254 réponses à ce sujet

[Jestina]

We have a reaper defeating device thingy, that we just happened to pull out of our ass at the same time the Reapers were invading.

[CitizenSnips]

Art.

[The Angry One]

Ieldra2 wrote...

C: "Without us to prevent it, synthetics would destroy all organics"
S: "That doesn't make any sense. Synthetics are just like other people. They want to live free. If you let them, they'll leave you alone. They can even be your allies."
C: "Synthetics can self-improve faster than organics. Once more intelligent than organics, they'll treat them like you treat species of lesser intelligence. As you say, they're just like other people."
S: "You're telling me the alliance will not last?"
C: "Yes....."

That would still end in taking the word of a genocidal maniac over common sense.

Shepard has been through hell and back multiple times. The injuries are just a bad excuse for Shepard's sudden onset of stupidity and weakness. Shepard is someone who's already died once of asphixiation and exposure to vacuum, and didn't come back a wreck because of it.
Shepard is made of harder stuff than you or me. Shepard would not give up, and not accept the lies and assumptions of this glowing psychopath.

[Scubaman8777]

Because ME 3 was about playing Bioware's Shepard, to conclude it on the writer's terms. I felt like my Shepard was never 'fully imported' if you get what I'm saying. Didn't even feel like 'MY' Shepard anymore during the finale on the Citadel.

[TRISTAN WERBE]

Scubaman8777 wrote...

Because ME 3 was about playing Bioware's Shepard, to conclude it on the writer's terms. I felt like my Shepard was never 'fully imported' if you get what I'm saying. Didn't even feel like 'MY' Shepard anymore during the finale on the Citadel.

if shepard was imported on my terms he wouldve been renegade evil and couldve cared less about kid dying

[Pelle6666]

He was in chock over the incredibly bad decision to introduce a new character in the very last scene that basically takes the blame for the entire reaper threat.

[billida]

Shepard is supposed to be larger than life. he died, lost friends, saved the galaxy twice, was resurrected and still he was standing up. Shepard giving up in the very end just doesn't fit.
And it certainly doesn't fit MY shepard.

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

C: "Without us to prevent it, synthetics would destroy all organics"
S: "That doesn't make any sense. Synthetics are just like other people. They want to live free. If you let them, they'll leave you alone. They can even be your allies."
C: "Synthetics can self-improve faster than organics. Once more intelligent than organics, they'll treat them like you treat species of lesser intelligence. As you say, they're just like other people."
S: "You're telling me the alliance will not last?"
C: "Yes....."

That would still end in taking the word of a genocidal maniac over common sense.

Shepard has been through hell and back multiple times. The injuries are just a bad excuse for Shepard's sudden onset of stupidity and weakness. Shepard is someone who's already died once of asphixiation and exposure to vacuum, and didn't come back a wreck because of it.
Shepard is made of harder stuff than you or me. Shepard would not give up, and not accept the lies and assumptions of this glowing psychopath.

Except that the "glowing psychopath" is right. That peace never lasts is something easily inferred just by observing the history of a single planet, Earth. And we are all one race. To expect peace to last between creatures that are so fundamentally different, organics and synthetics, is naive.
And the StarChild is an AI more old and knowledgeable than anything Shepard can even conceive that has been controlling the fate of the galaxy since the dawn of the very first civilization. That is, for all intents and purposes, God speaking to him right now.
Do you think Shepard knows more than God?

[Jonathan Shepard]

The Angry One wrote...

Don't forget: "So the Illusive Man was right!".

I mean, really? WHY WOULD YOU EVER SAY THAT!?
I facepalmed so hard when I heard that. Little did I know that wasn't even the worst of it.

I think the problem was the lack of surprise/disdain from Shepard, and the very brief explanation from Starbrat... and then nothing else is further considered. What else was TIM right about? What do we still not know?

I mean, granted, TIM being right is horrifying, but it's a great accomplishment. The implications were massive, and remain unaddressed.

[Kusy]

Huh? What?

What is this thread? Who are you OP? Huh?

What?

You want me to delete the internet? What? Why should I do this?

Oh... ok... if you say so.

[tanisha__unknown]

She/He is in a very bad shape and unable to think clearly

[The Angry One]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

C: "Without us to prevent it, synthetics would destroy all organics"
S: "That doesn't make any sense. Synthetics are just like other people. They want to live free. If you let them, they'll leave you alone. They can even be your allies."
C: "Synthetics can self-improve faster than organics. Once more intelligent than organics, they'll treat them like you treat species of lesser intelligence. As you say, they're just like other people."
S: "You're telling me the alliance will not last?"
C: "Yes....."

That would still end in taking the word of a genocidal maniac over common sense.

Shepard has been through hell and back multiple times. The injuries are just a bad excuse for Shepard's sudden onset of stupidity and weakness. Shepard is someone who's already died once of asphixiation and exposure to vacuum, and didn't come back a wreck because of it.
Shepard is made of harder stuff than you or me. Shepard would not give up, and not accept the lies and assumptions of this glowing psychopath.

Except that the "glowing psychopath" is right. That peace never lasts is something easily inferred just by observing the history of a single planet, Earth. And we are all one race. To expect peace to last between creatures that are so fundamentally different, organics and synthetics, is naive.
And the StarChild is an AI more old and knowledgeable than anything Shepard can even conceive that has been controlling the fate of the galaxy since the dawn of the very first civilization. That is, for all intents and purposes, God speaking to him right now.

He knows nothing. He's been engaged in a self-fulfilling prophecy for billions of years.
He doesn't know the peace won't last. He doesn't know that even if there's no peace that it will lead to an unendable conflict. He doesn't know that conflict will lead to the extinction of all organic life (because that has NEVER happened).

Do you think Shepard knows more than God?

Was Sovereign a god?
Was Harbinger a god?

Shepard presumed to know more than them.
The Catalyst is little more than an AI in charge of a race of sadistic machines. It is not a god.

[KingZayd]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

C: "Without us to prevent it, synthetics would destroy all organics"
S: "That doesn't make any sense. Synthetics are just like other people. They want to live free. If you let them, they'll leave you alone. They can even be your allies."
C: "Synthetics can self-improve faster than organics. Once more intelligent than organics, they'll treat them like you treat species of lesser intelligence. As you say, they're just like other people."
S: "You're telling me the alliance will not last?"
C: "Yes....."

That would still end in taking the word of a genocidal maniac over common sense.

Shepard has been through hell and back multiple times. The injuries are just a bad excuse for Shepard's sudden onset of stupidity and weakness. Shepard is someone who's already died once of asphixiation and exposure to vacuum, and didn't come back a wreck because of it.
Shepard is made of harder stuff than you or me. Shepard would not give up, and not accept the lies and assumptions of this glowing psychopath.

Except that the "glowing psychopath" is right. That peace never lasts is something easily inferred just by observing the history of a single planet, Earth. And we are all one race. To expect peace to last between creatures that are so fundamentally different, organics and synthetics, is naive.
And the StarChild is an AI more old and knowledgeable than anything Shepard can even conceive that has been controlling the fate of the galaxy since the dawn of the very first civilization. That is, for all intents and purposes, God speaking to him right now.
Do you think Shepard knows more than God?

peace never lasts, this is true no matter which option you pick. The reapers are scarier than the synthetics we have now. The other choices don't destroy the reapers, therefore destroy is the best. as for the synthetics, WE WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY.

[AngryFrozenWater]

zarnk567 wrote...

Fnork wrote...

You know that laser harbinger hit him with ? It also blew off his spine.

That joke is not far from what I think of Shepard at the end. Her will was broken. The ability to reason was lost. The urge to fight the reapers and her ideals gone.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 19 avril 2012 - 08:00 .

[wright1978]

MisterJB wrote...


Except that the "glowing psychopath" is right. That peace never lasts is something easily inferred just by observing the history of a single planet, Earth. And we are all one race. To expect peace to last between creatures that are so fundamentally different, organics and synthetics, is naive.
And the StarChild is an AI more old and knowledgeable than anything Shepard can even conceive that has been controlling the fate of the galaxy since the dawn of the very first civilization. That is, for all intents and purposes, God speaking to him right now.
Do you think Shepard knows more than God?

The AI is no more knowledgable than Shep. It wipes out life every 50,000 years. It doesn't wait to see if its theory proves reliable. Even if she accept that starbrat isn't just lying psychopath, itsnutty logic is based on a random sample of one occurrence.

[ed87]

Now that you mention it, he did seem a bit stupid!! Sorry, Ive been too busy thinking about the green explosion and the meaning behind it...

[zarnk567]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

Fnork wrote...

You know that laser harbinger hit him with ? It also blew off his spine.

That joke is not far from what I think of Shepard at the end. Her will was broken. The ability to reason was lost. The urge to fight the reapers and her ideals gone.

Which just makes the ending even more worse... seeing as how Shepard seems to be going against her/his ideals and beliefs in the end by just accepting the star-child's logic. This ending fails as a "Bitter Sweet" ending and is just bitter,non-sensical and rage inducing.

[LKx]

He's just Lost...

[Galifreya]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

Alright, try to imagine this.

Think of the greatest pain you've ever experienced. It bloody hurt a heck of a lot I bet. Now imagine how much pain you'd be under if you were LASERED by the largest and oldest of all the reapers.

Nightmarish stuff right? Well imagined if you survived that, and now half your armor is burnt onto your SKIN. One minute you were running to the conduit, and now half of Hammer Fleet is dead, your armor is destroyed and burnt, you're near death and your damn confused at what the hell happened.

Then when you finally reach the conduit - you're teleported to some bizarre place on the citadel in which hundreds of dead humans lie in front of you, waiting to be processed. When you finally reach the control room, an indoctrinated Illusive Man is there with Anderson, an argument breaks out, and best case scenario TIM kills himself, mortally wounding Anderson in the process.

After spending your final moments with your mentor, father-like figure in Anderson, you "activate" the crucible, but nothing happens, losing a lot of blood and feeling dazed, you faint.

When you get up, you're greeted with this strange, ghost-like presence. As you look around your location, you can see the hulking reapers destroying Alliance fleets,

At this point, dazed, losing a lot of blood, confused, you see that you actually have a way to end the reaper threat, even if it means listening to this ghost-like presence. You know it can end in one of two ways at that point, you don't use the catalyst and the reapers win, or you choose one of the solutions and hope for the best.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now tell me, if you were in Shepard's position, do you really think you would've acted any different? Shepard doesn't have the luxury of dissecting the Catalyst's circular logic, hell, most of BSN struggle to come to a consensus from their own comfortable chairs months after the ending has been released - how can you expect Shepard to act on logic based on the situation he was in?

Shepard did the only thing he could, choose one of the three options and hope for the best.

No, Shepard doesn't have the time. But YOU do. You can press pause. You can literally freeze time for Sheaprd. And after everything Shepard and the player have been through, you can take five minutes (or twenty, in my case) to consider the options. And there does seem to be a general consensus about the decisions that are presented.... All three of them are stupid. IF Starkid is being entirely truthful.

Now if he isn't, which is something you need to consider as the player (because again, Shepard is in no condition to make this decision), which option is the best? Because if you didn't question the validity of the child's words, I'd say there is something very wrong with your information processing ability. This...thing has committed the worst crimes against the galaxy in the history of forever. To TAKE HIS WORD FOR IT when he tells you this will do this and that will do that, IS LUDICROUS.

Shepard's been through a lot, yeah. But so has the rest of the galaxy. And everything rides on the decision -you- make at the end. Literally, everything. So yeah, you'd better consider every possibility available. Including the fact that the Starchild might be lying to you. Which is a much smaller feat than MASSIVE MULTI-CYCLE GENOCIDE, which you already KNOW he is capable of. You've experienced it firsthand. Lost people specifically because of this shiny little sh*t stain. It is DIRECTLY -his- fault.

Shepard needs you now more than ever, ESPECIALLY because s/he is so beaten and bloodied. Physically and emotionally drained. S/he needs your help, player. Remember...you can freeze time. You have an ability that NO ONE ELSE in the ME universe has. Appraise all the facts. PLEASE consider everything before you let the Reapers just -go-. Before you fuse them to all the people you love and care about.

Just think about it.

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
He knows nothing. He's been engaged in a self-fulfilling prophecy for billions of years.
He doesn't know the peace won't last. He doesn't know that even if there's no peace that it will lead to an unendable conflict. He doesn't know that conflict will lead to the extinction of all organic life (because that has NEVER happened).

And why has that never happened? Because the Reapers were there to stop it.
Have you considered the fact that the Catalyst has observed billions and billions of year of organic evolution and civilization and that, after all those years, it has always reached the same conclusion? That organic extinction is inevitable? Somehow, I doubt the Reapers were the first solution considered.

Even our human scientists have come up with ways for technology to destroy all organic life on Earth and they have not observed nowhere near as many possibilities as the Catalyst.

Was Sovereign a god?
Was Harbinger a god?

Shepard presumed to know more than them.
The Catalyst is little more than an AI in charge of a race of sadistic machines. It is not a god.

Sovereign and Harbinger did not attempt to explain their side of the situation and, even then, all they offered was the preservation of the human race in Reaper form.
This was not acceptable and thus, Shepard would fight. However, the Catalyst has presented a solution to not only save organic life but to also improve it. The Synthesis.

Modifié par MisterJB, 19 avril 2012 - 08:14 .

[Mallorn]

Hey, try to understand Shepard: at the end of her heroic journey to save the galaxy, instead of epic battle, she meets some transparent smartass. No wonder she finally lost it.

[Muhkida]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

C: "Without us to prevent it, synthetics would destroy all organics"
S: "That doesn't make any sense. Synthetics are just like other people. They want to live free. If you let them, they'll leave you alone. They can even be your allies."
C: "Synthetics can self-improve faster than organics. Once more intelligent than organics, they'll treat them like you treat species of lesser intelligence. As you say, they're just like other people."
S: "You're telling me the alliance will not last?"
C: "Yes....."

That would still end in taking the word of a genocidal maniac over common sense.

Shepard has been through hell and back multiple times. The injuries are just a bad excuse for Shepard's sudden onset of stupidity and weakness. Shepard is someone who's already died once of asphixiation and exposure to vacuum, and didn't come back a wreck because of it.
Shepard is made of harder stuff than you or me. Shepard would not give up, and not accept the lies and assumptions of this glowing psychopath.

Except that the "glowing psychopath" is right. That peace never lasts is something easily inferred just by observing the history of a single planet, Earth. And we are all one race. To expect peace to last between creatures that are so fundamentally different, organics and synthetics, is naive.
And the StarChild is an AI more old and knowledgeable than anything Shepard can even conceive that has been controlling the fate of the galaxy since the dawn of the very first civilization. That is, for all intents and purposes, God speaking to him right now.
Do you think Shepard knows more than God?

What kind of stuff are you on?  We are all one race?  In our Earth, Asians =/= Hispanics.  Either way, I'm sure some crazy but infamous Austrian-born German that left his mark in history around the 1930s-40s would've liked you.

You stake the claim that the Catalyst to be something omnipotent or perfect......watch the ending again.

The Star Child admits that whatever choice Shepard makes would prove the Catalyst's original solution to be wrong.

Btw, saying synthesis is the final end of evolution in itself is a terrible contradiction.

Modifié par Muhkida, 19 avril 2012 - 08:32 .

[Ieldra]

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Don't forget: "So the Illusive Man was right!".

I mean, really? WHY WOULD YOU EVER SAY THAT!?
I facepalmed so hard when I heard that. Little did I know that wasn't even the worst of it.

Why not? He *was* right after all. It *is* possible to control the Reapers.

Um. Nobody ever said it was impossible.
What Shepard said up till now was that it was not worth the gamble, and that it was too much for one human to handle.
Oh but now suddenly TIM was right? What, because the leader of the Reapers says so?

I guess you never played a Renegade-ish Shepard. Shepard *never* says it would be too much for  a human to handle, and he never says it would be too much of a gamble. Use the Paragon lines on Mars, and he never even says that he'll get rid of the Reapers once and for all. Instead, he asks TIM to help, saying that fighting among ourselves will only help the Reapers. You can play Shepard consistently, so that in the end it appears completely natural that he says TIM was right.

And even if you're Paragon, "The Illusive Man was right after all" just admits that he was right in one thing: that it's possible for a human to control the Reapers. It says nothing about it being a desirable option.

[EricHVela]

inb4itwasrushed

[The Angry One]

MisterJB wrote...

And why has that never happened? Because the Reapers were there to stop it.

What about the billions of years before they existed?

Have you considered the fact that the Catalyst has observed billions and billions of year of organic evolution and civilization and that, after all those years, it has always reached the same conclusion? That organic extinction is inevitable?

It's been engaged in this same cycle for all that time. It has not one shred of proof to back up it's claims. Not one example. Not even an anecdote.

Somehow, I doubt the Reapers were the first solution considered.

Conjecture, and you realise that makes this concept even worse. Was the Catalyst trying other methods for some time? That didn't work?
Funny, organic life continued all the same.

Even our human scientists have come up with ways for technology to destroy all organic life on Earth and they have not observed nowhere near as many possibilities as the Catalyst.

Because vague theories are practical methods now.

Sovereign and Harbinger did not attempt to explain their side of the situation and, even then, all they offered was the preservation of the human race in Reaper form.

They were gods. Shepard was no one to question them.

This was not acceptable and thus, Shepard would fight.

Shepard is no one to question a god. Your own logic.

However, the Catalyst has presented a solution to not only save organic life but to also improve it. The Synthesis.

Synthesis improves nothing, it is disgusting.
The Catalyst's solutions are as amoral as it is. Shepard should be able to resist this psychopath. End of story.

Modifié par The Angry One, 19 avril 2012 - 08:29 .