197 réponses à ce sujet

[Dead_Meat357]

George Costanza wrote...

ChickenMan77 wrote...

Plus you know what your getting into when you start watching a David Lynch movie...I love Mulholland Drive but dislike the ME3 ending because that's not what I signed on for

This sums it up for me.

I love lots of movies that are considered somewhat arty or obscure. I watch a lot of world cinema and some of my favourite directors and movies are foreign. I'm by no means sat in Starbucks wearing a scarf and laughing at mainstream cinema with my hipster friends, but I do like to retain an open mind and give anything a try.

But the ending to Mass Effect 3 isn't art. Throwing your audience a curveball at the eleventh hour isn't art. Getting people talking isn't art. Hitting your demographic with something they don't see coming isn't art.

The Mass Effect 3 ending is at odds with what has come before it, and it's out of place in the series. If the entire series had been the same as the ending tonally and thematically then (despite still being very poorly written and executed) it would at least have been consistent. As ChickenMan said, we know what we're getting into with David Lynch and we know what we were into when we were playing Mass Effect. The ending to ME3 is akin to tacking the crucifix singalong from Life Of Brian onto the end of Schindlers List.

Ludicrous.

Yeah that about sums it up.

[Taboo]

humes spork wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

If anything he has made movies worse.

Eh, I consider Bay a symptom of what's wrong with contemporary entertainment standards rather than a cause.

That's a much better statement than I made. The ending feels like an art film with Michael Bay logic.

[Jeb231]

Taboo-XX wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

I was an extra on Gambler V in Galveston, TX. That means I work in the industry. Right?

I've worked on commercials, documentaries, and I've even worked with the prop master from one of David Lynch's films.

It's my job. I do it for a living. It pays my bills.

Which one?

[zarnk567]

Taboo-XX wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

If anything he has made movies worse.

Eh, I consider Bay a symptom of what's wrong with contemporary entertainment standards rather than a cause.

That's a much better statement than I made. The ending feels like an art film with Michael Bay logic.

That actually is rather good statement for what we recieved. 

[StElmo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

 I've created this topic in response to the communities reactions to the fake information coming out of Reddit and to summarize what an extended cut is and what it means for Mass Effect. Please remember that this is my job and a both the film and game development communities share similarities.

Why you need to pay attention to what Mr. Gamble says:

Mr. Gamble has completely blown me away by simply talking to us in some capacity and we should feel lucky that we're getting anything at all. Most producers are absolutely awful people. They care little about the audience and are only in to make a product that will make money and really don't care about who gets burned in their warpath. I have worked with people like this and they are some of the most unpleasent people I've ever encountered. Mr. Gamble has convinced me he is not like this simply by talking to the community.

Secondly Mr. Gamble confirmed yesterday my own suspicions on where the Extended Cut is now. It is still in pre-production. Bioware is still writing scripts, dialouge and are drawing storyboards. They have not commited to doing anything yet and are still gathering constructive feedback. Under no circumstances should you believe anything that comes from 4Chan or Reddit or any other media site as they are well aware of the situation on the BSN and will take every chance they can to troll you. The only people you should be paying attention to are Bioware employees.

Performing feats of Alchemy: Turning turds in gold.

I'd like to take some time to remind people what an extended cut means and how it will affect Mass Effect 3. An extended cut can:

Add footage
Restore plot points
Remove plot points and replace them with others (!)

This additions can directly make an impact on what a narrative does and how it is expressed. I believe that the current narrative is inappropriate because it does not reflect on past descisions and choices, nor do I find it particularly palatable.

You can fix quite a lot by mixing things around and by playing with the narrative a bit. Let me know if you want examples of things that have benefitted from editing and additional footage.

This beer tastes awful!: Bioware's mistake of serving you "arty" beer.

I like art films a great deal, unfortunatley a great majority of people do not, and I think has caused a great deal of anger on the forums. BSN users are not dumb but they are unfamiliar with what I would consider to be true "artistic" endeavors and much like beer your first taste is particularly unpleasent. It doesn't taste good, I understand and you don't have to partake in it if you don't want to. If you do continue to "drink" it will eventually taste better even if the experience is a bad one. I think this is where Bioware dropped the ball big time and where they need to step up to plate in this extended cut. They need to make it more palatable to a mainstream audience.

Stop giving people your dirty laundry! We've already got our fingers in everyone's pies!

One great piece of advice I can give you is you must, must stop giving the media your dirty laundry (see link in title for explanation). The media loves nothing more than latching on to the worst aspects of anything and will use it to gather hits and spread discord. I myself am very frustrated by the media's reaction but also by some of the communties actions. When you act like an amourous baboon everytime you don't get your way it looks particularly bad on the community as a whole. This is something I deal with in the film community all the time. I myself have had to go into damage control over certain film's reception and believe me it's not fun. Lastly be thankful that Bioware is aware that many people are willing to give active mature feedback and are listening at all. We've already rustled enough jimmies, there is no need to rustle more.



I'm unsure about what else I can say. The last bit of advice I can give is that we've got to calm down a bit, at least until an official announcement is made.

I'd be happy to answer any questions if you have any.

Thanks man!

I appreciate your perspective, I think gaming is a different industry though, it's interactive =rather then passive (I am a film maker myself, probably not as integrated with the industry as you are, clearly )

But yes, I hope your sentiment is true, because I only started giving feedback after the DLC was announced.

I think I also need to revive my ! <3 bioware thread. Or make a new one.

[Zardoc]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

I agree OP, people should just wait for the DLC, rather than continue to be destructive or bring up the same points a million times. The extended cut could add so much to the endings, you'll see things play out after your Crucible choice that wont appear in others.

Inb4:

Artistic integrity
Lots of speculation

As would taking a second dump on a turd. Doesn't mean it'll be good.


And BioWare already said they won't change the ending. The EC will fail, because massive retconning and asspulls will be necessary.

[Clayless]

Zardoc wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

I agree OP, people should just wait for the DLC, rather than continue to be destructive or bring up the same points a million times. The extended cut could add so much to the endings, you'll see things play out after your Crucible choice that wont appear in others.

Inb4:

Artistic integrity
Lots of speculation

As would taking a second dump on a turd. Doesn't mean it'll be good.


And BioWare already said they won't change the ending. The EC will fail, because massive retconning and asspulls will be necessary.

By the looks of it you're not going to like the EC.

Welp, no point wasting your time here, I'd trade in your game right now if I were you.

[ed87]

As far as im concerned, i saw the same endings when i played Deus Ex but i actually enjoyed it in the Deus Ex universe. I dont have a hard time with the 'art' of the ending like OP says. For me it felt like taking the end of The Matrix and using it to end Star Wars.

Bioware are definately being nice lately, but i think all that will benefit them as a business in the end anyway. I have yet to see the guys do or say something that has no possible agenda but love for their fans. Free DLC looks and smells like damage control given the current situation.

There are many examples of game developers treating their fans well, but they behave very differently to Bioware. It seems like BW want to be nice but theyre torn between the fans they love and a corporation like EA that mainly exists to make money.

Ive done my business degree and a lot of Bioware's recent actions have been very textbook. In the end, its cheaper to keep an existing customer than to make new customers.

[Vintage_Shepard]

If the OP was Michael Bay, half of his words would be expletives and he would be complaining on the lack of explosions in ME3. Then he'd say that he'd like to make the movie version but make the turtles aliens or something, idk.

[Vaneke]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Performing feats of Alchemy: Turning turds in gold.

I'd like to take some time to remind people what an extended cut means and how it will affect Mass Effect 3. An extended cut can:

Add footage
Restore plot points
Remove plot points and replace them with others (!)

some people really need to learn to read.
it clearly says in the announcement,

BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences.

so i will see some krogan on tuchanka, maybe in peace cause i cured the genophage, and urdnot bakara trying to hold the peace.
quarians rebuilding on rannoch.
and some other scenes. ah yes, and some camp on an alien planet where my crew crashed. yeah. okay.

honestly tho, i liked the game, i'm not one to easily give comments or say it was bad, but there are two things you can't change.
my ground crew ended up on the normandy.  -> "space magic"
and the entire normandy flew away and left me on the citadel.

you cannot "fix" this with some dlc. if you do, it's "space magic"  all over again and just saying, 'fine, we screwed up", here's your ending that makes sense. cause that's the only thing that really bothered me, the choices were presented okay, even tho i also missed some paragon/renegade choices with the the star child.
free scenes are okay for those who want it, but that's not what i would have wanted to "fix" what was poorly executed.

i would have been more satisfied with my crew dying or atleast some of them, or either surviving and having krogan adopted babies.
this just didn't make sense. at all. and it will not be fixed in the dlc.

[dkear1]

I have to laugh at the whole we should be lucky Gamble is talking to us nonsense. Who gives a crap if he talks as he is not addressing any of the issues we have. "What did you like about the game" and "No the 4chan deal is false" is not talking.

And where is Casey for that matter? He has so many broken promises that it takes a wall of text to list them all. Why aren't they here on the boards explaining why what they promised was not delivered.

At this point no one is believing anything they say due to all the stuff that was promised before and then ignored. If you make promises and don't deliver then you need to man up and explain why!

The EC will fail if it doesn't scrap the ending and come up with a better one. If the star child stays then it is doomed. Mark it down if you like as it is the safest bet you will likely ever make.

[Taboo]

Jeb231 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

I was an extra on Gambler V in Galveston, TX. That means I work in the industry. Right?

I've worked on commercials, documentaries, and I've even worked with the prop master from one of David Lynch's films.

It's my job. I do it for a living. It pays my bills.

Which one?

The David Lynch film? Lost Highway. I worked with (Craig) Sherman Hall, the prop master.

Fun guy.

[Taboo]

dkear1 wrote...

I have to laugh at the whole we should be lucky Gamble is talking to us nonsense. Who gives a crap if he talks as he is not addressing any of the issues we have. "What did you like about the game" and "No the 4chan deal is false" is not talking.

And where is Casey for that matter? He has so many broken promises that it takes a wall of text to list them all. Why aren't they here on the boards explaining why what they promised was not delivered.

Producers for the most part are pretty terrifying people the only that makes them worse is if they happen to a studio executive ( like Harvey Weinstein ).

As for Mr. Hudson being silent the matter we only really need to look at ourselves for the answer to that. Anything he says or does now comes under speculation. He can't say or do anything without being attacked nor will he probably say much until sometime later.

[eddieoctane]

Taboo-XX wrote...

ChickenMan77 wrote...

Hey!!! I didn't order a Zima..I wanted a Pabst

PABST IS A TERRIBLE BEER.

Yeungling. Oldest brew in the states, and one of the best IMHO. Anywhere in PA you order a lager, that's what you get. And believe me, it's dawn worth it.

[Taboo]

Mr. Gamble has already been talking about retconning things as well. The best thing you can do is wait and see what pops up on Twitter. As I stated in the original post they are still in the scripting stage and that's were idea's sprout and facts change. The initial announcement is very lackluster and has already been contradicted by sources within the Bioware offices.

[ZombieJohn84]

STEEEEVE wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


This beer tastes awful!: Bioware's mistake of serving you "arty" beer.

I like art films a great deal, unfortunatley a great majority of people do not, and I think has caused a great deal of anger on the forums. BSN users are not dumb but they are unfamiliar with what I would consider to be true "artistic" endeavors and much like beer your first taste is particularly unpleasent. It doesn't taste good, I understand and you don't have to partake in it if you don't want to. If you do continue to "drink" it will eventually taste better even if the experience is a bad one. I think this is where Bioware dropped the ball big time and where they need to step up to plate in this extended cut. They need to make it more palatable to a mainstream audience.

I agree with everything you said except this.  Here it seems to me that you are implying that liking the ending or not is simply a matter of taste, with which i disagree.  As someone who works in the film industry, hopefully you can appreciate the frequently used comparison that the Mass Effect 3 ending is like if you slapped the ending of 2001: A Space Odyssey onto the final act of Return of the Jedi.  It has nothing to do with the fact that some users on the board may not be familiar with artistic films, and has everything to do with the fact that nearly every theme in the game was either disregarded or contradicted in the ending.

This.  Very much.

[Taboo]

ZombieJohn84 wrote...

STEEEEVE wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


This beer tastes awful!: Bioware's mistake of serving you "arty" beer.

I like art films a great deal, unfortunatley a great majority of people do not, and I think has caused a great deal of anger on the forums. BSN users are not dumb but they are unfamiliar with what I would consider to be true "artistic" endeavors and much like beer your first taste is particularly unpleasent. It doesn't taste good, I understand and you don't have to partake in it if you don't want to. If you do continue to "drink" it will eventually taste better even if the experience is a bad one. I think this is where Bioware dropped the ball big time and where they need to step up to plate in this extended cut. They need to make it more palatable to a mainstream audience.

I agree with everything you said except this.  Here it seems to me that you are implying that liking the ending or not is simply a matter of taste, with which i disagree.  As someone who works in the film industry, hopefully you can appreciate the frequently used comparison that the Mass Effect 3 ending is like if you slapped the ending of 2001: A Space Odyssey onto the final act of Return of the Jedi.  It has nothing to do with the fact that some users on the board may not be familiar with artistic films, and has everything to do with the fact that nearly every theme in the game was either disregarded or contradicted in the ending.

This.  Very much.

Would you like me to expand upon this issue with an update? I admit that the original post needs some work.

[shinyelf]

Thanks to the OP for a constructive post in a destructive forum, I really like that there is someone out there with the language and artistic knowledge to deliver this message.

[Kaelef]

ZombieJohn84 wrote...

STEEEEVE wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


This beer tastes awful!: Bioware's mistake of serving you "arty" beer.

I like art films a great deal, unfortunatley a great majority of people do not, and I think has caused a great deal of anger on the forums. BSN users are not dumb but they are unfamiliar with what I would consider to be true "artistic" endeavors and much like beer your first taste is particularly unpleasent. It doesn't taste good, I understand and you don't have to partake in it if you don't want to. If you do continue to "drink" it will eventually taste better even if the experience is a bad one. I think this is where Bioware dropped the ball big time and where they need to step up to plate in this extended cut. They need to make it more palatable to a mainstream audience.

I agree with everything you said except this.  Here it seems to me that you are implying that liking the ending or not is simply a matter of taste, with which i disagree.  As someone who works in the film industry, hopefully you can appreciate the frequently used comparison that the Mass Effect 3 ending is like if you slapped the ending of 2001: A Space Odyssey onto the final act of Return of the Jedi.  It has nothing to do with the fact that some users on the board may not be familiar with artistic films, and has everything to do with the fact that nearly every theme in the game was either disregarded or contradicted in the ending.

This.  Very much.

Yes. Me too. Also.

The ending's "artiness" is not a problem - at least not to most people. It's its inconsistencies with the rest of the story (going all the way back to ME1 and forward to the battle in London) that upsets many people.

[Taboo]

shinyelf wrote...

Thanks to the OP for a constructive post in a destructive forum, I really like that there is someone out there with the language and artistic knowledge to deliver this message.

I'm offering my opinion. That and my sincerity are all I can offer.

[clarkusdarkus]

please take advice from a dental technician....gamble was one of those that lied pre-release and im tired of those acting like were on there case 24/7. of course his gonna talk to us upon occasion, they havent recieved any money for dlc yet have they.

[Taboo]

 The ending feels like something I would have seen a first year film and literature student would write. I'm actually very upset that it pulls a 180 also but this kind of thing does happen where I come from. The problem is consistency.

I can't gauge everyone's opinion though and I seem to get the feeling that people are more upset from the attempt at being artistic rather the content itself.

I can talk about proper and improper implentation from my point of view if you'd like.

[dkear1]

Taboo-XX wrote...

dkear1 wrote...

I have to laugh at the whole we should be lucky Gamble is talking to us nonsense. Who gives a crap if he talks as he is not addressing any of the issues we have. "What did you like about the game" and "No the 4chan deal is false" is not talking.

And where is Casey for that matter? He has so many broken promises that it takes a wall of text to list them all. Why aren't they here on the boards explaining why what they promised was not delivered.

Producers for the most part are pretty terrifying people the only that makes them worse is if they happen to a studio executive ( like Harvey Weinstein ).

As for Mr. Hudson being silent the matter we only really need to look at ourselves for the answer to that. Anything he says or does now comes under speculation. He can't say or do anything without being attacked nor will he probably say much until sometime later.

Terrifying???  Maybe to those that work for them but they don't scare me a bit.  They take a ****** just like anyone else so......

As for Hudson coming under fire right now.  Of course he would and he would DESERVE IT!!!  He broke a wall of text of promises.  The time for him to have duck tape on his mouth was the last two years NOT now!  Now he needs to be in here explaining why he couldn't deliver on what he promised.

It only makes them look more out of touch and uncaring when they keep up the silent treatment.  Active involvement on their part could have diffused the rage and prevented all of the ending fallout.  Fans here really do "want" to like the game.  It seems that most on this forum and other forums I spend time on really like 99% of the game or at least don't dispise it like the ending.  

So they blew the ending and then blew any possiblilty of calming folks down by staying silent.  That is two strikes for those who are keeping track.  I don't see much hope with what has been said regarding the EC so it is looking like a strikeout is coming.  Darn shame as this series is the best that I have ever played....until that ending.

[jds1bio]

Stop comparing films and games, OP. "Making the ending palatable to a mainstream audience" has nothing to do with the core Mass Effect game mechanics of choice and consequence, paragon/renegade, etc. that the very final scene disbanded with.

In addition, producers in film and games do very different things. Producers in the game industry from game to game, and studio to studio, do very different things, so unfortunately your comparison needs more work.

And sorry that you think producers in your industry are just awful awful people - you might as well call everyone on BSN "entitled whiny gamers" if you are going to make such a generalization about film producers. Lots of gamers thing the publishers are just awful awful people, but yet they still publish games that people buy and play. So they can't be THAT bad ALL the time, can they?

And "arty" beer? If you are going to update your post, you're better off with the Pepsi Challenge analogy - where further testing recorded a difference in preference on which first sip tastes the best, vs. which full glass was the most satisfying.