352 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Jeb231 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

The fate of the galaxy and the true knowledge of the Catalyst is for Shepard alone.

Yes, It for SHepard alone because he is the chosen one, chosen bythe gods to direct the direction ofall organic lifr./endsarcasum.

Really, this an Ai from a race of Machiens with great deception who go on and tells you nothing about the galexy.....You really think he is telling you the truth now.

Right, so what be the moral of the story if the catalyst was a lieing
sack of balls? Let's face it...They've tried to pull a matrix 3 and
didn't even manage to do that. Catalyst doesn't have to lift the
platform if he wants to kill shepard. Choices are dependant on EMS. Once
again it woudn't make sense if the catalyst were in control of the
crucible. Lastly, the simpliest solution is often the correct one.

People are refuting it because the logic ued is dumb and the endings were awful. It simly failed to properly perform its task which was plot exposition.

Last time I check...ME3 has no ending....In fact , they are making an EC DLC...So really, we can make any arguement on the reality of the cayatyst we want. We can go father then that but that would derail the topic.
And about ems, taking about whatit mean would lead to a reqonce thatwill derail the topic as well.

Modifié par dreman9999, 19 avril 2012 - 05:59 .

[Jeb231]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jeb231 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

The fate of the galaxy and the true knowledge of the Catalyst is for Shepard alone.

Yes, It for SHepard alone because he is the chosen one, chosen bythe gods to direct the direction ofall organic lifr./endsarcasum.

Really, this an Ai from a race of Machiens with great deception who go on and tells you nothing about the galexy.....You really think he is telling you the truth now.

Right, so what be the moral of the story if the catalyst was a lieing
sack of balls? Let's face it...They've tried to pull a matrix 3 and
didn't even manage to do that. Catalyst doesn't have to lift the
platform if he wants to kill shepard. Choices are dependant on EMS. Once
again it woudn't make sense if the catalyst were in control of the
crucible. Lastly, the simpliest solution is often the correct one.

People are refuting it because the logic ued is dumb and the endings were awful. It simly failed to properly perform its task which was plot exposition.

Last time I check...ME3 has no ending....In fact , they are making an EC DLC...So really, we can make any arguement on the reality of the cayatyst we want. We can go father then that but that would derail the topic.
And about ems, taking about whatit mean would lead to a reqonce thatwill derail the topic as well.

I'm pretty sure there are muliple endings to ME3. You just didn't like them (neither did I). I'm also pretty sure Bioware said they wouldn't change the endings which kinda implies we already have endings.

[Galifreya]

dreman9999 wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You can't, because his assertions are unprovable. He uses logical fallacies, assumptions and circular logic to justify it's psychopathic insanity.

The mere fact that organic life was never totally exterminated before the Reapers existed disproves everything it claims.

YES. This. All organic life has never been completely eradicated, so their logic is faulty. Just like the Salarians, who "uplifted" the Krogan before their time. So they "had" to resort to the Genophage.

Too many variables. You can't decide the fate of such a large number of beings based on something that MIGHT happen, but has never, to date, actually happened. It's rubbish.

W e don't no that. We are finite. All organic life could of been killed off and over time with the creation of new system, life could of redeveloped. Remeber, these are time less machines, they couldof seen it. Also, there job is to perserve organic life and keep balance.

All organic life has never been wiped out in the ME universe. This is something the Reapers -think- will happen (or they just -tell- us they think will happen, and know it's not a certainty), UNLESS they intervene. Which, according to them, they have -always- done, since the very first cycle. But organic life has persisted. On some backwater planet or elsewhere, organic life was NOT wiped out, even in the very first cycle.

But according to the Reapers, organic life was "allowed" to continue to exist. Soveriegn's own words. "You exist because we allow it." Why? What is the point, if they are only going to bring about their own destruction? Why save them from themselves, if it is just going to repeat the next time something evolves? It just doesn't jibe.

And each cycle is only 50,000 years. Not a sufficient amount of time for anything to evolve a significant amount. It takes a lot longer than that for sapient/sentient life to emerge. So the Reapers have left many multiple species alone before. Probably even during the very first cycle. But why? Why wasn't ALL organic life wiped out during the very first cycle? Did the Reapers somehow make that impossible calculation? To see that the synthetics -they- created before they became the abomination that they are, would somehow find ALL organic life in the galaxy and destroy it? THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CALCULATE.

The very simple answer is that the Reapers are playing God. It's disgusting, and they should be destroyed. Not allowed to leave (only to possibly come back later), or merge with, the galaxy that they'd tormented for millenia. How horrible would that be? To be fused, on a genetic level, with machines that have murdered trillions and trillions over billions of years. To become -the same exact thing-.

Remember how Shepard said that re-writing the Geth heretics might be traumatic for the Geth who had not become heretics? They would share the same experiences that the heretics experienced. Synthesis is the same thing. It re-writes everything in the galaxy to be like the Reapers. A mix of organic and synthetic. And ONE PERSON is allowed to make this call.

No. It's wrong. Shepard, of all people, should know how wrong that is. The player should know it as well.

[dreman9999]

Jeb231 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jeb231 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

The fate of the galaxy and the true knowledge of the Catalyst is for Shepard alone.

Yes, It for SHepard alone because he is the chosen one, chosen bythe gods to direct the direction ofall organic lifr./endsarcasum.

Really, this an Ai from a race of Machiens with great deception who go on and tells you nothing about the galexy.....You really think he is telling you the truth now.

Right, so what be the moral of the story if the catalyst was a lieing
sack of balls? Let's face it...They've tried to pull a matrix 3 and
didn't even manage to do that. Catalyst doesn't have to lift the
platform if he wants to kill shepard. Choices are dependant on EMS. Once
again it woudn't make sense if the catalyst were in control of the
crucible. Lastly, the simpliest solution is often the correct one.

People are refuting it because the logic ued is dumb and the endings were awful. It simly failed to properly perform its task which was plot exposition.

Last time I check...ME3 has no ending....In fact , they are making an EC DLC...So really, we can make any arguement on the reality of the cayatyst we want. We can go father then that but that would derail the topic.
And about ems, taking about whatit mean would lead to a reqonce thatwill derail the topic as well.

I'm pretty sure there are muliple endings to ME3. You just didn't like them (neither did I). I'm also pretty sure Bioware said they wouldn't change the endings which kinda implies we already have endings.

Again, with use facing a race of machines that can warp the truth,he factbw is make EC, the question of the star kid is telling the truth....We really can't say what really happened.  If you can tell be what happen in EC then you can tell me what really happens in the end.

Modifié par dreman9999, 19 avril 2012 - 07:47 .

[Jeb231]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jeb231 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jeb231 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

The fate of the galaxy and the true knowledge of the Catalyst is for Shepard alone.

Yes, It for SHepard alone because he is the chosen one, chosen bythe gods to direct the direction ofall organic lifr./endsarcasum.

Really, this an Ai from a race of Machiens with great deception who go on and tells you nothing about the galexy.....You really think he is telling you the truth now.

Right, so what be the moral of the story if the catalyst was a lieing
sack of balls? Let's face it...They've tried to pull a matrix 3 and
didn't even manage to do that. Catalyst doesn't have to lift the
platform if he wants to kill shepard. Choices are dependant on EMS. Once
again it woudn't make sense if the catalyst were in control of the
crucible. Lastly, the simpliest solution is often the correct one.

People are refuting it because the logic ued is dumb and the endings were awful. It simly failed to properly perform its task which was plot exposition.

Last time I check...ME3 has no ending....In fact , they are making an EC DLC...So really, we can make any arguement on the reality of the cayatyst we want. We can go father then that but that would derail the topic.
And about ems, taking about whatit mean would lead to a reqonce thatwill derail the topic as well.

I'm pretty sure there are muliple endings to ME3. You just didn't like them (neither did I). I'm also pretty sure Bioware said they wouldn't change the endings which kinda implies we already have endings.

Again, with use facing a race of machines that can warp the turth,he factbw is make EC, the question of the star kid is telling the truth....We really can't say what really happened.  If you can tell be what happen in EC then you can tell me what really happens in the end.

It's not what I'm saying, my point was that you should be prepared for the simpliest explanation to be the correct one (as the november leak seems to confirm).

Modifié par Jeb231, 19 avril 2012 - 06:17 .

[dreman9999]

Gallifreya wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You can't, because his assertions are unprovable. He uses logical fallacies, assumptions and circular logic to justify it's psychopathic insanity.

The mere fact that organic life was never totally exterminated before the Reapers existed disproves everything it claims.

YES. This. All organic life has never been completely eradicated, so their logic is faulty. Just like the Salarians, who "uplifted" the Krogan before their time. So they "had" to resort to the Genophage.

Too many variables. You can't decide the fate of such a large number of beings based on something that MIGHT happen, but has never, to date, actually happened. It's rubbish.

W e don't no that. We are finite. All organic life could of been killed off and over time with the creation of new system, life could of redeveloped. Remeber, these are time less machines, they couldof seen it. Also, there job is to perserve organic life and keep balance.

All organic life has never been wiped out in the ME universe. This is something the Reapers -think- will happen (or they just -tell- us they think will happen, and know it's not a certainty), UNLESS they intervene. Which, according to them, they have -always- done, since the very first cycle. But organic life has persisted. On some backwater planet or elsewhere, organic life was NOT wiped out, even in the very first cycle.

But according to the Reapers, organic life was "allowed" to continue to exist. Soveriegn's own words. "You exist because we allow it." Why? What is the point, if they are only going to bring about their own destruction? Why save them from themselves, if it is just going to repeat the next time something evolves? It just doesn't jibe.

And each cycle is only 50,000 years. Not a sufficient amount of time for anything to evolve a significant amount. It takes a lot longer than that for sapient/sentient life to emerge. So the Reapers have left many multiple species alone before. Probably even during the very first cycle. But why? Why wasn't ALL organic life wiped out during the very first cycle? Did the Reapers somehow make that impossible calculation? To see that the synthetics -they- created before they became the abomination that they are, would somehow find ALL organic life in the galaxy and destroy it? THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CALCULATE.

The very simple answer is that the Reapers are playing God. It's disgusting, and they should be destroyed. Not allowed to leave (only to possibly come back later), or merge with, the galaxy that they'd tormented for millenia. How horrible would that be? To be fused, on a genetic level, with machines that have murdered trillions and trillions over billions of years. To become -the same exact thing-.

Remember how Shepard said that re-writing the Geth heretics might be traumatic for the Geth who had not become heretics? They would share the same experiences that the heretics experienced. Synthesis is the same thing. It re-writes everything in the galaxy to be like the Reapers. A mix of organic and synthetic. And ONE PERSON is allowed to make this call.

No. It's wrong. Shepard, of all people, should know how wrong that is. The player should know it as well.

1.You finite. You don't know, you can't know, you will not know. To say that it's not true is to say you can prove it...You can't.
2.To say that the fact the we exsist show the life had not been killed off is also not proof...We are a differnt form of life then what was in the past. With how the way system are created, for life to begin a new from a total galactic extiction event is not farfetch.
3.The reaper goal to to peserve life..... They don't think we will destory the universe. They don't think nor said we will kill off all life till the point that life never can be restored. Their say are action will cause our and other form of lifes destruction. They want to perseve us.
4. Thereaper are timeless, they could easilly seen it happen.
5.The reaper are not interesting in debating their beleifs...It clear that they havewatch orginc life, the fact that they used the relays fora trap for organic make that clear. The fact remains they are not here to debate their beleifs...They don't want to or see the need to. There here to impose their beliefs.

Modifié par dreman9999, 19 avril 2012 - 06:27 .

[dreman9999]

Jeb231 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jeb231 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jeb231 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

The fate of the galaxy and the true knowledge of the Catalyst is for Shepard alone.

Yes, It for SHepard alone because he is the chosen one, chosen bythe gods to direct the direction ofall organic lifr./endsarcasum.

Really, this an Ai from a race of Machiens with great deception who go on and tells you nothing about the galexy.....You really think he is telling you the truth now.

Right, so what be the moral of the story if the catalyst was a lieing
sack of balls? Let's face it...They've tried to pull a matrix 3 and
didn't even manage to do that. Catalyst doesn't have to lift the
platform if he wants to kill shepard. Choices are dependant on EMS. Once
again it woudn't make sense if the catalyst were in control of the
crucible. Lastly, the simpliest solution is often the correct one.

People are refuting it because the logic ued is dumb and the endings were awful. It simly failed to properly perform its task which was plot exposition.

Last time I check...ME3 has no ending....In fact , they are making an EC DLC...So really, we can make any arguement on the reality of the cayatyst we want. We can go father then that but that would derail the topic.
And about ems, taking about whatit mean would lead to a reqonce thatwill derail the topic as well.

I'm pretty sure there are muliple endings to ME3. You just didn't like them (neither did I). I'm also pretty sure Bioware said they wouldn't change the endings which kinda implies we already have endings.

Again, with use facing a race of machines that can warp the turth,he factbw is make EC, the question of the star kid is telling the truth....We really can't say what really happened.  If you can tell be what happen in EC then you can tell me what really happens in the end.

I'm not what I'm saying, my point was that you should be prepared for the simpliest explanation to be the correct one (as the november leak seems to confirm).

And as I said before the leaks comfirm nothing. You knot understand that thae script would not have everything stated that the devs planned for the game.

[DiE231]

Saying that the star kid is a liar is just another asspull excuse from BW in a desperate attempt to save their ''artistic integrity''.

[dreman9999]

DiE231 wrote...

Saying that the star kid is a liar is just another asspull excuse from BW in a desperate attempt to save their ''artistic integrity''.

You do know I don't work for BW...

[PsyrenY]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Hindsight reasoning again.  But if I have to preface every comment with it, I guess I will.  As far as Shepard knows at the time he makes the decision, all of the choices end in Shepard's death.

Incorrect, again. Only two of the choices are explicitly said to lead to your death. Shepard would reasonably believe that Destroy has a chance, albeit slim, of survival; otherwise, the AI would have confirmed his death for all three.

jumpingkaede wrote...

Trying to make the point that, normally, when someone tells you to kill yourself and stuff will happen you don't just blindly obey.  Especially when the stuff that will happen is a non sequitur to killing yourself.

That is a good argument against control, which is why I would never pick that option without knowing more.

But Synthesis? It makes sense that disseminating myself will enable it, because (a) I saw Legion do something very similar on Rannoch, and ( I am a hybrid of organic and synthetic myself. So I have reason to believe it will work.

But more importantly, I'm unwilling to risk killing the Geth over a hunch, and I'm similarly unwilling to take TIM's option without a bunch more assurances.

jumpingkaede wrote...
Distinction without a difference, since he also adds that Shepard will be dead.  Equivalent to "to control us, kill yourself" and "to achieve synthesis, kill yourself."

No reasoning or explanation is given as to how Shepard's death leads to control or synthesis.

As I explained above, Synthesis does allude to that information. if I'm adding my energy to the Crucible, my own body can't very well be using it at the same time.

I agree, again, that Control is too vague to be taken out of anything less than purest desperation as-is.

[DiE231]

dreman9999 wrote...

DiE231 wrote...

Saying that the star kid is a liar is just another asspull excuse from BW in a desperate attempt to save their ''artistic integrity''.

You do know I don't work for BW...

Yeah, you're not the first one to ''hint'' that we shouldn't take starkid crap for granted, the first one to do it was Mr. Bioware on twitter (can't remember which)

Modifié par DiE231, 19 avril 2012 - 06:32 .

[Jeb231]

DiE231 wrote...

Saying that the star kid is a liar is just another asspull excuse from BW in a desperate attempt to save their ''artistic integrity''.

So much this. November scripts leaks say so. November was the month originally planned for ME3 until it was delayed. It also was the month Sheen recorded the last VA session pushed back from August because the endings weren't finalized at that point (as seen in the IOS app).

[Talogrungi]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Incorrect, again. Only two of the choices are explicitly said to lead to your death. Shepard would reasonably believe that Destroy has a chance, albeit slim, of survival; otherwise, the AI would have confirmed his death for all three.

I don't think Shepard's actions at choosing the Destroy ending are compatible with him having a reasonable belief in survival. He walks into the explosion. I mean; why would he do that?

[dreman9999]

DiE231 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DiE231 wrote...

Saying that the star kid is a liar is just another asspull excuse from BW in a desperate attempt to save their ''artistic integrity''.

You do know I don't work for BW...

Yeah, you're not the first one to ''hint'' that we shouldn't take starkid crap for granted, the first one to do it was some Mr. Bioware on twitter (can't remember which)

But really,his is a race of machines wih a hstory of deception....You really say they are not try to trick us now.

[dreman9999]

Talogrungi wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Incorrect, again. Only two of the choices are explicitly said to lead to your death. Shepard would reasonably believe that Destroy has a chance, albeit slim, of survival; otherwise, the AI would have confirmed his death for all three.

I don't think Shepard's actions at choosing the Destroy ending are compatible with him having a reasonable belief in survival. He walks into the explosion. I mean; why would he do that?

And then after said explotion we see him alive in rubble....

[dreman9999]

Jeb231 wrote...

DiE231 wrote...

Saying that the star kid is a liar is just another asspull excuse from BW in a desperate attempt to save their ''artistic integrity''.

So much this. November scripts leaks say so. November was the month originally planned for ME3 until it was delayed. It also was the month Sheen recorded the last VA session pushed back from August because the endings weren't finalized at that point (as seen in the IOS app).

How can you not understand this. What ever is in the script and in the game is just what ever BW want to show to us for now. It just an organization of what's in the game. It not showningeverything they are planning, just Like ME1 SCRITP AND me2's script. The fact remain the whole story is not shown the script. The fact the they are making an EC make it clear they still have more story to tell and thing to show use. Saying it's true becauseof a script that has a narrow perspective given to the veiwer doesn't proveit's true.

[PsyrenY]

Talogrungi wrote...

I don't think Shepard's actions at choosing the Destroy ending are compatible with him having a reasonable belief in survival. He walks into the explosion. I mean; why would he do that?

Because CARNIFEX.

The gun's sheer awesome shields you from explosions, everyone knows that.

[OhoniX]

We infer what he said happens, because we see reapers fly away and
then the credits roll, but we actually dont know what the writers
intentions were with each ending.

Don't argue nonsense. If the ending shows the Reapers flying away, and there's nothing showing them coming back, then it's safe to assume that "the ending worked" and they actually went away. It's ridiculous to make assumptions about the ending going off in a completely different direction that is in no way hinted at during the actual ending itself. It'd be like watching the ending of Jedi and then assuming that the bonfires set the entire Ewok forrest on fire and everyone dies.

[pistolols]

dreman9999 wrote...

pistolols wrote...

he's telling the truth because he allows us to destroy the reapers even though doing that won't solve his chaos problem. It's hard to imagine this would be an option if he was attemping to deceive us. Especially considering he could just leave shepard unconscious and eventually the reapers will destroy the crucible and continue the cycle. This leads me to believe he is telling the truth. It's also very curious how he states "The crucible changed me". My interpretation of that line has not been popular on this forum, but to me the obvious implications of an AI saying it's been "changed" is the only way the ending makes sense.

Yes, he is telling us the truth because he is allowing us to do what we were going to do anyway./SARCAUM...Like he had the ability to stop us. He really is not in control...Shep is. The fact that he is giving you more options shows he want to try to give the illustion of control. He seem to be giving you 3 options but he relly is just giving you 2 more. Out of a 3 option he stand to lose the most with destroy. He wants tou to questionthe option to make it seem to be offering it. The truth is the option is what you truly  chose to do before the star kid came up.
He  only tries to make it seem he is offering it so he can discredit it. It's the option he place most of the negative things on to.

Sorry i'm a litte late to respond, but i just wanted to point out that your response makes zero sense when you consider that with low EMS, destroy is your ONLY choice.  All interpretations of the ending should in fact be based off this default scenerio where destroy is the only choice.

And yes, he did have the ability to stop us.  All he would of had to do is leave shepard passed out unconscious, then eventually the crucible is destroyed by the reapers. (we know this because if shep takes too long to choose, that is what happens)

Starchild is telling the truth.

Modifié par pistolols, 20 avril 2012 - 03:05 .

[dreman9999]

pistolols wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

pistolols wrote...

he's telling the truth because he allows us to destroy the reapers even though doing that won't solve his chaos problem. It's hard to imagine this would be an option if he was attemping to deceive us. Especially considering he could just leave shepard unconscious and eventually the reapers will destroy the crucible and continue the cycle. This leads me to believe he is telling the truth. It's also very curious how he states "The crucible changed me". My interpretation of that line has not been popular on this forum, but to me the obvious implications of an AI saying it's been "changed" is the only way the ending makes sense.

Yes, he is telling us the truth because he is allowing us to do what we were going to do anyway./SARCAUM...Like he had the ability to stop us. He really is not in control...Shep is. The fact that he is giving you more options shows he want to try to give the illustion of control. He seem to be giving you 3 options but he relly is just giving you 2 more. Out of a 3 option he stand to lose the most with destroy. He wants tou to questionthe option to make it seem to be offering it. The truth is the option is what you truly  chose to do before the star kid came up.
He  only tries to make it seem he is offering it so he can discredit it. It's the option he place most of the negative things on to.

Sorry i'm a litte late to respond, but i just wanted to point out that your response makes zero sense when you consider that with low EMS, destroy is your ONLY choice.  All interpretations of the ending should in fact be based off this default scenerio where destroy is the only choice.

And yes, he did have the ability to stop us.  All he would of had to do is leave shepard passed out unconscious, then eventually the crucible is destroyed by the reapers. (we know this because if shep takes too long to choose, that is what happens)

Starchild is telling the truth.

No, not even low ems is an indication. Listen to his tone....How he is talks down to you at low ems..... He is mocking you. He doesn't really need anything from you on a choice because he is getting what he want out of you no matter what you say at low ems.

[TK EL_]

The really funny part to me is the fact that I've seen a dev insinuate that he is partially lying, like when he says Shephard is part synthetic and he will die too, yet you can live in the destroy ending. So not only did they introduce a god character in the last 5 minutes of the game, he is apparently a lying troll. I would still be in freshman composition 101 if I turned that in as my final paper.

[dreman9999]

TK EL wrote...

The really funny part to me is the fact that I've seen a dev insinuate that he is partially lying, like when he says Shephard is part synthetic and he will die too, yet you can live in the destroy ending. So not only did they introduce a god character in the last 5 minutes of the game, he is apparently a lying troll. I would still be in freshman composition 101 if I turned that in as my final paper.

He is from a race a machines with the capabilties of great deception, you really serprised that peple think he's lieing. Heck, we don't even know if the ending really happend.

[OhoniX]

Of course "the ending really happened." You don't end a game trilogy with an ending that didn't actually happen. If there had been any validity to the "Bobby Ewing" ending theory then the reveal would have had top occur no later than the end of the credits. They can't just come back six months later and go "you know that ending that came with the game? It was all a dream sequence."

Ridiculous.

[pistolols]

TK EL wrote...

like when he says Shephard is part synthetic and he will die too, yet you can live in the destroy ending.

except he doesn't state shepard will certainly die with destroy, he only says that with control choice.  Yes, he mentions shepard being partly synthetic which seems to be relevant, and indeed, shepard does not live with low ems destroy.  But still, he does not lie there.  People keep bringing this up for some reason and it's incorrect.

It's been reprogrammed by the crucible to carry out these options whether they address his chaos problem or not.  it's not lying.

[KingZayd]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

It's not meant to be debated, either you don't believe him and let the galaxy die, or you do believe him on the chance you'll save the galaxy.

If you don't believe him that's fine, have fun letting the galaxy die forever.

Isn't it? what else does "lots of speculation" mean? The whole thing is meant to be debated. 


What if it's the other way round? Trust in him, and you doom the galaxy, don't trust him and you save the galaxy? you just don't know.