389 réponses à ce sujet

[skuid]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

I only found one quest in the citadel where you actually had to pay attention and it was so little memorable that I can't even remember what was about, I just remember that it trigger when you hear a conversation near the apartments  in the presidium areas and then I had to talk to a man who was at the c-sec office nearby. My surprise came when I talk to that man and a dialogue wheel appeared with 5 options!!!!

The others missions you just have to scan all the planets and then retrive the object to their owners without even have to pay attention to the conversations, not even listen a bit of it.

But maybe I missed something and there are a lot of quest like this because it only took me 30h to complete the game in insanity (doing all the side missions, N7 missions, scanning all the planets and listening most of the conversations in the citadel) and I heard some people took 40-50h to complete it in normal.

IMO the "eavesdrop" quests are one of the worst thing ME3 have just like DA2, but at least in DA2 you found the objects during missions and this forced you to pay attention in all the missions to find the objects.

[abaris]

skuid wrote...

The others missions you just have to scan all the planets and then retrive the object to their owners without even have to pay attention to the conversations, not even listen a bit of it.

And it seems, you find them in the spectre supplies anyway if you were to miss the particular opportunity to pick it up.

[skuid]

abaris wrote...

skuid wrote...

The others missions you just have to scan all the planets and then retrive the object to their owners without even have to pay attention to the conversations, not even listen a bit of it.

And it seems, you find them in the spectre supplies anyway if you were to miss the particular opportunity to pick it up.

Yes, I forgot to mention that too

[ZombifiedJake]

Priestly can defend it all he wants, but that aspect of the game definitely came across as lazy (and not particularly fun).

[Allen Spellwaver]

It's just lazy. In this way,they need less voice acting and script.

[LilyasAvalon]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Arcadian Legend wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

Yeah, it's pretty lazy. At least back in ME2 when you overheard someone with a problem you'd actually ask them about it and tell them you'd look into it for them.

That's how normal people behave.

The krogan asking about fish in the Presidium was an eavesdrop quest.

Not to mention the salarian and his family data.

It's fine when it's done, like, once or twice. But when the ENTIRE sidequest system is based around it it's... just creepy and stalkerish.

[Cypher_CS]

There's a difference between defending something and just stating "I think it was great".

[Nimrodell]

Wait, eavesdropping quests are ok if it's Skyrim but not ok if it's Mass Effect? Even in Oblivion I wasn't sure when NPCs are just talking and when it's actual quest and I didn't have that problem in Mass Effect 3 because either game itself would point me to those convos and support things or I'd resolve those quests by mere scanning. I really don't get how can people have so much of double-standards.

[abaris]

Nimrodell wrote...

Wait, eavesdropping quests are ok if it's Skyrim but not ok if it's Mass Effect? Even in Oblivion I wasn't sure when NPCs are just talking and when it's actual quest and I didn't have that problem in Mass Effect 3 because either game itself would point me to those convos and support things or I'd resolve those quests by mere scanning. I really don't get how can people have so much of double-standards.

Skyrim is a totally different game concept. And I'm not saying, I'm OK with the rather repetitive side quest system they introduced.

The ME series is storydriven without the free exploring system the Elder Scroll games offer.

And it's not so much that the eavesdrop quests exist, that's fine and dandy. It's that the make up about 90 percent of the side quests. Listen to some conversation. Stumble across something whilst scanning a planet. Drop that something off. And if you don't find it, buy it cheap at the spectre terminal and drop it off.

Again, I don't think, you can even compare ME with Skyrim, but in Skyrim you at least had to actually do something other than scanning or buying.

[Kidd]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Indeed? Please tell me what I like on a pizza or what ice cream I prefer while you are at it.

Sliced banana, curry, peanuts, chicken! Since you don't live in Sweden, you've likely never been lucky enough to experience our wonderful pizza culture. Hence I'm nice like that and telling you what you like, so you can try it in the future =)

(it's -really- good, though! had a british friend here a few months ago who was very sceptical to the idea, yet when he had it he loved it! =D)

[AkiKishi]

Nimrodell wrote...

Wait, eavesdropping quests are ok if it's Skyrim but not ok if it's Mass Effect? Even in Oblivion I wasn't sure when NPCs are just talking and when it's actual quest and I didn't have that problem in Mass Effect 3 because either game itself would point me to those convos and support things or I'd resolve those quests by mere scanning. I really don't get how can people have so much of double-standards.

Never played Skyrim, but are any of those quests something that changes the ending you get ? Mass Effect 3 does not point you anywhere. You wander around the Citadel until you get a codex entry or see something you can click.

Just because something works in one game, does not mean it works in every game that tries it.

[DonYourAviators]

Lazy. I find it funny that apparently no one at BioWare strives to better their creation. So far we've heard only about how much they love themselves and everything they make.

Like those **** guitarists who just stay **** or gradually get worse because they don't think they have to practice or improve anything because they're already the best.

Modifié par DonYourAviators, 20 avril 2012 - 11:35 .

[Zaxares]

I think it would have been hilarious if there had been an eavesdropping side-quest to help some guy get some of Morlan's "Enhancement Pills".

Shepard: "I have some of those pills waiting in Bay D-24. Go help yourself."
Guy: "Really? WOW! Thank you so- Wait, were you listening to me? I- I don't need them myself! It's for, uh, a friend! ... I should go."

[Nimrodell]

abaris wrote...

Nimrodell wrote...

Wait, eavesdropping quests are ok if it's Skyrim but not ok if it's Mass Effect? Even in Oblivion I wasn't sure when NPCs are just talking and when it's actual quest and I didn't have that problem in Mass Effect 3 because either game itself would point me to those convos and support things or I'd resolve those quests by mere scanning. I really don't get how can people have so much of double-standards.

Skyrim is a totally different game concept. And I'm not saying, I'm OK with the rather repetitive side quest system they introduced.

The ME series is storydriven without the free exploring system the Elder Scroll games offer.

And it's not so much that the eavesdrop quests exist, that's fine and dandy. It's that the make up about 90 percent of the side quests. Listen to some conversation. Stumble across something whilst scanning a planet. Drop that something off. And if you don't find it, buy it cheap at the spectre terminal and drop it off.

Again, I don't think, you can even compare ME with Skyrim, but in Skyrim you at least had to actually do something other than scanning or buying.

I'm not comparing Skyrim and ME on sandbox vs streamlined RPG level - I just said, you have the same thing in Skyrim too and it's not like you don't have anything to do in ME. To be honest, my choice would be Witcher system where both sandbox and streamlining are merged (though somewhat lacking in some other aspects that games like mass Effect and Dragon Age have - relations with companions and the fact that characters are not pre-determined) into new form, but that's not even the point. In Skyrim's chaos (I always describe it with Vanilla WoW famous line - Where is Mankirk's wife?) eavesdropping for getting quests is common thing, I just don't see what's the big deal if Mass Effect adopted that mechanic or is it in fact something else - all cool schoolkids and cheerleaders are currently bashing Mass Effect in every aspect, so lets find another thing that will bother us so we can stay in corner of being cool... As Mr. Chris Priestly said well in his stingy manner - well, at least they are consistent then. I just wonder what's next on table for bashing - wait, maybe someone will find that those ravager sacks are not realistic and gooey enough, which obviously implies that BW was lazy even in this aspect, those damned slackers. Now, lets see who'll be the first one to call me fangirl or **** for saying all this.

[AkiKishi]

Nimrodell wrote...

abaris wrote...

Nimrodell wrote...

Wait, eavesdropping quests are ok if it's Skyrim but not ok if it's Mass Effect? Even in Oblivion I wasn't sure when NPCs are just talking and when it's actual quest and I didn't have that problem in Mass Effect 3 because either game itself would point me to those convos and support things or I'd resolve those quests by mere scanning. I really don't get how can people have so much of double-standards.

Skyrim is a totally different game concept. And I'm not saying, I'm OK with the rather repetitive side quest system they introduced.

The ME series is storydriven without the free exploring system the Elder Scroll games offer.

And it's not so much that the eavesdrop quests exist, that's fine and dandy. It's that the make up about 90 percent of the side quests. Listen to some conversation. Stumble across something whilst scanning a planet. Drop that something off. And if you don't find it, buy it cheap at the spectre terminal and drop it off.

Again, I don't think, you can even compare ME with Skyrim, but in Skyrim you at least had to actually do something other than scanning or buying.

I'm not comparing Skyrim and ME on sandbox vs streamlined RPG level - I just said, you have the same thing in Skyrim too and it's not like you don't have anything to do in ME. To be honest, my choice would be Witcher system where both sandbox and streamlining are merged (though somewhat lacking in some other aspects that games like mass Effect and Dragon Age have - relations with companions and the fact that characters are not pre-determined) into new form, but that's not even the point. In Skyrim's chaos (I always describe it with Vanilla WoW famous line - Where is Mankirk's wife?) eavesdropping for getting quests is common thing, I just don't see what's the big deal if Mass Effect adopted that mechanic or is it in fact something else - all cool schoolkids and cheerleaders are currently bashing Mass Effect in every aspect, so lets find another thing that will bother us so we can stay in corner of being cool... As Mr. Chris Priestly said well in his stingy manner - well, at least they are consistent then. I just wonder what's next on table for bashing - wait, maybe someone will find that those ravager sacks are not realistic and gooey enough, which obviously implies that BW was lazy even in this aspect, those damned slackers. Now, lets see who'll be the first one to call me fangirl or **** for saying all this.

Do you really not get it ? I mean why you have to wander vs having everything on the map or even on a message board.
It's a padding, pure and simple. Add up the time you spend wandering and eavedropping and you will be shocked. Around 40% of ME3's quests are of that type. Compounded by linking them to the ending meaning if you don't want to MP you have to do all of them.
Skyrim on the hand, well I'm guessing the last thing Skyrim needs is to have the game time padded. But take out those padding quests from ME3 and you are left with a very short game.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 20 avril 2012 - 12:04 .

[Ubergrog]

Damnit Priestly, don't give us straight lines like that..

it's so easy to say "Being consistently lazy just means you do it more often then being Consistently Diligent.

Which would open up a whole new can of worms.

Personally, I liked the mechanic, it made the world feel alive. Pity it was all for nothing after the entire galaxy ended in berry flavored explosions.

[Dukkhar]

In my opinion a few eavesdropquest would have been just fine, if the journal system had been better. Just like a few fetchquests, a few planetscanningquest, maybe even 1 escortquest would be fine. The problem for me is when one type of quest becomes so dominant that it feels like thats the only thing you do in the game.

[Objectivity]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

Personally, I like the eavesdrop concept. The problem was that the payoff for all of them was underwhelming. You didn't fully understand what they needed or where to go and when you stumbled across the item, the actual "fetch" was boring; it was just a text box. And, after that, you had to try to remember where the person was who wanted this item and stumble blindly until you found him (unless someone told you about using the RB button to scroll maps)

If some of those eavesdrop quests resulted in a hidden mission, like you found on some planets in ME2, then they would have been great. Every time you scanned a planet, you wouldn't know if you'd get a pop-up text box or a short side mission.

I don't think the complaints are so much about "eavesdrop quests" specifically, but the work vs. reward balance that exists with the quests.

To put it another way, when I finished Mass Effect 2, I spent several more hours completing quests I hadn't closed before the suicide mission. I scanned umpteen planets to find hidden missions I missed. The game felt like it hadn't ended, despite having seen the credits. With ME3, I got put back into the world and I have nowhere to go and nothing to do. It's not worth scanning planets because there's no thrill in finding a text box (plus I don't need whatever it is) and there are no other actions left to me except playing the final several missions again.

Obviously, that will change when DLC comes out, but until then I've been given a dead end and it's sad.

[FridgeRaider88]

Chris Priestly wrote...

As already mentioned, we had the same sort of quests in ME2.

So, if you believe that we cut content and are lazy... well... at least we're consistant.

But these are just things that could be found while doing other missions. There were a lot of examples of this on Illium, such as finding the family data for the salarian during Thane's recruitment mission or finding the data for Mr Thax during Samara's recruitment mission.

They were not in there to the exclusion of "proper" side quests where you actually land on a planet and do something.

Not really comparing apples with apples.

Modifié par FridgeRaider88, 20 avril 2012 - 01:37 .

[Rodia Driftwood]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

Are you serious?.  That's completely false. You could be walking around aimlessly around the Citadel and out of the blue you would get the "X Quest Added".

Look, I don't really think you guys were lazy about that. Those weren't the only side-quests in the game, and the other side-quests actually have content. I just think your post is completely bogus.

We're entitled to our stupid opinion, after all.

[mmu1]

Nimrodell wrote...

I'm not comparing Skyrim and ME on sandbox vs streamlined RPG level - I just said, you have the same thing in Skyrim too and it's not like you don't have anything to do in ME.

But is it the same thing? I don't think so. The "eavesdropping" quests in Skyrim are handled in a much more natural manner. For the most part, you overhear vague rumors that are being talked about in public, which you then have to investigate. Sometimes, you do actually eavesdrop on stuff that wasn't meant for you - but the quest then generally reflects the fact you're being somewhat shady. And most importantly, these things might actually lead you somewhere, like a cave you'll clear of bandits, or a hidden stash.

In Mass Effect 3, on the other hand, you just stand there and listen as people discuss their personal business in excessive detail, which feels contrived - and then, 90% of the time what follows doesn't remotely deserve the name "quest", it's a... task.  The original Diablo had "quests" with more substance than these damn things.

[deatharmonic]

ME2 - it was present, but in the background making itself heard every now and then
ME3 - first few times it was interesting, but it became overbearing, not pleasantly in the background - shouting in my ear.

The mechanic itself is okay, used too often it loses its appeal. What grates most is those who don't want to play multi-player HAVE to do these quests over and over and there's no variation in them! atleast in ME2 you could talk to the npc's and flex your characters personality a bit - It all just amounts to the reduction and simplification of the rpg experience.

[IdTheDemon]

It's a shame that the eavesdropping quests made up for most of the side quests.

I loved that in Mass Effect 1, even something small like the mother and her brother arguing for the baby or the husband who wanted his dead wifes body was an actual conversation and a high renegade/paragon score was needed for the best results. Same thing with Mass Effect 2.

Instead we mostly get either: scan a planet for this or collect this item during a quest. There are a few good quests though like the ones that involve Kasumi, Zaeed, Balak and my favorite one: Conrad Verner. Conrad Verner's quest was the best side quest in the game imo because it had multiple checks from Mass Effect 1 (Matriach writings, Elkross license, Hossle's data and saving Jenna). I would have loved to see a few more these, especially dealing with a lot of the stuff from Mass Effect 2 (Cerberus Rachni data, the two packets containing data on Aria, the Prothean sphere, etc).

[abaris]

IdTheDemon wrote...

I loved that in Mass Effect 1, even something small like the mother and her brother arguing for the baby or the husband who wanted his dead wifes body was an actual conversation and a high renegade/paragon score was needed for the best results. Same thing with Mass Effect 2.

Yup, and that's the point.

Similiar quests in ME3 can just be done as a runby attack. If you're fast enough at hitting the action button, you don't even have to break your stride for support X or Y.

Don't get me wrong, it adds life to the citadel. But if that and the scan to satisfy person X missions make up most of the side quests it gets old very fast.

[Temprathe]

I liked the eavesdropping quests, personally. Made sense given the situation. Sure, you were strapped for time in ME2 and ME3, but not so much that you couldn't actually stop and talk to someone and help them out with something.

Now you're trying to save the entire galaxy from a threat that has completely annihilated everyone before you.For the first half of the game you're just trying to gather everyone you can. I took the quests as Shepard simply walked by on business and would happen to overhear something, and would help if he/she happened to run by something.

...At least, until Kaiden asked me for a steak.