73 réponses à ce sujet

[Najarati]

I don't think I could operate on just Cryo Blast and Sentry Turret. I like having options so I run with fully evolved Sentry Turret, Cryo Blast, and Incinerate.

On a lark, I changed my weapon (typically a Carnifex) to a Falcon X the other night and equipped both Disruptor Rounds and a Power Efficiency Module. This was so much fun--lots of AoE damage/stun! Holding the line against waves of enemies was very easy. Heavies (like Atlases, Primes, and Banshees) took some time to bring down, but units like Phantoms and Guardians were no problem at all. Granted, these were silver matches, but I see this working well in gold, too. I'll have to give it a try.

The biggest downside was cooldown. Even with a Power Efficiency Module III it took just a hair longer than I'd like to switch between Cryo Blast and Incinerate. Still fun, though!

Modifié par Najarati, 20 avril 2012 - 08:21 .

[Wesus]

Drop fitness max cryo and incinerate

Works the best imho

[Sofie1991]

trying to play with this now, with armor penetration ammo instead of cryo on the turret, because it usually just targets 1 enemy anyway, and the additional damage on armored targets is very welcome.

I do find the carnifex to be a bit useless as an extra sidearm though. I found that my spree of SMG bullets does the trick just as good 99% of the time. So I might just pick weapon damage on the last quarian defender evolution aswell to be more in line with that. Aswell as pick the extended barrel instead of extended magazine.

It is as you say a support build though, it's not an "I OWN THIS ****" kind of character either anyway. It really requires your team to be in sync with what you're doing otherwise you're just a bullet spamming moron with an SMG ^^

[Rhaina]

Foregoing incinerate or a reduced level of incinerate to get smg weight or the damage bonus & higher fitness is not conducive to the notion of playing a support role. They only demonstrate concern for your individual character. The over use of cryo blast rather than properly weaving in incinerates does not support your teammates efficiently.

There are good parts to this thread, unfortunatly you're claiming to fulfill a support role while erroneously justifying the lack of a skill because it "doesn't fit in a support category", when in fact it is due to your misuse of the skill.

Your conjecture that there are just too many targets that you must keep frozen is not only situational it is unrepresentative of the majority of match time, but also shows that understanding of mechanics to alleviate such occurances is absent in this build.

Disagreeing with what I've pointed out wont make your build better or make you support your team better, it will only show the refusal to accept the game mechanics.

Please don't misunderstand my direct nature for attacking you, it is meant as constructive criticism aimed at properly approaching the class and guide to more properly provide others with accurate information.

Modifié par Rhaina, 20 avril 2012 - 06:08 .

[Ispano]

The problem I have with it, is that there's only a few things you can outright freeze. Shielded targets need their shields dropped first or they just get chilled, not to mention if they have armor and not health you still can't freeze them. Same Debuff(If you picked up those choices in Cryo), just not frozen. And ignoring that a Cryo -> Incinerate -> Cry Explosion can freeze enemies in a larger area than cryo alone is not helping you.

Modifié par Ispano, 20 avril 2012 - 07:24 .

[GreeceMonkE]

Sofie1991 wrote...

trying to play with this now, with armor penetration ammo instead of cryo on the turret, because it usually just targets 1 enemy anyway, and the additional damage on armored targets is very welcome.

I do find the carnifex to be a bit useless as an extra sidearm though. I found that my spree of SMG bullets does the trick just as good 99% of the time. So I might just pick weapon damage on the last quarian defender evolution aswell to be more in line with that. Aswell as pick the extended barrel instead of extended magazine.

It is as you say a support build though, it's not an "I OWN THIS ****" kind of character either anyway. It really requires your team to be in sync with what you're doing otherwise you're just a bullet spamming moron with an SMG ^^

I pretty much just use the carnifex for range and damaging larger targets like Brutes, Atlas, etc.

[GreeceMonkE]

Rhaina wrote...

Foregoing incinerate or a reduced level of incinerate to get smg weight or the damage bonus & higher fitness is not conducive to the notion of playing a support role. They only demonstrate concern for your individual character. The over use of cryo blast rather than properly weaving in incinerates does not support your teammates efficiently.

There are good parts to this thread, unfortunatly you're claiming to fulfill a support role while erroneously justifying the lack of a skill because it "doesn't fit in a support category", when in fact it is due to your misuse of the skill.

Your conjecture that there are just too many targets that you must keep frozen is not only situational it is unrepresentative of the majority of match time, but also shows that understanding of mechanics to alleviate such occurances is absent in this build.

Disagreeing with what I've pointed out wont make your build better or make you support your team better, it will only show the refusal to accept the game mechanics.

Please don't misunderstand my direct nature for attacking you, it is meant as constructive criticism aimed at properly approaching the class and guide to more properly provide others with accurate information.

I don't take yours or any criticism as attack on me at all. What gets me upset is when people act as if there way is fact, when it is in FACT, just another opinion (just because an opionion is widespread doesn't make it a fact).

I post my builds, so that others can see what I do. I am not saying my way is best or better than any other way. I know people have different preferecenes, but there might be others out there that have a similar play style like me and this information could be beneficial to them.

So to say my build is incomplete or not as effective is purely conjective, mainly because you are probably use to doing things a certain way. And thats fine because thats your way, this is mine.

Modifié par GreeceMonkE, 20 avril 2012 - 08:16 .

[Rhaina]

GreeceMonkE wrote...

I don't take yours or any criticism as attack on me at all. What gets me upset is when people act as if there way is fact, when it is in FACT, just another opinion (just because an opionion is widespread doesn't make it a fact).

I post my builds, so that others can see what I do. I am not saying my way is best or better than any other way. I know people have different preferecenes, but there might be others out there that have a similar play style like me and this information could be beneficial to them.

So to say my build is incomplete or not as effective is purely conjective, mainly because you are probably use to doing things a certain way. And thats fine because thats your way, this is mine.

An objective analysis of your build is subjective because of a lack of understanding game mechanics and as such, the facts being pointed out are now subjective and that using mechanics properly is not the way you intend to play the game, therefore any attempt to provide information outside your subjective method of play is struck down while concurrently being labeled as subjective, based solely on the grounds that you disagree.

[BraveLToaster]

Without Incinerate I wonder why one wouldn't just go Human Infiltrator for Cloak over Turret to capitalize on the 25% damage from Cryo.

[TSCIGAR]

I'm going to pop in because someone said something and no one's corrected it- with frozen vulnerability, you weaken armor by 50%, not 25%. That is all.

[Ispano]

TSCIGAR wrote...

I'm going to pop in because someone said something and no one's corrected it- with frozen vulnerability, you weaken armor by 50%, not 25%. That is all.

False

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Cryo_Blast

[TSCIGAR]

What do you think "weaken armor by an ADDITIONAL 25%" means? It might be different actual mechanic wise, but according to what they say and implication, then it adds more armor weakening, and the base for every armor weakening power is 25%.

Unless you're referring to the claim that it doesn't weaken armor at all, in which case I assume that would apply to the bonus from frozen vulnerability as well. It certainly seems to in game. Where's someone with the game data?

Modifié par TSCIGAR, 20 avril 2012 - 11:34 .

[Ispano]

Nope, you're right. The only problem now is how they add the percentages. It could be 50%, but it might just be 25% of whatever is left after the initial reduction.

[TSCIGAR]

I'm sorry, I edited for the player notes (which I don't trust). However. I'm pretty sure, like everything else in the game, it's additive, not multiplicative.

[Rhaina]

TSCIGAR wrote...

I'm sorry, I edited for the player notes (which I don't trust). However. I'm pretty sure, like everything else in the game, it's additive, not multiplicative.

If you're confused as to its mechanics you might find more clarification here:
http://social.biowar.../index/10712294

[IonSilverbolt]

I can understand putting all your points in cryo first. You have to be around level 16 to have both cryo and incinerate maxed along with turret. And that's only if you ignore the last 2 skill branches entirely.

Just having turret and cryo at first is fairly effective. Frozen and chilled targets die pretty quickly to gunfire even if you don't have incinerate yet.

Maxed cryo is a great team skill with the right team. It's amazing how much quicker atlases and banshees go down after they're cryo'ed, then hit with a widow shot or biotic explosion.

I'm not sure what the exact armor debuff number is. I didn't see anything definitive in those links. But there is also the 25% bonus applied from all weapon damage.

[GreeceMonkE]

Rhaina wrote...

GreeceMonkE wrote...

I don't take yours or any criticism as attack on me at all. What gets me upset is when people act as if there way is fact, when it is in FACT, just another opinion (just because an opionion is widespread doesn't make it a fact).

I post my builds, so that others can see what I do. I am not saying my way is best or better than any other way. I know people have different preferecenes, but there might be others out there that have a similar play style like me and this information could be beneficial to them.

So to say my build is incomplete or not as effective is purely conjective, mainly because you are probably use to doing things a certain way. And thats fine because thats your way, this is mine.

An objective analysis of your build is subjective because of a lack of understanding game mechanics and as such, the facts being pointed out are now subjective and that using mechanics properly is not the way you intend to play the game, therefore any attempt to provide information outside your subjective method of play is struck down while concurrently being labeled as subjective, based solely on the grounds that you disagree.

The " game mechanics " allow us to play anyway we want.

So there goes your arguement......

[GreeceMonkE]

IonSilverbolt wrote...

I can understand putting all your points in cryo first. You have to be around level 16 to have both cryo and incinerate maxed along with turret. And that's only if you ignore the last 2 skill branches entirely.

Just having turret and cryo at first is fairly effective. Frozen and chilled targets die pretty quickly to gunfire even if you don't have incinerate yet.

Maxed cryo is a great team skill with the right team. It's amazing how much quicker atlases and banshees go down after they're cryo'ed, then hit with a widow shot or biotic explosion.

I'm not sure what the exact armor debuff number is. I didn't see anything definitive in those links. But there is also the 25% bonus applied from all weapon damage.

Yes that is correct. Thats why I found myself using cyro blast and the turret way more than incinerate (actually I hardly used it at all during a match). So I decided to not use it at all, but that's just how I feel. Having both works very effectively for alot of people.

Modifié par GreeceMonkE, 21 avril 2012 - 02:08 .

[paincanbefun]

as far as criticism of your build goes, if you can play it, your team wins and you have fun, then do it.

i have a few thoughts about your build:

armor pen (which i believe affects the flamethrower) + flamethrower is significant aoe damage even on bosses and allows the turret to hold a checkpoint better, in my opinion, than rockets.

your lack of incinerate means that you can't cryoburst, which is, in my opinion, the whole point of the QE (especially as you went for cryo ammo, which would make bursting even easier.

personally, even on silver, i find her lack of personal effectiveness very frustrating. i have 6/6/6/5/3, so all my powers and the turret are hitting as hard as possible, and i'm a good shot, but i still have trouble doing anything other than constant support- which only works with a well coordinated team.

she doesn't get a lot of love, and she's definitely interesting and unique. kudos to you for playing her.

[GreeceMonkE]

paincanbefun wrote...

as far as criticism of your build goes, if you can play it, your team wins and you have fun, then do it.

i have a few thoughts about your build:

armor pen (which i believe affects the flamethrower) + flamethrower is significant aoe damage even on bosses and allows the turret to hold a checkpoint better, in my opinion, than rockets.

your lack of incinerate means that you can't cryoburst, which is, in my opinion, the whole point of the QE (especially as you went for cryo ammo, which would make bursting even easier.

personally, even on silver, i find her lack of personal effectiveness very frustrating. i have 6/6/6/5/3, so all my powers and the turret are hitting as hard as possible, and i'm a good shot, but i still have trouble doing anything other than constant support- which only works with a well coordinated team.

she doesn't get a lot of love, and she's definitely interesting and unique. kudos to you for playing her.

Thanks and kudos to you as for playing with her as well.

I never said its easy, but once you get use to her I find she can be amazing. I dont think the armor piercing rounds have an effect on the flamthower, as my Geth build has the flamethower as well and its seems to do the same if not more damage. Also since the bullets only do like 50 - 60 damage, I didn't see the point of using the armor piercing since the bonus only applies to the turret, but if a cryo round activates it applies to everyone. But thats just my opinion on how to go level up her turret.

Modifié par GreeceMonkE, 21 avril 2012 - 02:30 .

[Dorje Sylas]

I would throw out a wrinkle by saying that the Geth Plasma Shotgun seems to trigger Cryo Blasts when it kills a frozen target. This could very well be a bug and I have not tries with other weapons, but I do use it regularly a shotgun Infiltrator for that effect.

Could be useful to you on a build like this as your not packing anything to trigger those blasts and inferno is rather unreliable for getting them I've found.

[GreeceMonkE]

Dorje Sylas wrote...

I would throw out a wrinkle by saying that the Geth Plasma Shotgun seems to trigger Cryo Blasts when it kills a frozen target. This could very well be a bug and I have not tries with other weapons, but I do use it regularly a shotgun Infiltrator for that effect.

Could be useful to you on a build like this as your not packing anything to trigger those blasts and inferno is rather unreliable for getting them I've found.

Wow, thanks.

I am thinking maybe the GPS can trigger and electrical charge like overload. So that maybe why I have seen it trigger tech burst when using overload in my other builds.

Hmmm....I am wondering if this is true for all Geth Weapons.....

Will need to do some test.

Modifié par GreeceMonkE, 21 avril 2012 - 02:45 .

[veramis]

Rhaina, there can only be so many enemies on the field at any one time of a certain type per wave and depending on difficulty. It is a viable strategy on gold to freeze as much as you can to reduce the amount of damage your team takes and to make it easy to aim headshots, especially during mission objectives where enemies keep spawning in the wave until the objectives are complete.

Modifié par veramis, 21 avril 2012 - 10:54 .

[Ispano]

Basically by going without incinerate you're forgoing chances to make larger groups of frozen targets with a Cryo Explosion. You're reducing your damage in the theory of boosting others. But by not taking incinerate, you don't boost their damage even more, you actually reduce the overall kill speed of the group. Most enemies cannot be frozen, only chilled. So they still shoot at you. They die faster, but now that you;re not weaving incinerates in, you're not contributing to them dying as fast as if you did. Nor are you getting the larger radius Cryo Explosions.

[GreeceMonkE]

Ispano wrote...

Basically by going without incinerate you're forgoing chances to make larger groups of frozen targets with a Cryo Explosion. You're reducing your damage in the theory of boosting others. But by not taking incinerate, you don't boost their damage even more, you actually reduce the overall kill speed of the group. Most enemies cannot be frozen, only chilled. So they still shoot at you. They die faster, but now that you;re not weaving incinerates in, you're not contributing to them dying as fast as if you did. Nor are you getting the larger radius Cryo Explosions.

How many cryo explosions are you people getting?

On a good team when people are working together to get kills and not going off solo hunting. I can't imagine you are doing more than 5 a match. And its probably closer to 2-3.
 
Am I wrong?