this report are based on attempting to reach a consensus on the issues concerning Mass Effect 3 users, we acknowledge that no amalgamation or summary of the breadth of issues will meet everyone’s needs or
necessarily prioritise the issues according to everyone’s perceptions. Having said that, a basic premise for trying to reach a consensus is that a limited and simple but clear message is more likely to be heard and understood than a
complex and disorganised one.  Likewise, a pragmatic solution that can be realistically expected to be delivered, in
whole or part, is preferable to a more idealized solution that is highly unlikely to be, or cannot be implemented.

We have also been heartened by the support and encouragement of the Mass Effect community through the various forums to persist with this process.

Based on the results of this survey and the analysis report, there appears to be a reasonable framework to identify
what realistic steps could be taken to address the major issues highlighted through the survey. To this end, we are working towards a follow up survey  to specifically seek feedback from Mass Effect users on options for best addressing these issues, and to provide operational principles and realistic solutions for Bioware to consider.

We hope this report, and the follow up information, which we hope to complete in the next fortnight, will be a
useful tool for further constructive dialogue and action.

Yours faithfully,

Modifié par MikeC99, 20 avril 2012 - 09:46 .

[Veloric Wu]

You folks are awesome! Let's keep the pressure up!

[MikeC99]

Shameless. Am bumping out of self interest.
Humble. Reminding that ideas are needed.
Respectful. Please refer to my previous posting.
Thankful. Your attention is gladly accepted.

[clarkusdarkus]

well put together OP, its an insult if bioware didnt get to read and analyze it as 700 pages of there " yes we are listening to the endings" thread proves they dont listen/care. somehow this needs to find a way to there office. well done and everyone needs to read it.

[MikeC99]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

well put together OP, its an insult if bioware didnt get to read and analyze it as 700 pages of there " yes we are listening to the endings" thread proves they dont listen/care. somehow this needs to find a way to there office. well done and everyone needs to read it.

Thanks for the support - much appreciated! Ofish and I have been concentrating on getting the follow up designed - but next week we'll hit 'em hard with the current report! Well - in a civil way of course!
cheers
MikeC

[Asch Lavigne]

I really hope they take this seriously. I would hate for the EC to just be the stuff the devs think needs clarification instead of what the audience wants.

I may have missed it in all the pages but I wanted to know what the point of the Collectors were. If the Reapers were just going to show up and turn us all into more Reapers, why did they need the Collectors?? To get a head start?

Edit: I suppose that would fall under "Ask the Catalyst questions."

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 20 avril 2012 - 12:15 .

[MikeC99]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I really hope they take this seriously. I would hate for the EC to just be the stuff the devs think needs clarification instead of what the audience wants.

I may have missed it in all the pages but I wanted to know what the point of the Collectors were. If the Reapers were just going to show up and turn us all into more Reapers, why did they need the Collectors?? To get a head start?

Edit: I suppose that would fall under "Ask the Catalyst questions."

"Ask the Catalyst questions." - OK we both know that list runs twelve times round Palavan and half way to its moon! But yes, these are the soughts of questions one could well ask. The survey and report aren't about the specifics. There's a wealth of material already on these forums and some folks have put a lot of thought into cogent and meaningful endings. What we're trying to do is to provide clarification (BINGO - I got to use the C word!) as to what the major issues are. The majority of respondents made it pretty clear: keep the main themes established in ME up front and flow into and through to the very end  of the ending; make previous decisions matter to the ending; and sort out the Catalyst one way or another. Bit of paraphrasing but that's them in a nutshell. Other issues matter and there are inter-relationships between things, so it's not a simple well there they are, go fix. But Ofish and I are working on the next phase which will try to link the big issues with some clear principles for Bioware to address them.

LOL - long winded answer to a question you didn't really ask!!     Anyway - much thanks for the support!
cheers
MikeC

Modifié par MikeC99, 20 avril 2012 - 12:31 .

[PrimeOfValor]

This proves the ending is illogical, the more we try to understand it, the worse the ending seems for most mass effect fans, this paper highly proves. No form of entertainment contradicts themselves at the very end other than horror and mysterious genres.

[Asch Lavigne]

MikeC99 wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I really hope they take this seriously. I would hate for the EC to just be the stuff the devs think needs clarification instead of what the audience wants.

I may have missed it in all the pages but I wanted to know what the point of the Collectors were. If the Reapers were just going to show up and turn us all into more Reapers, why did they need the Collectors?? To get a head start?

Edit: I suppose that would fall under "Ask the Catalyst questions."

"Ask the Catalyst questions." - OK we both know that list runs twelve times round Palavan and half way to its moon! But yes, these are the soughts of questions one could well ask. The survey and report aren't about the specifics. There's a wealth of material already on these forums and some folks have put a lot of thought into cogent and meaningful endings. What we're trying to do is to provide clarification (BINGO - I got to use the C word!) as to what the major issues are. The majority of respondents made it pretty clear: keep the main themes established in ME up front and flow into and through to the very end  of the ending; make previous decisions matter to the ending; and sort out the Catalyst one way or another. Bit of paraphrasing but that's them in a nutshell. Other issues matter and there are inter-relationships between things, so it's not a simple well there they are, go fix. But Ofish and I are working on the next phase which will try to link the big issues with some clear principles for Bioware to address them.

LOL - long winded answer to a question you didn't really ask!!     Anyway - much thanks for the support!
cheers
MikeC

Sorry, that's one of my top 3 questions I want answered. Again, I suppose that falls into the "keep the themes established in ME upfront and flow into and through to the very end."

And in case it got overshadowed, great job and I hope all your hard work helps somehow in the end. It was nice to see a poll/survey that turned into something other than just people being curious about random thing x.

[Severyx]

Very nicely handled. +1000 You have my respect for getting a proper statistics sample without all the irritating ranting and baseless opinions.

Upfront data, nice and clean. This is how it should be done, people.

[Kreid]

I think you should direct it to either Mr. Mike Gamble or Mr. Casey Hudson, they are the producers after all.

[PsyrenY]

Izithel wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Isn't 2000 less than 1% of total players?

Almost all Surveys and research samples small amounts of the population.

Imagine asking everysingle person who played the game his opinion, impossible.
Instead they try to get a reasonably sized and diverse group of people to get an idea of what the greater whole is.


2000 might sound small, but I've seen lower samples been used in official statistics.

Small samples are okay so long as they are representative. The forums are unfortunately not representative of the fanbase as a whole.

[MikeC99]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Izithel wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Isn't 2000 less than 1% of total players?

Almost all Surveys and research samples small amounts of the population.

Imagine asking everysingle person who played the game his opinion, impossible.
Instead they try to get a reasonably sized and diverse group of people to get an idea of what the greater whole is.


2000 might sound small, but I've seen lower samples been used in official statistics.

Small samples are okay so long as they are representative. The forums are unfortunately not representative of the fanbase as a whole.

No argument from me - but as I said before, we specifically focussed on the subset who weren't happy with the ending. Now if we'd not said so, then I would be the first to lay my neck on the block .....  and as I've also said, there is no reason to assume that the 'population' of BSN are not representative of themselves. I think 16% of respondents weren't on BSN. But this forum has Bioware logos all over it - and is the official social network for Bioware. And Bioware make ME3. Anyway - yes, small sample size, but that doesn't make the results 'wrong' just flagged with warning signs. Again - we've tried to be really clear about the limitations. The claim that the sample is biased because unhappy people are more likely to log into surveys is actually teetering on a circular argument. I can only say - yes that's right. So, as we are trying to find out what particular issues people are unhappy about... not sure what the argument really is about bias from BSN. I understand what's being argued, I just think that logic itself is flawed. But I sincerely appreciate criticism - as long as it's provided with some evisdence or clear argument and isn't destructive with no real intent to rectify.
cheers
MikeC

[PsyrenY]

MikeC99 wrote...

No argument from me - but as I said before, we specifically focussed on the subset who weren't happy with the ending. Now if we'd not said so, then I would be the first to lay my neck on the block .....  and as I've also said, there is no reason to assume that the 'population' of BSN are not representative of themselves. I think 16% of respondents weren't on BSN. But this forum has Bioware logos all over it - and is the official social network for Bioware. And Bioware make ME3. Anyway - yes, small sample size, but that doesn't make the results 'wrong' just f,lagged with warning signs. Again - we've tried to be really clear about the limitations. The claim that the sample is biased because unhappy people are more likely to log into surveys is actually teetering on a circular argument. I can only say - yes that's right. So, as we are trying to find out what particular issues people are unhappy about... not sure what the argument really is about bias from BSN. I understand what's being argued, I just think that logic itself is flawed. But I sincerely appreciate criticism - as long as it's provided with some evisdence or clear argument and isn't destructive with no real intent to rectify.
cheers
MikeC

So the conclusion is not so much "most people hated the endings" (your sample already largely excludes those who were neutral or in favor of them) as it is "here is what people who didn't like the endings, didn't like the most?"

If that's the case I have no problems. Though there are plenty of people in this thread who (erroneously) think it's the former.

[MikeC99]

Optimystic_X wrote...

MikeC99 wrote...

No argument from me - but as I said before, we specifically focussed on the subset who weren't happy with the ending. Now if we'd not said so, then I would be the first to lay my neck on the block .....  etc .
cheers
MikeC

So the conclusion is not so much "most people hated the endings" (your sample already largely excludes those who were neutral or in favor of them) as it is "here is what people who didn't like the endings, didn't like the most?"

If that's the case I have no problems. Though there are plenty of people in this thread who (erroneously) think it's the former.

Thanks for getting back on this - but absolutely yes that's what it was about. I honestly don't have a problem with anyone liking the ending. I think it's seriously flawed independent of my likes and dislikes, but that's the result of a one person survey!   I respect your point of view though.
cheers

Modifié par MikeC99, 20 avril 2012 - 05:41 .

[ioannisdenton]

i am somewhat optimistic that someone will eventually give a good read. this terrific survey will at least give some feedback into the ending.
very good job.
also i find the hard copy is actually a very neat idea.
Also BUMP!

[ioannisdenton]

MikeC99 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

MikeC99 wrote...

No argument from me - but as I said before, we specifically focussed on the subset who weren't happy with the ending. Now if we'd not said so, then I would be the first to lay my neck on the block .....  etc .
cheers
MikeC

So the conclusion is not so much "most people hated the endings" (your sample already largely excludes those who were neutral or in favor of them) as it is "here is what people who didn't like the endings, didn't like the most?"

If that's the case I have no problems. Though there are plenty of people in this thread who (erroneously) think it's the former.

Thanks for getting back on this - but absolutely yes that's what it was about. I honestly don't have a problem with anyone liking the ending. I think it's seriously flawed independent of my likes and dislikes, but that's the result of a one person survey!   I respect your point of view though.
cheers

there is a survey that proves that for most people the ending was bad written.
i really fail to see how anyone can actually liked the ending at all and felt 
rewarded after all the journey from Me1 to Me3. no offence here.

Modifié par ioannisdenton, 20 avril 2012 - 06:30 .

[logan23tom78]

wow

[PsyrenY]

ioannisdenton wrote...

there is a survey that proves that for most people the ending was bad written.
i really fail to see how anyone can actually liked the ending at all and felt 
rewarded after all the journey from Me1 to Me3. no offence here.

I spoke poorly. Most of us do indeed agree the ending was bad. What is dividing the fanbase so much is "those who think DLC can salvage it" and "those who want it scrapped entirely and redone."

[BinaryHelix101]

Great thread. Happy to say I got to participate in this survey, and I'm glad the opinions I provided were not put into the hands of dimwits.

[ioannisdenton]

Optimystic_X wrote...

ioannisdenton wrote...

there is a survey that proves that for most people the ending was bad written.
i really fail to see how anyone can actually liked the ending at all and felt 
rewarded after all the journey from Me1 to Me3. no offence here.

I spoke poorly. Most of us do indeed agree the ending was bad. What is dividing the fanbase so much is "those who think DLC can salvage it" and "those who want it scrapped entirely and redone."

well "anything we can salvage is at least worth getting" is my opinion. i wish the whole part after the elevator would be erased from all media but at this pont i simply want a reason to care for mass effect again. 

Modifié par ioannisdenton, 20 avril 2012 - 06:50 .

[ofish]

*bump* for the afternoon crowd