The introduction of the kid at the beginning of ME3 and subsequent dream scenes was actually the first indication I got that something was wrong with the story. I just don't understand why they would try to shift the emotional focus to a non-character like that instead of relying on your companions. I get that there are things that can upset Shepard, like witnessing a kid die. But to have that as the emotional focus that haunts him throughout the game just doesn't make sense. Shepard has witnessed far, far worse.
What they should have done, was to focus on your companions. Obvious right? Imagine dream sequences in which Garrus is indoctrinated and turns against you, Tali is brutally gunned down by heretic Geth, Liara spiked into a husk etc. I remember how I felt watching cute and perky Kelly being liquified in ME2 once...
When the developers have such amazing characters, why not use them? It would have made me far more emotionally engaged.
Dreams about the kid and loss of emotional focus.
Débuté par
Guest_Lyme Eilserv_*
, avril 19 2012 11:36
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#2
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:38
Biotic_Warlock
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I think the BieberNotYetReaper was basically the one who symbolises all the loses Shepard has witnessed. I believe in the second/third dream the Virmire fatality voice is heard, too.
The dreams could have been further expanded though. Such as if wrex or any ME2 squaddies die.
The dreams could have been further expanded though. Such as if wrex or any ME2 squaddies die.
Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 19 avril 2012 - 11:39 .
#3
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:39
likta_
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I have to agree. I even think the Virmire victim as the Catalyst would have worked tremendously better. Except Kaidan died on Virmire, **** that guy.
#4
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:40
Biotic_Warlock
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likta_ wrote...
I have to agree. I even think the Virmire victim as the Catalyst would have worked tremendously better. Except Kaidan died on Virmire, **** that guy.
You killed my Kaidan baybes? D:
MURDERER!
Okay i kill off Ashley a lot and got Tali harbinged in ME2 so... nvm.
#5
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:41
TookYoCookies
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The child killed alot of the emotion for me. The dream sequences seemed like they were sucked straight out of F.E.A.R and imported to ME universe. Im actually almost positive there is a dream sequence in F.E.A.R where you run towards alice and she bursts into flames..
#6
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:44
The Invisible Commando
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That's what gets me about this whole game. Some of it was brilliant and then some of it was awful and lazy. It's like you have a whole writing team not on the same page. The end was written with no input from the other writers.
Modifié par The Invisible Commando, 19 avril 2012 - 11:45 .
#7
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:45
KingZayd
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TookYoCookies wrote...
The child killed alot of the emotion for me. The dream sequences seemed like they were sucked straight out of F.E.A.R and imported to ME universe. Im actually almost positive there is a dream sequence in F.E.A.R where you run towards alice and she bursts into flames..
multiple dream sequences more like. and those ones worked. they gave you a hint of backstory bit by bit.
Modifié par KingZayd, 19 avril 2012 - 11:45 .
#8
Guest_Lyme Eilserv_*
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:47
Guest_Lyme Eilserv_*
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Biotic_Warlock wrote...
I think the BieberNotYetReaper was basically the one who symbolises all the loses Shepard has witnessed. I believe in the second/third dream the Virmire fatality voice is heard, too.
The dreams could have been further expanded though. Such as if wrex or any ME2 squaddies die.
Yes, I understand the point they were trying to make, but I contest it. Why would a random kid symbolize that? Shepard is a battle-hardened soldier. Surely it would make more sense if it was someone close to him, or someone from early in his career like Kaidan/Ashley.
Ditch the kid, use the companions.
#9
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:48
wright1978
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Yep kid and dream sequences were very poor. Made zero sense to me why Shep after all he has experienced should suddenly care for some non entity of a kid.
#10
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:48
Iconoclaste
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Shepard's crewmates are soldiers, or at least adults knowing the risks of their endeavor. The kid is more symbolic of innocence, not having any part in this war except the role of victim.
#11
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:51
likta_
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Iconoclaste wrote...
Shepard's crewmates are soldiers, or at least adults knowing the risks of their endeavor. The kid is more symbolic of innocence, not having any part in this war except the role of victim.
But we as audience have no connection to that brat whatsoever, isn't this game supposed to be experienced by US?
#12
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:52
Nero Narmeril
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No sense. My Shepard:
- survived Akuze (50 soldiers died here)
- sacrificed Kaidan on Virmire
- saw the liquided colonists in Collector base
- could have casualties in Collector base
- saw dead of Mordin, Thane and Legion
And he has trauma because some random kid got pwned by Reaper? No me gusta.
- survived Akuze (50 soldiers died here)
- sacrificed Kaidan on Virmire
- saw the liquided colonists in Collector base
- could have casualties in Collector base
- saw dead of Mordin, Thane and Legion
And he has trauma because some random kid got pwned by Reaper? No me gusta.
Modifié par Nero Narmeril, 19 avril 2012 - 11:53 .
#13
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:53
Iconoclaste
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Mass Effect 3 was made for players with all backgrounds, including those that did not play the previous games. They would not feel the same attachment to crewmates than the one long timers have.
#14
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:53
Nightwriter
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The kid was the best they could do. They wanted to use someone you'd failed to save, and if they'd used a dead companion to haunt you, people would just have complained that their Shepard felt nothing for that character and that they resented BioWare for forcing their Shepard to act like he/she was upset about that squaddie's death.
The kid is a random innocent, a child, and a dead child is something relatively everyone can acknowledge as an example of the horrors of war.
The kid is a random innocent, a child, and a dead child is something relatively everyone can acknowledge as an example of the horrors of war.
#15
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:54
TookYoCookies
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Iconoclaste wrote...
Shepard's crewmates are soldiers, or at least adults knowing the risks of their endeavor. The kid is more symbolic of innocence, not having any part in this war except the role of victim.
In war no one is innocent, and against the Reapers: every one is a victim. The 3rd entry isnt the time to introduce a contrived character to bring those emotions out, especially when there were already pre-established pathways open to convey such emotions (loss, fear, self-doubt, guilt) through losses of former squadmates. Characters the player would have recognized from the get go.
#16
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:55
Iconoclaste
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Good point.Nightwriter wrote...
The kid was the best they could do. They wanted to use someone you'd failed to save, and if they'd used a dead companion to haunt you, people would just have complained that their Shepard felt nothing for that character and that they resented BioWare for forcing their Shepard to act like he/she was upset about that squaddie's death.
The kid is a random innocent, a child, and a dead child is something relatively everyone can acknowledge as an example of the horrors of war.
#17
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:57
Nero Narmeril
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The kid is a random innocent, a child, and a dead child is something relatively everyone can acknowledge as an example of the horrors of war.
If so, why the renegate Shep HAVE TO care about some kid? Especially Shep with Torfan in background.
#18
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:57
GreenSoda
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And that's the crux of the matter.Iconoclaste wrote...
Mass Effect 3 was made for players with all backgrounds, including those that did not play the previous games. They would not feel the same attachment to crewmates than the one long timers have.
A lot of ME3 fell flat because BW had to take new gamers into account.
Modifié par GreenSoda, 19 avril 2012 - 11:57 .
#19
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 11:59
Iconoclaste
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We live in a time where same sex romance in game is accepted because it reflects evolution of real society. We also see wide acceptance of species differences to reflect tendencies of our real world. I have yet to see the same for children, since the only one we see closely in this game is referred to as "brat", while in our society the UN recently included them as humans like everybody else, to the full extent of laws.
Modifié par Iconoclaste, 19 avril 2012 - 12:00 .
#20
Guest_Lyme Eilserv_*
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 12:00
Guest_Lyme Eilserv_*
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Nightwriter wrote...
The kid was the best they could do. They wanted to use someone you'd failed to save, and if they'd used a dead companion to haunt you, people would just have complained that their Shepard felt nothing for that character and that they resented BioWare for forcing their Shepard to act like he/she was upset about that squaddie's death.
The kid is a random innocent, a child, and a dead child is something relatively everyone can acknowledge as an example of the horrors of war.
My Shepard felt nothing for that kid. If they used the LI for instance, you'd be pretty sure players would have an emotional attachment.
#21
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 12:01
Iconoclaste
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Guess why they didn't do that.Lyme Eilserv wrote...
Nightwriter wrote...
The kid was the best they could do. They wanted to use someone you'd failed to save, and if they'd used a dead companion to haunt you, people would just have complained that their Shepard felt nothing for that character and that they resented BioWare for forcing their Shepard to act like he/she was upset about that squaddie's death.
The kid is a random innocent, a child, and a dead child is something relatively everyone can acknowledge as an example of the horrors of war.
My Shepard felt nothing for that kid. If they used the LI for instance, you'd be pretty sure players would have an emotional attachment.
And in fact, your Shepard DID feel something for that child : he had nightmares about him.
Modifié par Iconoclaste, 19 avril 2012 - 12:03 .
#22
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 12:03
GreenSoda
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What has a deeper emotional impact to you:Iconoclaste wrote...
We live in a time where same sex romance in game is accepted because it reflects evolution of real society. We also see wide acceptance of species differences to reflect tendencies of our real world. I have yet to see the same for children, since the only one we see closely in this game is referred to as "brat", while in our society the UN recently included them as humans like everybody else, to the full extent of laws.
a) your mother dies
you see a random 10year old die on the newsBoth are horrible events, but who would seriously pick b ?
#23
Guest_Lyme Eilserv_*
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 12:04
Guest_Lyme Eilserv_*
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Iconoclaste wrote...
Guess why they didn't do that.Lyme Eilserv wrote...
Nightwriter wrote...
The kid was the best they could do. They wanted to use someone you'd failed to save, and if they'd used a dead companion to haunt you, people would just have complained that their Shepard felt nothing for that character and that they resented BioWare for forcing their Shepard to act like he/she was upset about that squaddie's death.
The kid is a random innocent, a child, and a dead child is something relatively everyone can acknowledge as an example of the horrors of war.
My Shepard felt nothing for that kid. If they used the LI for instance, you'd be pretty sure players would have an emotional attachment.
And in fact, your Shepard DID feel something for that child : he had nightmares about him.
No, please explain.
Which is what I'm contesting.
#24
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 12:04
Iconoclaste
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This is far from being an adequate comparison to what happens in the game.GreenSoda wrote...
What has a deeper emotional impact to you:Iconoclaste wrote...
We live in a time where same sex romance in game is accepted because it reflects evolution of real society. We also see wide acceptance of species differences to reflect tendencies of our real world. I have yet to see the same for children, since the only one we see closely in this game is referred to as "brat", while in our society the UN recently included them as humans like everybody else, to the full extent of laws.
a) your mother dies
Both are horrible events, but who would seriously pick b ?
#25
Posté 19 avril 2012 - 12:08
TookYoCookies
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Iconoclaste wrote...
We live in a time where same sex romance in game is accepted because it reflects evolution of real society. We also see wide acceptance of species differences to reflect tendencies of our real world. I have yet to see the same for children, since the only one we see closely in this game is referred to as "brat", while in our society the UN recently included them as humans like everybody else, to the full extent of laws.
Im not de-humanizing the child, sure im upset the child gets caught in the crossfire, doesnt change the non-connection between sheperd and the child. Superficial relationship is superficial. Sheperd has done/seen enough at this point to have a certain amount of numbness established, rendering deaths of non-aquainted random people (even children included:() to be a non issue. He just killed 300,000 batarians 6 months prior to this encounter, there were probly a hefty amount of innocent batarian babies involved in that, and Sheperd was the REASON they would have died. This child's demise was out of sheperd's control when he decided to stay in the vent.
