352 réponses à ce sujet

[guacamayus]

The Angry One wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah, except replace 1000 years with billions of years. Billions of years that had to have gone by before the Reapers were even a concept.

Why stop there? Go to trillions, or quadrillions even.

The point is that, to an immortal machine, all it would see is the probability of that occurrence approaching 1. The length of time it takes to do so wouldn't be relevant to its conclusion - only the preservation of the galaxy as a going concern.

The point is, it has never occured and will never occur. The Catalyst is basing everything on assumptions and self-fulfilling prophecies.

Well, many minds a lot more intelligent than me and you see it as a possiblity.
Within the ME universe, the fact the Geth were building a Dyson's Sphere at the end of ME2 pretty much proves that the catalyst wasn't so wrong after all, whatever happens after that is another topic but the synthetic race of our time was behaving exactly as the catalyst feared.

Back to the topic at hand, I don't think the Catalyst was lying but that's just a personal opinion since there are no signs that clearly resolve the issue.
In my opinion it doesn't fit with 'the crucible has changed me blah blah blah' however with so little information we can only guess.

Modifié par guacamayus, 20 avril 2012 - 08:53 .

[KingZayd]

Optimystic_X wrote...

But Synthesis? It makes sense that disseminating myself will enable it, because (a) I saw Legion do something very similar on Rannoch, and ( I am a hybrid of organic and synthetic myself. So I have reason to believe it will work.

But more importantly, I'm unwilling to risk killing the Geth over a hunch, and I'm similarly unwilling to take TIM's option without a bunch more assurances.

Legion uploaded the code directly to the Geth data core, by doing what he did. That's an existing mechanic, the very same mechanic used to rewrite/destroy the heretics in Mass effect 2.

The rest of us are unwilling to risk the fate of all the advanced races in the galaxy on the slim possibility that the Starchild is be telling the truth

[pistolols]

KingZayd wrote...

The rest of us are unwilling to risk the fate of all the advanced races in the galaxy on the slim possibility that the Starchild is be telling the truth

Yeah but bottom line is it doesn't really make sense that the catalyst would be able to utilize the crucible's capabilities to serve his own desires.  Afterall, it was built by our homies, not by the reapers or anyone indoctrinated and Shepard knows that.  And the fact that the choices don't really appear to address his chaos problem is SOLID PROOF that he clearly has very little to do with them.  He's merely presenting the capabilities of the Crucible to us.

Only thing Shepard needs to trust is the crucible.  The catalyst' words are moot.

Modifié par pistolols, 20 avril 2012 - 01:13 .

[dreman9999]

pistolols wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The rest of us are unwilling to risk the fate of all the advanced races in the galaxy on the slim possibility that the Starchild is be telling the truth

Yeah but bottom line is it doesn't really make sense that the catalyst would be able to utilize the crucible's capabilities to serve his own desires.  Afterall, it was built by our homies, not by the reapers or anyone indoctrinated and Shepard knows that.  And the fact that the choices don't really appear to address his chaos problem is SOLID PROOF that he clearly has very little to do with them.  He's merely presenting the capabilities of the Crucible to us.

Only thing Shepard needs to trust is the crucible.  The catalyst' words are moot.

bingo....

[Calamity]

pistolols wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The rest of us are unwilling to risk the fate of all the advanced races in the galaxy on the slim possibility that the Starchild is be telling the truth

Yeah but bottom line is it doesn't really make sense that the catalyst would be able to utilize the crucible's capabilities to serve his own desires.  Afterall, it was built by our homies, not by the reapers or anyone indoctrinated and Shepard knows that.  And the fact that the choices don't really appear to address his chaos problem is SOLID PROOF that he clearly has very little to do with them.  He's merely presenting the capabilities of the Crucible to us.

Only thing Shepard needs to trust is the crucible.  The catalyst' words are moot.

But nobody knows where/who the design for the crucible came from.

[D_Dude1210]

Throughout all the conversations Shepard has had with the Reapers prior to Starbrat, through all the Reaper's actions and methods through all of Shepard's experience with them. They've never shown themselves as anything more than sadistic, destructive, arrogant and extremely decietful and cunning machines bent on nothing but the annihilation of all advanced life.

Now here comes a little Starbrat who says that he controls the Reapers and the only reaction Shepard demonstrates is complete trust? How the hell does this make sense?

[Geneaux486]

Shepard's mission is to activate the Crucible at all costs.  Even though it's an unknown, even though scientists can't figure out exactly how it will release the massive amounts of energy it is capable of generating (though they knew it would somehow use the Mass Relays), the Crucible is deemed worth the risk and Shepard is sent back to Earth so that it can be hooked up and fired.  Whether or not the Catalyst is telling you the truth is irrelevant, because he's basically telling you how to activate your own weapon, which was designed specifically through the ages to stop the Reapers.  Choosing an option other than "destroy" requires a leap of faith, yes, but in the end we see that what the Catalyst tells us does come to pass.

[Rynocerous]

Jagri wrote...

Of course he isn't lying! He generally and honestly wants to stop the cycle *Snicker*

Now go choice one of the fellowing methods to die!

1) Becoming a grounding point.
2) Fall to your death.
3) Walk into a explosion.

Ignore that voice in your head suggesting it would be more logical to find a control panel with buttons.

This is quite possibly the greatest post I have ever read? Can I use this in my fan fic?

[D_Dude1210]

Except that Shepard doesn't know that. As a character, he doesn't have hindsight of the events that transpired after he made his "choice".

All he knows is this: a little kid out of nowhere who admits to being the leader/controller of an extemely sadistic, genocidal and highly decieftul race WHO IS HIS ENEMY has just told you to a) grab live cables, shoot an explosivr conduit or c) jump off a cliff. All in the hopes that MAYBE he's telling the truth (read: highly decietful). I mean COME ON! how stupid would you have to be.

I mean for all he knows the means to activate the crucible would have been to shoot this kid or something and the kid just doesn't want him to figure it out.

[dorktainian]

D_Dude1210 wrote...

Except that Shepard doesn't know that. As a character, he doesn't have hindsight of the events that transpired after he made his "choice".

All he knows is this: a little kid out of nowhere who admits to being the leader/controller of an extemely sadistic, genocidal and highly decieftul race WHO IS HIS ENEMY has just told you to a) grab live cables, shoot an explosivr conduit or c) jump off a cliff. All in the hopes that MAYBE he's telling the truth (read: highly decietful). I mean COME ON! how stupid would you have to be.

I mean for all he knows the means to activate the crucible would have been to shoot this kid or something and the kid just doesn't want him to figure it out.

[pistolols]

Calamity wrote...

pistolols wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The rest of us are unwilling to risk the fate of all the advanced races in the galaxy on the slim possibility that the Starchild is be telling the truth

Yeah but bottom line is it doesn't really make sense that the catalyst would be able to utilize the crucible's capabilities to serve his own desires.  Afterall, it was built by our homies, not by the reapers or anyone indoctrinated and Shepard knows that.  And the fact that the choices don't really appear to address his chaos problem is SOLID PROOF that he clearly has very little to do with them.  He's merely presenting the capabilities of the Crucible to us.

Only thing Shepard needs to trust is the crucible.  The catalyst' words are moot.

But nobody knows where/who the design for the crucible came from.

We know it was designed collaboratively through the ages by people fighting the reapers.

[The Night Mammoth]

OhoniX wrote...

We infer what he said happens, because we see reapers fly away and
then the credits roll, but we actually dont know what the writers
intentions were with each ending.

Don't argue nonsense. If the ending shows the Reapers flying away, and there's nothing showing them coming back, then it's safe to assume that "the ending worked" and they actually went away. It's ridiculous to make assumptions about the ending going off in a completely different direction that is in no way hinted at during the actual ending itself. It'd be like watching the ending of Jedi and then assuming that the bonfires set the entire Ewok forrest on fire and everyone dies.

LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

[dreman9999]

D_Dude1210 wrote...

Except that Shepard doesn't know that. As a character, he doesn't have hindsight of the events that transpired after he made his "choice".

All he knows is this: a little kid out of nowhere who admits to being the leader/controller of an extemely sadistic, genocidal and highly decieftul race WHO IS HIS ENEMY has just told you to a) grab live cables, shoot an explosivr conduit or c) jump off a cliff. All in the hopes that MAYBE he's telling the truth (read: highly decietful). I mean COME ON! how stupid would you have to be.

I mean for all he knows the means to activate the crucible would have been to shoot this kid or something and the kid just doesn't want him to figure it out.

Exactly my point.

[dreman9999]

bump

[111987]

Well, remember that the Crucible wasn't created or influenced at all by the Reapers or Catalyst. It only uses the Citadel to broadcast its effects across the galaxy.

So really, Shepard would have used the Crucible anyways, without knowing what it would do. The Catalyst just told him what the options were. Could he have been lying about which options did which? I suppose...but based off the actions of how you activate the Crucible, it doesn't seem likely (i.e. the Destroy ending is activated by destroying something).

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

Well, remember that the Crucible wasn't created or influenced at all by the Reapers or Catalyst. It only uses the Citadel to broadcast its effects across the galaxy.

So really, Shepard would have used the Crucible anyways, without knowing what it would do. The Catalyst just told him what the options were. Could he have been lying about which options did which? I suppose...but based off the actions of how you activate the Crucible, it doesn't seem likely (i.e. the Destroy ending is activated by destroying something).

Before going on...My question is whether the star child is telling the truth. This incluced what the tells you what will happen and what each options were.

But lets look a the action of what you did, being that your saying based o nthe action of how you activate them is pointing to it being likely he is tell the truth.

Control: Grab on to a live wire connect till you die.

Synthesis: You run off a ledge into a firy beam the burns you to death.

Destroy: You walk into an exaplotion form a tube you don't know does what.

The normal way would to press a button. Why are we doing these rediculuse things?

[KingZayd]

pistolols wrote...

Calamity wrote...

pistolols wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The rest of us are unwilling to risk the fate of all the advanced races in the galaxy on the slim possibility that the Starchild is be telling the truth

Yeah but bottom line is it doesn't really make sense that the catalyst would be able to utilize the crucible's capabilities to serve his own desires.  Afterall, it was built by our homies, not by the reapers or anyone indoctrinated and Shepard knows that.  And the fact that the choices don't really appear to address his chaos problem is SOLID PROOF that he clearly has very little to do with them.  He's merely presenting the capabilities of the Crucible to us.

Only thing Shepard needs to trust is the crucible.  The catalyst' words are moot.

But nobody knows where/who the design for the crucible came from.

We know it was designed collaboratively through the ages by people fighting the reapers.

Because one cycle decided that a feature that doesn't affect the reapers at all (synthesis) was the best addition to an anti-reaper weapon? yeah that makes perfect sense.

[111987]

dreman9999 wrote...
Before going on...My question is whether the star child is telling the truth. This incluced what the tells you what will happen and what each options were.

Well of course there's no way of knowing for sure if he's telling the truth. But really...isn't that an argument you could make for anyone and anything?

dreman9999 wrote...

The normal way would to press a button. Why are we doing these rediculuse things?

They are quite ridiculous, yes, but if the Catalyst wanted to kill you, there were far easier and more efficient ways to accomplish this.

[pharsti]

You cant prove hes lying, you cant prove hes telling the truth either, i think youre supposed to "speculate" on that too >_>

Personally, i dont think he is, but hes still full of crap

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Before going on...My question is whether the star child is telling the truth. This incluced what the tells you what will happen and what each options were.

Well of course there's no way of knowing for sure if he's telling the truth. But really...isn't that an argument you could make for anyone and anything?

dreman9999 wrote...

The normal way would to press a button. Why are we doing these rediculuse things?

They are quite ridiculous, yes, but if the Catalyst wanted to kill you, there were far easier and more efficient ways to accomplish this.

1.Everything else has some fact ansd clear evilation supporting it. The star kid doesn't.
2. You make it sound like the Sat kid could do anything more then what it did at the end of the game. If he could of done anything else to kill Shepard that puts a hole in your point. He would never be tryin gto help Shepard in the first place.

[dreman9999]

pharsti wrote...

You cant prove hes lying, you cant prove hes telling the truth either, i think youre supposed to "speculate" on that too >_>

Personally, i dont think he is, but hes still full of crap

He's from a race of machine with a history of masive deseption.....Why would he be telling the truth?

[111987]

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Before going on...My question is whether the star child is telling the truth. This incluced what the tells you what will happen and what each options were.

Well of course there's no way of knowing for sure if he's telling the truth. But really...isn't that an argument you could make for anyone and anything?

dreman9999 wrote...

The normal way would to press a button. Why are we doing these rediculuse things?

They are quite ridiculous, yes, but if the Catalyst wanted to kill you, there were far easier and more efficient ways to accomplish this.

1.Everything else has some fact ansd clear evilation supporting it. The star kid doesn't.
2. You make it sound like the Sat kid could do anything more then what it did at the end of the game. If he could of done anything else to kill Shepard that puts a hole in your point. He would never be tryin gto help Shepard in the first place.

1. No, you can always doubt everything until after the fact. Here a few examples.
How do you know the bomb TIM gave you to blow up the Collector Base will actually blow it up? Maybe both bombs were really raditation pulses?
How do you know Sovereign was telling the truth about the Reapers? Maybe it really was just a Geth ship.
How do you know that Vigil on Illos is telling the truth? What if it was a Reaper trap, and the datafile it gave you would activate the Citadel Relay?
How do you know that Mordin really saved/deleted the genophage data in ME2? He could have decided to do whatever he wanted with it and Shep would be none the wiser.

2.Well the least he could have done was send the Reapers to actively target the Citadel.Or, since he is the Citadel, send him out an airlock or something. The fact that he didn't suggests that he really does want a new solution to the cycle.

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Before going on...My question is whether the star child is telling the truth. This incluced what the tells you what will happen and what each options were.

Well of course there's no way of knowing for sure if he's telling the truth. But really...isn't that an argument you could make for anyone and anything?

dreman9999 wrote...

The normal way would to press a button. Why are we doing these rediculuse things?

They are quite ridiculous, yes, but if the Catalyst wanted to kill you, there were far easier and more efficient ways to accomplish this.

1.Everything else has some fact ansd clear evilation supporting it. The star kid doesn't.
2. You make it sound like the Sat kid could do anything more then what it did at the end of the game. If he could of done anything else to kill Shepard that puts a hole in your point. He would never be tryin gto help Shepard in the first place.

1. No, you can always doubt everything until after the fact. Here a few examples.
How do you know the bomb TIM gave you to blow up the Collector Base will actually blow it up? Maybe both bombs were really raditation pulses?
How do you know Sovereign was telling the truth about the Reapers? Maybe it really was just a Geth ship.
How do you know that Vigil on Illos is telling the truth? What if it was a Reaper trap, and the datafile it gave you would activate the Citadel Relay?
How do you know that Mordin really saved/deleted the genophage data in ME2? He could have decided to do whatever he wanted with it and Shep would be none the wiser.

2.Well the least he could have done was send the Reapers to actively target the Citadel.Or, since he is the Citadel, send him out an airlock or something. The fact that he didn't suggests that he really does want a new solution to the cycle.

1....Shepard set the bomb , not TIM. Nor did time give any bomb to Shepard.
......Because I talked to Legion and then Legion confermed it. Added, we are fighting fleets of reaper now any way, which makesyou point mute.
......Because the info it gave helped stopped the reapers and it makes no sense for the reapers to stop themselves from winning.
......Because he used the data to save Eve in ME3.
......
Are you getting my point now, everything else eventually has something come up and show that it' a fact and the truth...That has yet to happen with the star child.  We can't prove that the star child is tell ing the truth , everything else we can.

2.Listen, if the starchild could do that then they would of  done that instead of attacking Shepard. The crucible is key to the reapers losing at the end, not Shepard. And as I said before, what has even shown that the Star child has that power before. Hell, the scene with the cataylist is on the out side of the citadel...In space.

Modifié par dreman9999, 22 avril 2012 - 06:07 .

[111987]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]1....Shepard set the bomb , not TIM. Nor did time give any bomb to Shepard.
......Because I talked to Legion and then Legion confermed it. Added, we are fighting fleets of reaper now any way, which makesyou point mute.
......Because the info it gave helped stopped the reapers and it makes no sense for the reapers to stop themselves from winning.
......Because he used the data to save Eve in ME3.
......[/quote]

You see, all of those reasons come after the fact. At the time though, you have no way of knowing what's actually going to happen. Same thing here. You are using a double standard here.
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

Are you getting my point now, everything else eventually has something come up and show that it' a fact and the truth...That has yet to happen with the star child.  We can't prove that the star child is tell ing the truth , everything else we can.[/quote]

Um yeah, except for the cinematic that plays right afterwards...wow...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...
2.Listen, if the starchild could do that then they would of  done that instead of attacking Shepard.

[/quote]

No, the Catalyst clearly said it wants a new solution.

I'm done here, I've made my point.

[dreman9999]

@111987 

1. How do we know that really happean, one else comfirms it and your fighting a race of machines with a history of great deception.
2.Again, as I asked before...How do we know the star child is telling the truth? That could be a lie.

Modifié par dreman9999, 22 avril 2012 - 06:19 .