389 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Saiyan1126 wrote...
 Like I said, in ME1 & 2, most side missions gave you a choice on how to handle the mission.

Not the version I played. Very few of the ME1 and 2 sidequests had multiple solutions. I can work up a percentage if you need proof.

Edit: do ME2 LMs count as sidequests? I've generally heard them classified as plot missions. It's not a rational classification system anyway, so I don't got a dog in that fight.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 avril 2012 - 02:32 .

[Saiyan1126]

Jymm wrote...

I would also point out that all the sidequests in ME1 used the same locations / assets over and over and we hated that. So now they have many fewer quests with locations, but much less notable re-use of assets and much improved level design and depth. Its all trade-offs.

I'd be inclined to agree with this if ME2's side missions didn't prove otherwise. (I'll give you the depth part, but that was an issue with ME2 itself.) In ME2 I thought the suicide mission was a bit underwhelming level design wise. But I personally thought Bioware made it up with the vast amount and variety of the side missions. I honestly don't remember 2 missions looking alike. 

[Saiyan1126]

AlanC9 wrote...

Saiyan1126 wrote...
 Like I said, in ME1 & 2, most side missions gave you a choice on how to handle the mission.

Not the version I played. Very few of the ME1 and 2 sidequests had multiple solutions. I can work up a percentage if you need proof

When I said handle, I also meant how you interact with the NPC (Paragon vs Renegade, goodwill vs payment, etc.)

[TheJiveDJ]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

Oh please Chris, although you claim to be "evil", even I have a hard time imagining you typed that with a straight face.  Most of the sidequests were eavesdropping quests; it's lazy/rushed development.

[TheJiveDJ]

Chris Priestly wrote...

As already mentioned, we had the same sort of quests in ME2.

So, if you believe that we cut content and are lazy... well... at least we're consistant.

Did you play the same ME2 that I did?  Confused.

Edit: I respect your opinion and your conviction of said opinion, but I still think your opinion is objectively wrong in terms of BioWare's track record.  If we were comparing this to any shmo developer then you might have a point.  Comparing this to ME1 and ME2, the drop in quality of ancillary portions of the game is simply astounding.

Modifié par TheJiveDJ, 20 avril 2012 - 02:42 .

[AzaggThoth]

I think it is rather more insidious than BioWare getting lazy or anything like that. For all the sub par feel of them, this thread is ignoring a major point on this. Multiplayer. I would bet these eavesdropping side quests we intentionally made to be lack luster, lifeless and lack replayability just as a means to funnel players who didn't want to deal with them into MP so BioWare could have a better chance to sell booster packs. If the side quests were as replayable and vibrant a the ones in ME1 and ME2, people would love to go trough them again and again as we already do for those games. These side quests in ME3 may be OK once or twice but I would guess when you hear the same thing over and over you will just want to skip it. Considering the super tight need for war assets and EMS, skipping these ultra mundane fetch quests will cause people to fill up MP ques.

[Vertigo_1]

daftPirate wrote...
Can't disagree, weak, but I argue they were better than many of the copy-paste bunker missions in ME1. The N7 missions could have been quite good, if they weren't all one shot's. There were two sidequests in ME1 that overcame that lameness and struck me, narratively: Hades' Dogs and Bring Down the Sky. The rest, hunting the 4 identical Geth bases, or murdering Helena Blake's crime lords, were just as weak if not weaker than the N7 missions.

Yeah that kinda was meh, but at least they had dialogue or something behind them (story wise) and don't forget those amazing skyboxes...

I guess each has its drawbacks and advantages (though I still prefer the ME1 sidemissions, even some of the ME2 ones)

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 20 avril 2012 - 02:44 .

[DarxydeBluus]

The sidequests in ME3 were, for the most part, math and nothing more. There was no enjoyment, there was just, "How many war assets will completing these give me?" On top of that, there was the bad journal and the fact that you could get quests long before the associated system was opened up on the galaxy map. That made them nearly unbearable.

[AlanC9]

OK, Saiyan, gotcha. Yeah, a sidequest where you don't interact with NPCs can't really give you choices in how you interact.But if that's the criterion ME2 and ME3 should score very similarly. (Unless you're counting the LMs as sidequests, which would raise ME2's score)

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 avril 2012 - 02:45 .

[Saiyan1126]

I don't mean to spam here, but thinking about reused assets made me realize something. Does anyone remember the side mission in ME2 where Geth were changing the weather and Shepard had to go up the hill to turn it off? If I'm not mistaken, it looked just like the Citadel beam...

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Chris Priestly wrote...

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

No Chris, It's just lazy. Exploring and actually having a discussion is a lot more interesting than exploring and eavesdropping on someone.

Indeed? Please tell me what I like on a pizza or what ice cream I prefer while you are at it.

I'm sorry you didn't like it and found it lazy, but that I do is MY opinion, not yours.

...okay?

So your defense against criticism is that you personally enjoyed the feature that so many have expressed dissatisfaction with? Couldn't you have just said, "They're there to reward completionists and to provide small insights about the state of the galaxy at large?" You know, instead of just being defensive, actually defend the logic behind the eavesdrop quests.

[AlanC9]

DarxydeBluus wrote...

The sidequests in ME3 were, for the most part, math and nothing more. There was no enjoyment, there was just, "How many war assets will completing these give me?"

You don't enjoy getting WA points? Or credits? Or XP? Or Rep points? 

What if you got the same rewards but Bio didn't call these things sidequests?

On top of that, there was the bad journal and the fact that you could get quests long before the associated system was opened up on the galaxy map. That made them nearly unbearable.

Hmmm.... were you actually going around trying to do ME3's sidequests? As opposed to just collecting rewards when they came your way?

[mauro2222]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

Pay attention to what? The dialogue dissapears everytime because someone is talking in Zakera Wards while you are on the Presidium. Those Cerberus upgrades really messed Shepard's hearing...

[TheJiveDJ]

Saiyan1126 wrote...

I don't mean to spam here, but thinking about reused assets made me realize something. Does anyone remember the side mission in ME2 where Geth were changing the weather and Shepard had to go up the hill to turn it off? If I'm not mistaken, it looked just like the Citadel beam...

MIND = BLOWN

[Saiyan1126]

AlanC9 wrote...

OK, Saiyan, gotcha. Yeah, a sidequest where you don't interact with NPCs can't really give you choices in how you interact.But if that's the criterion ME2 and ME3 should score very similarly. (Unless you're counting the LMs as sidequests, which would raise ME2's score)

I don't count Loyalty Missions, Ex-Squadmate missions (Jack, Jacob, Samara, etc.), or Adm. Koris and LT. Victus rescue missions as side missions. Do you really think ME3 would score similarly if you didn't count missions that included ex-squadmates?

[AlanC9]

mauro2222 wrote...
Pay attention to what? The dialogue dissapears everytime because someone is talking in Zakera Wards while you are on the Presidium. Those Cerberus upgrades really messed Shepard's hearing...

Zakera? Which game are we talking about, again?

[Galbrant]

That comic was amusing. But if I recall there was only one eavesdropping quest in ME2 and that was with the Krogan wanting fish on the Presidium. A few quest like that sure I can live with that, But having the majority of the side quest like that... sounds like cutting corners to me. i rather get the know the person that I am helping then walk by listening to them going to scan the planet only to realize I already have said item, thanks a lot @#$%ing Journal, then bring it to them.

To be honest I was okay with it at first, because really as soon as you finish with a priority you can go scan planets you have access to and already have the item for the client... So essentially you can ignore the dialog. But after awhile that's all you do after every mission and it becomes stale I thinks that is why I can barely play my second play through. I got no real story from them. I don't get to know these people because Shepard doesn't interact with them all that much. So yeah aside from the few actually side missions and main story line all the other side quests are stale.

[EHondaMashButton]

Grinding numbers for the sake of it isn't fun.
XP is only enjoyable as a means to unlock powers.
Rep is only enjoyable as a means to unlock dialogue

War assets- I didn't enjoy collecting these at all, especially since they don't factor into anything. (i.e. the cutscenes are indistinguishable) This is also a situation where the graph is ineffective as a motivator. They should've went with a visual display of the glaxy showing your war assets.

[mauro2222]

AlanC9 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...
Pay attention to what? The dialogue dissapears everytime because someone is talking in Zakera Wards while you are on the Presidium. Those Cerberus upgrades really messed Shepard's hearing...

Zakera? Which game are we talking about, again?

It was a joke...

[Saiyan1126]

TheJiveDJ wrote...

Saiyan1126 wrote...

I don't mean to spam here, but thinking about reused assets made me realize something. Does anyone remember the side mission in ME2 where Geth were changing the weather and Shepard had to go up the hill to turn it off? If I'm not mistaken, it looked just like the Citadel beam...

MIND = BLOWN

Yep, just looked it up. N7:_Anomalous_Weather_Detected


Not cool Bioware...

[The Milky Waver]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Arcadian Legend wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

Yeah, it's pretty lazy. At least back in ME2 when you overheard someone with a problem you'd actually ask them about it and tell them you'd look into it for them.

That's how normal people behave.

The krogan asking about fish in the Presidium was an eavesdrop quest.

Not to mention the salarian and his family data.

And the two Asari who needed forged ID's

[DarxydeBluus]

AlanC9 wrote...

DarxydeBluus wrote...

The sidequests in ME3 were, for the most part, math and nothing more. There was no enjoyment, there was just, "How many war assets will completing these give me?"

You don't enjoy getting WA points? Or credits? Or XP? Or Rep points? 

What if you got the same rewards but Bio didn't call these things sidequests?

On top of that, there was the bad journal and the fact that you could get quests long before the associated system was opened up on the galaxy map. That made them nearly unbearable.

Hmmm.... were you actually going around trying to do ME3's sidequests? As opposed to just collecting rewards when they came your way?

On the first point, I don't mind getting points or other rewards but I don't think that's all a quest should be about in an RPG. There should be something other than just "Go to planet, scan planet, bring item back, get a line of auto-dialogue and a few War Assets" and that happend A LOT in ME3.

On the second point, I don't understand what your saying. My point was that on a number of occassions you'd get these quests before you'd be able to go to the location that the quest took place (the planet/system wasn't unlocked until later in the game). That, coupled with the poor journal system, made for some sloppy design where you'd have to repeatedly check a cluster (if that's even open) to see if the specific system is open yet.

Modifié par DarxydeBluus, 20 avril 2012 - 03:05 .

[AlanC9]

Saiyan1126 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

OK, Saiyan, gotcha. Yeah, a sidequest where you don't interact with NPCs can't really give you choices in how you interact.But if that's the criterion ME2 and ME3 should score very similarly. (Unless you're counting the LMs as sidequests, which would raise ME2's score)

I don't count Loyalty Missions, Ex-Squadmate missions (Jack, Jacob, Samara, etc.), or Adm. Koris and LT. Victus rescue missions as side missions. Do you really think ME3 would score similarly if you didn't count missions that included ex-squadmates?

So if we count certain missions in a certain way ME3 has less of them? I'm not sure where we're going with this. Would any of the ME3 sidequests have been improved by Shepard having the opportunity to be a dick to people?

Or is the issue that there isn't enough interaction with NPCs generally? In that case, whether this happens in the couse of quests or not is really not all that relevant.

[EHondaMashButton]

The Milky Waver wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Arcadian Legend wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

Yeah, it's pretty lazy. At least back in ME2 when you overheard someone with a problem you'd actually ask them about it and tell them you'd look into it for them.

That's how normal people behave.

The krogan asking about fish in the Presidium was an eavesdrop quest.

Not to mention the salarian and his family data.

And the two Asari who needed forged ID's

They're overheard but there's so much more put into them.

krogan fish: 
 
salarian family data: 
 
asari forged id's: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2dSERbj2dY 

[The Milky Waver]

EHondaMashButton wrote...

The Milky Waver wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Arcadian Legend wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

Yeah, it's pretty lazy. At least back in ME2 when you overheard someone with a problem you'd actually ask them about it and tell them you'd look into it for them.

That's how normal people behave.

The krogan asking about fish in the Presidium was an eavesdrop quest.

Not to mention the salarian and his family data.

And the two Asari who needed forged ID's

They're overheard but there's so much more put into them.

krogan fish: 
 
salarian family data: 
 
asari forged id's: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2dSERbj2dY 

True.