539 réponses à ce sujet

[Sero303]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

It died once they realized how stupid they were being. They didn't design the game, therefor they have no right to complain about how it went.

And don't say "i spent money so i can complain." you CHOSE to spend your money on a game THEY designed. Simple as that.

By that logic, you sir cannot ever complain about:

A movie you watched, in theater or on tv
A show you watched,
A sports game, your team the other team,
Hell a kids little league game!
Rap, country, hiphop, jazz etc etc etc any music, ever.
You can't even complain when you buy a freaking happy meal from Mcdonalds and they screw up the order! you paid for it! They made it!
By that logic you CHOSE to watch or listen to something THEY made, played, sang or did while you sat there and did nothing.

Don't get me wrong, you make a valid point, we ALL chose to spend money on the game, regardless of our opinion on the game itself. Just please don't be a hypocryte and pretend you're somehow better than everybody else. It only makes you look all the more foolish.

I'm not saying one can't complain...I comlpain about things that i don't like myself.
I'm just sayin that people shouldn't demand a change to something someone ELSE made.
Its not like we hired them to make us a game, they made a game for them so sell and we bought it.

I don't see why we can't demand it.  If they don't change it then there are some people who won't buy their products.  That's capitalism for you.  Technically EA hired them to make the game and if EA wants the endings changed BioWare can't refuse.  On the the flip side, if BioWare wanted to give new endings but EA said no then that's the end of that.   The one thing we can't do is force them to change it.

Exactly, EA can make them change it. Not us, its not our place to say that the game THEY made for EA, doesn't fit our expectations...

Don't get me wrong, i'm pissed that they didn't live up to the things they said they'd do. I'm FURIOUS...but i'm not gonna tell them to change it...I'm just gonna wait till reviews are out on a game next time...and not expect soo much...

Our expectations were raised BY BioWare, so that is their own fault that they failed, and when someone fails on a massive level like that it is expected that they fix it.

I will grant you that all of us our, got our expectations maybe even higher than BioWare thought, but the third game in a trilogy? Any fan, diehard or casual isn't going to wait for reviews, they either go out and buy it within the first few days of the release, or pre-ordered it.

That doesn't mean I won't get the new DLC, or even try out any future Mass Effect games, I just hope they listen to their fans (you know, their marketed consumer base, they ones they target) and give us what we want ( the key to any good product, give the people what they want).

[SalsaDMA]

Gatt9 wrote...

Actually, there was a concerted and highly orchestrated effort to drive most unhappy people out.

If you go back through the threads you'll find...

-There are a small set of names that appear in defense of EA, they are present in each topic.

-There's a pattern to the names, each set focuses on specific issues and doesn't appear initially to take on issues that are handled by the other names. (Origin, Endings, FTC, BBB, Retake)

-Those names are generally not found posting outside of appearing to handle hot topics, when they do, the information posted at times creates contradictions, as if the intent was just to establish the username, not discuss things, and little attention was paid to making sure the things they discuss were even possible.

-When one of the usernames gets in trouble, and it's arguements caving, it's not uncommon for another one to suddenly appear to draw fire.

-Often the usernames work in tandem, with one taking the role of belligerence to flame someone who is negative, with the intent to discredit them, while the other tries to present supportive arguements that are often factually incorrect if one investigates the statements. Characteristics of a community manipulation tactic originally used during the Day Trader craze to shift stock prices.

-Quite often the usernames will work to derail the thread in order to get it closed. Either through trying to redirect the topic to some less damaging discussion, or should that fail, by trying to bait it into devolving into a flame war. Especially used when the topic is something the username cannot rationally argue against. Again, a community manipulation tactic from the Day Trader craze designed to insure the information that they don't want seen is quickly stifled.

I've no idea who or where it was orchestrated from, I'm not saying EA or Bioware had anything to do with it. I'm just saying someone(s) made a careful effort to drive out anyone who was concerned.  It's just as possible it was a grassroots counter by fanatics,  or a covert effort by some of the Gaming Journalists.  Whoever it was,  was working together.

Too bad they will fail, look at the groups who tried to reform the movie or music industry, and whether they were successful. Ultimatly, the industry will decide to change on it's own, when it feels like it, and anyone trying to force the change will swiftly become irrelevant to the discussion.

Should have stuck to mass effect 3's ending alone, they might have actually achieved their goal than

I don't think you realize the extent of the issue, this is years of frustration with the gaming industry in general boiling over, and I doubt highly it's anywhere near done. Mainly because sales are dropping by major percentages month after month.

The Industry isn't an unstoppable powerhouse, it's very dependent on it's population, and it does not have resources to withstand even a short term customer rebellion. Given the numbers I've seen, it's unlikely EA, or any other company (except Activision), could last much more than 6 months of a staring contest. Their revenue streams and resourcers are that fragile.

The Gaming Press is even less stable, it's only as viable as Gamers allow it to be, and given that most gamers feel the Gaming Press is now just PR for companies, I seriously question their ability to survive for much longer. IMO, their pro-publishers stance just bought them a fast ticket to insolvency.

It's post like yours, that make me wish for a thumbs up button in here

[SalsaDMA]

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...
If it is, I'll do a little jig because I've seen enough threads involving billboards and cupcakes and people who need group therapy for one lifetime. 

.Odd...

The "anti-Retakers" You, AJ, Draggun', Tazz etc are all E-psycologists. Strange. I dont remember anyone soliciting analysis and yet you all seem to think that anyone who disagrees with the "artistic vision"™ are not only stupid but also need psychiatric help. Did you people go to the same E-psych academy together? 

Id say its either projection or a complete inability to argue your case coherently. Most likely a combination of both. But do go on. It makes you look precisely what you are.

What's is there to disagree with?  It's their Intellectual property.

If they want to run their brand and various IPs into the ground, it's their prerogative. Just don't expect those of us wanting quality story-telling to supply our money to them while they are doing so. I have yet to purchase ME3 or DA2, and as things are looking I doubt I will anytime soon, if ever. Since that be default means no DLC sales to me either by inclusion, they're loosing plenty of cash from me compared to if thye had produced quality products instead. As the web clearly shows, I am not the only one thinking so.

Instead of making money from quality games, like they got famous for, they now leak consumers due to shoddy products and reckless PR.

Sometimes, when I look at their PR shenanigans, I wonder if they never try to stop and look themselves in the mirror and question themselves how it will look to the people they are supposedly trying to communicate with.

[fatbabygirl]

The aftermath of the battle (but not the war) = EA share price is now 14.80
as I write this

[Mylia Stenetch]

fatbabygirl wrote...

The aftermath of the battle (but not the war) = EA share price is now 14.80
as I write this

EA stock prices are not taking a hit cause of ReTake. This has been happening since Nov '11 (the recent drop). Also compounded with the poor sales in Q2 and layoffs rumours would hurt the stock more than ME3.

[Yajuu Omoi]

Sero303 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Exactly, EA can make them change it. Not us, its not our place to say that the game THEY made for EA, doesn't fit our expectations...

Don't get me wrong, i'm pissed that they didn't live up to the things they said they'd do. I'm FURIOUS...but i'm not gonna tell them to change it...I'm just gonna wait till reviews are out on a game next time...and not expect soo much...

Our expectations were raised BY BioWare, so that is their own fault that they failed, and when someone fails on a massive level like that it is expected that they fix it.

I will grant you that all of us our, got our expectations maybe even higher than BioWare thought, but the third game in a trilogy? Any fan, diehard or casual isn't going to wait for reviews, they either go out and buy it within the first few days of the release, or pre-ordered it.

That doesn't mean I won't get the new DLC, or even try out any future Mass Effect games, I just hope they listen to their fans (you know, their marketed consumer base, they ones they target) and give us what we want ( the key to any good product, give the people what they want).

I agree completely, all i'm saying is that its not our place to demand the change...
I fully believe that they made a HUGE mistake with the ending, but if they choose to not change it (like they did) i can't say anything against it...

[thunderhawk862002]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Exactly, EA can make them change it. Not us, its not our place to say that the game THEY made for EA, doesn't fit our expectations...

Don't get me wrong, i'm pissed that they didn't live up to the things they said they'd do. I'm FURIOUS...but i'm not gonna tell them to change it...I'm just gonna wait till reviews are out on a game next time...and not expect soo much...

Our expectations were raised BY BioWare, so that is their own fault that they failed, and when someone fails on a massive level like that it is expected that they fix it.

I will grant you that all of us our, got our expectations maybe even higher than BioWare thought, but the third game in a trilogy? Any fan, diehard or casual isn't going to wait for reviews, they either go out and buy it within the first few days of the release, or pre-ordered it.

That doesn't mean I won't get the new DLC, or even try out any future Mass Effect games, I just hope they listen to their fans (you know, their marketed consumer base, they ones they target) and give us what we want ( the key to any good product, give the people what they want).

I agree completely, all i'm saying is that its not our place to demand the change...
I fully believe that they made a HUGE mistake with the ending, but if they choose to not change it (like they did) i can't say anything against it...

Demand, yes.  Force, no.  It's simple.  Either you change the product in this way or I won't buy anything else from your company. That's the consumer telling the company what they want.  Sony, release a kinect style product or I will go to microsoft.  Samsung, release a tablet with front and back cameras or I'll go to apple.    Consumers make demands all the time.  Don't you remember the Sun Chips fiasco?  I won't buy your sunchips unless the bags are quieter.

[Yajuu Omoi]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Exactly, EA can make them change it. Not us, its not our place to say that the game THEY made for EA, doesn't fit our expectations...

Don't get me wrong, i'm pissed that they didn't live up to the things they said they'd do. I'm FURIOUS...but i'm not gonna tell them to change it...I'm just gonna wait till reviews are out on a game next time...and not expect soo much...

Our expectations were raised BY BioWare, so that is their own fault that they failed, and when someone fails on a massive level like that it is expected that they fix it.

I will grant you that all of us our, got our expectations maybe even higher than BioWare thought, but the third game in a trilogy? Any fan, diehard or casual isn't going to wait for reviews, they either go out and buy it within the first few days of the release, or pre-ordered it.

That doesn't mean I won't get the new DLC, or even try out any future Mass Effect games, I just hope they listen to their fans (you know, their marketed consumer base, they ones they target) and give us what we want ( the key to any good product, give the people what they want).

I agree completely, all i'm saying is that its not our place to demand the change...
I fully believe that they made a HUGE mistake with the ending, but if they choose to not change it (like they did) i can't say anything against it...

Demand, yes.  Force, no.  It's simple.  Either you change the product in this way or I won't buy anything else from your company. That's the consumer telling the company what they want.  Sony, release a kinect style product or I will go to microsoft.  Samsung, release a tablet with front and back cameras or I'll go to apple.    Consumers make demands all the time.  Don't you remember the Sun Chips fiasco?  I won't buy your sunchips unless the bags are quieter.

Wow...i think you're overestimating your power dude.
Consumers don't change current and EXISTING products...they give feedback to change how NEW products act/look/behave/etc.
We don;t change an already created product. We change the NEXT one.

ME3 is obviously already made, therefor a created product, BW and EA failed to make a product that satisfied their customers, so their NEXT product will be different. Get he idea?

EDIT: giving an ultimatum like you did multiple times, is an attempt to force a change. Demanding something to change is also an attempt to force a change. so your first two statements are completely contradictory.

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 20 avril 2012 - 07:24 .

[AJRimmsey]

i want the name of the person at bioware who at a meeting said >

"i have a great idea,lets tell the fans they are an integral part of the development"

and the name of the arse who replied >

"great idea,it will make the fans feel like being part of the game"


i also want pictures of thier faces when they realised some fans took it literaly and thought they were part of the development team.

[Habs25]

I'll read its eulogy with great pleasure.

[thunderhawk862002]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Exactly, EA can make them change it. Not us, its not our place to say that the game THEY made for EA, doesn't fit our expectations...

Don't get me wrong, i'm pissed that they didn't live up to the things they said they'd do. I'm FURIOUS...but i'm not gonna tell them to change it...I'm just gonna wait till reviews are out on a game next time...and not expect soo much...

Our expectations were raised BY BioWare, so that is their own fault that they failed, and when someone fails on a massive level like that it is expected that they fix it.

I will grant you that all of us our, got our expectations maybe even higher than BioWare thought, but the third game in a trilogy? Any fan, diehard or casual isn't going to wait for reviews, they either go out and buy it within the first few days of the release, or pre-ordered it.

That doesn't mean I won't get the new DLC, or even try out any future Mass Effect games, I just hope they listen to their fans (you know, their marketed consumer base, they ones they target) and give us what we want ( the key to any good product, give the people what they want).

I agree completely, all i'm saying is that its not our place to demand the change...
I fully believe that they made a HUGE mistake with the ending, but if they choose to not change it (like they did) i can't say anything against it...

Demand, yes.  Force, no.  It's simple.  Either you change the product in this way or I won't buy anything else from your company. That's the consumer telling the company what they want.  Sony, release a kinect style product or I will go to microsoft.  Samsung, release a tablet with front and back cameras or I'll go to apple.    Consumers make demands all the time.  Don't you remember the Sun Chips fiasco?  I won't buy your sunchips unless the bags are quieter.

Wow...i think you're overestimating your power dude.
Consumers don't change current and EXISTING products...they give feedback to change how NEW products act/look/behave/etc.
We don;t change an already created product. We change the NEXT one.

ME3 is obviously already made, therefor a created product, BW and EA failed to make a product that satisfied their customers, so their NEXT product will be different. Get he idea?

EDIT: giving an ultimatum like you did multiple times, is an attempt to force a change. Demanding something to change is also an attempt to force a change. so your first two statements are completely contradictory.

Broken Steel ring a bell? How about updates to software and apps?  ME3 is an existing product yes.  But DLC is added all the time.  It is not a static product.  The DLC is a product itself.  So I have no idea where you are coming from.  They are already changing the product by adding clarification DLC.  The DLC IS there next product.  Do you think the first planned product was going to be the clarification DLC or the Aria DLC?  So yes we can demand they change things because the change comes in the form of DLC... a product.  Plus if ME3 is a GOTY candidate it makes sense that they would to some sort of special edition anyways which would be another next product.

Is it an attempt to force change? Yes.  But BioWare has the ability to say no.  So no it's not contradictory.  

[Rotkaepchen]

[quote]Gatt9 wrote...

Actually, there was a concerted and highly orchestrated effort to drive most unhappy people out.

If you go back through the threads you'll find...

-There are a small set of names that appear in defense of EA, they are present in each topic.

-There's a pattern to the names, each set focuses on specific issues and doesn't appear initially to take on issues that are handled by the other names. (Origin, Endings, FTC, BBB, Retake)

-Those names are generally not found posting outside of appearing to handle hot topics, when they do, the information posted at times creates contradictions, as if the intent was just to establish the username, not discuss things, and little attention was paid to making sure the things they discuss were even possible.

-When one of the usernames gets in trouble, and it's arguements caving, it's not uncommon for another one to suddenly appear to draw fire.

-Often the usernames work in tandem, with one taking the role of belligerence to flame someone who is negative, with the intent to discredit them, while the other tries to present supportive arguements that are often factually incorrect if one investigates the statements. Characteristics of a community manipulation tactic originally used during the Day Trader craze to shift stock prices.

-Quite often the usernames will work to derail the thread in order to get it closed. Either through trying to redirect the topic to some less damaging discussion, or should that fail, by trying to bait it into devolving into a flame war. Especially used when the topic is something the username cannot rationally argue against. Again, a community manipulation tactic from the Day Trader craze designed to insure the information that they don't want seen is quickly stifled.

I've no idea who or where it was orchestrated from, I'm not saying EA or Bioware had anything to do with it. I'm just saying someone(s) made a careful effort to drive out anyone who was concerned.  It's just as possible it was a grassroots counter by fanatics,  or a covert effort by some of the Gaming Journalists.  Whoever it was,  was working together.

[quote]Too bad they will fail, look at the groups who tried to reform the movie or music industry, and whether they were successful. Ultimatly, the industry will decide to change on it's own, when it feels like it, and anyone trying to force the change will swiftly become irrelevant to the discussion.

Should have stuck to mass effect 3's ending alone, they might have actually achieved their goal than[/quote]

I don't think you realize the extent of the issue, this is years of frustration with the gaming industry in general boiling over, and I doubt highly it's anywhere near done. Mainly because sales are dropping by major percentages month after month.

The Industry isn't an unstoppable powerhouse, it's very dependent on it's population, and it does not have resources to withstand even a short term customer rebellion. Given the numbers I've seen, it's unlikely EA, or any other company (except Activision), could last much more than 6 months of a staring contest. Their revenue streams and resourcers are that fragile.

The Gaming Press is even less stable, it's only as viable as Gamers allow it to be, and given that most gamers feel the Gaming Press is now just PR for companies, I seriously question their ability to survive for much longer. IMO, their pro-publishers stance just bought them a fast ticket to insolvency.[/quote]

[/quote]

I noticed the very same behaviour. They always come in pairs - I thought at first they were just plain b-i-o-d-r-o-n-e-s (I spell it because is being automatically replaced with stars), but their attacks were just to coordinated, at times even with Mr. Presley. So I figured they have to be employees for €A, BW or some hired PR company.

Modifié par Rotkaepchen, 20 avril 2012 - 07:40 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Demand, yes.  Force, no.  It's simple.  Either you change the product in this way or I won't buy anything else from your company. That's the consumer telling the company what they want.  Sony, release a kinect style product or I will go to microsoft.  Samsung, release a tablet with front and back cameras or I'll go to apple.    Consumers make demands all the time.  Don't you remember the Sun Chips fiasco?  I won't buy your sunchips unless the bags are quieter.

Wow...i think you're overestimating your power dude.
Consumers don't change current and EXISTING products...they give feedback to change how NEW products act/look/behave/etc.
We don;t change an already created product. We change the NEXT one.

ME3 is obviously already made, therefor a created product, BW and EA failed to make a product that satisfied their customers, so their NEXT product will be different. Get he idea?

EDIT: giving an ultimatum like you did multiple times, is an attempt to force a change. Demanding something to change is also an attempt to force a change. so your first two statements are completely contradictory.

Broken Steel ring a bell? How about updates to software and apps?  ME3 is an existing product yes.  But DLC is added all the time.  It is not a static product.  The DLC is a product itself.  So I have no idea where you are coming from.  They are already changing the product by adding clarification DLC.  The DLC IS there next product.  Do you think the first planned product was going to be the clarification DLC or the Aria DLC?  So yes we can demand they change things because the change comes in the form of DLC... a product.  Plus if ME3 is a GOTY candidate it makes sense that they would to some sort of special edition anyways which would be another next product.

Is it an attempt to force change? Yes.  But BioWare has the ability to say no.  So no it's not contradictory.  

Exactly, listen to yourself, DLC is ADDED, does not re-write pre existing content.

And your comment was "demand, Yes. Force, No." that contradicts itself, to demand a change is to attempt to force one, therefore you are trying to force it. and you JUST said not to force it.

[AlanC9]

Gatt9 wrote...

Actually, there was a concerted and highly orchestrated effort to drive most unhappy people out.

If you go back through the threads you'll find...

-There are a small set of names that appear in defense of EA, they are present in each topic.

-There's a pattern to the names, each set focuses on specific issues and doesn't appear initially to take on issues that are handled by the other names. (Origin, Endings, FTC, BBB, Retake)

-Those names are generally not found posting outside of appearing to handle hot topics, when they do, the information posted at times creates contradictions, as if the intent was just to establish the username, not discuss things, and little attention was paid to making sure the things they discuss were even possible.

-When one of the usernames gets in trouble, and it's arguements caving, it's not uncommon for another one to suddenly appear to draw fire.

-Often the usernames work in tandem, with one taking the role of belligerence to flame someone who is negative, with the intent to discredit them, while the other tries to present supportive arguements that are often factually incorrect if one investigates the statements. Characteristics of a community manipulation tactic originally used during the Day Trader craze to shift stock prices.[/

-Quite often the usernames will work to derail the thread in order to get it closed. Either through trying to redirect the topic to some less damaging discussion, or should that fail, by trying to bait it into devolving into a flame war. Especially used when the topic is something the username cannot rationally argue against. Again, a community manipulation tactic from the Day Trader craze designed to insure the information that they don't want seen is quickly stifled.

This would be an awful lot more convincing if you named names and linked to examples. Use a sock puppet if you're worried about getting banned for it.

[thunderhawk862002]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Demand, yes.  Force, no.  It's simple.  Either you change the product in this way or I won't buy anything else from your company. That's the consumer telling the company what they want.  Sony, release a kinect style product or I will go to microsoft.  Samsung, release a tablet with front and back cameras or I'll go to apple.    Consumers make demands all the time.  Don't you remember the Sun Chips fiasco?  I won't buy your sunchips unless the bags are quieter.

Wow...i think you're overestimating your power dude.
Consumers don't change current and EXISTING products...they give feedback to change how NEW products act/look/behave/etc.
We don;t change an already created product. We change the NEXT one.

ME3 is obviously already made, therefor a created product, BW and EA failed to make a product that satisfied their customers, so their NEXT product will be different. Get he idea?

EDIT: giving an ultimatum like you did multiple times, is an attempt to force a change. Demanding something to change is also an attempt to force a change. so your first two statements are completely contradictory.

Broken Steel ring a bell? How about updates to software and apps?  ME3 is an existing product yes.  But DLC is added all the time.  It is not a static product.  The DLC is a product itself.  So I have no idea where you are coming from.  They are already changing the product by adding clarification DLC.  The DLC IS there next product.  Do you think the first planned product was going to be the clarification DLC or the Aria DLC?  So yes we can demand they change things because the change comes in the form of DLC... a product.  Plus if ME3 is a GOTY candidate it makes sense that they would to some sort of special edition anyways which would be another next product.

Is it an attempt to force change? Yes.  But BioWare has the ability to say no.  So no it's not contradictory.  

Exactly, listen to yourself, DLC is ADDED, does not re-write pre existing content.

And your comment was "demand, Yes. Force, No." that contradicts itself, to demand a change is to attempt to force one, therefore you are trying to force it. and you JUST said not to force it.

Like I said.   What does Broken Steel do?  Change it from the character dying into the character living to continue on the journey.  Who says DLC can't rewrite the ending?  Asura's Wrath is releasing the TRUE ending via paid DLC.  I don't support IT theory but that's exactly what BioWare could do to change the ending without rewriting it.  Bam you're argument is invalid.

BioWare like it or not is a company.  If they don't make the changes we want we are free to walk.  If they choose not to listen to our demands then we don't have to buy their products.  They are not an artist who just paints for the fun of it.  They are there to make a products for consumers to buy.  BioWare is free to do whatever it or EA wants.  There's no way to force them to do anything.

[nrcrane]

I think most of retake stays in the campaign spoiler section of the forums.

[WardyLion]

All this smug talk about "Retake Mass Effect" fizzling out is really starting to get on my you-know-whats!

It's been said already but two of the three key "leaders" of the movement are currently in hospital right now after a car-accident. Maybe we've just quietened down to show some respect, y'know?

I wont be fobbed off with the turd-polishing that the EC appears to be - I will fight until BioWare / EA send someone round to my house to kill me!

I really shouldn't be allowed on the 'net when drunk...

[Sero303]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

Demand, yes.  Force, no.  It's simple.  Either you change the product in this way or I won't buy anything else from your company. That's the consumer telling the company what they want.  Sony, release a kinect style product or I will go to microsoft.  Samsung, release a tablet with front and back cameras or I'll go to apple.    Consumers make demands all the time.  Don't you remember the Sun Chips fiasco?  I won't buy your sunchips unless the bags are quieter.

Wow...i think you're overestimating your power dude.
Consumers don't change current and EXISTING products...they give feedback to change how NEW products act/look/behave/etc.
We don;t change an already created product. We change the NEXT one.

ME3 is obviously already made, therefor a created product, BW and EA failed to make a product that satisfied their customers, so their NEXT product will be different. Get he idea?

EDIT: giving an ultimatum like you did multiple times, is an attempt to force a change. Demanding something to change is also an attempt to force a change. so your first two statements are completely contradictory.

Broken Steel ring a bell? How about updates to software and apps?  ME3 is an existing product yes.  But DLC is added all the time.  It is not a static product.  The DLC is a product itself.  So I have no idea where you are coming from.  They are already changing the product by adding clarification DLC.  The DLC IS there next product.  Do you think the first planned product was going to be the clarification DLC or the Aria DLC?  So yes we can demand they change things because the change comes in the form of DLC... a product.  Plus if ME3 is a GOTY candidate it makes sense that they would to some sort of special edition anyways which would be another next product.

Is it an attempt to force change? Yes.  But BioWare has the ability to say no.  So no it's not contradictory.  

Exactly, listen to yourself, DLC is ADDED, does not re-write pre existing content.

And your comment was "demand, Yes. Force, No." that contradicts itself, to demand a change is to attempt to force one, therefore you are trying to force it. and you JUST said not to force it.

I don't think anyone is saying REwrite it, ( although I will admit in the past that is exactly what I said before ) but there are ways to end the story on the high note, the Indoc. Theory is one, ( one I might add I would much prefer ). But the idea of "adding" to an already BAD idea, is the equvalient of saying "let's add more of these supposed watertight compartments to the Titanic!" its still going to sink! Rearrange the furtinure all you want, the boat is going down!

BTW -
"Demand" = protests, and petitions, outcrys of mercy etc etc
"Force" = is taking hostages...
FYI

[The Confidence-Man]

Nobody cares anymore, about "retaking" the ending or the game in general. It's old news. People have blasted through the game and moved on.

[thunderhawk862002]

The Confidence-Man wrote...

Nobody cares anymore, about "retaking" the ending or the game in general. It's old news. People have blasted through the game and moved on.

It seems you cared enough to post.  

[Mad Pig]

i hope so

[NOD-INFORMER37]

I heard that some of the group left because they were satisfied with the 'Extended Cut" Bioware plans to release and the rest were banned from the forums. :/

Either way though, I kinda hope the the movement is still alive and kickin'. I havent beat the game yet so I havent seen the ending myself(no spoilers please) but I'm convinced everyone complaining arent just "entitled", they have a good reason to be concerned.

[RACDB]

Hope so. Too much wasted energy and effort has been put into whining by the retakers.