138 réponses à ce sujet

[Oransel]

Jassu1979 wrote...

What's it with US-Americans and sexuality?

There's something seriously twisted with a culture that doesn't bat an eyelash at the notion of simulated violence (including exploding heads) as entertainment, yet goes bonkers and declares a witch hunt if faced with an exposed nipple.

Seriously, if you need to complain, shouldn't it be the OTHER way around?

There is nothing wrong with americans, but unlike you I am too polite to say that there are some problems with liberal europeans, though. Oh, I said it?

[Kath]

I love it how people say that Kaidan was an established straight character. Did I miss the scene where he tells Shepard "Oh, by the way, I only like woman, and always will only like women." Just because he never outright says that he's Bi doesn't mean he wasn't in ME1.

I mean, look at Garrus and Tali. Neither of them were romanceable in ME1, did that mean they were not a compatible sexuality type with Shepard? Was having them as romance options in ME2 a retcon of their characters?

Modifié par Katherine, 19 avril 2012 - 09:16 .

[MysticBinary82]

LaurenShepard-N7 wrote...

I don't mind the presence of Traynor and Cortez, all though it would have been nice if some of the effort BW put into writing their romances, went into the ME2 romances, or Vega.<_< I was actually pretty disturbed at what they did to Kaidan, and I'm NOT homophobic at all. I mean:

1. It's a ret-con, no two ways about that, he was previously established as a straight character, with dialogue that implies the same. It sucks getting attached to a character and having them completely rewritten, it just breaks immersion.

2. They didn't do the same to Ashley, despite the fact plenty enough fans have been asking for FemshepXAshley.

3. I'd be horrified if my IRL bf turned out to be bisexual (all the "bi" guys I've known have come out as gay eventually). I know Kaidan is not real but it makes me uncomfortable nontheless.

4. They're shafting the female fanbase once again. Apparently BW thinks we're more of a minority than gay men. Can't we have one human male LI all to ourselves? They didn't even bother to give us a Vega romance as a trade-off. Instead we get more lesbian LIs. (Which are written for straight guys, not actual lesbians.)

5. They're just giving more reasons for Kaidan to be Virmired in straight guy's playthroughs, for fear of ninja-mancing.

Does Kaidan refers himself as bisexual? If you are Femshep he is straight and if you are Broshep he is gay. As simple as that. You know, cause Bro- and Femshep does not exist at the same time.

[Sailfindragon]

bas_kon wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Alright bro, now you shouldn't take this that personal. We are not debating - at least me - the senseless straight versus gay issue. We are talking about an exact charater of the game lore. So lets not make it all personal, when it's obviously not.

I don't make it personal but as far as I know there's no sexuality codex for the characters yet, so a character having a different sexuality from the one some people assumed is not out of the blue, since it happens IRL so it's literally realistic. Again, he's not gay, but bisexual so it doesn't retcon his interest in women.

And I agree with you that Kaidan romance could have being handled
better, with more cutscenes so it wouldn't feel so rushed but since it's not an integral part of the story, but an optional one, I'm ok with it.

edit: In fact, to me it feels that new f!shep/kaidan romance is even more rushed since they even say I love you to one another without a prior relationship.

For me personally, its not about him being bi-sexual. That was never the issue. It was just written in such a way that I had a wtf moment.
Possibly as you have said in a previous post, bi-sexual people don't always come over as such. But that also goes for gays/lesbians too. My sister is lesbian, we knew from a young age she was (although it took her 15 years to figure it out), however one of my gay friends you would never know.

[Icesong]

LaurenShepard-N7 wrote...

I don't mind the presence of Traynor and Cortez, all though it would have been nice if some of the effort BW put into writing their romances, went into the ME2 romances, or Vega.<_< I was actually pretty disturbed at what they did to Kaidan, and I'm NOT homophobic at all. I mean:

1. It's a ret-con, no two ways about that, he was previously established as a straight character, with dialogue that implies the same. It sucks getting attached to a character and having them completely rewritten, it just breaks immersion.

It wasn't "established" it was assumed. What dialogue are you referring to?

[Oransel]

I don't mind gay or bi characters and romances. I mind Ashley/Kaiden to be bi-sex as it was completely OOC (out of character).

[Icesong]

Oransel wrote...

I don't mind gay or bi characters and romances. I mind Ashley/Kaiden to be bi-sex as it was completely OOC (out of character).

OOC? How?

[bahamutomega]

LaurenShepard-N7 wrote...
4. They're shafting the female fanbase once again. Apparently BW thinks we're more of a minority than gay men. Can't we have one human male LI all to ourselves? They didn't even bother to give us a Vega romance as a trade-off. Instead we get more lesbian LIs. (Which are written for straight guys, not actual lesbians.)

written for guys, by guys.  just so you know, not all men... uh...  jumped... at that opportunity.  i sure didn't.  my femShep stayed true to Liara through ME1/ME Genesis (PS3 only here).  and not because of the sex scene with Liara (ovbviously, there is no sex scene in ME Genesis) - i really didn't think Kaidan was that strong of a character in the first game.

i thought the femShep flirting with Vega was funny.  i think it would've been better to cut him off (when he's getting the N7 tatoo) when he says "or get my name someplace special" by having femShep say "how do you know i don't already have one?" (flirting with him) and then having him get flustered.

also... as a straight guy...  i thought Garrus was hysterical in ME2 when you were romancing him as femShep.  in one of my files before my first PS3 tanked, i had already gotten him to deliver the legendary "I had the reach.  She had the flexibility" line, but in another conversation i got him to say "You know how i always like to take one last shot before popping the heat sink" followed by an awkward silence as he realized what was just said.  he was just awkward enough about flirting with femShep that you could relate to him as both a man (trying to talk to a woman) or woman (being courted by a man) - he was different (from femShep), obviously attracted (to femShep) and young enough to be absolutely confident in everything except talking to women (like femShep).

[snfonseka]

hobbes296 wrote...

Yeah it bothered me too...but eh, what can you do.
I have no problem with exclusively gay characters in game though; I just don’t like them changing pre-existing characters around...

^This.

Modifié par snfonseka, 19 avril 2012 - 09:52 .

[Biotic_Warlock]

Kaidan was always gay?

He BLATANTLY fancied Mshep, so this thread is dismissed. <_<

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 19 avril 2012 - 10:47 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Manny_619 wrote...

okay to have exclusive gay members like Cortez or Traynor?

I've always maintained that, other than Tali, Kaiden had THE MOST potential to be Bi. Not so much because of anything he said but because of that highly suggestive camera-zoom-pan-turn thing everytime either Shep approached him. Liara had the same thing and she was Bi.

So yeah, I don't find Kaiden's current bisexual status to be a departure at all.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Manny_619 wrote...

Also why is it okay to have a thread supporting gay relationship in the game but can have a straight-only thread?

Does that *need* answering?
Gay rights is something people fight for around the world IRL and also to be fairly acknowledged within fiction (such as ME3). Do you see straight people being abused for being straight all the time? Do kids in school say "you are so straight"?  No. <_<

Something tells me many people in this thread do not believe being 'bi' is real.
You need a reality check. <_<

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 19 avril 2012 - 10:52 .

[DarkShadow]

Manny_619 wrote...

...but okay to have exclusive gay members like Cortez or Traynor?

Your words indicate that it's not ok to have exclusive gay members. Why?

There are exclusive straight characters, there're bisexual ones, so there are gay ones, too. Kaidan just didn't know he's bi yet.

Modifié par DarkShadow, 19 avril 2012 - 11:14 .

[Wulfram]

MysticBinary82 wrote...

Does Kaidan refers himself as bisexual? If you are Femshep he is straight and if you are Broshep he is gay. As simple as that. You know, cause Bro- and Femshep does not exist at the same time.

IIRC He fairly clearly appreciate's Liara's looks back in ME1.  And the dancers in Chora's Den.

[CJHook]

Sexuality just doesn't seem to be an issue to people in the Mass Effect universe.

Perhaps there is a lesson here.

[LaurenShepard-N7]

bahamutomega wrote...
also... as a straight guy...  i thought Garrus was hysterical in ME2 when you were romancing him as femShep.

Garrus is just that awesome he's the exception to the straight-guy-playing-femshep-has-to-be-a-lesbian rule. 

Biotic_Warlock wrote...
Something tells me many people in this thread do not believe being 'bi' is real.
You need a reality check. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie] 

I don't doubt that people can be attracted to both genders, but I don't understand how bisexual people can claim to be 50/50 attracted to both. Men and women are so different physically and personality wise, they must have a preference even it's 60/40. I think that's why people tend to see bisexual men as gay. A supposedly straight guy who mostly likes women would never admit to having a crush on another man, let alone date one, as that reputation would kill his chances with women. Guys usually don't come out unless they're 100% sure they like men more than women. Women don't seem to have the same problem with openly swinging both ways, though I still think they must swing to one side slightly more than the other. I'm not trying to be rude here so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

[RogueState]

Jassu1979 wrote...

LaurenShepard-N7 wrote...
2. They didn't do the same to Ashley, despite the fact plenty enough fans have been asking for FemshepXAshley.

Wait, what? They did do the same to Ashley. Here's proof.

Ummmmm... I'm not sure if you're serious but in case you are, this is a modded romance!  Ashley is an o/s romance only in the game

[78stonewobble]

LaurenShepard-N7 wrote...
I don't doubt that people can be attracted to both genders, but I don't understand how bisexual people can claim to be 50/50 attracted to both. Men and women are so different physically and personality wise, they must have a preference even it's 60/40. I think that's why people tend to see bisexual men as gay. A supposedly straight guy who mostly likes women would never admit to having a crush on another man, let alone date one, as that reputation would kill his chances with women. Guys usually don't come out unless they're 100% sure they like men more than women. Women don't seem to have the same problem with openly swinging both ways, though I still think they must swing to one side slightly more than the other. I'm not trying to be rude here so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

My x-gf was bisexual and we had a few philosophical discussions about how it was to be bi (we both loved to discuss everything).

According to her it was all about the person and his/her qualities. She kinda agreed with my guess that what she would eg. be looking for in another person was dependent on her... hmm ... well where she was mentally at any point in life. Needing different things for whatever life throws at you.

The deeper difference being that she could look at both men and women and be attracted. Whereas I, as a straight guy, never sees a man as romantical option.

I think we agreed upon that it was simply something hardwired in our brains.

I think the preference bias is due to the fact that you cannot have a man / woman that is the essentially same person (boiling the choice down to ONLY gender).

[MysticBinary82]

Wulfram wrote...

MysticBinary82 wrote...

Does Kaidan refers himself as bisexual? If you are Femshep he is straight and if you are Broshep he is gay. As simple as that. You know, cause Bro- and Femshep does not exist at the same time.

IIRC He fairly clearly appreciate's Liara's looks back in ME1.  And the dancers in Chora's Den.

Well I overhear such things. For me Kaidan is gay no matter what.

[sth128]

I don't see how any of this matters. Kaiden's sexual orientation doesn't really change his character now does it? Does being straight, gay, or bi somehow changes his actions or dedication toward saving Earth or aliens or anything else?

Sure he only talked about dating some girl on Arcturus station (or whatever), so what? Maybe the imminent destruction of the galaxy made him less choosey. Maybe he didn't choose to disclose his full sexual history in ME1 because it wasn't really relevant?

How come there are no discussions on Mordin's sexuality, or that Mordin replacement who likes to fantasize about Krogan sex?

[Wulfram]

sth128 wrote...

How come there are no discussions on Mordin's sexuality, or that Mordin replacement who likes to fantasize about Krogan sex?

Well, Mordin's quite straightforward.

"Salarian reproduction different, very little sex drive.  If intended to try human, would try you"

(To both Shepards)

[-Area51-Silent]

Why is this still a topic? because unless somthing is conceived in a way that there is homosexuality in it, then it shouldn't be rigged in at the end to simply bump sales. I am more surprised that those supporters of same sex relationships aren't more angry that this was simply a ploy to get your cash and nothing else. It worked in DA:O because the characters were done well, they were integral to the story and were written in such a way that it worked. Your character had a very open possibility of starting out gay/bi and developing that way.

To toss in Traynor and Cortez, then make other characters mysteriously bisexual (in the midst of chaos, we aren't talking about people who had a lot of "soul searching time here") is just insulting, and should be more so to the folks that are gay.

To make an odd statement, but a statement none the less, its said that "being gay isn't a choice, it is somthing you're born with," I agree that is more than likely true, so then why would the opposite be true? If Shepard was concieved in the series as straight (regardless of whether the POSSIBILITY of him being bi was out there initially), it should have simply continued that way through the trilogy. We know they will make more "Mass Effect" games with a new protagonist that will hopefully be compelling, and we know that it is likely that he/she will be concieved to have the potential to be gay as will characters that develop be able to be gay/bi. I think that creates ground to do those relationships properly.

I am sorry though, I believe that the same sex relationships in the game here were done more as ploy for cash than for anything else (maybe media attention? DA:O sure got a lot of that, but ME3, not so much).

TL;DR
If you establish a character in 2 games as striaght, don't just toss in gay/bisexuality in the last game as a ploy to drive sales. Its either concieved and executed in the beginning or not at all.

[Rinji the Bearded]

-Area51-Silent wrote...

Why is this still a topic? because unless somthing is conceived in a way that there is homosexuality in it, then it shouldn't be rigged in at the end to simply bump sales. I am more surprised that those supporters of same sex relationships aren't more angry that this was simply a ploy to get your cash and nothing else. It worked in DA:O because the characters were done well, they were integral to the story and were written in such a way that it worked. Your character had a very open possibility of starting out gay/bi and developing that way.

To toss in Traynor and Cortez, then make other characters mysteriously bisexual (in the midst of chaos, we aren't talking about people who had a lot of "soul searching time here") is just insulting, and should be more so to the folks that are gay.

To make an odd statement, but a statement none the less, its said that "being gay isn't a choice, it is somthing you're born with," I agree that is more than likely true, so then why would the opposite be true? If Shepard was concieved in the series as straight (regardless of whether the POSSIBILITY of him being bi was out there initially), it should have simply continued that way through the trilogy. We know they will make more "Mass Effect" games with a new protagonist that will hopefully be compelling, and we know that it is likely that he/she will be concieved to have the potential to be gay as will characters that develop be able to be gay/bi. I think that creates ground to do those relationships properly.

I am sorry though, I believe that the same sex relationships in the game here were done more as ploy for cash than for anything else (maybe media attention? DA:O sure got a lot of that, but ME3, not so much).

TL;DR
If you establish a character in 2 games as striaght, don't just toss in gay/bisexuality in the last game as a ploy to drive sales. Its either concieved and executed in the beginning or not at all.

TL;DR indeed

Yes, homosexuality isn't a choice. No, not all people realize they are homosexual from the day they were born.
So you can have a male Shepard decide that he's into dudes even when he's in  his 30s.

Your idea that the homosexual romances were only a "ploy for cash" is irrelevant because the ENTIRE GAME is a ploy for cash, what do you think they make games simply for our enjoyment?  The romances are optional content, and they added homosexual options to make the content more inclusive, which would benefit both them and players who want the homosexual content.

Jesus Christ.  Is it that hard to understand?

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 19 avril 2012 - 02:19 .

[78stonewobble]

sth128 wrote...

I don't see how any of this matters. Kaiden's sexual orientation doesn't really change his character now does it? Does being straight, gay, or bi somehow changes his actions or dedication toward saving Earth or aliens or anything else?

Sure he only talked about dating some girl on Arcturus station (or whatever), so what? Maybe the imminent destruction of the galaxy made him less choosey. Maybe he didn't choose to disclose his full sexual history in ME1 because it wasn't really relevant?

How come there are no discussions on Mordin's sexuality, or that Mordin replacement who likes to fantasize about Krogan sex?

Well I see it more like "unique and complete characters" versus "watered down bland" characters" but not just regarding the sexuality. Also eg. the moral choices you make. If you're somewhat an ass you wouldn't be able to romance certain characters (outside the romance dialgues) and vice versa.

[The Angry One]

The real question is, is Harbinger bisexual, and what is his actual gender?
Inquiring minds must know.