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[naughty99]

Interesting look at narrative in games from another perspective - Q&A with Ken Levine, Chris Avellone and David Gaider


(here is Jaffe's presentation that OP is talking about

Modifié par naughty99, 23 avril 2012 - 05:42 .

[MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES]

naughty99 wrote...

Interesting look at narrative in games from another perspective - Q&A with Ken Levine, Chris Avellone and David Gaider

I WAS HOPING SOMEONE HAD PUT THAT THING ON YOUTUBE. GOOD FIND!

[UnstableMongoose]

MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

Interesting look at narrative in games from another perspective - Q&A with Ken Levine, Chris Avellone and David Gaider

I WAS HOPING SOMEONE HAD PUT THAT THING ON YOUTUBE. GOOD FIND!

This is why panels like that are brilliant. Put a bunch of freaking wizards at the same table and see what happens.

[Morroian]

naughty99 wrote...

Interesting look at narrative in games from another perspective - Q&A with Ken Levine, Chris Avellone and David Gaider


(here is Jaffe's presentation that OP is talking about

That story from Avellone about Josh Sawyer playing New Vegas and what happened when he angered both major factions in the game was awesome.

Modifié par Morroian, 24 avril 2012 - 06:02 .

[naughty99]

Morroian wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

Interesting look at narrative in games from another perspective - Q&A with Ken Levine, Chris Avellone and David Gaider


(here is Jaffe's presentation that OP is talking about

That story from Avellone about Josh Sawyer playing New Vegas and what happened when he angered both major factions in the game was awesome.

Yeah it was interesting to see these guys talking together because they have such different approaches.

[Auztin]

jreezy wrote...

Auztinito wrote...

Fortack wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Auztinito wrote...

RPG Games should be treated like a interactive movie.You control it.Action Adventure games should have great stories & narratives just like movies.I'm glad he left God of War team because i wouldn't want him on anything like God of War.Story comes first.

To sacrifice what makes a video game a video game to try and be more like books and movies is idiotic.

Indeed. Games are meant to be played, all the other stuff has nothing to do with gaming and therefore should not be the main focus of developers. The fact that Hollywood has reduced movies to showing off their latest special effects only is bad enough. I, for one, hope games will not "evolve" in a similar way.

What I mean by Story comes first is games like Uncharted,Heavy Rain,Halo,Red Dead Redemption,InFamous,Dragon Age,Mass Effect,Splinter Cell,Ghost Recon,Rainbow Six Vegas,Dead Space,& F.E.A.R.All have good storylines with decent gameplay or great gameplay.Story should be 55% & gameplay 45%
or both half & half.If games just did gameplay like the old games like Pac-Man that is like saying movies just need 3 hours of nonsense & we should be happy with like the movie 300.Movies need stories & video games do to.

What you're saying here is the story has precedence in a video game. That's not a good mindset to have. CoD is a good example of a video game following the Hollywood movie. The developers seem to want to focus on the Michael Bay explosions and as a result the franchise hasn't felt fresh in almost 5 years because gameplay innovation took a back seat.

Yes but you have it reversed.Storyline never had a front seat."Micheal Bay explosions".Wow.Call of Duty's storyline isn't unique.The gameplay is all they care about on that game.I played some of thier games but it felt to much like 300 wannabe.No sense but all gameplay(fighting & swearing) or Pac-Man on steroids & tried to put in a story with no effort.Have you played any of the games I listed.They all are great games with great or decent gameplay.

[naughty99]

Auztinito wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Auztinito wrote...

Fortack wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Auztinito wrote...

RPG Games should be treated like a interactive movie.You control it.Action Adventure games should have great stories & narratives just like movies.I'm glad he left God of War team because i wouldn't want him on anything like God of War.Story comes first.

To sacrifice what makes a video game a video game to try and be more like books and movies is idiotic.

Indeed. Games are meant to be played, all the other stuff has nothing to do with gaming and therefore should not be the main focus of developers. The fact that Hollywood has reduced movies to showing off their latest special effects only is bad enough. I, for one, hope games will not "evolve" in a similar way.

What I mean by Story comes first is games like Uncharted,Heavy Rain,Halo,Red Dead Redemption,InFamous,Dragon Age,Mass Effect,Splinter Cell,Ghost Recon,Rainbow Six Vegas,Dead Space,& F.E.A.R.All have good storylines with decent gameplay or great gameplay.Story should be 55% & gameplay 45%
or both half & half.If games just did gameplay like the old games like Pac-Man that is like saying movies just need 3 hours of nonsense & we should be happy with like the movie 300.Movies need stories & video games do to.

What you're saying here is the story has precedence in a video game. That's not a good mindset to have. CoD is a good example of a video game following the Hollywood movie. The developers seem to want to focus on the Michael Bay explosions and as a result the franchise hasn't felt fresh in almost 5 years because gameplay innovation took a back seat.

Yes but you have it reversed.Storyline never had a front seat."Micheal Bay explosions".Wow.Call of Duty's storyline isn't unique.The gameplay is all they care about on that game.I played some of thier games but it felt to much like 300 wannabe.No sense but all gameplay(fighting & swearing) or Pac-Man on steroids & tried to put in a story with no effort.Have you played any of the games I listed.They all are great games with great or decent gameplay.

Why do you consider story and gameplay to be mutually exclusive?

Can't a great story be told through the course of the gameplay instead of only through cut scenes? In other words, as you interact with NPCs, the environment and enemies, etc. You can even have dialogue with NPCs that does not zoom in to a cut scene

Modifié par naughty99, 25 avril 2012 - 01:43 .

[Auztin]

naughty99 wrote...

Auztinito wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Auztinito wrote...

Fortack wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Auztinito wrote...

RPG Games should be treated like a interactive movie.You control it.Action Adventure games should have great stories & narratives just like movies.I'm glad he left God of War team because i wouldn't want him on anything like God of War.Story comes first.

To sacrifice what makes a video game a video game to try and be more like books and movies is idiotic.

Indeed. Games are meant to be played, all the other stuff has nothing to do with gaming and therefore should not be the main focus of developers. The fact that Hollywood has reduced movies to showing off their latest special effects only is bad enough. I, for one, hope games will not "evolve" in a similar way.

What I mean by Story comes first is games like Uncharted,Heavy Rain,Halo,Red Dead Redemption,InFamous,Dragon Age,Mass Effect,Splinter Cell,Ghost Recon,Rainbow Six Vegas,Dead Space,& F.E.A.R.All have good storylines with decent gameplay or great gameplay.Story should be 55% & gameplay 45%
or both half & half.If games just did gameplay like the old games like Pac-Man that is like saying movies just need 3 hours of nonsense & we should be happy with like the movie 300.Movies need stories & video games do to.

What you're saying here is the story has precedence in a video game. That's not a good mindset to have. CoD is a good example of a video game following the Hollywood movie. The developers seem to want to focus on the Michael Bay explosions and as a result the franchise hasn't felt fresh in almost 5 years because gameplay innovation took a back seat.

Yes but you have it reversed.Storyline never had a front seat."Micheal Bay explosions".Wow.Call of Duty's storyline isn't unique.The gameplay is all they care about on that game.I played some of thier games but it felt to much like 300 wannabe.No sense but all gameplay(fighting & swearing) or Pac-Man on steroids & tried to put in a story with no effort.Have you played any of the games I listed.They all are great games with great or decent gameplay.

Why do you consider story and gameplay to be mutually exclusive?

Can't a great story be told through the course of the gameplay instead of only through cut scenes? In other words, as you interact with NPCs, the environment and enemies, etc. You can even have dialogue with NPCs that does not zoom in to a cut scene

     What your saying is make games like Bethesda?They're story on thier games can be improved if ease off gameplay just a little.They had great concepts on each game but it lacks in the story because gameplay would ruin it because of the bugs.Would you watch a movie with no plot & no climax with people speaking latin or a language you don't understand with no subtitles & be satisfied because it just had 3 hours of nothing?I wouldn't be satified I know that.Do you expect a book or movie to have a story,climax,& a plot?
     If you want a game just based on gameplay there is arcade games & other games like CoD.If you want those kind of games that you can play but not every game should be like that.

Modifié par Auztinito, 26 avril 2012 - 05:00 .

[xsdob]

I don't see what he's talking about, I really liked asura's wrath and that was pretty much just an anime with a few bits of gameplay between them.

[termokanden]

Khayness wrote...

By chasing movies game makers have slowed the growth of game mechanics. Last year's crop of first-person-shooters, as we pointed out at the time, look and play nearly identical because the industry has let mechanical innovation languish in favor of a ceaseless quest to perfect film-like elements like set pieces, audio and graphical quality, or higher-fidelity cutscenes.

Yeah, that's why we have regenerating health and 2 guns. What happened to most shooters since Half Life 2? 1 year development cycle and shameless money grabbing, thats what.

You can easily have an excellent game with regenerating health. That really isn't the problem.

That said, you shouldn't ALWAYS have regenerating health. The game I'm playing at the moment, Jagged Alliance 2, has a very harsh system where you can even lose dex by being shot in the shoulder or wisdom by being shot in the head. You also lose a lot of precious time healing your characters. Dark Corners of the Earth managed to terrorize you just a bit further with its harsh system where you can break your leg by falling too far and suffer blood loss and such.

It depends on the game really. If the point is to be some sort of survival game, then obviously regenerating health can be counterproductive. But in a very straight-forward action game, it sucks to have to backtrack to get health pickups.

My favorite examples here are GTA4 and Red Dead Redemption. In GTA4, I would always call Little Jacob after each mission to replenish my armor. It wasn't a matter of resources really, because I could always afford it. It was just time wasted and got old really, really fast. In Red Dead Redemption, I'd just go do the next mission instead without being annoyed first.

Modifié par termokanden, 26 avril 2012 - 06:37 .

[naughty99]

Another interesting interview about storytelling in games (with Ken Levine and Amy Hennig)

Modifié par naughty99, 27 avril 2012 - 01:09 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Sometimes I think that people need to be forced to play the System Shock games, Thief games and Shadow of the Colossus - Clockwork Orange style - before they comment on how gameplay and story are mutually exclusive concepts.

Hell, even the Portal games would suffice.

Gameplay/story segregation is one of the two things that hamstring destroy the ability for developers to give truly good narrative driven game experiences because it seeps into every other aspect of both game and narrative.

(The other is an issue of talent and story design).

Modifié par CrustyBot, 27 avril 2012 - 02:17 .

[slimgrin]

I watched the presentation and my impression of Jaffe is that he has a narrow set of experiences to draw from when making his conclusions. He straight up seems naive.

Modifié par slimgrin, 27 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[DukeOfNukes]

I think there's plenty of room for all types of games. Dunno why they're trying to force people into their vision.

[Chromie]

CrustyBot wrote...

Sometimes I think that people need to be forced to play the System Shock games, Thief games and Shadow of the Colossus - Clockwork Orange style - before they comment on how gameplay and story are mutually exclusive concepts.

Frankly if someone has played System Shock or Thief by now they deserve to lose their console or PC! 

I hear Garret knows a fence.

Modifié par Skelter192, 27 avril 2012 - 07:35 .