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I challenge those who hate the ending to read this


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#476
japinthebox

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nwj94 wrote...

Just like in politics if you have to explain why your losing than you've already lost.

The ending should make sense within the context of the ending. If everyone (And it was everyone there is plenty of evidence from a huge number of polls indicating that 80-90% of the community is upset,) gut reaction upon finishing the game was disgust than you did it wrong.

And as a final note this condescending attitude of the pro ending movement is exactly why your treated so badly on this forum. You don't "Challenge me" to do anything, you offer a polite view point.


I'm not OP. I would have worded it differently.

I also agree throughout my article that Bioware has "lost" by making that gamble, and that they should have made all these things more clear.

#477
Deemz

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I read it and still hate the ending. The problem is not that I don't understand the end, it is just a total opposite to what I find entertaining.

#478
Ajx-

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@op

Challenge accepted. Read it and I still feel the same.

#479
Mordimor

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This article is a great read. Thanks OP. It honestly makes me hopeful for the EC. I never wanted a new ending; didn't have many problems with it except for plotholes. And it does need some closure.

#480
Kreid

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Hjelsao wrote...

A well written piece, but I feel it attacks the problem from the wrong angle. NoBrandMinda describes this problem perfectly in the comments section: "You seem to forget that Mass Effect is a work of fiction. Real world concepts only apply if they are supported by the narrative.
The only “rules” that apply to a fictional universe are the ones that are established in the narrative. This is especially true in a science fiction or fantasy story where the laws of the real world may not apply. Our idea of what is “normal” in this universe is shaped by the narrative."

You can be as scientifically sound as you want; it doesn't matter if it doesn't enter into the internal logic of the fictional universe.

The codex explains mass effect fields but it doesn't explain gravity or Einstein's field equations, should I assume they don't apply/exist in the ME universe?

Modifié par Creid-X, 20 avril 2012 - 01:11 .


#481
KillerHappyFace

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japinthebox wrote...

KillerHappyFace wrote...

japinthebox wrote...

The
godchild is my #1 issue with the ending. He's the reason why no amount
of clarity will let me truly enjoy the end of the game.


Really?
It's just an avatar for a computer. I'm completely indifferent on the
choice to use the kid. There are tons of weird things like that
throughout the game. I'm pretty sure there are bigger issues with the
ending than that.

Coming in close
second, I still feel that each of the ending choices were horribly out
of line with the main themes of the series. The series is about
self-determination. Not just protecting life in the galaxy, but
protecting life's freedom to choose its own fate. I don't want to have
to revoke that in 2/3 of the endings of the game.


I
answered similarly earlier, but again, that's just one theme out of
many. I don't see how that's thrown out either, except if you take the
synthesis ending.


I explained why I
disliked the godchild, but you kinda clipped it off there. Google up
'asspull' and 'deus ex machina'. He's both of these. Shepard did nothing
to deserve a deus ex machina at this point; the writers just slapped
him on to babble about something in the last moments of the game.

He
didn't need to be there. He was incompetent at his purpose. He came
completely out of left field. He was a brand new story element added in
after the climax and during the falling action.


So
if Harbinger took his role and came out at the end saying "all right,
you got us with the Crucible, you win, now what do you want us to do",
would you have been happy? Because that's more or less the same thing.

As
for the "one theme out of many", yes. There's lot of themes in the
game, good job at spotting that. Most stories have lots of themes. I was talking about the main
theme of the game -- people choosing their own destiny. This is present
at all times, unlike the theme of organic v synthetic struggle.
1) Control: Shepard forces his will on a group of sentient beings.
2) Synthesis: Shepard forces the entire galaxy to homogenize.
That's two out of three endings that betray this theme.


And when I say "lots of themes", I do mean many main themes. I don't see a problem with having multiple main themes.

Also, Bioware has said that the synthetic vs. organic struggle was present even before Mass Effect had a name:

"At
first its repetitious annunciations were absurd and funny, but
eventually the team began to think about its implications. Was Raymond
Kurzweil right? Within 30 years could we really reach that point of
singularity where man and machine are indistinguishable? If that
crucible is forthcoming, the tension between organic and synthetic life
could be an appropriate theme to frame the SFX (old Mass Effect code
name) triology." 

Edit: full quote added.

Do you even read what you don't directly quote? Edit: cause what you left out of my first post was kinda the point of what I've been saying. You mostly seem to ignore my arguments so far. I'm beginning to consider that you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

Yes, Harbinger taking the place of starbrat is exactly the same thing. And I would still be unhappy. As I said, they'd still be trying to explain the supposedly incomprehensible motivation for the primary antagonists within a few meager lines. And it would still be an asspull -- creating a solution out of thin air without properly explaining it beforehand. My issue with the starbrat stems from what he represents and how he fails at the plot task he's given, not the form he takes.

ME1 resonated stongly with the threat of synthetic life. Yes, it was a primary theme of the game, right alongside freedom of choice. ME1 =/= ME 2 or ME3. That theme all but vanished until the last moments of the ME3: each and every synthetic you meet outside of ME1 is a reasonable being that wants to coexist. And suddenly they cannot be trusted at all. Great. So even the organics v synthetic theme (as it existed in ME2&3) was violated.

It was all about how synthetics are really no different from organics; its more of a civil rights debate than an end-of-the-universe threat (and it was really present to further the self-determination theme).

Modifié par KillerHappyFace, 20 avril 2012 - 01:15 .


#482
sth128

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(Mr.?) Rei is assuming a lot of things. He is assuming the control ending is erroneously animated and that the Crucible somehow forced the Catalyst to surrender. Yet in the section right after he quotes Star Child saying "I can't do this, and I won't".

Being Japanese himself (as inferred from the article), he should know that when you surrender, you will do whatever the *bleep* you are told. When Japan surrendered to the American's atomic crucibles, they had their emperor come out and announce to his subjects that he is not divine. When you "surrender", you don't get to say "can't" or "won't".

But of course, Rei also said he agreed with Hitler. Apparently the Axis love the ME3 ending.

Oh and that type 1 vs. type 2 civilization is just plain bull. Geth already started constructing a Dyson sphere while a bunch of type 1s apparently created type 3 tech (ie. Crucible) from magic. Maybe we should destroy all monkeys in case they somehow create an anti-matter bomb after a few thousand years out of their understanding of the universe?

Modifié par sth128, 20 avril 2012 - 01:13 .


#483
Iconoclaste

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Creid-X wrote...

Hjelsao wrote...

A well written piece, but I feel it attacks the problem from the wrong angle. NoBrandMinda describes this problem perfectly in the comments section: "You seem to forget that Mass Effect is a work of fiction. Real world concepts only apply if they are supported by the narrative.
The only “rules” that apply to a fictional universe are the ones that are established in the narrative. This is especially true in a science fiction or fantasy story where the laws of the real world may not apply. Our idea of what is “normal” in this universe is shaped by the narrative."

You can be as scientifically sound as you want; it doesn't matter if it doesn't enter into the internal logic of the fictional universe.

The codex explains mass effect fields but it doesn't explain gravity or Einstein'sfield equations, should I assume they don't apply/exist in the ME universe?

The Codex "describes" mass effect fields, it doesn't give the math behind the concept. The same goes for Einstein's concepts. If Mass Effect was to explain FTL with the math, it would have won Nobel prizes.

#484
gmboy902

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One problem I have with this article is that it expects us to draw a bunch of conclusions (speculate) off of what we are given.

Drive the Reapers into a star? But we didn't. The Relays could have been a controlled explosion? But that wasn't clarified.

Furthermore, it is outrageous to think that someone should have to have knowledge of somewhat higher up and theories of (honestly) uncertain validity to understand a video game's ending. Nor do we want Mass Effect 3 to answer questions about our universe that Stephen Hawkings has thought of. We want the ending of Mass Effect 3 to end the questions that Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 have brought up, and the ending failed to do that.

He says we should just accept the synthesis "technology" because a race as advanced as the Reapers could create it. Here's the problem; most of the high-tech stuff in Mass Effect is space magic. FTL travel is impossible, and thus space magic, for example. But it is explained space magic, at the very least. We need more of an explanation for synthesis that "it absorbs your DNA". By what means does it transmit the new genetic code? How does it trigger the change in organic life?

He says that Sovereign's speech in ME1 foreshadowed the ending. No. Not at all. We've known, and accepted, that the Reapers controlled the evolution of civilization and systematically wiped them out. We were never given some BS idea like "they were preventing synthetics from wiping out organics". We were never told they were controlled by a god-figure who wasn't introduced until the very end of the game (except literally like one line "foreshadowing" it in ME3). Sovereign's speech only validified the ruthless nature of the Reapers, and why they had to be stopped.

Granted, the story of ME3 did contain some closure. Some. But it didn't fully address everything, even the genophage. We don't care about the genophage, we care about the Krogan - does the cure lead them to reproduce rapidly and try to take on the galaxy again? If we sabotage the cure, do they die out, wage another futile war, or find another way to cure the disease? How do we know that the geth's, individualism or not, won't realize their technological superiority and try to take over Rannoch again? These are things we need resolved.

tl;dr The author seems to place the ending's value in modern astrobiology and speculative potential over the blatant lack of conclusion to the Mass Effect arc.

#485
Adanu

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sp0ck 06 wrote...

AcesRedd wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

 If you hated/disliked/didn't understand/were let down by the ending, read this editorial.

http://galacticpillo...ffect-3-ending/

It really might make you look differently at not just the ending but the whole of ME3.  If you want to love the conclusion to the series but just can't, please give this a read.  It's long but worth it.  


The length of this article vs. the length of the craptacular ending reinforces the amount of fail in the ending.
I wish there was a mathematician/scientist guy that could lay out the formula for me, but I'll try my best to explain.

article + ending = more fail than article and ending put together

wait wait

article + ending < (article + ending) ?

damn I think what we need is a physicist in here? 


Instead of wasting time in endless threads about the same subjects, why not waste time reading something that's actually incredibly well thought out and could possibly make you look at the ending is a slightly positive way?  

Do you guys just WANT to hate everything Mass Effect now?

Just give it a chance.


YOu're not going to change anyones mind here. The anti ending people have made up their mind that the ending sucks and nothing short of a full rewrite is going to change that.

You're talking to a brick wall.

#486
ShadowNinja1129

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This is probably the most well-written and insightful pro-ending posting I've read.

That being said, I still don't like the ending. Not because I'm stubborn, but because I disagree with enough of this article that I remain unconvinced. I'd like to argue a lot of these points (in a civil manner of course, I think I'd thoroughly enjoy having lunch with the original author and discussing and debating many sciency and philosophical things), but I'll keep it trimmed down to general complaints to keep this from becoming too much of a wall of text.

First, as has been posted before, a lot of the first segments come across as logic smoke-and-mirrors. I very much understand the ideas (or the math) and am familiar with concepts such as the Kardashev Scale, the Drake equation, end-of-the-universe scenarios (Big Crush, Big Rip, universe-scale entropy, etc etc), the technological singularity, quantum entanglement, and so on. Unfortunately, much of this is never referenced within the ME series.

MEs writers are big nerds like us, they took the time to give a plausible physics explanation for all the major concepts and technologies used in the game, whether that be through dialogue or a codex entry or what have you. They explain how mass effect fields work (eezo makes mass-altering fields), how the relays work (effectively create massless corridors), how you need fuel to fly between galaxies even though there's no air resistance in the void of space (engines fire forward for first half of trip, backwards for second to decelerate, peak speed is only achieved momentarily at halfway-point), how older comms worked (data sent through relays), how the new comms work (quantum entaglement), the list goes on.

However, they NEVER included content on the Kardashev Scale OR the Drake Equation in any of the dialogue or codex entries that I was exposed to. If its in the game somewhere, please, refer me, I'd honestly be interested in reading/listening to it. They do indirectly touch on the technological singularity once or twice (both Legion and Javik do if I recall), but they never refer to either of the two main concepts you used to explain the ending. I didn't consider the Kardshev scale in my appraisal of the ending not because I wasn't familiar with it, but rather because THE GAME never claimed familiarity with it. Perhaps BioWare simply assumed familiarity with these concepts. Their track record (of at least attempting a scientific explanation behind just about everything) stands against that. Going against evidence and assuming they did assume familiarity, it supports that the ending WAS poorly done, because it incorporated new concepts that were never explored within the game itself.

I'll use a little device called Occam's razor here (since the device has become wildly popular on these forums as of late for some reason). Stack up your article against IT, and, surprisingly, Occam's razor favors IT. Why? Because both the article posted and IT make some pretty large leaps and assumptions about the ending sequence. The "proof" used to justify IT, however, is actually present in the game. Your evidence is not. Ergo, less assumption and logical leaps are used to support and defend IT because the evidence has already been established within the universe. I'm not saying this makes IT true (that's not even the purpose of Occam's razor, a point many here on BSN seem to skip over), just saying that from a logical leap perspective, this article is unfortunately doing no better.

Also, the focus of your article seems pretty disjointed. The first few sections go into a bunch of scientific soft-shoeing (albeit well done soft-shoeing) to explain the "deeper meaning that everyone missed" in the endings, and then the rest turns into a Mythbuster's style "Fact or Faked," with the writer having (likely inadvertently) cherrypicked some of the worst misconceptions and arguments to dispell and provide support to the meta-thesis (which would be "the ending was good", I guess?), often through proof by contradiction, or by missing the point entirely and getting lost in debating a nuance of the issue.

Also, your final thoughts were surprisingly caustic, in my opinion. I've purchased all three games and all DLCs as well as plenty of other ME memorabilia, and although I hated the ending I never for one second entertained the idea of returning any of my purchased goods. I also never filed any complaints with the BBB or the FTC. Although I never donated to the Child's Play charity (I'm a poor college student, I don't have two pennies to rub together) I did express approval and support for the idea of performing a peaceful protest through charity. So even though your closing thoughts technically don't apply to me I still felt like I was being talked down to directly simply because I didn't like the ending. Considering the rest of the article had been articulate and temperate, the closing thoughts felt more like an angry, loaded rant than anything else. You let the beast out a little there, and it didn't do you any favors.

TL;DR (Since this turned into a wall of text anyway XD)

Overall opinion: Pretty good article, well-worded, I disagree with several points, and I feel like the overall point of the article got lost in itself. Instead of an explanation on why the endings were good, the article goes into a detailed analysis of "The ending makes sense because science" rather than "The ending was good because reasons."

#487
Kreid

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sth128 wrote...

(Mr.?) Rei is assuming a lot of things. He is assuming the control ending is erroneously animated and that the Crucible somehow forced the Catalyst to surrender. Yet in the section right after he quotes Star Child saying "I can't do this, and I won't".

Being Japanese himself (as inferred from the article), he should know that when you surrender, you will do whatever the *bleep* you are told. When Japan surrendered to the American's atomic crucibles, they had their emperor come out and announce to his subjects that he is not divine. When you "surrender", you don't get to say "can't" or "won't".

But of course, Rei also said he agreed with Hitler. Apparently the Axis love the ME3 ending.

Oh and that type 1 vs. type 2 civilization is just plain bull. Geth already started constructing a Dyson sphere while a bunch of type 1s apparently created type 3 tech (ie. Crucible) from magic. Maybe we should destroy all monkeys in case they somehow create an anti-matter bomb after a few thousand years out of their understand of the universe?

First of all, your post has all kinds of unpleasant undertones but I won't say anymore because you're obviously looking for a reaction.
Second, it took a billion years of united efforts from the best of the best of many civilizations to create the Crucible, your coparision is nonsensical.

#488
Asharad Hett

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If you have to bring in Stephen Hawking to explain a plot, then the plot was poorly written.

#489
nwj94

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japinthebox wrote...

nwj94 wrote...

Just like in politics if you have to explain why your losing than you've already lost.

The ending should make sense within the context of the ending. If everyone (And it was everyone there is plenty of evidence from a huge number of polls indicating that 80-90% of the community is upset,) gut reaction upon finishing the game was disgust than you did it wrong.

And as a final note this condescending attitude of the pro ending movement is exactly why your treated so badly on this forum. You don't "Challenge me" to do anything, you offer a polite view point.


I'm not OP. I would have worded it differently.

I also agree throughout my article that Bioware has "lost" by making that gamble, and that they should have made all these things more clear.


Ah my mistake on the first part.

As for the second my point is not that BW "Lost" but rather that if you have to explain it outside of the context (And you yourself said that several points are rather esoteric) then it was poorly done.  The ending should make sense within the context of the ending not after reading a multi page article.

The poltic adage was just to undscore explaining why something is going wrong means that it is already wrong. 

As for your last point that they should have made it clear.  I somehow doubt that BW was trying to communicate the idea you presented.  The problem with the ending is that it feels sloppy and rushed (Check out the 39 minute video on youtube Mass effect 3 ending a thoughtful nerd rage or something like that for why it feels rushed).  If they couldn't be bothered to put effort into it, why should I assume that they put effort into coming up with the concept they didn't impliment right?

Apolgies again for the first mistake, listened to so many Pro enders come in with a eltist you-just-don't-get-it attitide that I projected that onto you. :)

#490
Riion

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I've read the whole article, and the main point from which I garner is: "...to [understand the ending], you need to be aware of the some of the rather esoteric theories and hypotheses in astrobiology being discussed in the past few years by the likes of Michio Kaku and Stephen Hawking."
Let me first say that I am an avid science nerd, and I was well aware of these concepts beforehand; this did not aid me in any way to enjoy the endings. So now, let's take a look at your "scientific basis".

1. Your first point... actually, I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your first point. Reapers' goal is to prevent other species from evolving? That wasn't their goal at all, it was to conserve organic life. In some retarded manner. But that's besides the point. Why would the Reapers even bother trying to maintain their perch? They are so stupidly ahead of us (supposedly), they could easily have advanced to a Type III or beyond civilization. Using Dr. Kaku's own projections, 1 million years is a VERY generous amount of time to have attained Type III status from a Type II civilization.

2. You also stated that we were "confronted with the potential for the known species to become a Type II civilization". I'm not sure where you got that from; how does any of the ending options give us the ability to become a Type II civilization? This "transition shock" which you described seems to be one of your core arguments as to why the ending felt so detached, but I have yet to see evidence as to this "transition shock" being existent. Unless you meant Shepard was given the POWER to commit one ACT of a Type II/III civilization, in which case- What the hell? This is basically saying, we didn't get a deus ex machina, we BECAME a deux ex machina. Which doesn't seem any better.

3. The infamous "Grey Goo" scenario. Due to the threat of self replicating nanobots, we need the Reapers to remove all organics capable of doing so. Aside from not knowing why the Reapers would CARE in the first place that: nanobots will transform everything or that the galaxy is full of synthetic life, why couldn't the threat be organic? The Rachni, the Krogan, some mutant virus, super powered Thresher Maws, etc. I believe nothing is determined in this world; the only certainty in life is uncertainty itself.

4. Aliens all resemble humans. Pretty sure this is just a case of appealing to all the anthropocentric dicks out there (jokes, jokes). I'm not sure why being in the same Kardeshev tier means that each species must resemble each other. So no, I don't think Mass Effect "successfully answers the infamous question that has plagued science fiction since the inception of the genre".

I agree with you for some of the minor plot hole details though. However, overall, the ending is still not satisfying, and no amount of speculation will fix it at this point.

Edited for formatting.

Modifié par Riion, 20 avril 2012 - 01:20 .


#491
japinthebox

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Being Japanese himself (as inferred from the article), he should know that when you surrender, you will do whatever the *bleep* you are told. When Japan surrendered to the American's atomic crucibles, they had their emperor come out and announce to his subjects that he is not divine. When you "surrender", you don't get to say "can't" or "won't".


Yeah, and that's how America convinced us to create unicorns and cure cancer.

The surrendered Japanese couldn't and wouldn't install American bases in Okinawa. That's something the US did.

Oh and that type 1 vs. type 2 civilization is just plain bull. Geth already started constructing a Dyson sphere while a bunch of type 1s apparently created type 3 tech (ie. Crucible) from magic. Maybe we should destroy all monkeys in case they somehow create an anti-matter bomb after a few thousand years out of their understanding of the universe?


A dyson sphere isn't necessarily the most difficult of type 2 technologies, obviously. We're a type 0 civilization, yet we have the Internet.

But of course, Rei also said he agreed with Hitler. Apparently the Axis love the ME3 ending.


Okay, I take serious offense to this.

I said very clearly about Hitler: "I agree with Hitler that reducing unemployment is a high priority, but that doesn’t mean I’d sympathize with him in any way." 

#492
OdanUrr

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sp0ck 06 wrote...

 If you hated/disliked/didn't understand/were let down by the ending, read this editorial.

http://galacticpillo...ffect-3-ending/

It really might make you look differently at not just the ending but the whole of ME3.  If you want to love the conclusion to the series but just can't, please give this a read.  It's long but worth it.  


Agree with most of what he says, but the astrobiology bit is pushing it. The Reapers being Type II and the Crucible Type III and what not... I don't think it's there.:?

#493
Kreid

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Iconoclaste wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

Hjelsao wrote...

A well written piece, but I feel it attacks the problem from the wrong angle. NoBrandMinda describes this problem perfectly in the comments section: "You seem to forget that Mass Effect is a work of fiction. Real world concepts only apply if they are supported by the narrative.
The only “rules” that apply to a fictional universe are the ones that are established in the narrative. This is especially true in a science fiction or fantasy story where the laws of the real world may not apply. Our idea of what is “normal” in this universe is shaped by the narrative."

You can be as scientifically sound as you want; it doesn't matter if it doesn't enter into the internal logic of the fictional universe.

The codex explains mass effect fields but it doesn't explain gravity or Einstein'sfield equations, should I assume they don't apply/exist in the ME universe?

The Codex "describes" mass effect fields, it doesn't give the math behind the concept. The same goes for Einstein's concepts. If Mass Effect was to explain FTL with the math, it would have won Nobel prizes.

That's not my point.

You can't say that only what we are shown through the narrative counts, because it's illogical, the ME universe is based on our own universe which means that our theories like an hypothetical Technological Singularity have the exact same chance of being real/not real.
We can apply today's scientific theories to the universe, specially since we have proof that the developers used them as a framework for the series.

#494
Harbinger of your Destiny

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Stopped reading when he advocated the control ending.

#495
GreyLord

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JPN17 wrote...

Another one of these "you didn't get it explanations." Just once I'd like to see a pro ender tell me why the ending is good without going into speculations about what probably or could have happened via their own imagination. I'm still waiting for that one. What it really comes down to is if you have to create your own version of the story to fill in the details, then the original author didn't do it right.


Been there, done that...multiple times.

Most of the time it ends up non-replied or people admit all they really want is a happy ending.

On the OTHER hand, I'm NOT a pro-ender.  I think the ending actually MAKES sense...but I absolutely LOATHE it.  I loathe how they presented it, and perhaps due to that, everything they did with it.  I DO see a MASSIVE plothole with the ID theory though...

I'd say...people, if you want a happy ending, just say that and stop being stupid by trying to write fan fiction which has a ton of holes as well...if you want something without plotholes...ID theory is not it...and most of the fanfiction endings aren't it either.

If you want a happy ending...THAT I can understand.

If you want an ending where your choices have MORE visible impact...I ALSO understand and can agree with that.

But if your main complaint is simply plotholes (and then half of those who are against the ending and say plotholes...have non-existent plotholes that actually are explained in the ending, the codex or somewhere in the actual game) then make them legitimate instead of made up or things that aren't actually plotholes.

I would like an ending where Shepard either survives, OR where his choices seem to have a more valid impact on the end...AND IT IS REACHABLE BY SINGLE PLAYER WITHOUT HAVING TO PLAY MULTI-PLAYER!!!

But, I'd say the ending isn't full of plotholes like people state and actually is rather consistent in it's background and storywise with the rest of the series.

Just very depressing overall.  Very disjointed.  It is also NOT that satisfying...and that I think is the biggest problem...it's not really all that satisfying for the player when the recieve the ending.  It's more like...stuff happens..the end...rather than...everything culminates into this final moment, the final climax of the story and everything you've worked so hard for is finally fulfilled...for better or for worse.

Modifié par GreyLord, 20 avril 2012 - 01:24 .


#496
frostajulie

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LucasShark wrote...

This ending is worthless, period. It violates the very themes and design choices of ME1 and 2, end of story.



And this is why it fails so hard.

#497
Hjelsao

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Creid-X wrote...

Hjelsao wrote...

A well written piece, but I feel it attacks the problem from the wrong angle. NoBrandMinda describes this problem perfectly in the comments section: "You seem to forget that Mass Effect is a work of fiction. Real world concepts only apply if they are supported by the narrative.
The only “rules” that apply to a fictional universe are the ones that are established in the narrative. This is especially true in a science fiction or fantasy story where the laws of the real world may not apply. Our idea of what is “normal” in this universe is shaped by the narrative."

You can be as scientifically sound as you want; it doesn't matter if it doesn't enter into the internal logic of the fictional universe.

The codex explains mass effect fields but it doesn't explain gravity or Einstein's field equations, should I assume they don't apply/exist in the ME universe?


I know little of Einstein's field equations, but I do know a few things about fiction. Yes, gravity exists in the ME universe, because you see it occuring. And as far as I know, certain of Einstein's key theories are directly contradicted by the existence of faster than light travel. That's why you have to be careful about the world you present, especially in an unnatural world as the ones we see in science fiction.

The claim that the events of the endings are supported by all these astrobiological theories is completely irrelevant, because they are never presented in the narrative. Maybe it's scientifically sound, but it is a narrative failure.  

#498
OdanUrr

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Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Stopped reading when he advocated the control ending.


I don't understand why the big deal about control, in the end you sacrifice yourself to save everyone.

#499
Iconoclaste

Iconoclaste
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We crazy bunch of type 0 beings not understand explanations from luminous type II scientists.

We just want to have fun with a crazy type 0 video game.

#500
Kreid

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Hjelsao wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

Hjelsao wrote...

A well written piece, but I feel it attacks the problem from the wrong angle. NoBrandMinda describes this problem perfectly in the comments section: "You seem to forget that Mass Effect is a work of fiction. Real world concepts only apply if they are supported by the narrative.
The only “rules” that apply to a fictional universe are the ones that are established in the narrative. This is especially true in a science fiction or fantasy story where the laws of the real world may not apply. Our idea of what is “normal” in this universe is shaped by the narrative."

You can be as scientifically sound as you want; it doesn't matter if it doesn't enter into the internal logic of the fictional universe.

The codex explains mass effect fields but it doesn't explain gravity or Einstein's field equations, should I assume they don't apply/exist in the ME universe?


I know little of Einstein's field equations, but I do know a few things about fiction. Yes, gravity exists in the ME universe, because you see it occuring. And as far as I know, certain of Einstein's key theories are directly contradicted by the existence of faster than light travel. That's why you have to be careful about the world you present, especially in an unnatural world as the ones we see in science fiction.

The claim that the events of the endings are supported by all these astrobiological theories is completely irrelevant, because they are never presented in the narrative. Maybe it's scientifically sound, but it is a narrative failure.  

I undestand what you're saying. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a pro-ender in fact I hate the ending in many ways for different reasons, but my point is that dismissing the points made in the article (the astrobiology theories) because they are not presented in the narrative is like dismissing gravity because it's not in the codex, the author is trying to get the point across that BioWare assumed their fans are familiar with those concepts and made a gamble that didn't pay off.