389 réponses à ce sujet

[The-Sapient]

I think the problem with the eavesdropping quests is that they could lead to lazy game play. As often as not, I never listened to the quests I picked up. I never paid attention to them in my journal. I didn't make note of the various things I found while scanning. I just clicked on people I could click on, and quests automatically were resolved.

[Rogue Unit]

The-Sapient wrote...

I think the problem with the eavesdropping quests is that they could lead to lazy game play. As often as not, I never listened to the quests I picked up. I never paid attention to them in my journal. I didn't make note of the various things I found while scanning. I just clicked on people I could click on, and quests automatically were resolved.

This. Especially when I realized someone at Bioware came up with the awesome idea of a never-updating-journal.

[cobrabrady]

Maybe its a generation (I'm 28) But I feel what made these so uninteresting is the fact that you didn't get a chance for your character to be involved.
Even with the eavesdrop quest of Mass Effect 2 you would have a conversation wheel bit with them after you found said item.
With the Salarian you learn a bit about the "pedigree" system their race has.
With the Asari you get what some might see as an emotional moment about a dead lover
With the Krogan you got a Paragon/Renegade situation where you could just troll the poor guy and earn some credits
Even the shop keeps were given conversation wheels


In Mass Effect 3 it felt very empty because you don't really talk to the quest givers. It fringes on how some MMOs do fetch quest where you're just told to get X and nothing really comes of it.

Modifié par cobrabrady, 21 avril 2012 - 12:25 .

[AlanC9]

Rogue Unit wrote...

The-Sapient wrote...

I think the problem with the eavesdropping quests is that they could lead to lazy game play. As often as not, I never listened to the quests I picked up. I never paid attention to them in my journal. I didn't make note of the various things I found while scanning. I just clicked on people I could click on, and quests automatically were resolved.

This. Especially when I realized someone at Bioware came up with the awesome idea of a never-updating-journal.

Note that people you need to talk to to resolve quests show on the map. So you've got your navigation aid -- it just isn't the journal.

[Kyrgsh]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

Well, certainly, Mr. Priestly, you're entitled to your opinion just as much as Mr. Faithful (fides/fidelis in Latin) is. I would merely remind you that every moment Shepard runs around the Citadel, eavesdropping on people and invading their privacy, Earth is being decimated. And while you might consider being nosy in a time of galactic crisis "exploring" and "paying attention," others might call it immersion-breaking and a waste of time.

[rpgfan321]

LOL at the comic. Sums up what I thought Shepard was doing during those quests.

Shepard's creepiness taken up to a whole 'nother level.

[Bluko]

Chris Priestly wrote...

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

What?

No I preferred actually talking to NPCs via cinematics. You know what ME1 and ME2 generally did. I remember no pure eavesdrop quests. Sure you could listen to conversations prior to engaging in dialogue. But in ME3 there is an abudance of side quests with literally no player interaction. So to be quite frank they feel pointless. There is no reason to really sit there and listen. Get the quest, scan a planet, click on the NPC and run away.

Part of the biggest replay value the previous two games had for me was the fact there was numerous ways to handle a lot of the more menial tasks. And now this reminds me how there is ually only two ways to deal with anything. Be a nice guy or a jerk. Granted that's always kind of been the case but the removal of a neutral option seems less a conscious design decision and more we don't have time to do all this. With all due respect it's pretty obvious ME3 was a rushed production. Probably should have spent an extra 6-12 months in development. I was under the impression ME3 would have more cinematic conversations with squadmates then ME2 had not less. Granted there is a lot more banter I suppose, but it adds little to replay value as again there is no player involvement in it.


Oh well it's all about the ACTION MODE right? Screw all the pansy RPG talking. That stuff is for nerds! Wait why doesn't my gun have a CHAINSAW on it?! RAAAARGH MY TESTERONE LEVEL IS OUT OF CONTROL!!!  Eh I feel partly to blame for this when I pointed out most people don't want to sit hours of dialogue. But let me expand on this. Most people don't want to play 30+ hour games either. Unless it's a sandbox where you can just blow stuff up with no discretion. If you truly want the Gears audience which I'm guessing EA does, here's what you need to do:

1. Have a 6-10 hour campaign. Anything longer is simply too much.
2. Make multiplayer the true bread and butter of your game. Maybe make it the only mode?
3. No choices, interactive dialogue, or quests. I don't want to think. I just  want to shoot and scream obscenties into my headset at other actual people with my buddies online.

Course doing those things may upset your existing fanbase. But hey it's all about the new guys right? Let's compromise the value our triology in some vain effort to get more sales! Sorry I realize I'm being a bit of an arse here. And I understand that anyone with a "Bioware" is basically more or less required to ablate concerns/complaints rather then add to them. You'll just have to excuse my eccentric nature when I think there's manure that needs shoveling.

Modifié par Bluko, 21 avril 2012 - 02:15 .

[Kem1995]

I totally agree with Bluko, ME1 and ME2 had the right idea on tackling this. If you didnt wanna talk to people you didnt have to, no quests. The problem with the eavesdropping quest is you dont know WHO needs what, or is saying what. Your just running past and BAM new quest. You cant even expand the journel to see information (this is awhole other issue on its own).

The eavesdropping quest aspect of the game takes away even more of the RPG meaning of mass effect, you are given less reason to go and talk to people, already limited as it may be, its even less due to this.

Give us a few lines of dialouge, let a renegade player tell the salarian how much killing you had to do to get the item he needed and deserve a reward.

[The Spamming Troll]

bluko,

always spot on.

[Riknas]

While there were definitely flaws (and I am quite vocal about them), and more conversations are definitely a plus, I don't see a problem with some eavesdropping quests, because they did add to the diversity of things that you did.

If they decided that conversations were overrated and that the best way to handle things would be through walking in on the right people talking and only scanning planets, then yes, that would be a larger problem.

[Adeste Fideles]

Riknas wrote...

...I don't see a problem with some eavesdropping quests ...

No-one has a problem with some fetch quests. It’s the sheer number of them that annoys people.

In fact, the graph previously posted shows that they are the bulk of non-story quests.

Riknas wrote...

If they decided that conversations were overrated and that the best way to handle things would be through walking in on the right people talking and only scanning planets, then yes, that would be a larger problem.

Well, isn’t that exactly what they decided to go with?

[Nefla]

Back in my day, video games were supposed to be fun. The eavesdropping fetch quests are not fun at all. They have no entertainment value. They were ponderous enough my first playthrough when it was at least very slightly ammusing to hear that I just bought a heating stabilizer for some Salarian eggs or what have you. Subsequent playthroughs it's a nightmare. I have to force myself to scan every system to 100% to get all the war assets I can on SP so I don't get some Earth charcoal ending. This is the only reason to do these quests at all. I haven't ever heard anyone say "man I can't wait till I can find those torn pantaloons to bring to that guy! (DA2) Or "awesome, I'm almost at the part where I can probe that planet for an obelisk!" (ME3) This is not fun. This is a chore. Mowing the grass is more fun than probing planets and finding a "scientist" wtf how did I find a scientist with a space probe anyway.

The mako missions were way better, and I hated the mako. I loved the missions in ME2 where you could scan planets and find a place to LAND and start a side mission! Now that's the kind of thing that "rewards exploration." I like talking to npcs to get a mission and I like that mission to be something fun I can do (fight my way through a facility to rescue some hostages, use info, clues, and persuasion to solve a crime, etc...) not a fetch quest that only wastes my time.

Modifié par Nefla, 21 avril 2012 - 06:48 .

[Captain_Obvious_au]

I'd agree, it comes across as lazy. In ME2 when you had this sort of quest it would go into a proper cut scene with the focus on the conversation. In ME3 that has been dropped in favour of a quick exchange that you can just walk away from.

Definitely feels like Bioware couldn't be bothered with it. This also links into the lack of information within the Mission pane and the deletion of the 'assignments' pane. There's a lot less info, and as a first-time player I find myself confused as to where I am in one of these evesdropping quests. At least in ME1 and ME2 you could expand the assignment and you'd get the required info.

[Xerxes52]

For me, it wasn't the eavesdropping that was the main problem (although actually walking up and having a full conversation, with a handful of investigation options, would have been better), but the fact that there were so many fetch quests.

I think the number of fetch quests should comprise no more than five to ten percent of your total number of quests, and they should be "on the way" of the larger quests.

Modifié par Xerxes52, 21 avril 2012 - 07:29 .

[FlamingBoy]

i hated these quests, it just felt lazy and rushed (like a significant portion of the game)

and every one talked in zaeed style dialogue, it was all very annoying

[T1l]

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

BSN:
People who argue with Moderators.

To be fair, if you have a look at what was said and by who you'll see it was Chris Priestly who started throwing stones. I don't understand his motivation for wanting to come in to a thread and be as petty as any other BSN user - he should be above that. Poor form.

[abaris]

cobrabrady wrote...

In Mass Effect 3 it felt very empty because you don't really talk to the quest givers. It fringes on how some MMOs do fetch quest where you're just told to get X and nothing really comes of it.

That probably was their goal all along.

Make it appealing to MMO or FPS fans and thinking RPG fans wouldn't mind.

Modifié par abaris, 21 avril 2012 - 07:42 .

[FlamingBoy]

abaris wrote...

cobrabrady wrote...

In Mass Effect 3 it felt very empty because you don't really talk to the quest givers. It fringes on how some MMOs do fetch quest where you're just told to get X and nothing really comes of it.

That probably was their goal all along.

Make it appealing to MMO or FPS fans and thinking RPG fans wouldn't mind.

thats really annoying if its the case, i like the shooter games, but mass effect was always special because of the way it hybrid shooters and rpg games (less rpg as it went on) tryin to find a decent balance, i thought mass effect 2 achieved this balance, but yeah... what can we do

[Boombox]

they are horrible and felt completely pointless.

[Elk Cloner]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Not to mention the salarian and his family data.

No, it wasn't, you have to pick up datapad to activate it.

[Sharn01]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

Its great when used sparingly, its not the way every single side quest in the game should be introduced.  I can only remember one side quest in the entirety of the game that was given with a conversation, it should have been 2/3rds of the side quests.  The other third should be a mix of eavesdropping or just finding something useful by exploring and keeping it until you come across someone who needs it.

[Fedi.St]

I had a hard laugh on the comic . But people you are overreacting. This way you are on your toes all the time watching everything that goes on through the hub.

The BIG problem is the way you achieve the missions. A little bit more exploration on planets (ME2 style) could really make it perfect. For example :

Dekuuna fighters. Let me save them in a mission I can play.

That turian platoon/colony which the volus ambassador betrayed. Let me go and save it. I was really eager to do that with a mission and not with my search button.

Anyways. Fix the ending and proceed to the future dlc content you planned and I think everyone will be happy.

[TheRealJayDee]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Pattonesque wrote...

I wouldn't call it lazy, but it could be a buzzkill at times.

The elcor quest is a pretty good example. You talk to the ambassador, get a chance to chat with him a bit about his people, and you're all geared up for a badass mission to extract some elcor civilians -- maybe see one of their walking tanks. Then you go to the planet, shoot a probe at it, and that's it.

It works fine when you give people stuff you come across in your quests -- stuff like the Reaper code or Cerberus schematics -- but when it looks like a setup for an actual mission and turns out to be just a fetch quest, that feels like a buildup with no payoff.

Then technically that's not Bioware's fault, it's yours.  You hyped yourself up into believing it would be a real "mission".

The-Sapient wrote...

I think the problem with the
eavesdropping quests is that they could lead to lazy game play. As
often as not, I never listened to the quests I picked up. I never paid
attention to them in my journal. I didn't make note of the various
things I found while scanning. I just clicked on people I could click
on, and quests automatically were resolved.

The elcor "quest" was one of the most annoying things in ME3 for me. I made the same mistake and believed it was a real mission (how stupid of me, I guess?!), only to find out quite some time and some internet consultation later that I had already picked up the assets before even talking to the elcor.

Seriously, I have to assume that missions that look like missions aren't actual missions but (probably already resolved) "pick up points" assignments, and if I do othwerwise it's my fault and I have no reason to be disappointed?

Yeah...!<_<

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 21 avril 2012 - 11:25 .

[TheRealJayDee]

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

So, got any legitimate gripes about the game Chris? Or are you going to play the silent card all of a sudden