389 réponses à ce sujet

[abaris]

Fedi.St wrote...

The BIG problem is the way you achieve the missions. A little bit more exploration on planets (ME2 style) could really make it perfect. For example :

That's it, actually.

It's not the least bit interesting. No interaction, although hearing people talk about their problems is kinda cute, no action required. Not even a search for particular items, since they turn up in your spectre requisitions anyway sooner or later.

[PsyrenY]

I like eavesdrop quests. You're a Spectre, you're supposed to be spying on people (and solving their problems, if doing so helps the war effort.)

The only time it breaks immersion is when they pay you out of nowhere for it. If someone did a quest I never asked them to, I'd keep my creds and just say "gee, thanks!".

[abaris]

Optimystic_X wrote...

I like eavesdrop quests. You're a Spectre, you're supposed to be spying on people (and solving their problems, if doing so helps the war effort.)

It's not so much how the quests are aquired, it's how they are executed. It's fine to overhear a conversation and get some hint at what is needed. But from there it's simply ride to system A, scan planet B, pick up item C and ride back to hand it over. Oh, and if you were too stupid to find planet B, don't worry, the item magically turns up in your spectre computer.

There's no challenge and no roleplaying involved. That's the problem, not the eavesdropping in itself. If, say, every fifth eavesdropping mission actually involved a questline, things would be different.

[Naughty Bear]

Optimystic_X wrote...

I like eavesdrop quests. You're a Spectre, you're supposed to be spying on people (and solving their problems, if doing so helps the war effort.)

The only time it breaks immersion is when they pay you out of nowhere for it. If someone did a quest I never asked them to, I'd keep my creds and just say "gee, thanks!".

So a Spectre is supposed to spy on the general public and gather intel such as what is the juciest gossip of the day is, learn who lost their prized belongings and discover what customer is not getting their refund? 

[PsyrenY]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

I like eavesdrop quests. You're a Spectre, you're supposed to be spying on people (and solving their problems, if doing so helps the war effort.)

The only time it breaks immersion is when they pay you out of nowhere for it. If someone did a quest I never asked them to, I'd keep my creds and just say "gee, thanks!".

So a Spectre is supposed to spy on the general public and gather intel such as what is the juciest gossip of the day is, learn who lost their prized belongings and discover what customer is not getting their refund? 

S/he's supposed to pay attention. And most of these relate directly to the war - medigel for Hanar, Cerberus toxins for a turian general, biotic amp schematics for asari commandos, various inspirational items belonging to different races, and of course, prothean relics for the Crucible. The "refund" thing isn't even a quest, just an entertaining running gag for the dedicated fans.

[wpmayhew]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

hey you should read the post right underneath yours

[Melancholic]

You mean the minigame where you scan planets for resources (war assets)? It replaces ME2's minigame where we scanned planets for resources (minerals).

[abaris]

Melancholic wrote...

You mean the minigame where you scan planets for resources (war assets)? It replaces ME2's minigame where we scanned planets for resources (minerals).

With a crucial difference. These weren't labeled as quests.

[wpmayhew]

abaris wrote...

Melancholic wrote...

You mean the minigame where you scan planets for resources (war assets)? It replaces ME2's minigame where we scanned planets for resources (minerals).

With a crucial difference. These weren't labeled as quests.

Good point.  the "quest" label gives players enough of a false sense of accomplishment to [hopefully] warrant the time they spent mindlessly going from system to system right-clicking everything in their path.  It's like how introducing mission objectives turns doom into modern warfare 3.

[Pedrak]

Funny how years ago people used the term "side-quest" in RPGs to mean stuff like the Umar Hills, Windspear Hills, De Arnise Keep or the Athkatla serial killer quests and now it means walking by a random guy and automatically getting a note in your journal about a quest that, whether it's about rescuing Elcor civilians or recovering a Batarian artifact, always implies clicking on the galaxy map and then shooting a probe on a planet.

Brilliant stuff, really.

Modifié par Pedrak, 21 avril 2012 - 04:13 .

[Romantiq]

Lazy design choice. One of many.

[abaris]

Romantiq wrote...

Lazy design choice. One of many.

The design choice in itself isn't that lazy. The problem is that the ensuing quests are husks. There's nothing in there. They're all the same with some flying and scanning.

The idea of people talking about their war related problems was a nice touch and I appreciated that until I learned that nothing followed. No quest, no talking, no nothing.

Same goes for these little side taking quests on the citadel. Nice idea, but all they amount to is a runby comment without any chance to play on your paragon or renegade skills.

So, nice ideas, but lackluster execution.

[Qutayba]

I have mixed feelings about it. BioWare started using this model for side quests in DAII. It's done better in ME3 because most of the quests involve dealing with the war, and so add to the flavor of the game. It's not just "Oh, by chance I happened to find your bauble sitting around a dungeon" but "Oh, I hear you need an unusual antidote for a Reaper poison, I just may have something for you in my back pocket!" From a gameplay perspective, I also appreciate that they tried to make it more streamlined - side quests become tedious if there's too much back and forth.

So I think it's a great way to flesh out the world and the ambiance. But you can't help getting the feeling that Shepard is a creep for nosing his way into everyone's business, even if it's to help. "Hello, neighbor! I noticed your kitchen faucet was leaking, so I broke into your house and fixed the pipes for you. No charge. Oh, and by the way, I also reorganized your underwear drawer. Later!"

Since ME3 improved on DA2's implementation, I hope they continue to refine the model if they decide to keep using if for side quests.

[abaris]

Qutayba wrote...

I also appreciate that they tried to make it more streamlined - side quests become tedious if there's too much back and forth.

See, and that's exactly the problem many of us have. That little magic word streamlining let's me reach for the barf bag, since it means taking away content.

I fully understand you found the side quests tedious, but for me and obviously for quite a few others they added to the experience. Now it's just fly/scan/drop. The only difference between these quests is what you are dropping.

[Doodzey]

It's without a doubt one of the worst things about the game. Impersonal, lazy and just plain time filling fetch quests for people you know nothing about.

[Bocks]

They are not fun. They're completely boring to such an incredible extent that I wanted to gouge my eyes out. In DA2 they were frustrating, and I KNOW that there were people that made a big deal about them. Why Bioware refused to listen to the people who complained is beyond me. There's nothing wrong with some eavesdropping, but there is so much of it it's painful. Going into a system, scanning some planets and then dodging some ridiculous Reapers whilst picking up fuel is NOT fun after the 20th time you do this. It wasn't fun the first time. It was another lazy, rushed and frustrating aspect of ME3.

But then again, I bought the game. Doesn't matter if I complain. Bioware don't care. EA don't care. They have my money already, something which they will never, EVER have again. Enjoy your collapsing stock price.

[Adeste Fideles]

Bocks wrote...

scanning some planets and then dodging some ridiculous Reapers

the whole normandy/reapers benny hill chase section deserves its' own thread to be ridiculed in.

now that the whole ending furore is dying down a little, i'm glad that we have moved on to critiquing the rest of the game more closely, and pointing out the other flaws in me3.

[Merilsell]

Hmm, this system of getting quests is certainly interesting, imo. Except that I felt my Shep being a stalker creeping up to them like "OH HAI! I OVERHEARD YOUR CONVERSATION WITH YOUR SISTER. HERE IS THE HEATING UNIT, KTHXBAI!" xD

And while I appreciate the diversion from the usual quest system, at times it was a bit too much. After doing the Citadel 2 Quest I couldn't go two steps without getting *something* added to my questlog and I lost track who wanted what all too quickly. Which made me flee on the Normandy, only to have 3 persons wanting to speak with me, as well a new Cerberus quest from Traynor and a request from Anderson/Hackett o.O

I practically could see my Shep's head spinning.

A little more balance would have been nice here. I can imagine that after Priority Citadel 2 these are the last of the Citadel quests for the game. So parting them into three portions might have helped to not get bombed with them. Also to find the person to what belonged what was/is pretty confusing at times. The bad questlog doesn't help here, I see the attempt to make it more like ME1, but it was better solved there and actually showed in the log when you had collected the item. Sigh.

[redplague]

Chris Priestly wrote...


And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

Talk about out of touch with popular opinion.

Although, you're bound to say that aren't you, hardly an impartial view.

And anyway you do realise you could pick up these quests without listening to what they said, don't you know anything about this game!

[redplague]

Chris Priestly wrote...

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

No Chris, It's just lazy. Exploring and actually having a discussion is a lot more interesting than exploring and eavesdropping on someone.

Indeed? Please tell me what I like on a pizza or what ice cream I prefer while you are at it.

I'm sorry you didn't like it and found it lazy, but that I do is MY opinion, not yours.

Yes..... and that person replying was their opinion.  If your going to offer your opinion Chris at least have the backbone to take it when someone disagrees.

[Khwarezm89]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
I can't stop laughing

[redplague]

Adeste Fideles wrote...


are you sure about that? to me it was another red flag highlighting the fact BW were cutting every corner they could to get the game out on time and on budget. i believe you failed on both counts.

i would be really interested if the me3 team did a frank and honest game postmortem at a future GDC.

I'm sorry I don't understand that statement.  ME3 team, frank and honest in the same sentence.

[redplague]

Chris Priestly wrote...

As already mentioned, we had the same sort of quests in ME2.

So, if you believe that we cut content and are lazy... well... at least we're consistant.

ME2 had about 3 or 4 missions like this, I lost count of how many in ME3.

You would think a Bioware employee would know a bit more about their own products!

[Demon Velsper]

Chris Priestly wrote...

As already mentioned, we had the same sort of quests in ME2.

So, if you believe that we cut content and are lazy... well... at least we're consistant.

Minor problem there is: they weren't the only -ing sort of quests in ME2. You actually got to land on planets that had nothing to do with the main story there.