149 réponses à ce sujet

[aj2070]

BattleVisor wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think people consider it a happy ending in the same way that many aren't concerned with what effect stopping the cycle has on the future: the players aren't emotionally connected to the faceless statistics on Earth, Thessia, Palaven, and so forth.

Many posters have stated that they just want to know if Shepard reunites with his/her LI, how the squad is doing and so forth. I don't think it's fair to understate their perspective of what is a happy ending simply because of the other, external consequences of the war.

This man understands.

Besides its actually not that bad. The reapers targetted Military structures and advanced research posts, they concentrated on subjugating most populations. Some colonies were left untouched, only to be later attacked.

Benning, AKA Firebase Ghost, i s perfect example.  Even the codex entries and Mass Effect Wiki indicate the reapers isloated Benning it by destroying communications relays.  Cerberus did more damage.

FYI, Benning is Arcturus Station's "bread basket".  Arcturus station was oblitterated by comparison.

Modifié par aj2070, 19 avril 2012 - 08:59 .

[TreguardD]

One of the big themes of the series is one of Free Will versus Submission (Hi, Harbinger), but Mr. Allan has a point. A million is a statistic. (I can't save eveyone.)

Where Allan's not completely right is Shepard's fate. I want to know if the other races of the galaxy can rebuild. I want to see Quarrians on Rannoch eventually able to take off their suits. I want to see Geth build a Dyson sphere. I want to see humans, Turians, and Drell in a new Interspecies space station (or a refurbished citadel, whatever).

I want to know that whatever fate is left for the galaxy is theirs to make.

[TreguardD]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Dead_Meat357 wrote...

Lots of lives are lost in ME1 and ME2, but you end with hope for a better future. The ending to ME3 is the opposite. It leaves you with a sense of total despair.

Only if you can't do math.

The math is wrong. it's been detailed in the thread.

[richard_rider]

For me the ending wasn't really happy, sad or bittersweet.

For a week, I avoided the internet so that I wouldn't spoil the ending for myself.

Hell I prepared myself through the entire playthrough that Shepard will die, but I always thought that Shepard would sacrifice himself in a grand stand, and at the end I would see my teammates/LI mourning, or taking a dog tag as a memento, something...

I remember sitting there the first time I finished the game, red explosion, lots of fire, people running screaming, Joker running Normandy like a bat out of hell (WTF moment for me, but I kept watching). Boom, crash, queue music, step out of Normandy...and then again WTF.

After that I just sat there, I actually watched the entire credits roll, thinking I missed something, then they talk about "The Shepard"  and then they tell me to buy a DLC...again WTF.

So I sat there a little longer, thinking there was something I missed, or overlooked, there had to be more. Then I paused the game, and went and had a smoke.

I just kinda stood there, trying to go over what happened in my head...no logic could explain it, why was Joker there, where did they land, WTF was he doing running away, I remember having a heart-felt talk with him before I set off. Then WTF was my LI and Javik doing there, 5 min earlier we were getting stomped by the reaper ground troops, and made our last hoorah run, then they split on me...

Then I set to the internet, thinking again that perhaps I missed something, maybe MP was the key, but all I got was more confusion, anger, hate...

So, no, the ending wasn't happy (didn't expect it), not really bittersweet, just plain bitter, and sad, just sad, sad, sad...

It  doesn't really hold any replay value anymore...why would I go through all the heartache (Mordin, Thane) all the trouble (Kai Leng - hate that guy), just to pick a different color explosion...

Modifié par richard_rider, 19 avril 2012 - 09:07 .

[PsyrenY]

TreguardD wrote...

The math is wrong. it's been detailed in the thread.

Nope, read the whole thread, and the math comes straight from the codex, plus was confirmed by Weekes at PAX.

[Allan Schumacher]

I think the number who are concerned about just the Squad or the LI are few and I think even those people are more upset with the lack of logic way the LI and Sqaud story gets tied up in the ending.

I'd be skeptical that it was a few. After I beat the game I lurked on the twitters and the boards, and on the twitter especially it was probably the most frequently occurring comment that I felt came up. I don't think it comes up as much on the BSN though.

For myself, and I didn't run any official numbers, those upset with the ending tend to fit into one (or more) generalized categories:

- Those upset with the Catalyst and how he was presented
- Those upset with the lack of closure and immediate aftermath of what happened
- Those upset that the ending ends on a decidedly less than happy note.


Just my observations anyway.

[Doxie99]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think the number who are concerned about just the Squad or the LI are few and I think even those people are more upset with the lack of logic way the LI and Sqaud story gets tied up in the ending.

I'd be skeptical that it was a few. After I beat the game I lurked on the twitters and the boards, and on the twitter especially it was probably the most frequently occurring comment that I felt came up. I don't think it comes up as much on the BSN though.

For myself, and I didn't run any official numbers, those upset with the ending tend to fit into one (or more) generalized categories:

- Those upset with the Catalyst and how he was presented
- Those upset with the lack of closure and immediate aftermath of what happened
- Those upset that the ending ends on a decidedly less than happy note.


Just my observations anyway.

I'd say that A LOT of people are in all three of those categories.

For myself the main problem was that my response after it was over was "....what?"

[Allan Schumacher]

Doxie99 wrote...

I'd say that A LOT of people are in all three of those categories.

For myself the main problem was that my response after it was over was "....what?"

That's fair.  In fact, being upset at one part will predispose someone to being more upset at other parts.  Not even of the endings but at the entire product.

A lot of threads critiquing other aspects that, in my opinion, would have been muted if people weren't already upset at the ending.

But I think it's unfair towards those that are upset that completing the game wasn't the pleasant (whether it be too unhappy, or how it didn't feel like winning, or whatever) experience they were looking for as them being just a few. I've seen enough "All that 99% of us want" posts/comments that discuss one of the three buckets I stated as the primary reason for doing something about the ending.

[TreguardD]

Go back to the thread. It's wrong.
Max speed of a *fast* ship is aprox 14 ly/day. The Milky Way is 100,000 LY in diameter. This is roughly 7,142 days, or about 20 years. That's if you go through the core. This is inefficient on the drive systems, assumes no breakdowns, no repair time. Nor stopping time to discharge the drives. It also assumes you can carry enough fuel (*and food*. Can't stop for groceries on the way.) for the journey, or have means to make it on your way; which carries it's own even worse ones.

No. The math is wrong.

But let's go back to the despair. I get three *wonderful* options.

1) I can attempt to control the Reapers. This might not even work. (And invites a whole other question on if the Reapers themselves are Sentient. I'm not going to go there)

2) I can change every living being by jumping into a beam of light (what?) without their knowledge or consent. Where's the free will in that?

3) I can commit to the destruction of the reapers, as well as a truly sentient allied race.

Right.

[Zuka999]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think the number who are concerned about just the Squad or the LI are few and I think even those people are more upset with the lack of logic way the LI and Sqaud story gets tied up in the ending.

I'd be skeptical that it was a few. After I beat the game I lurked on the twitters and the boards, and on the twitter especially it was probably the most frequently occurring comment that I felt came up. I don't think it comes up as much on the BSN though.

For myself, and I didn't run any official numbers, those upset with the ending tend to fit into one (or more) generalized categories:

- Those upset with the Catalyst and how he was presented
- Those upset with the lack of closure and immediate aftermath of what happened
- Those upset that the ending ends on a decidedly less than happy note.


Just my observations anyway.

All three of these are an issue for me. The Catalyst is actually first and foremost on my "things I hate [in the entire universe]" list.

[LeTtotheC]

I think people can live with a bittersweet ending. Just not a rushed and illogical one which throws most of Mass Effect's themes out of the window.

[pacer90]

I expected Shepard to die. But I also expected Garrus or Liara to be at a funeral, or a small gathering of the remaining squad to talk about their memories with him.

Instead, I get 2 people I care nothing about, talking about my Shepard and a decision I made a few minutes before hand that was thrown at me with no pretense or context in the series.



Why not have someone that we've been invested in for 100+ hours to talk about Shep? Or at least acknowledge what he's done?

Modifié par pacer90, 19 avril 2012 - 10:40 .

[NickelToe]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think people consider it a happy ending in the same way that many aren't concerned with what effect stopping the cycle has on the future: the players aren't emotionally connected to the faceless statistics on Earth, Thessia, Palaven, and so forth.

Many posters have stated that they just want to know if Shepard reunites with his/her LI, how the squad is doing and so forth. I don't think it's fair to understate their perspective of what is a happy ending simply because of the other, external consequences of the war.

A happy ending would be a good option and by happy I mean sticking to what Commanded Shepherd was before being lifted into StarChilds Attic.  At some point the idea of being able to refute what your enemy is telling you creates a happy ending that no matter the consequences are at least you got to refute such gibberish.

An idea would be to "Option 4" Color Purpler (why not)  -  Shepherd says somthing like...  "I refute everything you have to say, you have manipulated the destiny of the galaxy for every race that has come before.  The whole crucible is just another level of control you have designed, by planting the idea that it was prothean we jumped at it and doomed ourselves.  Keep your choices."
*      StarChild's response (my preference) - "Seeing through my deception changes nothing.  Activating the crucible"
*     Purple explosion this time, death to all the Galaxy except the Reapers, Joker bugs out for a reason this time since the galaxy has been lost to the reapers.  You lose but lose as Commander Shepherd knowing there was never a chance to win in the first place.
*       StarChild's response (Bioware style) - "You are too ignorant to understand the ramifications that have occured by your introduction of the Crucible to my core process, your races will be harvested, but this battle is over.  Activating the crucible."
*      Purple Explosion - Death to all the people directly in the Sol system.  Cycle ends, 50,000 years later is another races chance.

Happy does not equal victory or walking into the sunset for me, although having that option would not only make about every fan happy that they have the option, but it would also give Bioware a chance to keep making money on Shepherd if there ever is a desire to do so.  Ending Shepherd's story does not mean the Galaxy/cycle needs to end.  Also no matter how down and out races are, if even one man a woman are left, the Galazy will recover.

Practical death or practical life ending with some reason, 3 options currently all 3 of which are totally out of left field sits with folks wrong.

Renegade ending - Why walk into the explosion, guns have range for a reason? (take that out and it is reasonable)

Paragon - Control of the Reapers requires the destruction of the Relays they built?  I thought StarChild was their puppet master?  Why even set off the crucible at all since he can control them and now we know they are not the all bad mysterious sentients, they are just puppets regurgitating StarChilds last command, Indoctrinate and Harvest, and be intimidating about it with your voice modulator.

Synthesis - enough has been said everywhere about this, total lack of reason or any basis in science, goes against everything Mass Effect has portrayed on an obvious level since Mass Effect 1.  Synthetic DNA?  Forced homogenization of every living being in the galaxy?  How did this ever seem like a good idea either ideologically, philosophically or religiously?  Also with this ending like all others comes with destruction of Relays?  Why if all Synthetic is now both are they relays not half organic.  Its too much of a new concept to introduce unless you do it from the beginning of the story.

So to sum up, happy ending is not about sailing into the sunset for everyone.  A happy ending is watching your Hero, keep his moral or ethics, stick to his guns even when it causes his death and/or the death of the galaxy.  I for one would be much happier if Shepherd character did not drastically change his/her reasoning in the last 5 minutes. It litterally is like a whole new character.  This is probably why a lot of people hope for Indoctrination Theory to be true, otherwise Shepherd was being lead around by his/her nose in the end and could not think for him or herself.

[kalikilic]

i dont think that mass effect deserves a happy ending really. i mean, it can be ONE of the endings available, where shepard reunites with his/her crew and LI. but it should be ONE OF SEVERAL LOGICAL endings. it's more like the myth of a logical justifying end to mass effect 3. we all knew the story was going to end badly, so ending badly, while being logical, can be an option. i never expected shepard to survive. but what happened in the end was just plain wrong. it's like stacking up a house of cards, then trying to place an iphone on the top. you trash everything that you built up. the way shepard "seemed" unable to question what was being said to him, the very fact that the starchild kid shows up with 5 minutes to go, although he turns out to be the fulcrum of the end to your story, spanning 90+ hours at least 9(replacing shepard as the fulcrum). 3 basic mundane, foolishly devised options for everyone who each would've made multitudes of different decisions. absolute rubbish. it basically made my shepard look like he just chose an option and went with it cuz he wanted to die. wtf? that is not who my shepard was for 2.9 games. absolutely no narrative coherence coming to the end of such a flowing continuing story which is explained as being "artistic integrity" by Bioware: a division of EA is what makes ANY LOGICAL JUSTIFYING ending for me3 a pure foggy myth.

Modifié par kalikilic, 19 avril 2012 - 11:16 .

[Zolt51]

Vox Draco wrote...

And to add to all of this, we are forced to meet the one who claims himself responsible for all these atrocities, and listen to his horrific reasons for this biggest crime since the big-bang, and all our hero Shepard does is...nothing. All she says is...nothing...and all we, the players, can do is...nothing. Nothing but do what the kid forces upon us, and this current ending gives us nothing but more grief, sorrow and a feeling of hopelesness...

I'll just remind you that you have the option to either destroy or brainwash said kid and his pet reapers. In my book, that is not "nothing".

[Kulthar Drax]

Meh, I just want a range of different endings, such as these listed below. I'm assuming that in "control" and "destroy" options, the person carrying it out dies, so it isn't a perfectly "happy ending" whichever way you look at it. So, here is my take on the 16 different endings we should have gotten:

Crucible overloads and backfires (hideously low EMS), everyone including Reapers destroyed as seen in current ending. Mass Relays go supernova. Life reset to bacterial/amoeba levels.
Crucible overloads and backfires (very low EMS), everyone including Reapers destroyed, Mass Relays go supernova, scattered planets with existing life survive.

Reapers win, galaxy harvested, Liara's box never discovered. Cycles continue.
Reapers win, galaxy harvested, Liara's box found (Yahg?) and gives next cycle a chance.
Reapers win, galaxy harvested, Liara's box found and helps the next cycle destroy reapers and win.
Reapers win, galaxy harvested, hidden colony/space station survives and repopulates galaxy to defeat the Reapers later on with foreknowledge gained in this cycle.

Reapers controlled by TIM (persuaded to take control instead of killed), galaxy sucks for everyone except humanity as TIM gradually abuses it.
Reapers controlled by TIM (persuaded to do the right thing), drives Reapers into a star.
Reapers controlled by Anderson (if TIM dead), drives Reapers into a star.
Reapers controlled by Anderson (if TIM dead), uses them as galactic police force.
Reapers controlled by Shepard (if TIM and Anderson dead), drives them into a star.
Reapers controlled by Shepard (if TIM and Anderson dead), uses them as galactic police force.

Reapers destroyed by TIM (persuaded to do the right thing), galaxy saved.
Reapers destroyed by Anderson (if TIM dead), galaxy saved.
Reapers destroyed by Shepard (if TIM and Anderson dead), galaxy saved.

Reapers destroyed conventionally (Crucible docking with Citadel has severely weakened them), Joker, EDI and Normandy destroyed in the battle, as is Admiral Hackett's flagship, Shepard's mother (if Spacer), the Destiny Ascension, most of the Quarian and Geth fleets etc. Primarch Victus surviving war leader. Shepard and Anderson (possibly TIM if paragon persuaded) survive on the Citadel.

Modifié par Kulthar Drax, 20 avril 2012 - 02:57 .

[Rodia Driftwood]

Allan Schumacher is my favorite BioWare staff member as of now.

[Ryuukishi]

Aurvant wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think people consider it a happy ending in the same way that many aren't concerned with what effect stopping the cycle has on the future: the players aren't emotionally connected to the faceless statistics on Earth, Thessia, Palaven, and so forth.

Many posters have stated that they just want to know if Shepard reunites with his/her LI, how the squad is doing and so forth. I don't think it's fair to understate their perspective of what is a happy ending simply because of the other, external consequences of the war.

Absolutely.

We would love to know what happens to our beloved love interests and squadmates. We want to know if Garrus ever got back to Palavan or whether or not he retired one sunny beach somewhere. We want to see Tali build her house on Rannoch (and possibly see her face this time). We want to know if Liara had those little blue children. Did Javik go live like a king on a Hanar home world? Did the Krogan undergo an age of enlightenment and rebuild Tuchanka under the reforms of Urdnot Wrex? Did EDI survive the ordeals of the destroy option? Did Joker have a happy ending?

Power want to know what happened to these people, and by extension we'd like to know what happened to everything else. Even if everything was a wasteland and people had to rebuild EVERYTHING...we'd like to know.

This. Characters characters characters. That is what we care about and want to know about. Even if some of them reach unhappy ends. We want to know. It's uncool to just leave EVERYTHING hanging.

BioWare has seemed to understand that the love interests/squadmates/characters in general are what we care about and connect with in this story, so it's crazy that all of it was thrown by the wayside at the very end.

[Ieldra]

Well.....for me, a happy ending would give an outlook for the rebuilding of galactic civilization. I want closure for the characters, too, but first and foremost I want to know that, within the limits of the plausible, all is well in the galaxy. Yes, there are wrecked worlds and billions of deaths, but if there is a reasonably good prospect for the future of galactic civilization - and I mean the future of THIS civilization I set out to save, not something else in 10k years - and at least some of the characters get good outcomes as well, then that's happy enough for me.

But any ending that destroys civilization cannot be happy.

[kalikilic]

^^

of course it wont. but if i failed my pen-ultimate mission in a logical way based on the myriad of options i made, then i'd not complain, because i know it would've been my own fault; i'd actually have been sore about the fact that Bioware DID live up to their promise of your game being very choice-based and specific to your playthrough. Bioware not living up to their promises is what is making everyone unhappy.

[Deemz]

ed87 wrote...

Have you guys seen Saving Private Ryan?

Yes and I turn it off before the ending. Same with Old Yeller. I have no desire for my entertainment to be as depressing, or more, than the evening news.

[warrior256]

I think the best ending we can realistically expect is a bittersweet one. Shepard reunites with his/her LI and the rest of the squad but the galaxy is in shambles. Things can and probably will rebuild, but it will take decades before things go back to something close to normal. That's about the best ending I expected we would see.

[TMA LIVE]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think people consider it a happy ending in the same way that many aren't concerned with what effect stopping the cycle has on the future: the players aren't emotionally connected to the faceless statistics on Earth, Thessia, Palaven, and so forth.

Many posters have stated that they just want to know if Shepard reunites with his/her LI, how the squad is doing and so forth. I don't think it's fair to understate their perspective of what is a happy ending simply because of the other, external consequences of the war.

I feel like Bioware should have made a tag line:

"Want a happy ending with Shepard and your LI? Commit Genocide."

[EJ42]

I can't save everyone, but I can DARN well save Ashley, Liara, Tali, and EDI. That's exactly what I'm going to do too...

[Kilshrek]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I feel like Bioware should have made a tag line:

"Want a happy ending with Shepard and your LI? Commit Genocide."

"The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic"

That's why most players view the outcome on Earth, and the rest of the galaxy with a detached air. It's good to have saved it, but it's accomplished with the same way you feel that you've done a good job. It doesn't mean anything to the player, not in the same way the squad, the Normandy, and the LI means to Shepard, and by extension, the player.

And then the only way to even stand a chance of ever seeing the crew again as Shepard? Just kill EDI and the Geth, one you spent the whole mission trying to set up with Joker, the other, you just helped gain true sentience. One hand raises them up, the other stabs them with a big knife. I wonder when that was added to the D-bag manual.