389 réponses à ce sujet

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Better BioWare take the four lines of dialogue from twenty lame side quests and uses that time to create a single conversation with a good character than invent twenty lame people to talk to and get a side quest from.

[chengthao]

Chris Priestly wrote...

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

No Chris, It's just lazy. Exploring and actually having a discussion is a lot more interesting than exploring and eavesdropping on someone.

Indeed? Please tell me what I like on a pizza or what ice cream I prefer while you are at it.

I'm sorry you didn't like it and found it lazy, but that I do is MY opinion, not yours.

no it is lazy

to make the game feel "grander" you add these little things to make it seem bigger when simply adding an extra world or an extra convo would've been better

with these eavesdrop missions, i care absolutely nothing about the person i'm helping and only doing it b/c it increases my EMS (which also turned out to be useless)

[The Confidence-Man]

Calling these "quests" is being too generous.

[chengthao]

Nimrodell wrote...

Wait, eavesdropping quests are ok if it's Skyrim but not ok if it's Mass Effect? Even in Oblivion I wasn't sure when NPCs are just talking and when it's actual quest and I didn't have that problem in Mass Effect 3 because either game itself would point me to those convos and support things or I'd resolve those quests by mere scanning. I really don't get how can people have so much of double-standards.

in skyrim, the eavesdropping quests actually took you on a quest, to explore a cave or house or town, etc, etc

most of the ME eavesdrop missions were "oh . . . the volus/turian/asari/elcor/batarian need their bible . . . . . let me go scan a planet and than bring it back and push A/X (360/PS3)"

[Martanek]

spyro396 wrote...

Whats the biggest issue in ME3 is the lack of vehicles or uncharted worlds, i was really dissapionted with that.

I am 100% with you on this mate. I sorely missed a vehicle of sorts and undiscovered planets in ME3. The Hammerhead was not all that great either but it gave me at least semblance of exploration on uncharted worlds. ME3 gave me neither.
How I liked the Mako! I may be in a minority here, but as I once said, it was not the vehicle itself that made exploration in ME kind of boring and monotonous, it was the lack of interesting content on those vast and empty planets in the first place.

[LEYN0S]

I think this comic sums it all up nicely.

[Eclipse merc]

Aahaha, that's pretty good

[Nimrodell]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Nimrodell wrote...

abaris wrote...

Nimrodell wrote...

Wait, eavesdropping quests are ok if it's Skyrim but not ok if it's Mass Effect? Even in Oblivion I wasn't sure when NPCs are just talking and when it's actual quest and I didn't have that problem in Mass Effect 3 because either game itself would point me to those convos and support things or I'd resolve those quests by mere scanning. I really don't get how can people have so much of double-standards.

Skyrim is a totally different game concept. And I'm not saying, I'm OK with the rather repetitive side quest system they introduced.

The ME series is storydriven without the free exploring system the Elder Scroll games offer.

And it's not so much that the eavesdrop quests exist, that's fine and dandy. It's that the make up about 90 percent of the side quests. Listen to some conversation. Stumble across something whilst scanning a planet. Drop that something off. And if you don't find it, buy it cheap at the spectre terminal and drop it off.

Again, I don't think, you can even compare ME with Skyrim, but in Skyrim you at least had to actually do something other than scanning or buying.

I'm not comparing Skyrim and ME on sandbox vs streamlined RPG level - I just said, you have the same thing in Skyrim too and it's not like you don't have anything to do in ME. To be honest, my choice would be Witcher system where both sandbox and streamlining are merged (though somewhat lacking in some other aspects that games like mass Effect and Dragon Age have - relations with companions and the fact that characters are not pre-determined) into new form, but that's not even the point. In Skyrim's chaos (I always describe it with Vanilla WoW famous line - Where is Mankirk's wife?) eavesdropping for getting quests is common thing, I just don't see what's the big deal if Mass Effect adopted that mechanic or is it in fact something else - all cool schoolkids and cheerleaders are currently bashing Mass Effect in every aspect, so lets find another thing that will bother us so we can stay in corner of being cool... As Mr. Chris Priestly said well in his stingy manner - well, at least they are consistent then. I just wonder what's next on table for bashing - wait, maybe someone will find that those ravager sacks are not realistic and gooey enough, which obviously implies that BW was lazy even in this aspect, those damned slackers. Now, lets see who'll be the first one to call me fangirl or **** for saying all this.

Do you really not get it ? I mean why you have to wander vs having everything on the map or even on a message board.
It's a padding, pure and simple. Add up the time you spend wandering and eavedropping and you will be shocked. Around 40% of ME3's quests are of that type. Compounded by linking them to the ending meaning if you don't want to MP you have to do all of them.
Skyrim on the hand, well I'm guessing the last thing Skyrim needs is to have the game time padded. But take out those padding quests from ME3 and you are left with a very short game.

Ofcourse that Skyrim doesn't need such time padding, you'll loose your time anyway by aimlessly wandering around or just killing random mobs while actually trying to find where's something located or what you actually need to do. Don't get me wrong, I hate all time padding mechanics in the games - I cursed zillion times that quest line in Witcher 2 where you find that message in 1st act about that boat you need to find in 2nd - god knows I lost hours just trying to find that damned thing and to be honest, I didn't find that thrilling at all - because that's not what I'm looking for in RPG (and when it comes to true exploration, well, lets just say, WoW didn't even had quests for all those forbidden zones I managed to enter and see). My point this whole time is - I just don't see what's the big deal now with eavesdropping quests, in Mass Effect 2 we would get those 'get info and fetch' just by mere scanning and in ME1 it was a tad different, there were simple 'find and fetch' qs like Matriarch Writings or eavesdropping ones like Rebekah and Michael Petrovsky, or  we would get a bit elaborate ones from Hackett by emails or again by deciphering something or overhearing something (Admiral Kahoku initial phone convo, etc.). ME3 had two types of side-quests, those 'find and fetch' that could be obtained by eavesdropping or mere scanning and ofcourse the ones we got from Traynor or someone else (Grissom academy or Ardat-Yakshi monastery etc.). I just don't see what's the big deal with eavesdropping quests, because we already had that mechanic in ME1 and other games.

[Reever]

Chris Priestly wrote...

As already mentioned, we had the same sort of quests in ME2.

So, if you believe that we cut content and are lazy... well... at least we're consistant.

I lol´d at this answer

I have to say I actually do like these kinds of quest, but then there should have been more of them (it´s also nice to "talk" to the person after doing the quest, there are some great responses/discussions afterwards  ).

[TheRealJayDee]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Better BioWare take the four lines of dialogue from twenty lame side quests and uses that time to create a single conversation with a good character than invent twenty lame people to talk to and get a side quest from.

Like my once favourite character Ashley, with whom I felt I didn't talk at all after the hospital? Seems to me I got less n both accounts...

[Saiyan1126]

AlanC9 wrote...

So if we count certain missions in a certain way ME3 has less of them? I'm not sure where we're going with this. Would any of the ME3 sidequests have been improved by Shepard having the opportunity to be a dick to people?

Or is the issue that there isn't enough interaction with NPCs generally? In that case, whether this happens in the couse of quests or not is really not all that relevant.

Wow this thread flew while I was gone. I'll reply to this and catch up on the rest later.

The reason I wouldn't count them is because they are part of the story. Loyalty missions were optional, yet still considered main mission. I don't count Ex-Squadmate missions to make a fair comparison (both are important to the story and both are missions about ME2 squadmates).

No, the ME3 quests wouldn't be improved by having the opportunity to be a dick. DaftPirate brought up the same point. These quests just aren't good. They don't work well with how the previous games established the side quest interaction. They'd have to be reworked so that it allowed Shepard's input. Currently there is no room for Shepard to do so, it's just "I need this". Bioware probably just didn't have enough time, so they cut corners. You could say that it's not important, but the illusion is everything in a non-linear game (especially a Mass Effect game). This really boils down to the overall problem with ME3, streamlining vs the illusion of choice. IMO this is way worse than ME2's streamlining vs RPG elements.

What irks me is how reps from Bioware are acting like what we have is perfect and just as intended. I'd like if they just admitted "Yeah we'd like it that way, but there just wasn't enough time". Of course they won't, because that will just open themselves up to more flak about their priorities.

Modifié par Saiyan1126, 20 avril 2012 - 03:41 .

[abaris]

Saiyan1126 wrote...

What irks me is how reps from Bioware are acting like what we have is perfect and just as intended. I'd like if they just admitted "Yeah we'd like it that way, but there just wasn't enough time". Of course they won't, because that will just open themselves up to more flak about their priorities.

Well, maybe it is as intended. For quite some time there's that mantra of broadening their audience which may be fine with them but always sounds like a dangerous threat to me. Broadening usually means less substance in those places that really matter to me. And that's one of these instances.

[crazyrabbits]

Chris Priestly wrote...

As already mentioned, we had the same sort of quests in ME2.

So, if you believe that we cut content and are lazy... well... at least we're consistant.

I'm curious - who made the decision to switch over the majority of sidequests from N7-based missions to fetch quests? Did someone higher up mandate that the N7 material be used as multiplayer maps instead of crafting campaign-only missions and assets?

You want from 19 N7 missions in the previous game (all of which were short, albeit varied and set in interesting locales) to a third of that in this game, while dramatically doubling the number of "scanning fetch quests" to 31. That doesn't seem like a problem to you?

And, as others have mentioned repeatedly, the broken journal system means that your mission list will be randomly filled every time you visit the Citadel, even if you're nowhere near the questgiver, and you'll often have to spend lots of time aimlessly running around to find the one person who can finish the quest. You can see it in virtually every online playthrough of this game. Did no one in your QA department notice this?

[Forsythia]

I didn't mind these quests, but yeah, I'd rather have a normal conversation with the NPC's. The journal made most of these quests impossible to complete, though, so thank the Maker for Google.

[lawp79]

I wouldn't actually mind them so much if it wasn't for the whole SP ems thing which pretty much means you have to do all of them (and that still isn't enough).

[Mirajin]

LEYN0S wrote...

I think this comic sums it all up nicely.

Haha oh my god this killed me!

[slimgrin]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

The concept is sound, I get that. But seeing how it was implemented, and more to the point, how often it was implemented made it seem like filler to me.

[meatsack]

I am a total OCD level explorer so the side mission eavesdropping worked for me. I do think they could have put more N7 mission assignments in ( coming from Hacket or Davidson ) related more to the struggle on earth but that just my 2 cents

[Skyhawk02]

I think this is one example of players just being too resistant to any kind of change. They already have their preconceptions about what a roleplaying game is "supposed" to be. So anything that strays from that they see as a bad thing, even if it's actually an improvement.

[Salfin]

Not all of the eavesdropping quests were bad. I enjoyed quite a few of them.

In fact there was a really good one, but I can't say anything about it in this forum

I'll just say that I think I made the wrong choice.

Modifié par Salfin, 20 avril 2012 - 04:50 .

[Stokie Stallion]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

I thought of this, i think this is why i liked it made me feel rewarded for taking my time.

[abaris]

Skyhawk02 wrote...

I think this is one example of players just being too resistant to any kind of change. They already have their preconceptions about what a roleplaying game is "supposed" to be. So anything that strays from that they see as a bad thing, even if it's actually an improvement.

It's getting less and less about roleplaying.

That's not change, that's what they call streamlining. Autodialogue for those too stupid or inpatient to click on a wheel, fetch quests that automatically fulfill themselves if you drop by the spectre supply computer and hand stuff over to someone you don't even know.

[-Skorpious-]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

I'm sorry Chris, but hopefully the majority of the development team DO NOT share your opinion on this matter. No matter how much you try and sugercoat it, interacting with an NPC to start a quest (like just about any sidequest in ME1) is immensely more satisfying and engaging than running around the Citadel having your journal mysteriously update at seemingly random times. "Eavesdropping" to start quests is not fun - it is unintuitive and absolutely boring. 

In my opinion of course. 

[Aisynia]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

Our opinions are more important than yours. We pay your bills.

[Chromie]

slimgrin wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Adeste Fideles wrote...

for me this was the single most disappointing aspect of me3. it's as if they weren't even trying anymore.

And I think this was one of the best parts of the game. There were "traditional" quests in the game, but having these"eavesdrop" quests were there for people who explored and paid attention.

The concept is sound, I get that. But seeing how it was implemented, and more to the point, how often it was implemented made it seem like filler to me.

Why the hell is Shepard even eavesdropping? Doesn't Shepard have more important stuff to do?