539 réponses à ce sujet

[daecath]

QwertyMusicMan wrote...

We're getting Extended Cut. Bioware is listening. They're working to improve ME3. What else could we want?

A new ending, instead of one that simply makes the bad ending longer. There is simply no way to fix the ending so long as they keep the starbrat in. It doesn't make sense in the universe they created (how does a VI appear in the form of a dead kid that the only one left alive that's actually seen is Shepard?), it violates what they've already established (synthetics will always destroy organics. Except the Geth. And EDI),

it completely changes the plot at the last second (not once was there any theme of synthetics vs. organics. The Geth/Quarian conflict was limited to the geths/quarians, and was never used as an illustration of a higher concepts of all synthetics vs. all organics).

It takes the role of protagonist away from Shepard and gives it to this character that was just introduced out of thin air, right at the end of the story. Shepard doesn't decide to stop the Reapers, it was starbrat. Shepard doesn't decide how to save the galaxy, that's starbrat too. Shepard might as well be a coin or a dart or a game of eeney meeney for all his/her importance at that point in the story.

And nothing they can do will fix that, short of invalidating it with something like IT, or getting rid of it completely. At best, they can make it a little more palatable, like pouring chocolate on top of crickets. It's still a bug underneath there, no matter how much you candy-coat it.

[Darthlawsuit]

Nah. I just stopped posting on Bioware forums. Now I am spreading the fact that Bioware has become a full blooded puppet of EA games and to not buy their products.

It became obvious to the retake movement that Bioware is dead and will never change. I look forward to their next flop that no one will buy.

[TheOptimist]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

What would Retake think was an acceptable EC? Or an unacceptable one?

Most likely a complete rewrite of the ending from Starchild on.  A sentiment I totally sympathize with, but is probably unfeasible.  And not just from an "artistic integrity" point of view.

At this point all we can really do is sit back and hope Bioware can MacGyver an ending most of us can be satisfied with out of the materials given.  Not optimistic, but maybe I'll be surprised.

Well, yeah. The question still is, what would it take to make folks satisfied? Retake never did seem to have a coherent critique -- anyone with any complaint was part of the movement.

Must've been a million topics on this, but I'll summarize.

1. Shepard is rather likely to have empirical proof that Starkid is wrong.  Shepard should be able to argue with Starkid and his insane troll logic, rather than accepting it without comment.  In theory, Shepard should also be able to change the beams specific effects based on that conversation. 

2. Starkid was poorly thought out and should be trashed altogether. (This one won't happen, but it was a serious concern)

3. The Normandy leaving with crewmates on board needs to be explained or retconned, because events as shown are completely out of character and make no sense.  In theory, it should also explain why the Normandy is severely damaged by the shockwave.

4. The various kinds of space magic and their effects need to be explored more in depth, as currently so little is known about what those beams actually accomplish that far too many different outcomes can be extrapolated.  In effect, there is too MUCH speculation as to what those beams and explosions do.

5.  There should be the possibility of an ending where Shepard reunites with crew and love interest.

6.  Why the lack of Mass Effect relays does not doom the galaxy to permanent isolation and/or civilizational death in many cases needs to be explained and shown in game.

7. An epilogue with the lasting effects of Shepard's choices discussed should be included, much like the orginal Dragon Age.

I think that covers it.

Edit: Oh, and 8. If the Normandy being marooned on an unknown planet is kept, it should be explained and shown that they are rescued/survive and certain members of the crew don't just die from starvation.

Modifié par TheOptimist, 20 avril 2012 - 02:59 .

[AlanC9]

daecath wrote...
There is simply no way to fix the ending so long as they keep the starbrat in. It doesn't make sense in the universe they created (how does a VI appear in the form of a dead kid that the only one left alive that's actually seen is Shepard?),

Huh? It's a psychic projection. Takes that form because the kid's already in Shepard's mind. Of course, we've never actually seen technology that can interact with someone's mind. Oh, wait.........

not once was there any theme of synthetics vs. organics.

Hmmm... you're telling me the Reapers vs. Organics thing doesn't count as synthetics vs. humans?

It takes the role of protagonist away from Shepard and gives it to this character that was just introduced out of thin air, right at the end of the story. Shepard doesn't decide to stop the Reapers, it was starbrat.

Dont be silly. Starbrat won't do anything that Shepard doesn't tell him to do. And if Shepard wants to just sit back and let the Reapers win, Starbrat lets it happen.

[Gatt9]

Midz wrote...

It is an industry and as such will follow the market as to where sales are .

Wether I or you like it sales are now mainly in phone apps and the money at much cheaper less intensive investment .

Even on consoles sales types are indicitive .

Then look at region sales where in the world thus type /design are most lucrative it is not where I think most believe it to be .

The numbers of sales per region per platform are easily available from search . look and make your own analysis .

With X box PSP etc PC became a niche now with phone app tablets that is being extended .

Game companies try to adapt to survive if they do not they die or become a small fringe .

Many talk of the market and talk of falling sales but fail to see that the market has and is changing .

The same screams were seen all they need is listen to the fans going back to boardgames with the same failure to see the market correctly.

and apology my poor english.

Not really.  Mobile sales are yet another one of the industries Myths they chase after.  Some game does really well,  and then the industry assumes that any game can do really well,  ignoring the fact that it was just a convergence of all of the right ingredients,  and not reproducable.  Like the Farmville wannabes,  or the Starcraft wannabes,  and so on.

Further,  if you do your research,  Farmville spends a ridiculous amount of money just to aquire a single customer,  it's a losing proposition.

This whole thing is like assuming that since Pirates of the Carribbean sold really well,  all you have to do is make a movie about priates and it'll make a billion dollars a movie too.  Except it doesn't work like that,  not for Hollywood,  not for gaming.

Mobile apps are only going to replace the handheld industry,  and nothing more.  That's all they are,  handhelds.  It was the perfect convergence of ubiquitous devices,  a new control scheme,  and game that appeals to all ages.  Not too terribly dissimiliar to what drove Wii sales,  novelty.

Further,  you really need to dig deep into those sales figures you're reading.  First,  VGChartz uses statistically questionable methods (Hence it's history of revising numbers.  Second,  many sites get a bit confused about what constitutes a sale,  many sites confuse the word "Shipped" with "Sold",  and similiarly confuse "Downloaded" with "Sold". 

There's nothing "Niche" here.  The mobile app market is no bigger than the market of the PSP in the long term.  That's all it is.  Tablets will not replace PC's,  or consoles,  they suffer from a severe lack of processing power,  and they will continue to do so because they're unable to dissipate any significant quantity of heat,  nor can they supply any significant amount of power to xPU's.  At their very,  very,  best,  they could be used as thin clients for a home server.

The market is changing.  Consoles are about to reach the end of a cycle,  and they'll fail.  Console-centric buisness plans will fail.  Publishers will fail.  Replaced by digital delivery systems and crowd funding.

Since you're a big fan of looking up numbers,  go look up the projection for the PC market.  It's now projected to be larger than all of the console markets combined in just a few years. 

The market's changing alright,  but not at all the way you think.

Modifié par Gatt9, 20 avril 2012 - 03:01 .

[jimbo32]

There are lots of Retakers who no longer post much on BSN. Maybe to get away from the non-stop trolling, or for a variety of other reasons.

Click on my sig and you'll find a fairly active Retake forum. Better forum software too.

[AlanC9]

Thanks, TheOptimist. Useful to have some actual content in the thread,

TheOptimist wrote...
1. Shepard is rather likely to have empirical proof that Starkid is wrong.  Shepard should be able to argue with Starkid and his insane troll logic, rather than accepting it without comment.  In theory, Shepard should also be able to change the beams specific effects based on that conversation.  

Assuming the beams actually can be used in any other fashion. Alien super-advanced technology doesn't have to work in a fashion the PC would like. Even if the Starkid thinks Shepard's got a point, it still doesn't necessarily make better options available. You can, and should, have the argument even if the choices don't change.

6.  Why the lack of Mass Effect relays does not doom the galaxy to permanent isolation and/or civilizational death in many cases needs to be explained and shown in game.

Civilizational death? I never quite figured out why people would assume this was a possibility. Even without relays, mass effect drives are awesomely fast. Much better than, say, Star Trek ships.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 avril 2012 - 03:15 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

Sero303 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

It died once they realized how stupid they were being. They didn't design the game, therefor they have no right to complain about how it went.

And don't say "i spent money so i can complain." you CHOSE to spend your money on a game THEY designed. Simple as that.

By that logic, you sir cannot ever complain about:

A movie you watched, in theater or on tv
A show you watched,
A sports game, your team the other team,
Hell a kids little league game!
Rap, country, hiphop, jazz etc etc etc any music, ever.
You can't even complain when you buy a freaking happy meal from Mcdonalds and they screw up the order! you paid for it! They made it!
By that logic you CHOSE to watch or listen to something THEY made, played, sang or did while you sat there and did nothing.

Don't get me wrong, you make a valid point, we ALL chose to spend money on the game, regardless of our opinion on the game itself. Just please don't be a hypocryte and pretend you're somehow better than everybody else. It only makes you look all the more foolish.

I'm not saying one can't complain...I comlpain about things that i don't like myself.
I'm just sayin that people shouldn't demand a change to something someone ELSE made.
Its not like we hired them to make us a game, they made a game for them so sell and we bought it.

[The Milky Waver]

 There's really nothing to do but wait now until the Extended cut releases. I can guaruntee you that it will be "revived" when that happens.

[Lewie]

The market is changing, look at how many people have purchased high end gaming pc's in the past 2 years even. Personally i know quite a few i don't need graphs but i have a really strong sense that gaming is changing way too quick and the reason is simply money. Companies (speculative) are just throwing out new mechanics, apps at an alarming rate. I say again 'alarming'. Motion activated gaming, voice activated gaming, phone (coughs) applicated gaming. It is so plain to see my son is allowed to play cod but its limited, and i talk to him about games because it will be a part of his future, he also started playing bastion which he absolutely loves. I want him to know what good games are and not just be swept along this wave of 'oh buy this just because it might be fun' and he will know the ethics behind all of this.

[Yajuu Omoi]

AlanC9 wrote...

Civilizational death? I never quite figured out why people would assume this was a possibility. Even without relays, mass effect drives are awesomely fast. Much better than, say, Star Trek ships.

In the game, it explains that even with the drive cores...it would take YEARS upon YEARS to travel between galaxies....most of the ships at the battle for earth aren't equiped to take care of a crew for that long...so...they'd die.

-The ENTIRE quarian race is there, can't last long enough to make it to a re-supply station.

-The majority of the Turian fleet is there, which is a very large chunk of the population...warships aren't made to accomidate a full crew for years.

-The krogans...need i say it? Genophage cured...reproduction rates back to norms...not enough food to endorse population boom.

-Asari, most were decimated on Thessia, rest stranded in Sol...again, warships not equiped to last with full crew.

-Salarians, they lose their fleet at earth...but majority of population still at their "homes" per say...they'll be fine...

-Drell? No where to be seen in game, no worries.

[Whereto]

I thank people for totally missing the point of retake. It was about getting a better ending, not a happy one, but one that made sense. Not all of them were civil, but not all of the pro-Enders were either. With out retake, I highly doubt you would see this EC at all. It got huge media coverage in the gaming world, some good, some bad, but it still got some. Whether you agreed with their methods or not, I would go as far to say, they are the reason we have the EC now.

I would also like to point out. Everyone calling retake children and people with no life, look at yourselves. Calling people that doesn't put you on a higher podium than them.

[thunderhawk862002]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

It died once they realized how stupid they were being. They didn't design the game, therefor they have no right to complain about how it went.

And don't say "i spent money so i can complain." you CHOSE to spend your money on a game THEY designed. Simple as that.

By that logic, you sir cannot ever complain about:

A movie you watched, in theater or on tv
A show you watched,
A sports game, your team the other team,
Hell a kids little league game!
Rap, country, hiphop, jazz etc etc etc any music, ever.
You can't even complain when you buy a freaking happy meal from Mcdonalds and they screw up the order! you paid for it! They made it!
By that logic you CHOSE to watch or listen to something THEY made, played, sang or did while you sat there and did nothing.

Don't get me wrong, you make a valid point, we ALL chose to spend money on the game, regardless of our opinion on the game itself. Just please don't be a hypocryte and pretend you're somehow better than everybody else. It only makes you look all the more foolish.

I'm not saying one can't complain...I comlpain about things that i don't like myself.
I'm just sayin that people shouldn't demand a change to something someone ELSE made.
Its not like we hired them to make us a game, they made a game for them so sell and we bought it.

I don't see why we can't demand it.  If they don't change it then there are some people who won't buy their products.  That's capitalism for you.  Technically EA hired them to make the game and if EA wants the endings changed BioWare can't refuse.  On the the flip side, if BioWare wanted to give new endings but EA said no then that's the end of that.   The one thing we can't do is force them to change it.

[daecath]

AlanC9 wrote...

daecath wrote...
There is simply no way to fix the ending so long as they keep the starbrat in. It doesn't make sense in the universe they created (how does a VI appear in the form of a dead kid that the only one left alive that's actually seen is Shepard?),

Huh? It's a psychic projection. Takes that form because the kid's already in Shepard's mind. Of course, we've never actually seen technology that can interact with someone's mind. Oh, wait.........

Never seen a technology that can read someone's mind. The beacons implanted images, the reapers you communicate with don't give any indication that they can read your mind, simply project a vision of themselves. The reapers always showed themselves as themselves, why not starbrat? it's possible, I'll grant, but doesn't seem very plausible to me.

AlanC9 wrote...

not once was there any theme of synthetics vs. organics.

Hmmm... you're telling me the Reapers vs. Organics thing doesn't count as synthetics vs. humans?

Nope, that counts as Reapers vs. Organics. The reapers were specifically created to stop the premise that synthetics destroy organics. So unless you're validating the "yo dawg" pictures that make fun of the catalyst for creating synthetics to stop organics from being destroyed by synthetics, this can't be used as justification for including the new theme of synthetics vs. organics.

AlanC9 wrote...

It takes the role of protagonist away from Shepard and gives it to this character that was just introduced out of thin air, right at the end of the story. Shepard doesn't decide to stop the Reapers, it was starbrat.

Dont be silly. Starbrat won't do anything that Shepard doesn't tell him to do. And if Shepard wants to just sit back and let the Reapers win, Starbrat lets it happen.

In every other choice in the rest of the story, it is always presented that Shepard is narrowing down the options to the few best, and then picking one (through the player's decision). This is the first and only time that I can think of when Shepard is given multiple choice options from someone else and is forced to choose one of them. If you were stuck in a Jigsaw style deathtrap, and your options were cut your arm off, cut your leg off, or wait for it to kill you, is that really your choice? The ending choice was created by the starbrat and forced on Shepard. Shepard doesn't even have the choice not to do anything (unless you the player decide to meta a fourth choice by turning off the game).

[Yajuu Omoi]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

It died once they realized how stupid they were being. They didn't design the game, therefor they have no right to complain about how it went.

And don't say "i spent money so i can complain." you CHOSE to spend your money on a game THEY designed. Simple as that.

By that logic, you sir cannot ever complain about:

A movie you watched, in theater or on tv
A show you watched,
A sports game, your team the other team,
Hell a kids little league game!
Rap, country, hiphop, jazz etc etc etc any music, ever.
You can't even complain when you buy a freaking happy meal from Mcdonalds and they screw up the order! you paid for it! They made it!
By that logic you CHOSE to watch or listen to something THEY made, played, sang or did while you sat there and did nothing.

Don't get me wrong, you make a valid point, we ALL chose to spend money on the game, regardless of our opinion on the game itself. Just please don't be a hypocryte and pretend you're somehow better than everybody else. It only makes you look all the more foolish.

I'm not saying one can't complain...I comlpain about things that i don't like myself.
I'm just sayin that people shouldn't demand a change to something someone ELSE made.
Its not like we hired them to make us a game, they made a game for them so sell and we bought it.

I don't see why we can't demand it.  If they don't change it then there are some people who won't buy their products.  That's capitalism for you.  Technically EA hired them to make the game and if EA wants the endings changed BioWare can't refuse.  On the the flip side, if BioWare wanted to give new endings but EA said no then that's the end of that.   The one thing we can't do is force them to change it.

Exactly, EA can make them change it. Not us, its not our place to say that the game THEY made for EA, doesn't fit our expectations...

Don't get me wrong, i'm pissed that they didn't live up to the things they said they'd do. I'm FURIOUS...but i'm not gonna tell them to change it...I'm just gonna wait till reviews are out on a game next time...and not expect soo much...

[alex13abc]

Darthlawsuit wrote...

Nah. I just stopped posting on Bioware forums. Now I am spreading the fact that Bioware has become a full blooded puppet of EA games and to not buy their products.

It became obvious to the retake movement that Bioware is dead and will never change. I look forward to their next flop that no one will buy.

Same

[Yajuu Omoi]

daecath wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

not once was there any theme of synthetics vs. organics.

Hmmm... you're telling me the Reapers vs. Organics thing doesn't count as synthetics vs. humans?

Nope, that counts as Reapers vs. Organics. The reapers were specifically created to stop the premise that synthetics destroy organics. So unless you're validating the "yo dawg" pictures that make fun of the catalyst for creating synthetics to stop organics from being destroyed by synthetics, this can't be used as justification for including the new theme of synthetics vs. organics.

How bout Geth vs Quarian?!? are you forgetting one of the BIGGEST events in the ME universe??? It was a theme created in ME1!! Continued in 2, and finalized in 3. I personally got geth and quarian to work together, therefor foiling starkids idea that synthetics and organics can't work together....cuz they're what helped shep GET to starkid...

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 20 avril 2012 - 03:39 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

What would Retake think was an acceptable EC? Or an unacceptable one?

Most likely a complete rewrite of the ending from Starchild on.  A sentiment I totally sympathize with, but is probably unfeasible.  And not just from an "artistic integrity" point of view.

At this point all we can really do is sit back and hope Bioware can MacGyver an ending most of us can be satisfied with out of the materials given.  Not optimistic, but maybe I'll be surprised.

Well, yeah. The question still is, what would it take to make folks satisfied? Retake never did seem to have a coherent critique -- anyone with any complaint was part of the movement.

At this point, there's nothing BioWare can do to make them happy. The loudest voices are screaming at BioWare to completely rewrite the entire ending - if not the entire game - just to suit them, and BioWare has said they're happy with what they have and will clarify what's in there. Until those voices understand that BioWare is going to do things THEIR way, regardless of how long their temper tantrums last, these boards will continue to be a cesspool of people ranting and raving and screaming. BioWare could give them all a million dollars, and they'd just yell that it wasn't in small bills like they wanted.

Gatt9 wrote...

A bunch of random drivel about everyone who disagrees with Retake being paid PR trolls or whatever, who really pays attention to Gatt9 at this point anyway?

C-O-N-SPIRACY!

[daecath]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

daecath wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

not once was there any theme of synthetics vs. organics.

Hmmm... you're telling me the Reapers vs. Organics thing doesn't count as synthetics vs. humans?

Nope, that counts as Reapers vs. Organics. The reapers were specifically created to stop the premise that synthetics destroy organics. So unless you're validating the "yo dawg" pictures that make fun of the catalyst for creating synthetics to stop organics from being destroyed by synthetics, this can't be used as justification for including the new theme of synthetics vs. organics.

How bout Geth vs Quarian?!? are you forgetting one of the BIGGEST events in the ME universe??? It was a theme created in ME1!! Continued in 2, and finalized in 3. I personally got geth and quarian to work together, therefor foiling starkids idea that synthetics and organics can't work together....cuz they're what helped shep GET to starkid...

Oh right, how could I forget them. So the geth vs. the quarians, let's see. The catalyst's premise is that: "The created will always rebel against their creators." And the geth proved this when the quarlians attacted them and they defended themselves. Oh wait, that's not really "turning against their creators" now is it? In fact it's really more the other way around. So the only two examples we have in the game of their premise of synthetics vs. organics, and one was the innocent victims, the other the supposed solution to that problem.

[mauro2222]

TheOptimist wrote...
Could be we're doing what was requested of us, and waiting to see what's IN the Extended Cut before making rash judgements and deciding on the next step.  But that would mean quite a few of us are reasonable, rationale fans who just want our concerns addressed, and that can't be right...

Lies, lies, lies!

[thunderhawk862002]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

What would Retake think was an acceptable EC? Or an unacceptable one?

Most likely a complete rewrite of the ending from Starchild on.  A sentiment I totally sympathize with, but is probably unfeasible.  And not just from an "artistic integrity" point of view.

At this point all we can really do is sit back and hope Bioware can MacGyver an ending most of us can be satisfied with out of the materials given.  Not optimistic, but maybe I'll be surprised.

Well, yeah. The question still is, what would it take to make folks satisfied? Retake never did seem to have a coherent critique -- anyone with any complaint was part of the movement.

At this point, there's nothing BioWare can do to make them happy. The loudest voices are screaming at BioWare to completely rewrite the entire ending - if not the entire game - just to suit them, and BioWare has said they're happy with what they have and will clarify what's in there. Until those voices understand that BioWare is going to do things THEIR way, regardless of how long their temper tantrums last, these boards will continue to be a cesspool of people ranting and raving and screaming. BioWare could give them all a million dollars, and they'd just yell that it wasn't in small bills like they wanted.

Gatt9 wrote...

A bunch of random drivel about everyone who disagrees with Retake being paid PR trolls or whatever, who really pays attention to Gatt9 at this point anyway?

C-O-N-SPIRACY!

You're right some people will never be happy.  It will be EA/BioWare's job to figure out how big that contingent is.  They made a smart move by releasing free DLC that clarifies the endings first.  That will make some people happy and bring them into the fold again.  Based on gameplay statistics, they'll either decides that was enough people to make happy and cut the rest as a loss, or they'lll do something else to try and win more people back.  My guess would be either free or paid additional endings.

But it's all going to come down to money and how many ME3 players they lost do they want to come back.  Which is something only EA/BioWare can know. 

Modifié par thunderhawk862002, 20 avril 2012 - 03:57 .

[sabata2]

lillitheris wrote...

classy. First loudly demand that people “give the EC a chance” (the EC you wouldn't have without said entitled whiners), and then when they do, start with the snide commentary about them not being around.

Truly…classy.

Just reposting this, as it needs reposting.

[daecath]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

What would Retake think was an acceptable EC? Or an unacceptable one?

Most likely a complete rewrite of the ending from Starchild on.  A sentiment I totally sympathize with, but is probably unfeasible.  And not just from an "artistic integrity" point of view.

At this point all we can really do is sit back and hope Bioware can MacGyver an ending most of us can be satisfied with out of the materials given.  Not optimistic, but maybe I'll be surprised.

Well, yeah. The question still is, what would it take to make folks satisfied? Retake never did seem to have a coherent critique -- anyone with any complaint was part of the movement.

At this point, there's nothing BioWare can do to make them happy. The loudest voices are screaming at BioWare to completely rewrite the entire ending - if not the entire game - just to suit them, and BioWare has said they're happy with what they have and will clarify what's in there. Until those voices understand that BioWare is going to do things THEIR way, regardless of how long their temper tantrums last, these boards will continue to be a cesspool of people ranting and raving and screaming. BioWare could give them all a million dollars, and they'd just yell that it wasn't in small bills like they wanted.

The problem is that there are a lot of people who have their own ideas about what the problems are. Rather like the occupy movement. We're all upset, but we don't all agree on why or what to do about it.

However, here's the way I see it. There are a few main groups. Group one are those that are fine with it the way it is. We can ignore them because they've already got what they want, and if they do nothing, they will still have what they want.

Group two are the ones that want "clarity and closure". They see plot holes, and want them fixed. Supposedly, the Extended Cut DLC will address their issues, but there are plenty of ways to provide "clarity and closure".

Which brings me to the final group. The ones that see the deeper problems with the ending. They're the ones that recognize that the lack of "clarity and closure", all the plotholes, and everything else wrong with the ending, comes from the fact that BioWare violated basic rules of writing good literature. You don't introduce a new character in the last minutes of a 150 hour story. You don't introduce an entirely new premise in the last few minutes of a 150 hour story.
You don't make your new character the solution to all your new problems introduced in your new plot that you just introduced. You don't ignore your previously established themes, your previously established rules, or your previously established tone. And if you are going to make certain promises, such as "no ABC endings", "wildly different endings", seeing the results of your choices, etc., you should live up to those promises.

So, if BioWare decides to try and satisfy the third group by providing an ending that is in keeping with the themes, plot, and rules established in their story so far, and provides multiple, wildly different endings where your previous choices matter, then they've satisfied group 3. They've also satisfied group 2 because they have provided an ending that doesn't contain plot holes, that has clarity, and provides closure. And they've satisfied group one because they have the choice of keeping their original ending, or trying the new ones. Everybody will be for the most part satisfied. There will still be some who aren't 100% satisfied, but they'll certainly be more satisfied than they are now.

[Dridengx]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Well they achieved their goal. Bioware are releasing the extended cut that will provide more closure.

...totally what the movement wanted:?

What did they want? That was the impression they gave me, more closure.

That was the impression they gave a lot of people including Bioware

[CARL_DF90]

hippanda wrote...

They're in the campaign discussion/spoilers forum.

This.