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[Asch Lavigne]

If DA3 is about the Mage/Templar war then it makes no sense for the Warden to get involved.

[Cantina]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

If DA3 is about the Mage/Templar war then it makes no sense for the Warden to get involved.

Exactly. Which is why I am utterly confuzzled by why the Warden is important.

This even adds to more confusion when Cassandra says "The involvement of the Wardens makes perfect sense." I still don't get this line.

I just find it hard to comprehend the Wardens getting involved with such a situation and even IF there was a chance they could, I doubt they would. They were once exiled from Ferelden for a rebellion. So what? Now there going to sacrifice being allowed back into Feredlan to get involved with a conflict they have no reason to get involved with?

I just don't get it....not at all.

[Cantina]

Begemotka wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

If DA3 is about the Mage/Templar war then it makes no sense for the Warden to get involved.

I have an inkling the Mage / Templar War will be only one of the problems in The Next Thing ™.
Sure,The Next Thing ™ has not even been officially announced yet,but snippets of info thrown around by the devs suggest the act of "saving the world from itself" might mean much more than a Blight or a M /T war.:happy:

Well...now that you mentioned it, there is that issue with Alistair and Orlias. But it stills seems strange to get the Warden involved much less the Divine intervening. Seems like the Mage/Templar war would be a much bigger issue for the Divine then some political mess of who should be ruling.

Modifié par Cantina, 01 mai 2012 - 05:36 .

[haroldhardluck]

Cantina wrote...

Well...now that you mentioned it, there is that issue with Alistair and Orlias. But it stills seems strange to get the Warden involved much less the Divine intervening. Seems like the Mage/Templar war would be a much bigger issue for the Divine then some political mess of who should be ruling.

Whoever ends up ruling Ferelden in DAO appeats to be solidly in charge. Relations between Ferelden and Orlais have always been tense, so any problems is just buisness as usual. The novel Asunder ends with an Orlasian civil war.

As the Chantry established the Circles originally, the break up of the Circle is a direct challenge to its authority and takes precedence over any squabbles between states that normally are squabbling. The Orlaisian civil war is a direct threat to the Chantry as the Divine lives in Orlais. All this implies that DA3 has to address the Mage/Templar struggle and very likely the Orlaisian civil war as well.

However none of this requires the Warden to disappear. It is certainly not his fight unless the Warden is a mage or has Leliana as a lover. So yeah, Bioware had better come up with a really good explanation.

Harold

[HurricaneGinger]

The Warden is the Hero of Ferelden, his or her voice may carry some weight in almost any situation - I'd think, at least. I don't think a simple "persuade" option will turn the tide, but they are to be respected since they are a legend.

nightscrawl wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

My problem is why they had a Darkspawn threat in one game, and a mage rebellion in the other. It doesn't make much sense, it's disjointed. (DA:O did hint at mage conflicts of course, but I don't think any of us expected DA2 to be all about it. Maybe it's only fitting because the Warden "fixed" nearly everything.) I loved both games, don't get me wrong, but going back and playing them leaves me confused.

The first game had the imminent threat of the Blight and took place over the course of a year (or thereabouts) as you gathered your armies and dealt with the threat of Ferelden civil war before finally defeating the Archdemon.

DA2, taking place over the course of seven years (of your actual play time) shows the mage/templar tensions slowly simmering until they finally boil over. While I felt that the time jumps were awkward for relationship and character building, they were an interesting way to have the story told over a period of several years, in order to show change over time. That is what really separates DAO from DA2 to me.

Are you confused because you don't understand something, or is it just a general feeling because of their decision to go from darkspawn (which seem like the main villain of the DA universe) into the mage/templar conflict in the very next game? If it's the latter, I think they tried to mitigate some of that by having Hawke start off as fleeing from the darkspawn -- from a town that our Warden actually went to -- in order to make that connection, then forcibly separate us from the previous game by going forward a year to when the Blight is over.

I think it's the general feeling of going from darkspawn to mage vs templar. And I do get BioWare made that connection, it's just my opinion of late that they may have taken too big a step in another direction. Don't get me wrong, the mage/templar thing is very interesting to me; I love both games just as I love Mass Effect 3, but I have problems with certain things.

Maybe I just have to play it all again to reasses a few opinions. Maybe the mage/templar conflict will be a minor thing compared to a much larger threat on the horizon in DA3 and it's Hawke's job to halt that while the Warden possibly hinders the looming threat; and then it is the new protagonist's job to tie it all together?

[Cantina]

haroldhardluck wrote...

Cantina wrote...

Well...now that you mentioned it, there is that issue with Alistair and Orlias. But it stills seems strange to get the Warden involved much less the Divine intervening. Seems like the Mage/Templar war would be a much bigger issue for the Divine then some political mess of who should be ruling.

Whoever ends up ruling Ferelden in DAO appeats to be solidly in charge. Relations between Ferelden and Orlais have always been tense, so any problems is just buisness as usual. The novel Asunder ends with an Orlasian civil war.

As the Chantry established the Circles originally, the break up of the Circle is a direct challenge to its authority and takes precedence over any squabbles between states that normally are squabbling. The Orlaisian civil war is a direct threat to the Chantry as the Divine lives in Orlais. All this implies that DA3 has to address the Mage/Templar struggle and very likely the Orlaisian civil war as well.

However none of this requires the Warden to disappear. It is certainly not his fight unless the Warden is a mage or has Leliana as a lover. So yeah, Bioware had better come up with a really good explanation.

Harold

Blasted Chantry <shakes head>

Well, now I suppose its the waiting game for answers. I feel like I'm six years old again on X-Mas Eve, wanting to know what Santa Clause brings me. Although, I did get coal a lot. Oh man that probably was a bad analogy to use. Ugh!

[Asch Lavigne]

Cantina wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

If DA3 is about the Mage/Templar war then it makes no sense for the Warden to get involved.

Exactly. Which is why I am utterly confuzzled by why the Warden is important.

This even adds to more confusion when Cassandra says "The involvement of the Wardens makes perfect sense." I still don't get this line.

I just find it hard to comprehend the Wardens getting involved with such a situation and even IF there was a chance they could, I doubt they would. They were once exiled from Ferelden for a rebellion. So what? Now there going to sacrifice being allowed back into Feredlan to get involved with a conflict they have no reason to get involved with?

I just don't get it....not at all.

Cassandra is the worst Seeker ever. Everything Varric mentioned she was like "Aha! That's it!" No, Cassandra, no it isn't.

Honestly, I dont even see Hawke having much of an effect on the war. He/she was involved in starting it but that's about it. I don't see why Varric was saying Cassandra needed him/her to keep the world from going to war. Seems to me she just needed to know how it all went down.

The only way the Warden and Hawke should come up is in regards to their dissapearance (which I blame on Flemeth) I can not see how that has anything to do with the war. Maybe people would listen to Hawke, but the Hero of Ferelden. If it were me I'd tell him/her to go mind their own business and go back to killing darkpawn.

I get that people are attatched to their Wardem but all the "Warden as the MC for DA3!" "Warden needs to be in DA3!" posts need to stop. It's not happening and it would make no sense for it to happen. Closure is one thing and I agree we need it, but other than that nothing is necessary.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 01 mai 2012 - 07:51 .

[Mad...White...Ham]

Who says anything about the Warden still being a member of his order anymore?????????? if he goes thru the portal with Morrigan... he has left the order voluntarily... or he vanishes all together hopefully because it has something to do with Flemeth... and he/she may not be involved with the wardens anymore. None of the origins have the warden pursuing the order... each origin has the warden dragged into the order... The warden's motives to leave (vanish) are countless.

it is bad writing if they set up Hawke the way they did and only to have DA2's ending with Hawke disappearing. I understand exalted march was cancelled... however... HAWKE'S STORY IS NOT RESOLVED... IF ANYTHING IT IS JUST BEGINNING.

Then the warden vanishing needs to be explained... or in my opinion its all JUST SPECULATION... and we all know how that ending turned out.

[slashthedragon]

Cantina wrote...


Truthfully, I am confused about the Warden. I really do not see how they can be an important part of the Mage/Templar War and I do not understand why he/she just disappears. According to lore The Wardens are suppose to be neutral. The Wardens were exiled years ago for getting involved with matters outside of their order, why would the Seekers and the Divine think they would do so again.

My first play through, I assumed when Cassandra said, “Gone just like the Warden” she talking about Anders, which to me made sense, but found out later she was talking about the Warden. I just have a hard time picturing my Warden just disappearing, leaving not only her husband Alistair behind but her duties as well.

I hope there is a damn good reason behind this all because right now, staring at what little information I have does not connect.

I think they are just hiding in the next room and Cassandra sucks at her job.
Or--alien abduction.

[slashthedragon]

haroldhardluck wrote...


Anders is too much of a fanatic in my judgment. Forced to chose between love and his Cause, Anders is the type of man who will always chose the Cause and leave his love. Any lover who believes otherwise is too blinded by love.

OMG imagine if they bring Anders back in 3 and he doesn't mention/isn't with Hawke even if there was a romance in 2.
Heads will ROLL.

[haroldhardluck]

slashthedragon wrote...
OMG imagine if they bring Anders back in 3 and he doesn't mention/isn't with Hawke even if there was a romance in 2.
Heads will ROLL.

As there is a final save file, there is undoubtedly import information about Ander's fate recorded in it. These means he can only be in DA3 if he lives. You can import saves from DAO where the Warden is dead and where Alistair is not the king. So Bioware has worked out the technology of handling multiple canonical endings from previous games. What they have not yet perfected, based on the ME3 endings, is how to incorporate all those options in a good finale.

Harold

[Cantina]

slashthedragon wrote...

haroldhardluck wrote...


Anders is too much of a fanatic in my judgment. Forced to chose between love and his Cause, Anders is the type of man who will always chose the Cause and leave his love. Any lover who believes otherwise is too blinded by love.

OMG imagine if they bring Anders back in 3 and he doesn't mention/isn't with Hawke even if there was a romance in 2.
Heads will ROLL.

Uh...yes....yes they will..........

[slashthedragon]

haroldhardluck wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...
OMG imagine if they bring Anders back in 3 and he doesn't mention/isn't with Hawke even if there was a romance in 2.
Heads will ROLL.

As there is a final save file, there is undoubtedly import information about Ander's fate recorded in it. These means he can only be in DA3 if he lives. You can import saves from DAO where the Warden is dead and where Alistair is not the king. So Bioware has worked out the technology of handling multiple canonical endings from previous games. What they have not yet perfected, based on the ME3 endings, is how to incorporate all those options in a good finale.

Harold

I meant more along the lines of them bringing in an Anders (that you let live and romanced) into 3 without Hawke being by his side or Anders mentioning Hawke.  Also awful would be if you killed Anders in 2 or let him walk and he comes back as Justice (ie Anders is dead and Justice is using his body).
I really don't want ANY cameos unless it's a 'hi and bye'.  I have my own personal head cannon as to what happened after 2's end game, and if they do something like have Fenris and Isabela show up as a married couple, I'll just *facepalm*.

[Vicious]

How about we just call it Fan Service Age 3 and get it over with? Enough with the cameos, it makes a supposedly huge world really tiny.

Modifié par Vicious, 03 mai 2012 - 12:29 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Cantina wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

haroldhardluck wrote...


Anders is too much of a fanatic in my judgment. Forced to chose between love and his Cause, Anders is the type of man who will always chose the Cause and leave his love. Any lover who believes otherwise is too blinded by love.

OMG imagine if they bring Anders back in 3 and he doesn't mention/isn't with Hawke even if there was a romance in 2.
Heads will ROLL.

Uh...yes....yes they will..........

They already did it with Leliana. So it's not surprising if they did it again with Anders in DA 3. Hopefully it wouldn't mess up with my import save. It's would be difficult to explain why he returns again after died twice. 

BioWare, make sure import flag trigger approriately, please .

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 03 mai 2012 - 12:52 .

[atum]

One quick note about the logistics if importing character faces. This is not a feature limited to one game. They can and do use features across many games. There is probably some challenge with different engines but the product is reusable still.

[Agent_Dark_]

I would really like to see Hawke return as an NPC in DA3. Perhaps even as a temporary party member for a quest. Surely they could import face codes, and its easy enough to get the voice actors back. They can match Hawke's personality to your choice through DA2 (ie Diplomatic, Troll or Intimidating). I found I grew really attached to my Hawke, probably even more so than my Warden, so I'd really like to see an appearance from Hawke.  Also, bring back Isabela because yes.

As for the Warden, well that's slightly more difficult. Because of the lack of a Voice Actor, making him/her into an NPC would be a little hard if you can't actually talk to them. Even more so if your Warden ended up as the King of Fereldan. I think the best way to include the Warden would be just to make codex and conversation references. Perhaps a statue of your Warden wearing whatever armour/weapons you had at the end of Origins.

Modifié par Agent_Dark_, 06 mai 2012 - 11:15 .

[deathadder99]

Warden PC and Hawke companion (with dialogue based on your personality in DA2), would be badass!!!! I refuse to have my warden voiced, (would save on production time too!). REMOVE THE DIALOGUE WHEEL. And goddamn it, let me play my dorf again. .

Hawke JUST about worked, but you can't just introduce a new main character, that's pushing it. I was struggling to connect with my Hawke anyway.

[WardenWade]

Mad...White...Ham wrote...

Who says anything about the Warden still being a member of his order anymore?????????? if he goes thru the portal with Morrigan... he has left the order voluntarily... or he vanishes all together hopefully because it has something to do with Flemeth... and he/she may not be involved with the wardens anymore. None of the origins have the warden pursuing the order... each origin has the warden dragged into the order... The warden's motives to leave (vanish) are countless.

it is bad writing if they set up Hawke the way they did and only to have DA2's ending with Hawke disappearing. I understand exalted march was cancelled... however... HAWKE'S STORY IS NOT RESOLVED... IF ANYTHING IT IS JUST BEGINNING.

Then the warden vanishing needs to be explained... or in my opinion its all JUST SPECULATION... and we all know how that ending turned out.

I agree.  It seems like there is a great deal of possibility for more story here, and in many ways.  IMO the Warden's story is far from over (whether the HoF or the Orlesian Warden)...less than ever, perhaps, with the revelations at the end of DA2, and in the Legacy DLC in particular.

Modifié par WardenWade, 07 mai 2012 - 12:12 .

[rapscallioness]

devSin wrote...

I seem to remember the Warden dying on me, so he obviously can't be that important in the future.

Mike would be my hero for all time if he would let me play Hawke again. But he won't.

I don't ever want to see Hawke as a companion. That would just be wrong.

^This.

[Mr. 007]

Even though I'm pretty sure Hawke has some role in DA3 I want my Warden to definitely be in DA3 in some manner. Come on the Warden has to have some major influence after causing the fifth Blight to be the shortest one in history while she was just a recruit AND jumping rank from recruit to Commander of The Grey in six months. I will not be happy if they leave it with 'Warden and Hawke mysteriously vanished, the end' That's kinda like creating an awsome character and just throwing them away as though their some sort of forgetful filler arc in an anime.

[FASherman]

I'd start DA3 with news of both their demises and press on from there.

Hawke, recalling his conversation with King/Queen of Fereldon, returned to fight an evil witch, Morrigan. They were both killed. The Warden responded by hunting her down and killing her, but was gravely wounded in the process. He was rescued by Zefran who was looking after him as he healed.

The Crows finally hunted Zefran down and exacted their revenge. The warden joined the fight, but in his weakened condition, her too fell.

That was 10 years ago. Thus begins DA3.