352 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Thrombin wrote...

I've never had a problem with Control. Is it slavery for a soldier to obey his commander? Is it slavery for a computer to obey the commands of its operator? That's really all I see Control as. Shepard takes over command of the Reapers from the Catalyst.

Now genocide or violation of everyone's physical and genetic makeup is another story. I never really saw the choices as much of a choice. Control was just obviously the best.

At the time of the fall of rome, soldiers would cripple themselves so they would not be drafted. During the viatnam war, soldiers would shot themselves in the leg so they would be taken out of the front line....In short the solder chooses to obey, they are not forced to. A solder is not chained and bound in their mind to be forced to obey.

To say control is a choice is to say you're ok with being libotimized as long as you are alive. Kill your old self so you can stay alive in some pitaful state....Didn't Shepard say what he/her though of that in ME1.....Rath being dead then some mindless slave.....Control does sound a lot like indoctrination.

[dreman9999]

DLClol wrote...

Hes not lying.

If he was lying that would mean hes concerned about the reapers well being and wants to protect them.

If this was the case then Star Kid would have killed Shepard the second he saw him/her. Shot him/her into space, reapers win organics die. Yahg are next /end

The fact he gives you the choice to destroy his creations is proof hes not lying.

Tldr: Hes a God character he dosen't need to lie to some pathetic human, he could kill him/her if he wanted to.

Again, what even indicates that the star child has the power to kill any one?

Also, did you forget that you where going to destory the reapers anyway....He didn't offer anything, he just added to the choices to he can gain the illusion of control.

[DLClol]

dreman9999 wrote...

DLClol wrote...

Hes not lying.

If he was lying that would mean hes concerned about the reapers well being and wants to protect them.

If this was the case then Star Kid would have killed Shepard the second he saw him/her. Shot him/her into space, reapers win organics die. Yahg are next /end

The fact he gives you the choice to destroy his creations is proof hes not lying.

Tldr: Hes a God character he dosen't need to lie to some pathetic human, he could kill him/her if he wanted to.

Again, what even indicates that the star child has the power to kill any one?

Also, did you forget that you where going to destory the reapers anyway....He didn't offer anything, he just added to the choices to he can gain the illusion of control.

Well he created the Mass relays, Citadel, Reapers, and Im assuming mass effect fields. I think if he wanted to he could have shut them off and shepard would be floating in space dead but yes I do admit it never said he personally could kill people we have to speculate about that.

As for the second part, if hes lying to shepard to protect the reapers why even give him those choices? Why not just off him and continue reaping, if he cant do it personally call Harbinger over and have him kill Shepard.

No way hes lying to Shepard

[Jeb231]

It's just a stupid plot device.That's it. It doesn't have to lift a finger if he doesn't want the character to use the device and it doesn't have to say anything if he wants to confuse the player about using the device.

[dreman9999]

DLClol wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DLClol wrote...

Hes not lying.

If he was lying that would mean hes concerned about the reapers well being and wants to protect them.

If this was the case then Star Kid would have killed Shepard the second he saw him/her. Shot him/her into space, reapers win organics die. Yahg are next /end

The fact he gives you the choice to destroy his creations is proof hes not lying.

Tldr: Hes a God character he dosen't need to lie to some pathetic human, he could kill him/her if he wanted to.

Again, what even indicates that the star child has the power to kill any one?

Also, did you forget that you where going to destory the reapers anyway....He didn't offer anything, he just added to the choices to he can gain the illusion of control.

Well he created the Mass relays, Citadel, Reapers, and Im assuming mass effect fields. I think if he wanted to he could have shut them off and shepard would be floating in space dead but yes I do admit it never said he personally could kill people we have to speculate about that.

As for the second part, if hes lying to shepard to protect the reapers why even give him those choices? Why not just off him and continue reaping, if he cant do it personally call Harbinger over and have him kill Shepard.

No way hes lying to Shepard

Again, what is any indication he has that power? If the star child is lieing, he can also be lieing about controling the reapers.
And as I said before, what show that he even have the power to kill Shepard...
You don't think the option he is offering does that. 

Control is Shep grabing on a live wire and being electricuted to death.
Sythesis is Shep runniing off the edge to a firy beam.
Destroy has Shep walk into an explotion.
 
Could these "optons"be his way of killing Shepard?

Modifié par dreman9999, 23 avril 2012 - 05:46 .

[Jeb231]

dreman9999 wrote...

DLClol wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DLClol wrote...

Hes not lying.

If he was lying that would mean hes concerned about the reapers well being and wants to protect them.

If this was the case then Star Kid would have killed Shepard the second he saw him/her. Shot him/her into space, reapers win organics die. Yahg are next /end

The fact he gives you the choice to destroy his creations is proof hes not lying.

Tldr: Hes a God character he dosen't need to lie to some pathetic human, he could kill him/her if he wanted to.

Again, what even indicates that the star child has the power to kill any one?

Also, did you forget that you where going to destory the reapers anyway....He didn't offer anything, he just added to the choices to he can gain the illusion of control.

Well he created the Mass relays, Citadel, Reapers, and Im assuming mass effect fields. I think if he wanted to he could have shut them off and shepard would be floating in space dead but yes I do admit it never said he personally could kill people we have to speculate about that.

As for the second part, if hes lying to shepard to protect the reapers why even give him those choices? Why not just off him and continue reaping, if he cant do it personally call Harbinger over and have him kill Shepard.

No way hes lying to Shepard

Again, what is any indication he has that power? If the star child is lieing, he can also be lieing about controling the reapers.
And as I said before, what show that he even have the power to kill Shepard...
You don't think the option he is offering does that. 

Control is Shep grabing on a live wire and being electricuted to death.
Sythesis is Shep runniing off the edge to a firy beam.
Destroy has Shep walk into an explotion.
 
Could these "optons" his way of killing Shepard?

Basically what you are saying is Bioware purposefuly made an ending to a SciFi epic which you cannot win or even refute (since you get a game over screen if you wait too long). Yeah that totally makes sense.

[dreman9999]

Jeb231 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DLClol wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DLClol wrote...

Hes not lying.

If he was lying that would mean hes concerned about the reapers well being and wants to protect them.

If this was the case then Star Kid would have killed Shepard the second he saw him/her. Shot him/her into space, reapers win organics die. Yahg are next /end

The fact he gives you the choice to destroy his creations is proof hes not lying.

Tldr: Hes a God character he dosen't need to lie to some pathetic human, he could kill him/her if he wanted to.

Again, what even indicates that the star child has the power to kill any one?

Also, did you forget that you where going to destory the reapers anyway....He didn't offer anything, he just added to the choices to he can gain the illusion of control.

Well he created the Mass relays, Citadel, Reapers, and Im assuming mass effect fields. I think if he wanted to he could have shut them off and shepard would be floating in space dead but yes I do admit it never said he personally could kill people we have to speculate about that.

As for the second part, if hes lying to shepard to protect the reapers why even give him those choices? Why not just off him and continue reaping, if he cant do it personally call Harbinger over and have him kill Shepard.

No way hes lying to Shepard

Again, what is any indication he has that power? If the star child is lieing, he can also be lieing about controling the reapers.
And as I said before, what show that he even have the power to kill Shepard...
You don't think the option he is offering does that. 

Control is Shep grabing on a live wire and being electricuted to death.
Sythesis is Shep runniing off the edge to a firy beam.
Destroy has Shep walk into an explotion.
 
Could these "optons" his way of killing Shepard?

Basically what you are saying is Bioware purposefuly made an ending to a SciFi epic which you cannot win or even refute (since you get a game over screen if you wait too long). Yeah that totally makes sense.

Why do you think everyone is so upset?
Based on the ending we saw, can anyone even say we won? Even with taking everything by face value, that's the same case any way.
Also, we are getting an ending...EC.

Their is one last twist to it, too.. We also have no proof what happened at the end of the game really happened.

Modifié par dreman9999, 23 avril 2012 - 05:58 .

[Jeb231]

I see where you are coming from but...

There is no need for him to lie if all three choices result in a failure. It doesn't have to say anything. His monologue simply wouldn't be in the game.

If he lies then the assumption is that there must be a valid reason and one of the choices is the correct one (since there are no alternatives).
.

Modifié par Jeb231, 23 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[DLClol]

dreman9999 wrote...

DLClol wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DLClol wrote...

Hes not lying.

If he was lying that would mean hes concerned about the reapers well being and wants to protect them.

If this was the case then Star Kid would have killed Shepard the second he saw him/her. Shot him/her into space, reapers win organics die. Yahg are next /end

The fact he gives you the choice to destroy his creations is proof hes not lying.

Tldr: Hes a God character he dosen't need to lie to some pathetic human, he could kill him/her if he wanted to.

Again, what even indicates that the star child has the power to kill any one?

Also, did you forget that you where going to destory the reapers anyway....He didn't offer anything, he just added to the choices to he can gain the illusion of control.

Well he created the Mass relays, Citadel, Reapers, and Im assuming mass effect fields. I think if he wanted to he could have shut them off and shepard would be floating in space dead but yes I do admit it never said he personally could kill people we have to speculate about that.

As for the second part, if hes lying to shepard to protect the reapers why even give him those choices? Why not just off him and continue reaping, if he cant do it personally call Harbinger over and have him kill Shepard.

No way hes lying to Shepard

Again, what is any indication he has that power? If the star child is lieing, he can also be lieing about controling the reapers.
And as I said before, what show that he even have the power to kill Shepard...
You don't think the option he is offering does that. 

Control is Shep grabing on a live wire and being electricuted to death.
Sythesis is Shep runniing off the edge to a firy beam.
Destroy has Shep walk into an explotion.
 
Could these "optons"be his way of killing Shepard?

No those 3 options are a result of bad writing and deus ex cop out.

Cataylst straight up tells us he controlls the reapers, they are his solution to the organic synthetic problem.
Why would he lie about that? He just decided to roll up and watch a space battle?

I see where your coming from on the "he might not have the ability to kill somebody" but its obvious he controlls the reapers and he could easily call one down to kill Shepard if his ulitmate goal was to save the reapers. Makes alot more sense than a god character trying to trick a random organic into picking the wrong choice.

Modifié par DLClol, 23 avril 2012 - 06:06 .

[HiddenKING]

The Catalyst is not a star/god/kid/brat. It's a system, most likely a VI. It doesn't lie to you, everything it tells you it true. That doesn't mean that, it's true.

The Catalyst is wrong, not lying.

[dreman9999]

Jeb231 wrote...

I see where you are coming from but...

There is no need for him to lie if all three choices result in a failure. It doesn't have to say anything. His monologue simply wouldn't be in the game.

If he lies then the assumption is that there must be a valid reason and one of the choices is the correct one (since there are no alternatives).
.

He has every reason to lie.  To see this, ask your self this....What reason does he have to even help? Let's say that  he is the only way for the crucible to work, his goal is to have the reaper keep forcing order. If he is the only way for the caytylist to work and everything will fail with out him, why even help? If he doesn't help, the reapers keep reaping. To say it's because he has more options, then your missing the point that he is not. Both control and Syntheis is just like indoctination and the hybernisation process they use to make reapers and their hored.
The control option is just like the brain wahsing opting on Legions loyalty quest add on last thing, the fact that you will control the reapers but lose everything that you are. What's the guarranttee you think the same after words, ifthe salution the reapers is using doesn't suddenly start to be agree able and you use it your self? And what does it mean to be combined to sythetic down to the dna? Is that just what reapers and collector and all the things you are fighting are?
The point is, the options don't make sense nor do they solve anything. Only the destory option is their disadvantage.

[dreman9999]

HiddenKING wrote...

The Catalyst is not a star/god/kid/brat. It's a system, most likely a VI. It doesn't lie to you, everything it tells you it true. That doesn't mean that, it's true.

The Catalyst is wrong, not lying.

1. IT'S NOT A VI NOR CAN YOU PROVE IT'S A VI.

2. Have you even payed attion, sythetic can lie.

[dreman9999]

DLClol wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DLClol wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DLClol wrote...

Hes not lying.

If he was lying that would mean hes concerned about the reapers well being and wants to protect them.

If this was the case then Star Kid would have killed Shepard the second he saw him/her. Shot him/her into space, reapers win organics die. Yahg are next /end

The fact he gives you the choice to destroy his creations is proof hes not lying.

Tldr: Hes a God character he dosen't need to lie to some pathetic human, he could kill him/her if he wanted to.

Again, what even indicates that the star child has the power to kill any one?

Also, did you forget that you where going to destory the reapers anyway....He didn't offer anything, he just added to the choices to he can gain the illusion of control.

Well he created the Mass relays, Citadel, Reapers, and Im assuming mass effect fields. I think if he wanted to he could have shut them off and shepard would be floating in space dead but yes I do admit it never said he personally could kill people we have to speculate about that.

As for the second part, if hes lying to shepard to protect the reapers why even give him those choices? Why not just off him and continue reaping, if he cant do it personally call Harbinger over and have him kill Shepard.

No way hes lying to Shepard

Again, what is any indication he has that power? If the star child is lieing, he can also be lieing about controling the reapers.
And as I said before, what show that he even have the power to kill Shepard...
You don't think the option he is offering does that. 

Control is Shep grabing on a live wire and being electricuted to death.
Sythesis is Shep runniing off the edge to a firy beam.
Destroy has Shep walk into an explotion.
 
Could these "optons"be his way of killing Shepard?

No those 3 options are a result of bad writing and deus ex cop out.

Cataylst straight up tells us he controlls the reapers, they are his solution to the organic synthetic problem.
Why would he lie about that? He just decided to roll up and watch a space battle?

I see where your coming from on the "he might not have the ability to kill somebody" but its obvious he controlls the reapers and he could easily call one down to kill Shepard if his ulitmate goal was to save the reapers. Makes alot more sense than a god character trying to trick a random organic into picking the wrong choice.

There is nothing that obviously shows that the star child controls the reapers. And if he could of all one down to kill Shepard, he could easilly call one down to destroy the caytylist,which is the key to the reapers losing.
Remeber, their is no point for the reapers to kill Shepard anymore, he is not key to the allied forces winning at that point the caytalist is.
Also, It neverwas the point of the reapers to kill Shepard.

Modifié par dreman9999, 23 avril 2012 - 06:43 .

[Oldbones2]

You can't prove him right OR wrong.

It's one of the most frustrating aspects of the ending.

You can't interact with the antagonist outside of the limited 1 dialogue option Bioware gives you.

[dreman9999]

Oldbones2 wrote...

You can't prove him right OR wrong.

It's one of the most frustrating aspects of the ending.

You can't interact with the antagonist outside of the limited 1 dialogue option Bioware gives you.

Which is why I wonder why everyone is taking what it says at face value.

[DLClol]

Oldbones2 wrote...

You can't prove him right OR wrong.

It's one of the most frustrating aspects of the ending.

You can't interact with the antagonist outside of the limited 1 dialogue option Bioware gives you.

The fact Bioware dosen't let you prove him right or wrong leads me to believe he is indeed telling the truth.
Not the way I would have handeled it but yea

[Jeb231]

 So you are agreeing with me. If the catalyst lies the red ending is the correct one. Therefore you have an option. If you don't accept this ending (because you believe it actually doesn't lie about the Geth this time for some reason) then what?  It doesn't make sense to propose the red ending if he can keep on reaping. He doesn't have to tell you to shoot the tubes.

What could be the most logical: Bioware releasing a nihilistic ending to a mainstream audience of 3 millions people, or viewers trying to make sense out of a dumb ending?

Modifié par Jeb231, 23 avril 2012 - 06:47 .

[Daedalus1773]

The Angry One wrote...

You can't, because his assertions are unprovable. He uses logical fallacies, assumptions and circular logic to justify it's psychopathic insanity.

The mere fact that organic life was never totally exterminated before the Reapers existed disproves everything it claims.

This.

Plus, StarChild's very existence disproves his own claim. He is a synthetic AI. Trying to preserve organic life (kind of) by arguing that it's inevitable that AI's will always try to exterminate all organic life in the galaxy.

Really?  You apparently don't, StarBrat. Why do you assume every other synthetic AI will?

Modifié par Daedalus1773, 23 avril 2012 - 06:30 .

[Oldbones2]

DLClol wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...

You can't prove him right OR wrong.

It's one of the most frustrating aspects of the ending.

You can't interact with the antagonist outside of the limited 1 dialogue option Bioware gives you.

The fact Bioware dosen't let you prove him right or wrong leads me to believe he is indeed telling the truth.
Not the way I would have handeled it but yea

I agree.

Though it is a intentional oversight that Bioware had to know wouldn't be received well.

[HiddenKING]

dreman9999 wrote...

HiddenKING wrote...

The Catalyst is not a star/god/kid/brat. It's a system, most likely a VI. It doesn't lie to you, everything it tells you it true. That doesn't mean that, it's true.

The Catalyst is wrong, not lying.

1. IT'S NOT A VI NOR CAN YOU PROVE IT'S A VI.

2. Have you even payed attion, sythetic can lie.

1. I CAN TYPE IN ALL CAPS TOO

It's actions, or  lackof suggests that the Catalyst is either limited or a passive observer. The Catalyst itself says that it cannot choose a new solution. It knows that it's solution won't work anymore, but can't do anythin about it. We know this, because we see the battle still goin on. The Catalyst believes the problem as inevitable, it's illogical and leads to an illogical solution. An AI or organic mind could have choosen a new solution, or seen the problem differently. The Catalyst does not act the way AIs do in Mass Effect.

2. Control, controls. Synthesis, synthesises, Destroy, destroys. It tells you the problem, Synthetic v. Organic, which has evidence to support it. The Citadel and Relays are destroyed, as It says. I know synthetics can lie, but that doesn't mean that the Catalyst does. 

It's not a question of wether the Catalyst is telling the truth or lies. It's a question of wether the Catalyst is right or wrong. You can't prove either.

[Jeb231]

He could also be a god, a being of light or an ancient or whatever SciFi TV show that floats your boat. Maybe he doesn't want to intervene, just give a nudge. Now THAT would suck.

Modifié par Jeb231, 23 avril 2012 - 06:45 .

[dreman9999]

HiddenKING wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

HiddenKING wrote...

The Catalyst is not a star/god/kid/brat. It's a system, most likely a VI. It doesn't lie to you, everything it tells you it true. That doesn't mean that, it's true.

The Catalyst is wrong, not lying.

1. IT'S NOT A VI NOR CAN YOU PROVE IT'S A VI.

2. Have you even payed attion, sythetic can lie.

1. I CAN TYPE IN ALL CAPS TOO

It's actions, or  lackof suggests that the Catalyst is either limited or a passive observer. The Catalyst itself says that it cannot choose a new solution. It knows that it's solution won't work anymore, but can't do anythin about it. We know this, because we see the battle still goin on. The Catalyst believes the problem as inevitable, it's illogical and leads to an illogical solution. An AI or organic mind could have choosen a new solution, or seen the problem differently. The Catalyst does not act the way AIs do in Mass Effect.

2. Control, controls. Synthesis, synthesises, Destroy, destroys. It tells you the problem, Synthetic v. Organic, which has evidence to support it. The Citadel and Relays are destroyed, as It says. I know synthetics can lie, but that doesn't mean that the Catalyst does. 

It's not a question of wether the Catalyst is telling the truth or lies. It's a question of wether the Catalyst is right or wrong. You can't prove either.

1. WE CAN ALL TYPE IN CAPS.
Anyway, you still have no proof that the Star child is a vi . I'm not even going to argue on whether the Star childs actions is one a VI because it's baseless. Also, look at the same scene at the lowest ems.....VI's don't get angry like the star child is in that scene.

2.Can you point me to anything that says that is true or that the ending really happened? Because if you can't, you're missing the point.

Modifié par dreman9999, 23 avril 2012 - 08:26 .

[Jeb231]

1/ Because he wouldn't propose a choice (red) which is nefarious to him if he could lie about it. Fact is that the endings are based on EMS (and the collector base) .He has no control over it and the speech is redundant when the player has low ems.

2/ This implies we already have endings.


What can fans expect from the Extended Cut DLC?

    For fans who want more closure in Mass Effect 3, the DLC will offer extended scenes that provide additional context and deeper insight to the conclusion of Commander Shepard’s journey.


Are there going to be more/different endings or ending DLCs in the future?

    No. BioWare strongly believes in the team’s artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned.


What is BioWare adding to the ending with the Extended Cut DLC?

    BioWare will be expanding on the endings to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences. The goal of these new scenes is to provide additional clarity and closure to Mass Effect 3.


When will the Extended Cut DLC be available?

    Currently the Extended Cut DLC is planned for this summer, no specific date has been announced at this point.


Why are you releasing the Extended Cut DLC?

    Though we remain committed and are proud of the artistic choices we made in the main game, we are aware that there are some fans who would like more closure to Mass Effect 3. The goal of the DLC is not to provide a new ending to the game, rather to offer fans additional context and answers to the end of Commander Shepard’s story.

Modifié par Jeb231, 23 avril 2012 - 07:00 .

[dreman9999]

Jeb231 wrote...

He could also be a god, a being of light or an ancient or whatever SciFi TV show that floats your boat. Maybe he doesn't want to intervene, just give a nudge. Now THAT would suck.

About that........
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination 

"A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. "

With the reaper capable of doing that...I would say no it's not a god.

[Jeb231]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jeb231 wrote...

He could also be a god, a being of light or an ancient or whatever SciFi TV show that floats your boat. Maybe he doesn't want to intervene, just give a nudge. Now THAT would suck.

About that........
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination 

"A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. "

With the reaper capable of doing that...I would say no it's not a god.

Twas a joke mate