389 réponses à ce sujet

[BrysonC]

Aisynia wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

Our opinions are more important than yours. We pay your bills.

So much this.

Developers nowadays have an annoying tendency to complain about gamers' "self-entitlement", when it seems to me THEY'RE the ones being difficult.

Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"? And even if you don't agree with that statement, as a business you don't go around disagreeing with the customers outright.

[Sil]

I am somewhat torn in regards to the eavesdropping quests. In theory, they make sense to a certain degree as they are an audio method of explaining how rumours lead to interesting discoveries.. but I feel in this case it was taken far too far, especially when some incredible set ups for missions discovered by eavesdropping were.. just scanning missions. I think that if half of those eavesdropped missions had been conversations, and half of those had actual missions attached, it would have been far better.

[aries1001]

Hmmm..... I'm seem to remember a certain quest or two in NWN, the first and the Shadows of Undrentide Expansion, that I couldn't say no to. Anyway, to me this is not very a very good thing to do, because it takes away player agency and the illusion of choice i.e. the ability to say yes or no to a quest.

As I understand you get an automated quest update no matter if you waht to do quest or not? when you just eavesdrop...

[Nauks]

We don't like running around the small ass Kirkwall mk2 hub world, overhear/scan/fetch rinse and repeat (while trying to keep track using the barely functional journal) and hardly ever getting any real side-quests.

And apparently it's our problem!  weeehoooo!

Modifié par Nauks, 20 avril 2012 - 06:16 .

[AlanC9]

Nauks wrote...

We don't like running around the small ass Kirkwall mk2 hub world, overhear/scan/fetch rinse and repeat (while trying to keep track using the barely functional journal) and hardly ever getting any real side-quests.

And apparently it's our problem!  weeehoooo!

Well, the italed part is your problem. There's no reason at all to work at keeping track of the quests, except for the handful where you actually are told to go to a particular place.

[AlanC9]

aries1001 wrote...

Hmmm..... I'm seem to remember a certain quest or two in NWN, the first and the Shadows of Undrentide Expansion, that I couldn't say no to. Anyway, to me this is not very a very good thing to do, because it takes away player agency and the illusion of choice i.e. the ability to say yes or no to a quest.

As I understand you get an automated quest update no matter if you waht to do quest or not? when you just eavesdrop...

I don't follow this. How does knowing that someone wants something violate Shepard's autonomy? By definition of "eavesdropping quest", he hasn't done anything whatsoever. Nor is he required to do anything whatsoever at any future time.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

So, got any legitimate gripes about the game Chris? Or are you going to play the silent card all of a sudden

[RiouHotaru]

Pattonesque wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

As already mentioned, we had the same sort of quests in ME2.

So, if you believe that we cut content and are lazy... well... at least we're consistant.

I wouldn't call it lazy, but it could be a buzzkill at times.

The elcor quest is a pretty good example. You talk to the ambassador, get a chance to chat with him a bit about his people, and you're all geared up for a badass mission to extract some elcor civilians -- maybe see one of their walking tanks. Then you go to the planet, shoot a probe at it, and that's it.

It works fine when you give people stuff you come across in your quests -- stuff like the Reaper code or Cerberus schematics -- but when it looks like a setup for an actual mission and turns out to be just a fetch quest, that feels like a buildup with no payoff.

Then technically that's not Bioware's fault, it's yours.  You hyped yourself up into believing it would be a real "mission".

[RiouHotaru]

BrysonC wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

Our opinions are more important than yours. We pay your bills.

So much this.

Developers nowadays have an annoying tendency to complain about gamers' "self-entitlement", when it seems to me THEY'RE the ones being difficult.

Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"? And even if you don't agree with that statement, as a business you don't go around disagreeing with the customers outright.

Actually, that quote isn't accurate.  The customer is usually NEVER right.  But sometimes you just have to fake a smile and play along.

But not always.

[HurfityDurfity]

RiouHotaru wrote...

BrysonC wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

Our opinions are more important than yours. We pay your bills.

So much this.

Developers nowadays have an annoying tendency to complain about gamers' "self-entitlement", when it seems to me THEY'RE the ones being difficult.

Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"? And even if you don't agree with that statement, as a business you don't go around disagreeing with the customers outright.

Actually, that quote isn't accurate.  The customer is usually NEVER right.  But sometimes you just have to fake a smile and play along.

But not always.

The phrase "the customer is always right" doesn't literally mean that the customer is an unimpeachable source of wisdom, it means if you're selling a product, you have to cater to people's wants.

Making art that you and you alone enjoy is great, but trying to market it as a product when everyone else doesn't like it, and THEN claiming that your customers are somehow acting "falsely-entitled" because they're unhappy with your product is just bad, bad, bad, B-A-D buisness practice.

[RiouHotaru]

But then if everyone else doesn't like it, why did they buy it in the first place?

[Daennikus]

RiouHotaru wrote...

But then if everyone else doesn't like it, why did they buy it in the first place?

It fits Shepard's attitude towards strangers. Helpful, selfless, a little creepy at times.

[HurfityDurfity]

RiouHotaru wrote...

But then if everyone else doesn't like it, why did they buy it in the first place?

Because the marketing claiming what the game consisted of and the actual gameplay were divorced from one another.

[AlanC9]

RiouHotaru wrote...
Then technically that's not Bioware's fault, it's yours.  You hyped yourself up into believing it would be a real "mission".

That's a really good point. If I read the complaints right, it seems like the problem is you don't have to do much of anything to complete these missions. But the alternative to having delivery quests like this isn't getting full missions attached to the quests; it's cutting the quests altogether.

Which isn't an unreasonable request, necessarily -- that's how I wanted Bio to fix planetary exploration, and how Bio did fix planetary exploration.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 avril 2012 - 10:18 .

[HurfityDurfity]

AlanC9 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Then technically that's not Bioware's fault, it's yours.  You hyped yourself up into believing it would be a real "mission".

That's a really good point. If I read the complaints right, it seems like the problem is you don't have to do much of anything to complete these missions. But the alternative to having delivery quests like this isn't getting full missions attached to the quests; it's cutting the quests altogether.

Or, you know, choosing to extend the dev cycle and adding content rather than pushing a product your customers are unhappy with out the door.

[Spiritwolf1]

A long time ago (Not trying to age myself) there was a character on Saturday night live called the wonderer and he pretty luch pop up on every video feed or many pictures and even some baseball cards as just being there... The eavesdrop missions remind me of that

[Getorex]

Sil wrote...

I am somewhat torn in regards to the eavesdropping quests. In theory, they make sense to a certain degree as they are an audio method of explaining how rumours lead to interesting discoveries.. but I feel in this case it was taken far too far, especially when some incredible set ups for missions discovered by eavesdropping were.. just scanning missions. I think that if half of those eavesdropped missions had been conversations, and half of those had actual missions attached, it would have been far better.

One or two, even three, such missions would be OK.  You wander around and just happen to catch the conversation and are able to look for something.  Fine.  But virtually ALL of them were privacy invading douchebaggery by Shepard.  Not one or two or three but many missions required listening in on OTHER people's conversations like a...douche.  

Of course, this is a minor nit given the game is a bust because of the ending.  I played once and will never play again so in the end who gives a flying f*ck about the douchebaggery of side missions?

[Navasha]

I actually like the eavesdropping quests. It makes a lot more sense than an actual conversation would. How is it more realistic that all these random people just walk up to Commander Shepard, spectre and ask him to go find some heating elements for his wife's clutch of eggs?

Sorry, but mostly they are just small things that Shepard happens to come across and overhears people need. I don't think I EVER went looking for one of these items specifically.

[AlanC9]

HurfityDurfity wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Then technically that's not Bioware's fault, it's yours.  You hyped yourself up into believing it would be a real "mission".

That's a really good point. If I read the complaints right, it seems like the problem is you don't have to do much of anything to complete these missions. But the alternative to having delivery quests like this isn't getting full missions attached to the quests; it's cutting the quests altogether.

Or, you know, choosing to extend the dev cycle and adding content rather than pushing a product your customers are unhappy with out the door.

You really think that was a possibility? ME3's as long as the other games. They're not going to suddenly make the third game take 50 hours when a bit over 30 has been working for them so far.

[HurfityDurfity]

AlanC9 wrote...

HurfityDurfity wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
Then technically that's not Bioware's fault, it's yours.  You hyped yourself up into believing it would be a real "mission".

That's a really good point. If I read the complaints right, it seems like the problem is you don't have to do much of anything to complete these missions. But the alternative to having delivery quests like this isn't getting full missions attached to the quests; it's cutting the quests altogether.

Or, you know, choosing to extend the dev cycle and adding content rather than pushing a product your customers are unhappy with out the door.

You really think that was a possibility? ME3's as long as the other games. They're not going to suddenly make the third game take 50 hours when a bit over 30 has been working for them so far.

Clearly, you've never played Mass Effect 1, or Dragon Age: Origins.

[Raizo]

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

LOLOLOL
Thats hilarious.

Reminds of the AngryJoeShow when hes re-acting Shepard walking by this one guy and eavesdropping on them

I agree.

[Adeste Fideles]

Raizo wrote...

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

LOLOLOL
Thats hilarious.

Reminds of the AngryJoeShow when hes re-acting Shepard walking by this one guy and eavesdropping on them

I agree.

the begining of angryjoes review of me3 was pretty much my reaction, too.

if you haven't seen it go here:

[frostajulie]

Chris Priestly wrote...

As already mentioned, we had the same sort of quests in ME2.

So, if you believe that we cut content and are lazy... well... at least we're consistant.

You got a point there.  Personally I preferred ME1 where we talked to characters and had conversations often with paragon and renegade convo options.  The sheer amount of immersion in ME1 is what makes it a vastly superior game to its sequals even if combat did suck.

It really does feel lazy, but you're right that is just an opinion and it was consistent with the downward slope introduced in ME2.

I wish just once a game would come along that would have the story and immersion of ME1 and the combat mechanics of ME2 and 3.