539 réponses à ce sujet

[_aLucidMind_]

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

...
1.Then I'll ask you the same thing I asked Gatt9: Which other accounts are "owned" by me? 

2.Follow-up: If I was a paid PR troll for EA, wouldn't I have ME3 registered on my account?

3.Additional follow-up: This account has been active since 09, have I been a paid PR troll this entire time, even in all the time where I made no posts and simply lurked?

numbered for my convenience
1. IDK, maybe you are good at keeping it secret. But then again, you might not have one and just derail and flame with that one account, you have done it before.

2. Part of your disguise

3. EA took control of that account and made it part of the troll army. Or yes. Or maybe their was no need to activate it while there was no uproar going on.

Still, it is extremely unfair, dismissive, and flat out rude to assume that people are just paid PR trolls or shills without sufficient proof and there is no proof beyond his opinions. A lot of the people I've seen being called such, Father_Jerusalem included, are often just stating their opinion and often in a seemingly aggrivated manner due to being dismissed as trolls by this "must be PR in disguise" mentality some have. Being dismissed often for merely having an opposing opinion, as I'm sure you're just as aware as I am, and labeled as a troll for it can cause much aggrivation and can even make a person unintentionally come off as a troll or as naturally hostile.
A nasty side effect of this "your side vs my side" mentality that needs to stop.

[Father_Jerusalem]

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

...
1.Then I'll ask you the same thing I asked Gatt9: Which other accounts are "owned" by me? 

2.Follow-up: If I was a paid PR troll for EA, wouldn't I have ME3 registered on my account?

3.Additional follow-up: This account has been active since 09, have I been a paid PR troll this entire time, even in all the time where I made no posts and simply lurked?

numbered for my convenience
1. IDK, maybe you are good at keeping it secret. But then again, you might not have one and just derail and flame with that one account, you have done it before.

2. Part of your disguise

3. EA took control of that account and made it part of the troll army. Or yes. Or maybe their was no need to activate it while there was no uproar going on.

Still, it is extremely unfair, dismissive, and flat out rude to assume that people are just paid PR trolls or shills without sufficient proof and there is no proof beyond his opinions. A lot of the people I've seen being called such, Father_Jerusalem included, are often just stating their opinion and often in a seemingly aggrivated manner due to being dismissed as trolls by this "must be PR in disguise" mentality some have. Being dismissed often for merely having an opposing opinion, as I'm sure you're just as aware as I am, and labeled as a troll for it can cause much aggrivation and can even make a person unintentionally come off as a troll or as naturally hostile.
A nasty side effect of this "your side vs my side" mentality that needs to stop.

Thank you very much. Just because someone doesn't agree with me doesn't give me the right to label them a troll, and I would expect the same thing in return. I try very hard not to throw that term around, but it seems that the courtesy is not returned. 

I'm a fan. I like BioWare. I like ME3. I like the endings. Do I think they could be better? Of course. Am I glad they're doing the EC? Absolutely. Am I still going to defend BioWare for the endings as is, and defend their right to make the game THEY want to make? You betcha.

Am I going to be labelled a paid PR troll for doing so? Unfortunately, we all know it.

[Father_Jerusalem]

slyguy200 wrote...

Noboby would be talking about it if he hadn't brought it up. As for the thing with the opposing ideas, it is true i have been called a troll many times for disagreeing, thing is i can often back it up. I have memories from the first time i encountered Jerusalem, he literally derailed an otherwise peaceful thread and turned it into a huge flame war, then when new people posted he claimed that he had been attacked for his obvious trolling. I think that thread was quickly locked, but only after like 10 pages of flames, all started by him.

Rose colored glasses much?

Of course, you're never to blame for anything. It's always "the other". 

[Father_Jerusalem]

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Noboby would be talking about it if he hadn't brought it up. As for the thing with the opposing ideas, it is true i have been called a troll many times for disagreeing, thing is i can often back it up. I have memories from the first time i encountered Jerusalem, he literally derailed an otherwise peaceful thread and turned it into a huge flame war, then when new people posted he claimed that he had been attacked for his obvious trolling. I think that thread was quickly locked, but only after like 10 pages of flames, all started by him.

Rose colored glasses much?

Of course, you're never to blame for anything. It's always "the other". 

Provocation, is first needed. In this case it was supplied by you. So, yes.

aLucidMind and I disagree on the endings. I can have rational discussions with him, and many others.

You, and some others, and I disagree on the endings. I cannot have rational discussions with you.

Please, read this, and understand the difference. 
Flowchart-to-determine-if-youre-having-a-rational-discussion-e1300206446831-634x882.jpg (634×882) 

[thunderhawk862002]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

...
1.Then I'll ask you the same thing I asked Gatt9: Which other accounts are "owned" by me? 

2.Follow-up: If I was a paid PR troll for EA, wouldn't I have ME3 registered on my account?

3.Additional follow-up: This account has been active since 09, have I been a paid PR troll this entire time, even in all the time where I made no posts and simply lurked?

numbered for my convenience
1. IDK, maybe you are good at keeping it secret. But then again, you might not have one and just derail and flame with that one account, you have done it before.

2. Part of your disguise

3. EA took control of that account and made it part of the troll army. Or yes. Or maybe their was no need to activate it while there was no uproar going on.

Still, it is extremely unfair, dismissive, and flat out rude to assume that people are just paid PR trolls or shills without sufficient proof and there is no proof beyond his opinions. A lot of the people I've seen being called such, Father_Jerusalem included, are often just stating their opinion and often in a seemingly aggrivated manner due to being dismissed as trolls by this "must be PR in disguise" mentality some have. Being dismissed often for merely having an opposing opinion, as I'm sure you're just as aware as I am, and labeled as a troll for it can cause much aggrivation and can even make a person unintentionally come off as a troll or as naturally hostile.
A nasty side effect of this "your side vs my side" mentality that needs to stop.

Thank you very much. Just because someone doesn't agree with me doesn't give me the right to label them a troll, and I would expect the same thing in return. I try very hard not to throw that term around, but it seems that the courtesy is not returned. 

I'm a fan. I like BioWare. I like ME3. I like the endings. Do I think they could be better? Of course. Am I glad they're doing the EC? Absolutely. Am I still going to defend BioWare for the endings as is, and defend their right to make the game THEY want to make? You betcha.

Am I going to be labelled a paid PR troll for doing so? Unfortunately, we all know it.

I'd say there's a 10% chance of you being a paid BioWare troll based on my statistical analysis.  Well within the margin of error.  However, there are some on the boards that it wouldn't surprise me to see that they were.  On both sides.

Modifié par thunderhawk862002, 25 avril 2012 - 01:03 .

[ChildOfEden]

Arcian wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

I recognize a great loss of supporting signatures and threads about it, the official Facebook page got completely silent, fundraisers are closed, cupcake action lays some time in the past...

What about "Hold the Line"?
Did the movement got finally killed with the Extended Cut or what?

No, they went into stasis to wait until the rEApers return to Dark Space.

+1

[_aLucidMind_]

slyguy200 wrote...

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

[Direct Link to Quoted Post: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/11539711/20#11660803 ]

YOU ARE TRYING TO HELP HIM, I AM NOW SUSPICIOUS OF YOU!!! /Sarcasm... maybe...
Noboby would be talking about it if he hadn't brought it up. As for the thing with the opposing ideas, it is true i have been called a troll many times for disagreeing, thing is i can often back it up. I have memories from the first time i encountered Jerusalem, he literally derailed an otherwise peaceful thread and turned it into a huge flame war, then when new people posted he claimed that he had been attacked for his obvious trolling. I think that thread was quickly locked, but only after like 10 pages of flames, all started by him.

Naw lol, I generally just try to get people to see the other side's view and explain how they're likely feeling and why =p
In those cases, that is why we're able to PM the mods lol (refer to my sig). To keep the conversation civil, ignore who you deem a troll and PM a mod requesting him/her to look into it. They'll give a warning to them or lock the thread if they see that the user in question is really trolling. If you call out someone who is merely stating their opinion, regardless of how they are coming off, by calling them a troll and dismiss them, then that is insulting their opinion when all that may be required is a PM to the mod or a request to the user asking them to cool down. Sometimes just letting someone know off the bat that how they're stating their tone comes off a rude or hostile can help; it often is merely how they're saying it as opposed to what they're saying.

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

[Direct Link to Quoted Post: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/11539711/20#11660803 ]

Thank you very much. Just because someone doesn't agree with me doesn't give me the right to label them a troll, and I would expect the same thing in return. I try very hard not to throw that term around, but it seems that the courtesy is not returned. 

I'm a fan. I like BioWare. I like ME3. I like the endings. Do I think they could be better? Of course. Am I glad they're doing the EC? Absolutely. Am I still going to defend BioWare for the endings as is, and defend their right to make the game THEY want to make? You betcha.

Am I going to be labelled a paid PR troll for doing so? Unfortunately, we all know it.

You're welcome. Both sides tend to dismiss each other as trolls a bit too often; it breeds hostility and I just want to remind people that this is how most "trolls" come off as trolls unintentionally. The whole "my side vs their side" mentality so many blindly adhere to at times just aggrivates people. We're all fans and we all have differing opinions on things but we all come here to discuss them as people. The last thing any of us wants is someone attacking each other; making a thread or post on an opinion should not have to feel like getting a prostate check. If people want trolls, I could try and get ManGirraffeDog to come back if I find him but not even I want that lmao.

However, I do agree on what others say when they say that you do tend to come off as very aggressive at times; that is the main thing that contributes to others feeling you are a troll lol.

EDIT: Grammatical/Spelling Errors.

Modifié par _aLucidMind_, 25 avril 2012 - 01:25 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...


I'd say there's a 10% chance of you being a paid BioWare troll based on my statistical analysis.  Well within the margin of error.  However, there are some on the boards that it wouldn't surprise me to see that they were.  On both sides.

According to my statistical analysis, as well as my bank account, and the amount of student loans I have, I'd say there's a 0% chance of me being a paid BioWare troll.

But what do I know, I'm just the guy being accused of it, right?

[thunderhawk862002]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...


I'd say there's a 10% chance of you being a paid BioWare troll based on my statistical analysis.  Well within the margin of error.  However, there are some on the boards that it wouldn't surprise me to see that they were.  On both sides.

According to my statistical analysis, as well as my bank account, and the amount of student loans I have, I'd say there's a 0% chance of me being a paid BioWare troll.

But what do I know, I'm just the guy being accused of it, right?

It's was a joke.  Besides noone ever said they paid well.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

At the cost of dignity?  It didn't
cost dignity, just their 2cs and outrage (plus a brief display of their
wallet size).  And what you just listed, are the most civil ways to
protest/speak out for change while actually getting attention that can
make a difference.

Bioware lost a great deal of their Artistic
"INTEGRITY" when they released that ending in the state that it was in
(I know that I won't be buying a Bioware game at full price any time
soon.. and others that don't even bother saying anything).  They can
regain their full integrity back by fixing it.  They owe it to
themselves to do that... and they have the opportunity to do it... a
very rare thing.

Bioware's reputation and standard for excellence took a large hit with this... no two ways about it.

You fail to mention just how bioware lost its integrity.

Put it in bold for you.  I also underlined the important parts.

You all just don't understand.
They have told us that they didn't know the players would care so much about the ending of a trilogy, so why not trust them?

Actually, Bioware admitted (ahead of time) that some fans would be angry with the ending shortly before the game launched.
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry 

They also enacted/stressed the rule to not insult Bioware staff shortly before launch.

Now we know that Bioware's definition of "some" means "the vast majority"... as those same "some" are the ones they claim are participating in the backlash we're witnessing.

[_aLucidMind_]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Actually, Bioware admitted (ahead of time) that some fans would be angry with the ending shortly before the game launched.
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry 

They also enacted/stressed the rule to not insult Bioware staff shortly before launch.

Now we know that Bioware's definition of "some" means "the vast majority"... as those same "some" are the ones they claim are participating in the backlash we're witnessing.

Which makes me wonder why they don't just come out and say "we know this wasn't the very best we can come up with" and why they went with the current ending. Instead we get passive-aggression and back-handed comments most of the time followed by condescension.

Modifié par _aLucidMind_, 25 avril 2012 - 01:59 .

[addiction21]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

They also enacted/stressed the rule to not insult Bioware staff shortly before launch.

It was also enacted shortly after this cluster **** http://social.biowar...0/index/9381043

BioWare has been dealing with "backlash" after every major release for a decade. No its all about them being scared of you.

Also those "rules they enacted" have always been in effect. Always. It just got to a point they needed to take a hardline. Not because they are scared of the fans but because people have been taking advantage of their leniency for a long time.

[thunderhawk862002]

addiction21 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

They also enacted/stressed the rule to not insult Bioware staff shortly before launch.

It was also enacted shortly after this cluster **** http://social.biowar...0/index/9381043

BioWare has been dealing with "backlash" after every major release for a decade. No its all about them being scared of you.

Also those "rules they enacted" have always been in effect. Always. It just got to a point they needed to take a hardline. Not because they are scared of the fans but because people have been taking advantage of their leniency for a long time.

Have they always locked spoiler threads to non game owners or is that a new thing?

[Yajuu Omoi]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...
You want a REAL result?? Be a REAL person! Use REAL common sense! keep your integrity and simply give the well deserved feedback that they ASK for!! THey ASK us how we feel about a game, answer that question, and leave it at that, they will prove on their own what kind o fcompany they are.

One can't prove who they are when they're being told what to do.

Oh they're hearing about how players feel about the game.... believe me.

But the fact that they released an ending as unpolished as what they did speaks volumes about "who they are".. or more accurately "who they're becoming."

A wake up call is in order.  Hopefully they heard it.  The industry does not need to go down a direction where endings are unfinished/lopped off to cut costs... and certainly not to try and defend such a large quality drop behind the guise of "Artistic Integrity."

In the press, I get that, but to fans who already know and saw what they got (and already paid money for it I might add)... you can't tell them it's an ending to be proud of... not yet.

Truely, i agree. I don't want them becoming a second rate, understated company. but with the way this "movement" has been going...it may produce a result...but not a good, lasting result.

[Yajuu Omoi]

slyguy200 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Trolls!^

Thank the whole uproar for both of the free DLC's. Resurgence would have been $4, and EC too.
Your welcome. 

No, resurgance was PLANNED from day one to be free. and the EC isn't even needed. YOU are welcome.

I got proof. What you got? I will give you the proof that i have if you give me yours.
And don't forget i asked first.
And if it is just BW's word that you are choosing to rely on, they have been covering for themselves from the start, and they have lied before.

Proof huh? You work on the games MP servers? you're an employee of EA/BW?
I don't care who you think you are or what you think you "got"
I have simply common sense, why would there be an open ended slot in the char select screen that was filled PERFECTLY by the new characters? Why would they leave out a major allied race in the usable characters? Or even an old enemy that turns ally during SP? They wouldn't. Its a typical hype scheme, leave out some well liked characters, just to add them later for free to spike the server count. It works.

There's all the "proof" you need. now go cry in your corner.

[Turtlicious]

cbutz wrote...

Many probably gave up on Bioware and instead of holding the line they are holding their wallets. Many , like myself , are waiting and seeing, though I will not hold my breath. I in turn am turning my internet energies onto other things and projects.

I downloaded every porn mod on Skyrim to see how many people different poeple/acts/location combinations I can get without freezing or console commands.

Personal favorite?

Lydia, an argonian, and myself (a Khajit) ontop of Pathurnax's back.

[Yajuu Omoi]

slyguy200 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Trolls!^

Thank the whole uproar for both of the free DLC's. Resurgence would have been $4, and EC too.
Your welcome. 

No, resurgance was PLANNED from day one to be free. and the EC isn't even needed. YOU are welcome.

I got proof. What you got? I will give you the proof that i have if you give me yours.
And don't forget i asked first.
And if it is just BW's word that you are choosing to rely on, they have been covering for themselves from the start, and they have lied before.

Proof huh? You work on the games MP servers? you're an employee of EA/BW?
I don't care who you think you are or what you think you "got"
I have simply common sense, why would there be an open ended slot in the char select screen that was filled PERFECTLY by the new characters? Why would they leave out a major allied race in the usable characters? Or even an old enemy that turns ally during SP? They wouldn't. Its a typical hype scheme, leave out some well liked characters, just to add them later for free to spike the server count. It works.

There's all the "proof" you need. now go cry in your corner.

It was removed content that could be put back in, but for a price. Sounds like EA to me...
It's original price was revealed on XBL when MS messed up and put it in the Marketplace for it's original price, $4 in MS points so that would be 320 of them, that is what i know.
Now go and think about what you have said.

I bolded and underlined the bit that i already said, and you restated...so you pretty much agreed with me...hmm...seems my logic was spot on...no?

So, where's your "proof"??

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 25 avril 2012 - 02:57 .