73 réponses à ce sujet

[haroldhardluck]

Cantina wrote...
I hope there is a damn good reason behind this all because right now, staring at what little information I have does not connect.

One possible reason it does not connect is it was not originally intended to connect. I suspect DAO and DA2 were originally intended to be totally separate stories. The Warden epic ends neatly with Awakening which provides a solution to the Blight. Darkspawns will still exists and Wardens will still be needed to fight them but no further Blights are possible assuming the Architect lives and does what he plans. It is a neat ending to the Warden saga.

OTOH DA2 is clearly part 1 of a multigame story. I suspect that someone in marketing decided to connect DAO and DA2 togther with DA3 to make a trilogy because all High Fantasies have to be trilogies since LOTR came out. Add in the influence of the original Star Wars trilogy and everything has to come in "threes" as far as marketing is concerned. It aint epic unless it comes in 3 parts,

Unless the Warden is a mage (s)he has no dog in the Mage/Templar fight. However Leliana is very devout and is clearly helping the Chantry resolve the conflict. The Chantry exists separate from the Templars and the Circles. However the Warden should then be helping Leliana instead of disappearing. Hawke disappearing makes sense though.

There is one possible reason for both to disappear. If they are gone, the problem of how they would appear in DA3 is resolved. They never appear and their fates are handled off stage.

Harold

[Mad...White...Ham]

[quote]Mad...White...Ham wrote...



 The concept that the
warden’s story is over… doesn’t make much sense to me.  I’ve heard the claim that since the DarkSpawn
threat is over… the warden has nothing to do.  Not according to the DA2 ending.

“Gone… Just like the warden,” said Cassandra.

“That is no coincidence.” adds Liliana.

A main character in the franchise just established that the
warden is missing for some greater reason… not just on a whim.[/quote]
The wardens don't interfere with mage-templar-chanty conflict. 

:police:MY WARDEN IS PROBABLY NO LONGER A WARDEN WHEN HE WENT THRU PORTAL.  I THINK THE FACT THAT SINCE EVERYONE'S WARDEN VANISHED???  IT OPENS THE DOOR FOR THE WARDEN TO BE A PART OF THE NXT THREAT... EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NO LONGER BE A DARKSPAWN THREAT.

[quote]Mad...White...Ham wrote...

My Warden went through the portal to meet his
son and be with Morrigan… his story is not over.  Everyone’s warden vanishes… no one knows why…
and it’s linked to the Hawke in some manner. 
ITS NOT A COINCIDENCE.[/quote]
My Warden story is not over. His story continues inside my head, in my modding projects, story boards, gallery, still images, comics etc... But in official campaign? It's over. He lives happily with Morrigan and their son beyond the portal.

Everyone's wardens could be fighting the darkspawn at Deep Road to answer their calling. It's been more than a decade since the last blight. Perhaps it's time for them. The blight accelerated the taint effect, remember?   

:police:LET ME GUESS..... SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quote]Mad...White...Ham wrote...

[/quote]
Hawke is part of Exalted March DLC expansion. He was never confirmed in DA 3. Neither was the Warden. You already have a red, green and blue parade that make no sense with the scrap of Exalted March expansion. In fact, you already have a red, green and blue parade the moment they leaves Cassandra hanging at the end of DA 2. Isn't that one of the many reasons why people are raging in the first place after DA 2's release?
[/quote]

:police:IT BECOMES A MASS EFFECT 3 ENDING BY NOT HAVING ALL OF OUR CHOICES  ADD UP.  THEY SET UP THE WARDEN AND MORRIGAN (POOSIBLY)...   THEY SET UP HAWKE AND THE MAGE/TEMPLAR CONFLICT... DA2'S ENDING REMINDS OF THIS.................... IT'S BAD WRITING (EX: ME3'S ENDING) TO SET THINGS UP AND THEN........ NOTHING... ONE CANNOT DENY THAT THINGS AREN'T SET UP TO SOME POINT.  AND IF THE DA TEAM LEARNED ANYTHING FROM THE STEAMING DUNG HEAP ENDING OF ME3 IS THIS..... "FANS DEMAND CLOSURE...... NOT SPECUALTION.":police:

Modifié par Mad...White...Ham, 29 avril 2012 - 06:57 .

[Mad...White...Ham]

haroldhardluck wrote...

Unless the Warden is a mage (s)he has no dog in the Mage/Templar fight. However Leliana is very devout and is clearly helping the Chantry resolve the conflict. The Chantry exists separate from the Templars and the Circles. However the Warden should then be helping Leliana instead of disappearing. Hawke disappearing makes sense though.

There is one possible reason for both to disappear. If they are gone, the problem of how they would appear in DA3 is resolved. They never appear and their fates are handled off stage.

Harold

:police:I SURE HOPE NOT... NO ONE WANTS ANOTHER ME3 ENDING:police:

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Mad...White...Ham wrote...


:police:LET ME GUESS..... SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes and so are you with this:

Mad...White...Ham wrote...

MY WARDEN IS PROBABLY NO LONGER A WARDEN WHEN HE WENT THRU PORTAL.  I THINK THE FACT THAT SINCE EVERYONE'S WARDEN VANISHED???  IT OPENS THE DOOR FOR THE WARDEN TO BE A PART OF THE NXT THREAT... EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NO LONGER BE A DARKSPAWN THREAT.
MY WARDEN IS PROBABLY NO LONGER A WARDEN WHEN HE WENT THRU PORTAL.  I THINK THE FACT THAT SINCE EVERYONE'S WARDEN VANISHED???  IT OPENS THE DOOR FOR THE WARDEN TO BE A PART

You are assuming everyone's warden is probably no longer the warden.  Speculation. The thing is not everyone wants to meddle with thing they have no business with.

Mad...White...Ham wrote...

:police:IT BECOMES A MASS EFFECT 3 ENDING BY NOT HAVING ALL OF OUR CHOICES  ADD UP.  THEY SET UP THE WARDEN AND MORRIGAN (POOSIBLY)...   THEY SET UP HAWKE AND THE MAGE/TEMPLAR CONFLICT... DA2'S ENDING REMINDS OF THIS.................... IT'S BAD WRITING (EX: ME3'S ENDING) TO SET THINGS UP AND THEN........ NOTHING... ONE CANNOT DENY THAT THINGS AREN'T SET UP TO SOME POINT.  AND IF THE DA TEAM LEARNED ANYTHING FROM THE STEAMING DUNG HEAP ENDING OF ME3 IS THIS..... "FANS DEMAND CLOSURE...... NOT SPECUALTION.":police:

It is bad writing. I never think BioWare could write good story ever since Neverwinter Night. I don't play for story. I play for my role, character  and interactive companion. But that beside the point.

Fan demand closure, I agree. But you are already too late for that. It's time for DA 3, a new protagonist and a new story. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 29 avril 2012 - 10:07 .

[BIO18]

I'm not sure, but in the legacy DLC Hawk ends all the callings no ? So the warden won't hear the calling, thus not die.

[nightscrawl]

BIO18 wrote...

I'm not sure, but in the legacy DLC Hawk ends all the callings no ? So the warden won't hear the calling, thus not die.

No, sorry.

There is a distinction to be made between The Calling, when a Grey Warden begins to hear the call of the Old Gods, and the calling of Corypheus due to his proximity and personal power.

The Wardens in the fortress, including Anders if you bring him along, as well as the carta dwarves that are becoming ghouls, are hearing the "call" of Corypheus because he is very close in the prison itself and because he is very powerful, even while dorment. When he dies, Larius and Anders no longer hear his calling. (Not getting into Larius speculation in this thread.)

All other Wardens (Bethany/Carver, Alistair, your Warden, Anders**, Nathaniel Howe, etc) wherever they may be, will eventually succumb to the taint, hear the call of the Old Gods (there are two left), and slowly deteriorate into ghouls. The death of Corypheus had nothing to do with the taint that all Wardens have throughout Thedas.



** Because I know someone will mention it, David did address this in an interview...

TUK: Can I ask, what effect if any Anders being merged with Justice is going to have on his Calling?

DG: Uh...interesting. I'm getting some...okay, it's gone now, I was hearing a mental voice there, it was weird. [laughter] There were some plans to address that but in the end it became very complicated. I think there are a couple possibilities. One is that the spirit within Anders can affect the level of his corruption, so it may delay or remove the necessity for his Calling altogether. Either that or at some point the corruption within Anders is going to corrupt the spirit. I think those are the two most likely outcomes. I'm not going to say which of those we prefer, because Anders can survive DA2 so therefore there's a possibility that we may need him in the future.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 29 avril 2012 - 01:19 .

[Mad...White...Ham]

@sacred fantasy

of course I'm speculating.... we are all speculating about DA3 and possible characters that can be in DA3. I'm saying its a BIG MISTAKE if DA goes the same route at ME3's ending if they go with SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

All that did was upset the ME3 fanbase....... hopefully they don't repeat that mistake... And I think the best way to not have Speculation.... bring back the warden and hawke.

[haroldhardluck]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
It is bad writing. I never think BioWare could write good story ever since Neverwinter Night. I don't play for story. I play for my role, character  and interactive companion. But that beside the point.

Fan demand closure, I agree. But you are already too late for that. It's time for DA 3, a new protagonist and a new story. 

Without a good story, all you have is a dungeon crawl and no interaction with the companions. Several of the Neverwinter 2 games by Bioware such as the Sword Coast games are like that.

Bioware's best games where ones where there was a story and a reason for your character to interact with your companions. It is your companion's backstory that gave them their personalities. What would Minsc be without his head injury? What would Imoen be without her bloodline?

Bioware still writes good stories. Where they have fallen down in recent games are the endings. The ending of Neverwinter 2 where a tunnel collapses and buries your enture party beyond recovery was a step down the slippery slope that led to the ME3 ending. It is almost as if Bioware, having created the perfect finale for Baldur's Gate, decided to write the worst possible endings for all their series from then on. (Only a half )

Harold

[Androme]

haroldhardluck wrote...

The Warden and Hawke do not have to actually return even in a cameo for me. But their fates have to be resolved. Although a cameo would be best. Both the Warden and Hawke have image files associated with them. In addition both also have voices associated with them. The Warden is NOT silent. You select a voice at creation and it is used in the game. A graphics conversion routine for the character graphics can be used for DA3 so it is possible for both characters to appear as NPCs in the game.

The fate of the Warden was left open ended in DAO so sequels such as Awakening could be done. And that would have been fine even if there are no more sequels. But in DA2, he disappears along with Hawke. All this implies that DA3 will attempt to handle a larger story arc involving both and most likely resolves the break up of the Circles outside of Tevinter. The DA games look more and more like a trilogy that grew out of the story line in DA2. Hopefully Bioware has learned a lesson about how to end story arcs properly.

Harold

Good post, especially the beginning, although I'd love to see my Warden and .. oh well, Hawke aswell, I think just resolving their fates would be sufficient.

[Mad...White...Ham]

does anyone think Hawke's story is over??? DA2 felt like entire origin sequence

[Sacred_Fantasy]

haroldhardluck wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
It is bad writing. I never think BioWare could write good story ever since Neverwinter Night. I don't play for story. I play for my role, character  and interactive companion. But that beside the point.

Fan demand closure, I agree. But you are already too late for that. It's time for DA 3, a new protagonist and a new story. 

Without a good story, all you have is a dungeon crawl and no interaction with the companions. Several of the Neverwinter 2 games by Bioware such as the Sword Coast games are like that.

I can live with that. I've been playing TES since TES: ARENA. 

haroldhardluck wrote...

Bioware's best games where ones where there was a story and a reason for your character to interact with your companions. It is your companion's backstory that gave them their personalities. What would Minsc be without his head injury? What would Imoen be without her bloodline?

I agree. I learn such value through Morrigan in DAO. And I thought things would change. It didn't. The way DA2 story was presented made me believe yet again, BioWare doesn't know how to write satisfying story for me.

haroldhardluck wrote...

Bioware still writes good stories. Where they have fallen down in recent games are the endings. The ending of Neverwinter 2 where a tunnel collapses and buries your enture party beyond recovery was a step down the slippery slope that led to the ME3 ending. It is almost as if Bioware, having created the perfect finale for Baldur's Gate, decided to write the worst possible endings for all their series from then on. (Only a half )

Harold

It started with Lady Aribeth in Neverwinter Night. They left her with more question than ever in Hordes of Underdark. Then Shadra Jarro in Neverwinter Nights 2. Although I could accepted Shandra's fate. I could not accepted the ending. I was looking for Neverwinter Night 3 and ATARI for answer. And I still do. That's when I found out DAO. Somehow they pull it right with Morrigan in DAO and Ultimate Sacrifice plot, Making me love the value of companionship and the story. Mass Effect 2 had good choices and consequences for roleplaywise. But Shepard as PC was bad model binary character. Playing neutral Shepard didn't bring any meaningful benefit. So I stop following ME series. And I think I made a right decision. Else, I would be raging for years at ME 3 forum.  

DA 2 and ME 3 ending just reinforce my belief that I shouldn't expect much from BioWare when it comes to story. They just can't do it right. If they still continues this trend, then DA 3 will be my last game.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 29 avril 2012 - 05:09 .

[Cantina]

Mad...White...Ham wrote...

does anyone think Hawke's story is over??? DA2 felt like entire origin sequence

Truthfully, in my opinion, I felt at the end of Dragon Age 2, it was the beginning of Hawke’s story not the end. I personally would love to play Hawke and have whomever he/she romanced as a companion in Dragon Age 3 with new companions. Then for Dragon Age 4 (if it happens) come out with a new protagonist.

Considering the choices I made in Origins and the DLCS, I see my Warden’s story as complete. However, no matter what choices I chose to make in Dragon Age 2, it ends the same. Now if the developers came out with more DLCS like they did with Origins, we may have had closure on Hawke’s story and having them in Dragon Age 3 would be pointless unless for a cameo. I just hope I do not have to read about what happened to my Hawke in a codex-ugh.

But, its already been said a new protagonist is coming for Dragon Age 3 and a rumor suggest the new one will be a Seeker-believe me I don't like both parts, especially the Seeker part, if it turns out to be true.

Yes, the world the Thedas is not based on just a single character; however, I felt Dragon Age 2 was like a movie, too big to fit everything in one game, so they split it in two parts.

Hawke disappearing makes sense, the Warden, not so much, unless you went through the mirror with Morrigan or died.

[Mike 9987]

My warden died.

[BIO18]

Mike 9987 wrote...

My warden died.

What a shame...

[donmike84]

my idea for dragon age 3 is you either hunt down hawke or the warden with a new pc they will both make a apperance maybe cassandra pentaghast is the new hero and is on the hunt for either hawke or the warden

[haroldhardluck]

Cantina wrote...

Mad...White...Ham wrote...
does anyone think Hawke's story is over??? DA2 felt like entire origin sequence

Truthfully, in my opinion, I felt at the end of Dragon Age 2, it was the beginning of Hawke’s story not the end.

Hawke's story is ended IMHO but his fate is unresolved. The narrative of DA2 was surviving the destruction of Lothering and building a new life in Kirkwall. But in the end, his mother is murdered. The sibling either dies in the Deep Road, is made a Warden or joins the Circle/Templars. In all these cases, (s)he is gone one way or another. This leaves Hawke with no family and only the romance which is optional. Then Hawke is instrumental in the mage revolt. No matter what side Hawke takes, the mages revolt and the rebellion spreads to all the Circles. So the Seekers are after him trying to find out what happened in Kirkwall. Hawke is clearly on the run.

For me the best resolution is Hawke sails off into the sunset on Isabella's ship with his love, who could be either Isabella or Merrill or Fenris. If the love is Anders, he would most likely leave Hawke to join the mages in their revolt so it would be Isabella and Hawke. A "Son" of Hawke game would be a nice sequel though. Maybe as a DLC.

Harold

[haroldhardluck]

Mike 9987 wrote...
My warden died.

Did you use this ending for DA2? And if so, what comments do Leliana and Cassandra make about the Warden in the end? In all the Warden lives endings, they say he also disappeared. Do they refer to the new replacement Orlesian Warden instead?

Harold

[Cantina]

haroldhardluck wrote...

Cantina wrote...

Mad...White...Ham wrote...
does anyone think Hawke's story is over??? DA2 felt like entire origin sequence

Truthfully, in my opinion, I felt at the end of Dragon Age 2, it was the beginning of Hawke’s story not the end.

Hawke's story is ended IMHO but his fate is unresolved. The narrative of DA2 was surviving the destruction of Lothering and building a new life in Kirkwall. But in the end, his mother is murdered. The sibling either dies in the Deep Road, is made a Warden or joins the Circle/Templars. In all these cases, (s)he is gone one way or another. This leaves Hawke with no family and only the romance which is optional. Then Hawke is instrumental in the mage revolt. No matter what side Hawke takes, the mages revolt and the rebellion spreads to all the Circles. So the Seekers are after him trying to find out what happened in Kirkwall. Hawke is clearly on the run.

For me the best resolution is Hawke sails off into the sunset on Isabella's ship with his love, who could be either Isabella or Merrill or Fenris. If the love is Anders, he would most likely leave Hawke to join the mages in their revolt so it would be Isabella and Hawke. A "Son" of Hawke game would be a nice sequel though. Maybe as a DLC.

Harold

Well obviously, Hawke is on the run, I doubt they stay behind and hand out snacks to the Seekers that show up on his/her doorstep. You can have a story be told but lead to an ending where it feels this is the start of it, the game did end on a cliffhanger.

Uh and considering I always runaway with Anders at the end, I highly doubt Anders would leave my Hawke,especially after all that happened. Moreover, I would not be happy to find out my Hawke somehow got with Isabella. Having that concept forced on someone when the players had different romance opportunities in the game is, well idiotic. No offense hun, but I am glad you are not one of the writers for Dragon Age.

[Mad...White...Ham]

another thing that is worth bringing up it Flemeth... her story is not done... Both Warden and Hawke are tied to her... Flemeth will have a major role to play in Dragon age

[haroldhardluck]

Cantina wrote...
Uh and considering I always runaway with Anders at the end, I highly doubt Anders would leave my Hawke,especially after all that happened. Moreover, I would not be happy to find out my Hawke somehow got with Isabella. Having that concept forced on someone when the players had different romance opportunities in the game is, well idiotic. No offense hun, but I am glad you are not one of the writers for Dragon Age.

Anders is too much of a fanatic in my judgment. Forced to chose between love and his Cause, Anders is the type of man who will always chose the Cause and leave his love. Any lover who believes otherwise is too blinded by love.

As for Isabella, if you support her in Act 2 and help her get her ship in Act 3, she will be a loyal friend for life. No love affair is needed. She even makes an offer to include Hawke and any lover (s)he might have as members of her crew in Act 3. She will happily provide passage to Hawke to flee Kirkwall.

Harold

[Cantina]

haroldhardluck wrote...

Cantina wrote...
Uh and considering I always runaway with Anders at the end, I highly doubt Anders would leave my Hawke,especially after all that happened. Moreover, I would not be happy to find out my Hawke somehow got with Isabella. Having that concept forced on someone when the players had different romance opportunities in the game is, well idiotic. No offense hun, but I am glad you are not one of the writers for Dragon Age.

Anders is too much of a fanatic in my judgment. Forced to chose between love and his Cause, Anders is the type of man who will always chose the Cause and leave his love. Any lover who believes otherwise is too blinded by love.

Well I don't agree with any of that from all sides. I think people need to look past what Anders is on the surface. But this is not the place for this conversation.

Gotta love open-minded people <shakes head> <_<

[elfdwarf]

more evil lies ahead then blight or templar and mage war

[Zanallen]

Personally, I don't need to see the Warden, Hawke or any of the companions ever again. I prefer new people, or perhaps previous characters that we really didn't get to learn a lot about.

[jsadalia]

We should find how their stories ended, but that doesn't necessarily mean any screen time. I'd be happy to see something of the companions, but this should probably only be cameos. I'd like a new protagonist (really, I'd like the choice of several different protagonists, a la Origins) and new companions.

And I'd like the dead to stay dead this time, please.

[Eternal Phoenix]

BIO18 wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

My warden died.

What a shame...

He was a good man....