254 réponses à ce sujet

[moviebuff3000]

The Reapers were trying to brainwash Shepard to not destroy them so they put in his mind that the Illusive Man was right. The Reapers want Shepard to either join with them or leave them alone, not destroy them so telling Shepard that destroying them is a Renegade choice is their plan. The Reapers put in Shepards mind what would be the results of his/her actions even if they didnt make sense. Shepard acting not his/her self is because they are trying to brainwash him/her and Shepard is tired from everything that has happened so it is easy for the Reapers to do this. Why hasnt anyone figured this out yet?

Modifié par moviebuff3000, 19 avril 2012 - 10:25 .

[KingZayd]

Nightwriter wrote...

OP doesn't even mention that Shepard fails to ask the Catalyst why he is taking vent kid's form.

Shepard should have reacted to this. Big time. Only way the Catalyst could know the vent kid's form is to read it from Shepard's mind. Shepard should deduce this immediately, and it should inspire questions, if not outright suspicion. Anything that can read your mind might be able to influence it, too. It might be able to deceive you. And as soon as it announces that it is the commander of the Reapers, the creator of the cycle, and thus probably the founder of indoctrination, the caution should really kick into gear.

Oh, but Shepard did react. Consider this: If the Starchild hadn't appeared to us as the Starchild, but rather as StarSovereign or StarHarbinger, how differently do you think people would have chosen? Such a simple trick, and yet it works so well.

Modifié par KingZayd, 19 avril 2012 - 10:26 .

[PsyrenY]

a.m.p wrote...


I'm not even bringing up the FTL ramming, I'll instead bring up the forgotten fact that the ciradel controls the relay network.

Didn't you disable that functionality in ME1? The Reapers didn't make use of it after all; they could have locked your entire fleet out of Sol, forcing them to arrive piecemeal at varying FTL speeds - easy pickings.

[a.m.p]

Optimystic_X wrote...

a.m.p wrote...


I'm not even bringing up the FTL ramming, I'll instead bring up the forgotten fact that the ciradel controls the relay network.

Didn't you disable that functionality in ME1? The Reapers didn't make use of it after all; they could have locked your entire fleet out of Sol, forcing them to arrive piecemeal at varying FTL speeds - easy pickings.

Where is my codex entry that says that now that the crucible is out of the picture I can't reenable it?

[PsyrenY]

a.m.p wrote...

Where is my codex entry that says that now that the crucible is out of the picture I can't reenable it?

How would you? Vigil tells you his program is temporary.

(and that's assuming the "relay network control" is even in the same place, or accessible by organic operator.)

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 19 avril 2012 - 10:31 .

[SaladinDheonqar]

He was clearly high on whatever Hudson and Walters were doing when they wrote the ending.

[Tapkomet]

Conversation with my Shepard would go as follows:
Kid: I control the Reapers
Shep: You mean like control them directly, not lead?
Kid: Yes.
Shep: This statement is false.
*All Reapers overload and become inert*

[SolidisusSnake1]

Animositisomina wrote...

"I... don't know."

[Nightwriter]

KingZayd wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

OP doesn't even mention that Shepard fails to ask the Catalyst why he is taking vent kid's form.

Shepard should have reacted to this. Big time. Only way the Catalyst could know the vent kid's form is to read it from Shepard's mind. Shepard should deduce this immediately, and it should inspire questions, if not outright suspicion. Anything that can read your mind might be able to influence it, too. It might be able to deceive you. And as soon as it announces that it is the commander of the Reapers, the creator of the cycle, and thus probably the founder of indoctrination, the caution should really kick into gear.

Oh, but Shepard did react. Consider this: If the Starchild hadn't appeared to us as the Starchild, but rather as StarSovereign or StarHarbinger, how differently do you think people would have chosen? Such a simple trick, and yet it works so well.

... What?

People have said countless times that the Starturd appeared to us in an innocuous form to trick us.

How does this mean Shepard "reacted" to anything.

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
With max EMS, sovereigns are going down in the final battle.

I saw one Capital Ship having a couple of tentacles destroyed before it blew up the dreadnought doing it. No more than that.

The Turians took out several too.

Where is that stated? I admit that I might have missed it
 

The codex, again, shows proper tactics to take sovereigns down.

What was it the turian general on Menae said?
Tactics, no matter how sound, are irrelevant against the Reapers.
They are just too powerful. The only choice the Crucible.

The bulk of the Reaper fleet are made up of destroyers, who can be taken down by a single cruiser.

Then why did it took the entire quarian fleet with, at least, some ships armed with dreadnought weaponry, to take down a single Destroyer?
Five volleys no less. I acknowledge that they might not have used the dreadnought weaponry simply because Shepard was close. However, the quarians have already proven that they have no problem with a little friendly-fire and it was still the largest fleet in the galaxy.
What were they shooting the Destroyer with? Water guns?

Remember, every Reaper that's lost can never be replaced.

Unless they speed up the Harvesting.

What are Reaper production numbers? 1 Sovereign + 10 or so Destroyers every 50,000 years?
That's garbage. In a war of attrition they will lose.

Not true. We have no concrect numbers on the size of their forces, there's no reason to believe they can't change the time schedule if a cycle is developing too fast, not to mention that there is just no way of knowing how many Destroyers there are. There could have been one cycle that produced an 100.
As far as we know, the Reapers could have more Sovereigns than we do dreadnoughts.
Hackett flat out rejected the possibility of a war by attrition.

[a.m.p]

Optimystic_X wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Where is my codex entry that says that now that the crucible is out of the picture I can't reenable it?

How would you? Vigil tells you his program is temporary.

(and that's assuming the "relay network control" is even in the same place, or accessible by organic operator.)

Throw the brilliant minds that made the crucible at it.
Example: Shepard refuses, fleet does it's best and kicks reapers out of Sol, the citadel is retaken, among the survivors we find the guys who were scanning keepers in ME1, they say that seeing the citadel moved to Earth helped them find all sorts of hidden systems. Throw the scientists at those systems. Figure it out, use it.
Tell me that a scenario like that would make less sense than combining organics with software.

I'm not saying it's fact, I'm saying it's a potential solution that is ignored. Again. In favor of the crucible plot that violates everything mass effect was for me personally.

Modifié par a.m.p, 19 avril 2012 - 10:38 .

[PsyrenY]

a.m.p wrote...

Example: Shepard refuses, fleet does it's best and kicks reapers out of Sol, the citadel is retaken, among the survivors we find the guys who were scanning keepers in ME1, they say that seeing the citadel moved to Earth helped them find all sorts of hidden systems. Throw the scientists at those systems. Figure it out, use it.
Tell me that a scenario like that would make less sense than combining organics with software.

Bolded portion is why it would make no sense to me.

a.m.p wrote...
I'm not saying it's fact, I'm saying it's a potential solution that is ignored. Again. In favor of the crucible plot that violates everything mass effect was for me personally.

I guess we'll have to disagree on the crucible plot. Had no problems with it here.

[KingZayd]

Nightwriter wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

OP doesn't even mention that Shepard fails to ask the Catalyst why he is taking vent kid's form.

Shepard should have reacted to this. Big time. Only way the Catalyst could know the vent kid's form is to read it from Shepard's mind. Shepard should deduce this immediately, and it should inspire questions, if not outright suspicion. Anything that can read your mind might be able to influence it, too. It might be able to deceive you. And as soon as it announces that it is the commander of the Reapers, the creator of the cycle, and thus probably the founder of indoctrination, the caution should really kick into gear.

Oh, but Shepard did react. Consider this: If the Starchild hadn't appeared to us as the Starchild, but rather as StarSovereign or StarHarbinger, how differently do you think people would have chosen? Such a simple trick, and yet it works so well.

... What?

People have said countless times that the Starturd appeared to us in an innocuous form to trick us.

How does this mean Shepard "reacted" to anything.

Because so many Shepards did fall for it. Not all reactions are good ones. (i wasn't questioning its place on the list. it is a sign of compromised thinking)

Modifié par KingZayd, 19 avril 2012 - 10:46 .

[a.m.p]

Optimystic_X wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

Example: Shepard refuses, fleet does it's best and kicks reapers out of Sol, the citadel is retaken, among the survivors we find the guys who were scanning keepers in ME1, they say that seeing the citadel moved to Earth helped them find all sorts of hidden systems. Throw the scientists at those systems. Figure it out, use it.
Tell me that a scenario like that would make less sense than combining organics with software.

Bolded portion is why it would make no sense to me.

a.m.p wrote...
I'm not saying it's fact, I'm saying it's a potential solution that is ignored. Again. In favor of the crucible plot that violates everything mass effect was for me personally.

I guess we'll have to disagree on the crucible plot. Had no problems with it here.

which is why I said "personally". And we're back into slippery territory.
I want to ask you personally one thing.
Suppose before the fleets are ordered to Earth and Hackett comes aboard, if you reach the required EMS level, Hackett tells you how this fleet is the biggest force the galaxy has ever gathered and that maybe we do have a chance after all. A few lines acknowleding this.
And then the (semi)conventional option, whatever it would be , would unlock upon meeting the catalyst.
Would it still make no sense to you?

Modifié par a.m.p, 19 avril 2012 - 10:47 .

[Jestina]

Hackett seemed almost as dumb as Shep...believing some fantasy weapon was going to save them all. Doesn't make sense for a man who was career military to be putting all his money on some untested, far-fetched sounding, make the Reapers go away weapon.

[PsyrenY]

a.m.p wrote...

I want to ask you personally one thing.
Suppose before the fleets are ordered to Earth and Hackett comes aboard, if you reach the required EMS level, Hackett tells you how this fleet is the biggest force the galaxy has ever gathered and that maybe we do have a chance after all. A few lines acknowleding this.
And then the (semi)conventional option, whatever it would be , would unlock upon meeting the catalyst.
Would it still make no sense to you?

It would make sense, but be disappointing. If we had it in us all along, it would mean that the Crucible is just there for people that were bad at the game and couldn't gather the necessary assets. Taking any of the options becomes a nonstandard game over rather than a meaningful choice.

It would also mean that we beat mecha-Cthulhu with the power of galactic friendship. To me that undermines the threat they present.

[PsyrenY]

Jestina wrote...

Hackett seemed almost as dumb as Shep...believing some fantasy weapon was going to save them all. Doesn't make sense for a man who was career military to be putting all his money on some untested, far-fetched sounding, make the Reapers go away weapon.

Exactly! Only sheer desperation could make such a pragmatic and decorated soldier rely on untested space magic to win. That's how freaking scary Reapers are.

[a.m.p]

Jestina wrote...

Hackett seemed almost as dumb as Shep...believing some fantasy weapon was going to save them all. Doesn't make sense for a man who was career military to be putting all his money on some untested, far-fetched sounding, make the Reapers go away weapon.

Hackett's just the most obvious part of the problem.

For the crucible plot to work everyone must be dumb.
the leadership of the entire galaxy - for not having prepared for the invasion - a long running problem of the series.
the leadership of the entire galaxy + Shepard - for putting their faith into an extremaly suspicious device with no plan B whatsoever.
the FTL drive engineers of the previous thousand years - for managing to produce FTL plotters without understanding how to disable a safety feature.
cerberus - by default: for trying to do everything to sabotage the war effort, though previously they wanted to stop reapers.
the reapers - for using the most ineffective tactics possible against the first cycle that managed to threaten them.
Did I miss anyone?

I guess the only one who wasn't dumb was Liara, who actually came up with a plan B - the time capsule.

[a.m.p]

Optimystic_X wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

I want to ask you personally one thing.
Suppose before the fleets are ordered to Earth and Hackett comes aboard, if you reach the required EMS level, Hackett tells you how this fleet is the biggest force the galaxy has ever gathered and that maybe we do have a chance after all. A few lines acknowleding this.
And then the (semi)conventional option, whatever it would be , would unlock upon meeting the catalyst.
Would it still make no sense to you?

It would make sense, but be disappointing. If we had it in us all along, it would mean that the Crucible is just there for people that were bad at the game and couldn't gather the necessary assets. Taking any of the options becomes a nonstandard game over rather than a meaningful choice.

It would also mean that we beat mecha-Cthulhu with the power of galactic friendship. To me that undermines the threat they present.

Okay. Now add the price of picking 'no'. The war continues, most of the people alive at that moment die horribly over the next few months/years. There will never be a certainty that all reapers were destroyed. Edit: If you insist that option kills me/ my LI/ my squad/all of the listed, I'm fine with that too.

While the existing options would allow to solve the problem then and there, minimize casualties and maybe, if rumors of EC are true, soon rebuild the relays.

As for galactic friendship, for me, again, personally, defeating cthulhu through the power of galactic friendship is what the game is about even now, I won't even rephrase it with more serious words like unity. I like galactic friendship.

Modifié par a.m.p, 19 avril 2012 - 11:17 .

[Galifreya]

a.m.p wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

I want to ask you personally one thing.
Suppose before the fleets are ordered to Earth and Hackett comes aboard, if you reach the required EMS level, Hackett tells you how this fleet is the biggest force the galaxy has ever gathered and that maybe we do have a chance after all. A few lines acknowleding this.
And then the (semi)conventional option, whatever it would be , would unlock upon meeting the catalyst.
Would it still make no sense to you?

It would make sense, but be disappointing. If we had it in us all along, it would mean that the Crucible is just there for people that were bad at the game and couldn't gather the necessary assets. Taking any of the options becomes a nonstandard game over rather than a meaningful choice.

It would also mean that we beat mecha-Cthulhu with the power of galactic friendship. To me that undermines the threat they present.

Okay. Now add the price of picking 'no'. The war continues, most of the people alive at that moment die horribly over the next few months/years. There will never be a certainty that all reapers were destroyed. Edit: If you insist that option kills me/ my LI/ my squad/all of the listed, I'm fine with that too.

While the existing options would allow to solve the problem then and there, minimize casualties and maybe, if rumors of EC are true, soon rebuild the relays.

As for galactic friendship, for me, again, personally, defeating cthulhu through the power of galactic friendship is what the game is about even now, I won't even rephrase it with more serious words like unity. I like galactic friendship.

You're awesome. *_*

[Venix117]

Why?



Thats what I think anyway

[Spectre_Shepard]

he was embarrassed and just wanted to get it over with.

[mrbthq]

I thought Shepard acted different all through me3, my mostly renegade shepard became such a wimp in me3, in me2 he electrocuted people, tossed people out windows, burn guys alive, tortured people but in me3 he gets all sad about some brat in a vent.

[T-Raks]

moviebuff3000 wrote...

The Reapers were trying to brainwash Shepard to not destroy them so they put in his mind that the Illusive Man was right. The Reapers want Shepard to either join with them or leave them alone, not destroy them so telling Shepard that destroying them is a Renegade choice is their plan. The Reapers put in Shepards mind what would be the results of his/her actions even if they didnt make sense. Shepard acting not his/her self is because they are trying to brainwash him/her and Shepard is tired from everything that has happened so it is easy for the Reapers to do this. Why hasnt anyone figured this out yet?

Ageed and said it. Lots of times already.