858 réponses à ce sujet

[ppeters77]

BattleVisor wrote...

The ending is garbage, and will always be garbage.

The mass effect III ending is unforgivable.

I just wanted to quote this.... 

[Abreu Road]

The symbology of the ending is nice. But it is poorly executed for Bioware standards.

Come on. It's a 150 hours, 5 years long journey to a 4 minutes CGI who changes 5% of it's assets depending on which ending you choose. You don't know a single **** of Earth's, character's and all the species in the galaxy's fate. And they clearly stated that there will be no games set after ME3. So... speculate, people!

They leave a lot of things to speculate, and the more we do this, worst are the conclusions we have. Exploding relays, destruction of all life on the galaxy, space magic, starvation, Normandy's planet, everyone trapped on Earth and Jungle Planet. For god's sake, they started to adress plot holes on twitter.

They really did a good job explaining everything storytelling-wise (Tuchanka, Rannoch, TIM's reasons), even Reapers circular logic is acceptable, but after that, they throw at us a completely new set of questions and absurdities because "Lot's of speculations for everyone!!!"

People don't get the ending? Maybe. Will some people, 20 years in the future look back and realize that ME3 ending was fantastic and way ahead of it's time? Maybe.

But Bioware also didn't get it why their fans played, invested and loved the Mass Effect universe.

[ahandsomeshark]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Master Che wrote...

sp0ck 06,

No one wants to guess or theorize as to what happened at the end or afterwards. We want to know. We did not pay $50-$79 on this just to imagine an ending. We wanted to see the conclusion. This isn't a conclusion. It is speculation of a conclusion. This is not what we were promised.

I'm not disputing that.  I agree we did not see the conclusion.  That doesn't mean the ending was objectively bad.  I just means Bioware did a terrible job of presenting it and screwed up in not showing us any kind of aftermath.

A lot of people have rightfully pointed out the endings are all the same, just different colored explosions.  This is true in that basically the same cinematic plays with a different color.  But the endings are drastically different.  We just aren't shown any of the consequences.

It was a colossal screw-up on Bioware's part, because they had an ending that was going to be controversial no matter what, but tipped the balance to the nth degree of negative reaction when they failed to include any closure, no epilogue, no look back on the players choices, no explanation of what happened, and then compounded all that by having the final cutscene raise more questions than it answers.

I'm just trying to shed a little bit of positive light on it.

...all those sound like things that would make it objectively bad to me

[M.Erik.Sal]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

M.Erik.Sal wrote...
 This is stuff you can find explained fully on TVTropes for goodness sake.

sad but true. I think I've learned as much from visiting sci-fi books/shows/movies tv tropes pages as I have after like 14 years of education.

What irritates me is that the author of the articles makes himself out to be somehow "educated" in astrobiology/etc when this is stuff you can get explain to you in 50 minutes on the internet and stuff I've known for years by simply reading a lot of science fiction and reading a lot about science fiction. 

Finally, the ending is not bad because it wasn't based on real science, it's bad because it's not based on the story it supposed to end. Whoever wrote it needs to take some 100 level refresher courses on creative writing. Or you know read some blog posts from established writers on the subject of narrative structure.

[Faded-Myth]

The problem for me is that this article is essentially irrelevant because the ending is presented in such a terrible fashion that, even had any of it actually meant something, it doesn't matter. The ending is so short and shabbily presented, that it requires you to look up and figure out what it meant. The article even states at the beginning that it causes confusion to the average player.

I'm a firm believe that people need to push their intellectual and artistic barriers. It's good to be prompted to go read up on a scientific subject or be keen to learn more about something they read about or saw presented in a game. But I also believe that, on a narrative perspective, the shift in tone and plot direction didn't belong in Mass Effect. It's one thing to have a twist ending, it's another to completely alter the point of the story itself and to change things up within the last 5 minutes of the game. In a film you might get away with it, because you're an observer. But when video games are things you become actively engaged in, and people don't generally like to play a game they have no interest in. The end to the series (not for everyone but for a substantially large amount of people)  resides on that level. It's not what we played the game for. It's not what we were aiming to achieve. Which, no, wasn't a happy sunshine and bunnies ending, but one that was as equally straight forward as the rest of the series and resolved all the plotlines we'd just spent 3 games working out.

The ending scenes to a Science-Fiction trilogy that has been complex in character development but simple on story shouldn't throw in such a huge curve ball that requires you to read up on astrobiology to understand it. That's what my National Geographic and NASA subscriptions are for. Sure, I don't like dumbed down entertainment. But I don't think that screenshot of a Mario game is relevant because a clearly defined ending that resolves all our story elements does not equate to a "Thanks for playing!" screen. That's a broad generalization. In fact the article presents two extemes; complex, hard science-fiction plot elements introduced at last minute which are represented as being a good thing, and cutesey everyone smiling and happy ending. Neither of these things are what I want in this game. At least, not if it's done so half-assed and sloppily put together. I'd rather have a simpler yet more solidly written and animated ending that shows what I've accomplished. Hell, Shepard could be disintergrated and scattered to the winds for all I'd care so long as this was shown having some sort of impact beyond Joker looking stupidly over a forest canopy. That's not being "brave" or "artistic", it's a sho-horned idea that is out of place and doesn't fit cohevisely with the rest of the series.

I'll also disagree with the point about consumers "bullying". When tens of thousands of people have a similar reaction, that's not bullying. That's a common consensus about the quality of an item they purchased. An item that is not art, but contains art within it. Art that is as flawed as anything else but with the additional problem of being an entertainment product that is advertised as having specific features and expectations not imagined up by the consumer, but advertised by BioWare through marketing and previous games.

Ugh.

I appreciate you trying to help. This isn't a rage aginst you at all, so don't take it that way. But this, from the perspective of many (again, not all, I'm not speaking for everyone), isn't an issue of wanting to hate things for the sake of hating it. This isn't something we woke up one day and decided to become engaged in. It's something we've been reading about and focussing on for the past month. Deep-rooted issues with a product that are incredibly apparent don't equal simply not wanting to like something.

Oh, and Mass Effect isn't hard science-fiction. I think that article refers to it as that, when it's not. It has elements of hard science-fiction, but the ending shouldn't be justified simply because of this.

Modifié par Faded-Myth, 19 avril 2012 - 04:52 .

[sp0ck 06]

FTR GROG wrote...

I feel like op is shoving this down our throats kinda of how people depict IT of doing.

No I'm not if you bothered to read anything I've posted here I made it clear I'm not trying to prove anything or claim I magically "got" the ending.  I just wanted to attempt to facilitate a positive discussion, which apparently is nearly impossible.

[M.Erik.Sal]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I'm not disputing that.  I agree we did not see the conclusion.  That doesn't mean the ending was objectively bad.  I just means Bioware did a terrible job of presenting it and screwed up in not showing us any kind of aftermath.

Actually, that's a text book case of an objectively bad ending; one that isn't actually an ending at all.

No one (or at least I'm not) saying you can't LIKE the ending, but you cannot from a technical standpoint (narratively speaking) say it was well done. It just wasn't.


Edit: We're using the word "ending" here, but we should be talking about conclusion and resolution really.

Modifié par M.Erik.Sal, 19 avril 2012 - 04:50 .

[Vilegrim]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

AcesRedd wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

 If you hated/disliked/didn't understand/were let down by the ending, read this editorial.

http://galacticpillo...ffect-3-ending/

It really might make you look differently at not just the ending but the whole of ME3.  If you want to love the conclusion to the series but just can't, please give this a read.  It's long but worth it.  

The length of this article vs. the length of the craptacular ending reinforces the amount of fail in the ending.
I wish there was a mathematician/scientist guy that could lay out the formula for me, but I'll try my best to explain.

article + ending = more fail than article and ending put together

wait wait

article + ending < (article + ending) ?

damn I think what we need is a physicist in here? 

Instead of wasting time in endless threads about the same subjects, why not waste time reading something that's actually incredibly well thought out and could possibly make you look at the ending is a slightly positive way?  

Do you guys just WANT to hate everything Mass Effect now?

Just give it a chance.

read it doesn't help.  The ending forced you to be a mass murdering monster no matter what choice you took, like offering you a knife, gas, or a gun while forcing you to kill a baby.

[AshirahTSparkle]

MattFini wrote...

Because it wasn't necessary to "grasp" the whole of 1 or 2, and 95% of 3. And that is going to fly over the heads of the majority of people playing the game.

Yes, ME consists of some hard science fiction (crossed with more space opera-y fantasy) but when you're essentially saying you need to take classes to "understand" how we should've seen this coming it's a narrative failure.

Also, no amount of hard science can explain the farce of synthesis anyway.

This. Was an interesting read and loved the speculations from astrobiologists, but speculations are still speculations. Doesn't excuse the sloppiness of the ending.

[sp0ck 06]

M.Erik.Sal wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I'm not disputing that.  I agree we did not see the conclusion.  That doesn't mean the ending was objectively bad.  I just means Bioware did a terrible job of presenting it and screwed up in not showing us any kind of aftermath.

Actually, that's a text book case of an objectively bad ending; one that isn't actually an ending at all.

No one (or at least I'm not) saying you can't LIKE the ending, but you cannot from a technical standpoint (narratively speaking) say it was well done. It just wasn't.


Edit: We're using the word "ending" here, but we shoudl eb talking about conclusion and resolution really.

What I meant was that the ending wasn't necessarily objectively bad from a plot standpoint.   

[Carlthestrange]

Its a game. Its not supposed to be rocket science. I'll stick to my guns and hope for a better ending.

[DJBare]

At the risk of sounding curt, why do I feel I was just insulted?, if the ending has to be explained then the writer failed to express it correctly, when I finished the Witcher 2 I did not have to go on the internet to have the ending explained to me.

I applaud your effort, but that's all.

[Shaigunjoe]

M.Erik.Sal wrote...

Actually, that's a text book case of an objectively bad ending; one that isn't actually an ending at all.

No one (or at least I'm not) saying you can't LIKE the ending, but you cannot from a technical standpoint (narratively speaking) say it was well done. It just wasn't.

Actually, thats not a text book case at all.

Stating that a story's lack of conclusion makes it an objectivly bad story shows your ignorance of literature in general.  The Lady, or the TIger being the classic example.  This sort of conclusion has been used in several excellent works of fiction.  Take Shelter, several Philip K Dick works, to name a few.

[hopeisreal]

MattFini wrote...

When you have to start referencing the work/theories of astrobiologists as a means of suggesting this was ALWAYS the intended direction of the series, you have absolutely failed.

Nothing more needs to be said. 

Perfect post.

[Naugi]

I think by now most people are sick of speculation and fan based interpretations.

We can all make up what happened in our heads but that will never satisfy anyone in the way an official ending from Bioware that addresses our issues will.

[I am KROGAN]

Read the article, didnt help one iota.

People who like the ending will like the ending.
People who don't, won't.

It ain't gonna change.

[sp0ck 06]

DJBare wrote...

At the risk of sounding curt, why do I feel I was just insulted?, if the ending has to be explained then the writer failed to express it correctly, when I finished the Witcher 2 I did not have to go on the internet to have the ending explained to me.

I applaud your effort, but that's all.

I don't disagree with you.  I feel where Bioware failed wasn't in creating the ending, it was in explaining it.

I also think that although everyone feels Hudson and Walters are to blame, some of the weight has to fall on the art department.  The ending cinematic looks cool, great music, but is terrible in conveying what is actually happening.

[LucasShark]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Master Che wrote...

sp0ck 06,

No one wants to guess or theorize as to what happened at the end or afterwards. We want to know. We did not pay $50-$79 on this just to imagine an ending. We wanted to see the conclusion. This isn't a conclusion. It is speculation of a conclusion. This is not what we were promised.

I'm not disputing that.  I agree we did not see the conclusion.  That doesn't mean the ending was objectively bad.  I just means Bioware did a terrible job of presenting it and screwed up in not showing us any kind of aftermath.

A lot of people have rightfully pointed out the endings are all the same, just different colored explosions.  This is true in that basically the same cinematic plays with a different color.  But the endings are drastically different.  We just aren't shown any of the consequences.

It was a colossal screw-up on Bioware's part, because they had an ending that was going to be controversial no matter what, but tipped the balance to the nth degree of negative reaction when they failed to include any closure, no epilogue, no look back on the players choices, no explanation of what happened, and then compounded all that by having the final cutscene raise more questions than it answers.

I'm just trying to shed a little bit of positive light on it.

...all those sound like things that would make it objectively bad to me

Seconded: didn't even mention another dozen reasons.

[krayt298]

Read it. I still hate the ending.

[Skvindt]

Yeah, I found and read that article last night and was blown away. Pretty much did a 180 and love the endings now.

It's a great read. I'm really glad that Bioware's sticking to their guns and will not change the endings. I still have some complaints about the series and how it was concluded, but it's still my favorite game series and my favorite sci-fi universe and overall I'm pretty happy now with how it was all wrapped up.

Modifié par SRX, 19 avril 2012 - 04:58 .

[pro5]

Interesting how the author suggests the ending cannot really be understood without knowing several real-life astrophysical theories, but then offers the reader to suspend disbelief every time when it comes to meeting logical inconsistencies and space magic like synthesis.

Yeah, I skimmed it. Did not change my mind in the least about the endings, sorry.

[LucasShark]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

M.Erik.Sal wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I'm not disputing that.  I agree we did not see the conclusion.  That doesn't mean the ending was objectively bad.  I just means Bioware did a terrible job of presenting it and screwed up in not showing us any kind of aftermath.

Actually, that's a text book case of an objectively bad ending; one that isn't actually an ending at all.

No one (or at least I'm not) saying you can't LIKE the ending, but you cannot from a technical standpoint (narratively speaking) say it was well done. It just wasn't.


Edit: We're using the word "ending" here, but we shoudl eb talking about conclusion and resolution really.

What I meant was that the ending wasn't necessarily objectively bad from a plot standpoint.   

Yes it is: it implies that the central conflict of the ENTIRE series thus far has been a pointless red herring.  That IS a bad plot.

[ArchDuck]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

also there is no source provided for "Supposing it’ll take humanity another 1,000 years to develop AI and for humanity to be rendered obsolete" I read the linked articles around it and none referenced humanity becoming obsolete.

Some of the estimates I have heard is 10-50 years. This paper estimates AI creation capability by 2015-2024. That range appears to match even what Wikipedia has on the subject.

I did find this article saying AI will kill us all (it doesn't seem very scientific to me).

[Headcount]

Abreu Road wrote...

The symbology of the ending is nice. But it is poorly executed for Bioware standards.

Come on. It's a 150 hours, 5 years long journey to a 4 minutes CGI who changes 5% of it's assets depending on which ending you choose. You don't know a single **** of Earth's, character's and all the species in the galaxy's fate. And they clearly stated that there will be no games set after ME3. So... speculate, people!

They leave a lot of things to speculate, and the more we do this, worst are the conclusions we have. Exploding relays, destruction of all life on the galaxy, space magic, starvation, Normandy's planet, everyone trapped on Earth and Jungle Planet. For god's sake, they started to adress plot holes on twitter.

They really did a good job explaining everything storytelling-wise (Tuchanka, Rannoch, TIM's reasons), even Reapers circular logic is acceptable, but after that, they throw at us a completely new set of questions and absurdities because "Lot's of speculations for everyone!!!"

People don't get the ending? Maybe. Will some people, 20 years in the future look back and realize that ME3 ending was fantastic and way ahead of it's time? Maybe.

But Bioware also didn't get it why their fans played, invested and loved the Mass Effect universe.

http://www.nairaland...download/337549

[sp0ck 06]

SRX wrote...

Yeah, I found and read that article last night and was blown away. Pretty much did a 180 and love the endings now.

It's a great read. I'm really glad that Bioware's sticking to their guns and will not change the endings. I still have some complaints about the series and how it was concluded, but it's still my favorite game series and my favorite sci-fi universe and overall I'm pretty happy now with how it was all wrapped up.

  Glad to hear it.