145 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Mesina2 wrote...

I dunno, maybe because THEY ARE THE 2ND RACE THAT DISCOVERED CITADEL AND FOUNDED COUNCIL WITH ASARI!

And that might be relevant 2000 years ago.  But why are people going to keep listening to them when the Quarians could roll over them in moments?  Why care about them when their ability to contribute to a galactic war is less than the few battered and ill equipped remnants of the Krogan?

An international system needs to have some relevance to reality.  Otherwise we'd give the Byzantine Empire a seat on the security council

[Siansonea]

It cracks me up that people are equating Council status with effectiveness against the Reapers. When the Council was founded, the Reapers weren't even a whisper of a myth. And nowhere in their mission statement was "help Shepard stop the Reapers", since it was founded BY the salarians and asari over two millennia ago. So, thread fail.

[Jestina]

Quarian's don't have a home world for one thing. They created a synthetic race, made those synthetics mad, and then got their asses kicked. After that everyone just saw Quarians as vagrants.

[Unholyknight800]

Wulfram wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

I dunno, maybe because THEY ARE THE 2ND RACE THAT DISCOVERED CITADEL AND FOUNDED COUNCIL WITH ASARI!

And that might be relevant 2000 years ago.  But why are people going to keep listening to them when the Quarians could roll over them in moments?  Why care about them when their ability to contribute to a galactic war is less than the few battered and ill equipped remnants of the Krogan?

An international system needs to have some relevance to reality.  Otherwise we'd give the Byzantine Empire a seat on the security council

I don't know. It seems like Galatic politics very stable and unchanging. At least until Humanity came along. Status Quo got changed that day.

[General User]

Wulfram wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

I dunno, maybe because THEY ARE THE 2ND RACE THAT DISCOVERED CITADEL AND FOUNDED COUNCIL WITH ASARI!

And that might be relevant 2000 years ago.  But why are people going to keep listening to them when the Quarians could roll over them in moments?  Why care about them when their ability to contribute to a galactic war is less than the few battered and ill equipped remnants of the Krogan?

An international system needs to have some relevance to reality.  Otherwise we'd give the Byzantine Empire a seat on the security council

What makes you think that the salarians weren't just holding back the lionshare of their forces for their own use?

Modifié par General User, 19 avril 2012 - 05:53 .

[Siansonea]

Wulfram wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

I dunno, maybe because THEY ARE THE 2ND RACE THAT DISCOVERED CITADEL AND FOUNDED COUNCIL WITH ASARI!

And that might be relevant 2000 years ago.  But why are people going to keep listening to them when the Quarians could roll over them in moments?  Why care about them when their ability to contribute to a galactic war is less than the few battered and ill equipped remnants of the Krogan?

An international system needs to have some relevance to reality.  Otherwise we'd give the Byzantine Empire a seat on the security council

So, what does effectiveness against the Reapers have to do with the Council? Your argument would be akin to the contemporary Byzantine Empire membership status being contingent on effectiveness in the current wars in the Middle East. The asari and turians aren't going to revoke Council status from the salarians because Shepard's onboard computer says they're weak sauce in the fight against the Reapers. How thick can you be?

Modifié par Siansonea II, 19 avril 2012 - 05:49 .

[EricHVela]

Wulfram wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

I dunno, maybe because THEY ARE THE 2ND RACE THAT DISCOVERED CITADEL AND FOUNDED COUNCIL WITH ASARI!

And that might be relevant 2000 years ago.  But why are people going to keep listening to them when the Quarians could roll over them in moments?  Why care about them when their ability to contribute to a galactic war is less than the few battered and ill equipped remnants of the Krogan?

An international system needs to have some relevance to reality.  Otherwise we'd give the Byzantine Empire a seat on the security council

So... either of the two initial races that formed the council would be voted off for what reason again? I've yet to see a valid excuse for that.

[humes spork]

Wulfram wrote...

Yep, stealth strikes and commandoes.  What can they do against the reapers?

Reapers have no chains of command or supply lines, don't rely upon formations, and are not impacted at all by psychological warfare.

[Wulfram]

General User wrote...
What makes you think that the salarians weren't just holding back the lionshare of their forces for their own use?

Because the dialogue you get doesn't indicate that, particularly not when you've cured the genophage.  It's all "wow, you got the Salarians full support, how did you manage that?".

If they were sitting to the side while the rest of the galaxy burned, wouldn't someone comment on that?

[CroGamer002]

Wulfram wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

I dunno, maybe because THEY ARE THE 2ND RACE THAT DISCOVERED CITADEL AND FOUNDED COUNCIL WITH ASARI!

And that might be relevant 2000 years ago.  But why are people going to keep listening to them when the Quarians could roll over them in moments?  Why care about them when their ability to contribute to a galactic war is less than the few battered and ill equipped remnants of the Krogan?

An international system needs to have some relevance to reality.  Otherwise we'd give the Byzantine Empire a seat on the security council

Well Asari did jacksh*t as well until Udina's coup.

And sabotaging that cure isn't exactly a public knowledge.
Hell, only very few people know about that sabotage.

And considering that most of Salarian space was untouched by Reaper war, Salarians are now the strongest species in the galaxy.

Who would dare to remove them from Council position?


Oh right, you forgot that Salarians are one of the top 3 most powerful species in galaxy.

And seriously, they did lot more then Asari.
Why not kick them out too?

[General User]

Wulfram wrote...
Because the dialogue you get doesn't indicate that, particularly not when you've cured the genophage.  It's all "wow, you got the Salarians full support, how did you manage that?".

"Full support" could just as easily be taken to mean the forces they were willing to lend, rather than the total of what they had.

Wulfram wrote...
If they were sitting to the side while the rest of the galaxy burned, wouldn't someone comment on that?

Yes.

[Wulfram]

I should clarify, since I think I've muddled my point here.

In general, the Salarians status as a Council power does make sense. They're presented as a major military power, if perhaps slightly below the other two old council races, and they make up for this by having exceptional scientific ability, and their skill at intelligence.

My problem is that this is not reflected at all in their War Assets, which are pitiful. Which takes away from one of the biggest choices in the game, since the sacrifices you make to win the full support of what is supposed to be a major superpower translate into you getting a smaller boost that you'd get from scanning a few planets.

edit:  @Mesina, I'm questioning their status as a council power before the war, not after it.

Though I'll note that the Asari can contribute more war assets than the Turians, and double the Salarians.  And they're also the only major race who don't attach a quid pro quo to their support.

Modifié par Wulfram, 19 avril 2012 - 06:12 .

[N-Seven]

Because Turians find their skin tone attractive, and deviant Krogans enjoy their flexibility. More cartilage in skeletal structure.

[CroGamer002]

Wulfram wrote...

I should clarify, since I think I've muddled my point here.

In general, the Salarians status as a Council power does make sense. They're presented as a major military power, if perhaps slightly below the other two old council races, and they make up for this by having exceptional scientific ability, and their skill at intelligence.

My problem is that this is not reflected at all in their War Assets, which are pitiful. Which takes away from one of the biggest choices in the game, since the sacrifices you make to win the full support of what is supposed to be a major superpower translate into you getting a smaller boost that you'd get from scanning a few planets.

Dude, System's Alliance have more War Assets then other races, even they got they got royally kicked in the ass by Reapers.

Plus, races that give you support should have lot more fleets.

So this fleets you get in War Assets screen and fleets that will help you retake Earth, not every single fleet there is that is fighting in other places in galaxy.

So reason why you got weak Salarian support is because they're protecting their borders and have lot to lose.

Turians and Asari in other hand already lost a lot so why the hell not throw lot more support.
And System Alliance is throwing everything they got to Earth, so hence why they give more support then other races.

[Avissel]

Siansonea II wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

The Salarians founded the council with the Asari... I think it would be weird if they weren't part of the club that they invented?

This. Read the Codex, folks.

Reading is hard :<

[Wulfram]

Garrus makes it pretty clear that the Turians are throwing everything at supporting the Crucible. Even the Primarch comes to Earth. And the Asari commit their fleets to the cause before Thessia falls.

And really, it's not the absence of Salarian military assets which is biggest problem - they're far to weak, but hey at least they're there. It's the total absence of any scientific or engineering contribution to the Crucible.

[Siansonea]

Well, the good news is, you've embraced the spirit of this game, which is Micromanage Mission Success Health Bar. The bad news is, THIS IS THE SPIRIT OF THIS GAME. :/ Too bad we don't have something like, oh I don't know, results of these choices to talk about. Nope. We've got "War Assets".

Modifié par Siansonea II, 19 avril 2012 - 06:51 .

[BatmanPWNS]

The better question is:
Why are the Asari so lazy and why do they deserve to keep their seat?

[Siansonea]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

The better question is:
Why are the Asari so lazy and why do they deserve to keep their seat?

How about Prothean-fueled technological superiority? I am envisioning scores of sunglasses gently descending over the eyes of asari everywhere, whilst a chorus of "Deal With It" is heard in every corner of the galaxy...

[Wulfram]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

The better question is:
Why are the Asari so lazy and why do they deserve to keep their seat?

Lazy?  They potentially contribute more than any other of the old council races.  And without demanding anything in return from Shepard.

Actually, they really should have been a little more selfish.  If they'd demanded that Shepard send a few of those Krogan their way in return for their help, rather than just helping out for free, then Thessia might still be standing.

Modifié par Wulfram, 19 avril 2012 - 06:57 .

[PsyrenY]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

The better question is:
Why are the Asari so lazy and why do they deserve to keep their seat?

They are useless, but then what do you expect from a race of.... space elves

(Bet you thought I was going to say something else)

[NM_Che56]

Thousands of years ago, before Sigourney Weaver, the Asari stumbled upon the Citadel. A few years later, the Salarians did to. They recognized they both benefited from a relationship and there you go.

[Clayless]

Optimystic_X wrote...

humes spork wrote...

First come, first served. They were the second race on the Citadel, after the asari.

Not only that, but Weekes believes that had the Asari not cheated via their Prothean Beacon/goddess, the Salarians might have been first. They were the only race to discover the citadel without outside help.

This.

[Esoretal]

The salarians are more about espionage than full-on battles.

Hence, the entire reason for the krogans' uplifting.

[IronVanguard]

Or maybe the numbers in the war assets are just arbitrarily design points designed for gameplay and not accurate depictions of galactic society?