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[Naughty Bear]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Just got my copy. So excited!!! If its true this game has actual consequences and its not blowing smoke, I'll be one happy Sajji

Choices and consequences is the game's forte.
In addition to consequences being shown (as opposed to told) very well, one choice affects the ending of the first act, makes the second act almost completely different depending on your path, and has major differences in the 3rd Act.

Don't get my hopes up, Bioware did and i was crushed. 'm preparing to fight the Kayren, just can't beat the last bastard in arm wrestling.

Modifié par Naughty Bear, 22 avril 2012 - 11:36 .

[Chromie]

greengoron89 wrote...
 especially those of you putting it up against DA:O.

People have been comparing Witcher 1 to the DA franchise for a long time now!

Getting for Xbox or PC?

[Costin_Razvan]

Don't get my hopes up, Bioware did and i was crushed. 'm preparing to fight the Kayren, just can't beat the last bastard in arm wrestling.

It's all true actually.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Naughty Bear wrote...
Don't get my hopes up, Bioware did and i was crushed. 'm preparing to fight the Kayren, just can't beat the last bastard in arm wrestling.

I can explain in detail every choice and every consequence, but that's spoilery and you need to play it to see. I was skeptical until I played my 2nd playthrough.

greengoron89 wrote...

Hmm, I think I'm gonna go buy this
on... Tuesday, maybe. You folks have me interested enough in it that I'm
eager to play it now - especially those of you putting it up against
DA:O.

You know how much I love Origins right?
The Witcher 2 for me is just on another level.

[Sajji]

****This post contains ZERO story spoilers******

I love the fact this game doesn't hold your hand. Love the serious tone but the humor is still there if you understand and comprehend incredible writing like I do. Still getting a feel for combat, its more twitchy but I'm liking it a lot. The world has been meticulously crafted...what an unexpected treat!!!!! . This entire game. Still in the first act, taking my time...I don't want this game to blink by.

[Eternal Phoenix]

The Witcher really isn't like Origins. I don't get why people compare them. One is solely based on a set protagonist with little customization to be done and the other is about multiple characters and it's party based. Gameplay wise the two are different games and the choices and consequences are handled rather differently.

The Witcher handles consequences in that you see a change in the world. Origins handles consequences in that a character can be changed and could end up dead, alive or betraying you. The only consequence that actually changed the world was the choice whether or not to abandon Redcliffe in which case it gets destroyed by the undead and all but two characters survive.

The Witcher 1 didn't really appeal that much to me and I felt that the choices were just thrown in your face and after making a choice you have Geralt crying on the screen about how things might have been different if he took the second choice instead. I felt no attachment to the characters whatsoever and the only good part of the game IMO was that it's clearly a traditional RPG in the sense that the quests don't hold your hand. The quests were actually the best part of the game and I still remember that quest involving Geralt's two women - Shanni and Triss - where he gets drunk with his pals down at the pub to talk about which one he should choose and I believe they end up talking about marriage. Afterwards you go back to your LI drunk and stumble up to bed. That was good.

I really don't see why people compare the two games closely as the two handle features differently. DA is all about the characters whereas The Witcher is all about the choices and consequences along with quests. Compare them as RPG's but there aren't really that many close comparisons anywhere else to be made.

I think the comparisons all came down to the fact that both are calling themselves dark fantasy RPG's. I personally prefer DA's take more. The Witcher is all about how man can be a monster but DA handles a lot more involving the darkspawn, their taint, templars, mages and their persecution, demon possessions and even religion.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 23 avril 2012 - 10:47 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elton John is dead wrote...

The Witcher really isn't like Origins. I don't get why people compare them. One is solely based on a set protagonist with little customization to be done and the other is about multiple characters and it's party based. Gameplay wise the two are different games and the choices and consequences are handled rather differently.

I compare the two as story driven games and RPGs that both claim to have C&C. And for me, there is absolutely no doubt that TW2 has the better more mature and more complex story and setting, tackling more complicated issues rather well. In terms of C&C, TW2 blows DA:O out of the water. 

 The Witcher is all about how man can be a monster but DA handles a lot more involving the darkspawn, their taint, templars, mages and their persecution, demon possessions and even religion.

You clearly haven't played TW2 then.  Or even the first.
Monster slaying is always in the background. The story rather focuses on a lot of political issues (such as regional balance of power, domestic politics and international relations), minority persecution, mage politics, statebuilding, a new world order. And perhaps its biggest theme: even in the presence of the most terrifying of monsters, humans are still more dangerous and scarier.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 23 avril 2012 - 03:32 .

[Chromie]

Elton John is dead wrote...
I think the comparisons all came down to the fact that both are calling themselves dark fantasy RPG's. I personally prefer DA's take more. The Witcher is all about how man can be a monster but DA handles a lot more involving the darkspawn, their taint, templars, mages and their persecution, demon possessions and even religion.

Well you clearly don't know the difference between high fantasy and dark fantasy if you actually believe Dragon Age is dark fantasy.

[HoonDing]

Dark fantasy = fantasy with horror elements. Therefore, Dragon Age is dark fantasy.

[deuce985]

I've been playing through this game again on PC(Enhanced Edition).

Some things I just really love about this game and wish Bioware used it. Their exploration formula is fantastic. The world is big enough to where you never feel like everything has a artificial border and confinement. But not big enough to take you away from the story. That's the perfect blend of exploration+story. This is definitely something Bioware could learn from. That and a amazing engine. I forgot how good this game looked. I can run most stuff on ultra at max res...easily the best looking game. Better looking than BF3...IMO.

But I still stand by my comments about the story. One major problem I have with their writing is it's like they expect you to read the books. A lot of parts are very obvious references from the books but it leaves me confused on certain parts. Even reading their books. This is where I notice a huge difference in their writing compared to Bioware. It's not necessarily bad but doesn't mean I have to like it.

That being said, it's a wonderful game. Probably better than anything Bioware made recently except ME3, IMO. I'd like to see Bioware take the exploration and consequence formula from the Witcher games. That and more shades of gray. It's awesome how you can completely change settings based on a decision. If only Bioware was given a 3+ year dev cycle for a game under EA...

Modifié par deuce985, 23 avril 2012 - 07:23 .

[zeypher]

HoonDing wrote...

Dark fantasy = fantasy with horror elements. Therefore, Dragon Age is dark fantasy.

LOL, not sure if you are serious.
If you are .. gime a sec..
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAH

[android654]

Dragon Age is adorable, but was never meant to be taken seriously.

[PaulSX]

the second one has better writing and production value but the lack of gameplay depth in this is so sad for me. Still think the first witcher is a better game with better story. with Bioware and Bethesda taking all the customization and tactical combat elements out of their games, it seems this frnachise is going the same way.

[Seboist]

android654 wrote...

Dragon Age is adorable, but was never meant to be taken seriously.

DA:O's story failed to captivate me for even a moment. I only continued playing it for the few interesting characters like Alistair and Morrigan.

Then there's DA2.... and the less said about that POS the better.

[Chromie]

HoonDing wrote...

Dark fantasy = fantasy with horror elements. Therefore, Dragon Age is dark fantasy.

Lol your so adorable.

deuce985 wrote...
If only Bioware was given a 3+ year dev cycle for a game under EA...

CDProjekt took a little less than 4 years to develope not only Witcher 2 but the RED Engine.

Modifié par Skelter192, 23 avril 2012 - 09:04 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
You clearly haven't played TW2 then.  Or even the first. 
Monster slaying is always in the background. The story rather focuses on a lot of political issues (such as regional balance of power, domestic politics and international relations), minority persecution, mage politics, statebuilding, a new world order. And perhaps its biggest theme: even in the presence of the most terrifying of monsters, humans are still more dangerous and scarier.

I listed several features part of The Witcher and even one quest that is only reached chapters into the game and you question if I've played the game? You yourself have contradicted yourself with the sentence I have highlighted in bold. Keep in mind that the antagonist isn't a monster but is a man himself. All the other stuff is - as you said - background stuff.

Skelter192 wrote...
Well you clearly don't know the difference between high fantasy and dark fantasy if you actually believe Dragon Age is dark fantasy.

 

Didn't I just say that both call themselves dark fantasies? Argue with Bioware if you disagree because they're the one calling Origins a dark fantasy but if you want my opinion, I agree with Bioware. You can have a high fantasy setting but still make it a dark fantasy too. I guess it'll technically be a dark high fantasy. Dark Souls pretty much has a fantastic setting with gods, demons, dragons, undead and other creatures wondering about and yet it's a dark fantasy simply due to the grim world and grotesqueness of everything.

I don't know what qualifies as dark fantasy for you but Dragon Age has everything relating to a dark fantasy definition. The Darkspawn themselves are rather horrifying and when you get to the deep roads that's when the horror elements become even more dominent especially when you learn that women are transformed into those ugly creatures called Broodmothers. As the game progresses you see the world being attacked more by darkspawn through the random encounters and there's a feeling of grimness throughout the story. Darkspawn conquered territories are horrific and look like they have come straight out from a dark fantasy setting.

Then we have the rape in The City Elf origin, the racism (or specisim?), blood magic, demon possession (you could end up killing two children just to defeat demons) and political intrigue. What makes the matters even more horrific is what the player can do in these instances. In The City Elf origin you can take the money offered to you and let your bride and Shanni get raped. You can be racist yourself as a dwarf or elf and you can practice blood magic and end up making deals with demons while killing everyone under demonic possession includiing the two children in the game. You can betray all your companions if you wish and to top it all you can end up sacrificing those would-be elven slaves in a blood magic ritual to simply make you more powerful.

The whole artstyle of Origins also added to the atmosphere. The Deep Roads truly did feel creepy and all that stuff going on with Loghain and Arl Howe hardly scream "adorable" as another put it.

The Witcher simply contained a few sex cards, a bit of swearing, sexism, racism against the elves and dwarves, some blood, greyness (like Skyrim) and a few quests where you were left thinking about which choice is really the right choice to take and that was it. It's certainly got a dark mood to it but there's no locations that look anything like the Deep Roads or The Circle Tower.

Dark fantasy definition.

According to the definition above, Origins qualifies as a dark fantasy whether you agree or not.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 23 avril 2012 - 09:40 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elton John is dead wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
You clearly haven't played TW2 then.  Or even the first. 
Monster slaying is always in the background. The story rather focuses on a lot of political issues (such as regional balance of power, domestic politics and international relations), minority persecution, mage politics, statebuilding, a new world order. And perhaps its biggest theme: even in the presence of the most terrifying of monsters, humans are still more dangerous and scarier.

I listed several features part of The Witcher and even one quest that is only reached chapters into the game and you question if I've played the game? You yourself have contradicted yourself with the sentence I have highlighted in bold. Keep in mind that the antagonist isn't a monster but is a man himself. All the other stuff is - as you said - background stuff.

it's not background stuff at all. The Order / Socia'Tael conflict was not in the background. All the politics of The Witcher 2 are not in the bg. And it's more and better than anything DA:O did.

And there is no contradiction. What I highlighted means that the focus is on humans as they drive the story, with monsters being in the background.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 23 avril 2012 - 09:21 .

[android654]

deuce985 wrote...
If only Bioware was given a 3+ year dev cycle for a game under EA...

I've got to disagree with you there buddy. BW's problem with DA2 wasn't the length of time. I know a lot of people will sit through a game that can some times feel like a chore (Syberia, Dreamfall, Anachronox, Fallout 3) but it has has aspects that are so well done that you're willing to grit your teeth just so you can get backc to the better parts of the game. It's the same for movies like Vanilla Sky or books like The Girl Who Played With Fire. The problem with DA2 is that outside of banter and a few memorable characters DA2 has quite literally nothing that makes it feel like it was a labor of love, it just felt like it was done to make another title simply because.

While Dragon Age Origins had a lot I didn't care for outside of the characters, but there was clearly a lot done to make it feel like the produciton team cared about the outcome. That's why The Witcher games are so higly praised by a seemingly smaller group than all of BW's games this gen.

Modifié par android654, 23 avril 2012 - 09:44 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
You clearly haven't played TW2 then.  Or even the first. 
Monster slaying is always in the background. The story rather focuses on a lot of political issues (such as regional balance of power, domestic politics and international relations), minority persecution, mage politics, statebuilding, a new world order. And perhaps its biggest theme: even in the presence of the most terrifying of monsters, humans are still more dangerous and scarier.

I listed several features part of The Witcher and even one quest that is only reached chapters into the game and you question if I've played the game? You yourself have contradicted yourself with the sentence I have highlighted in bold. Keep in mind that the antagonist isn't a monster but is a man himself. All the other stuff is - as you said - background stuff.

it's not background stuff at all. The Order / Socia'Tael conflict was not in the background. All the politics of The Witcher 2 are not in the bg. And it's more and better than anything DA:O did.

And there is no contradiction. What I highlighted means that the focus is on humans as they drive the story, with monsters being in the background.

But the politics and mage stuff in The Witcher 1 is pretty much background stuff. It's the Salamanda, Alvin and The Order that is really important and the game keeps switching the emphasis to each subject as the game progresses.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elton John is dead wrote...
But the politics and mage stuff in The Witcher 1 is pretty much background stuff. It's the Salamanda, Alvin and The Order that is really important and the game keeps switching the emphasis to each subject as the game progresses.

Yes in TW1, I agree. But the Order / Socia'Tael conflict and the nonhuman issue is not in the bg and when it comes to the quality of how the issue was addressed, it beats everything Origins did. For me quality trumps quantity. TW2 has both.

[spirosz]

They're both different games that attract different types (or the same in some cases) of people, whats the point of comparing them? If you don't like one, or you think one does something better, so be it. They're both great games IMO and I enjoy both for different reasons and the thing is, both developers can learn a few things from each other, it's not just one sided as most people seem to believe.

[android654]

Some people have this weird need to see just about everything as being completely subjective when the situation leans too much to one side or another. If you look at DA2 or DA: O and The Witcher 2, and still have the audacity to say that they're of the level of quality then you're either lying or deluding yourself.