444 réponses à ce sujet

[firebreather19]

There is only one difference between our cycle and the rest.

Shepard.

It's the only reason our throats weren't cut in our sleep in ME1, and it's why we got as far as ME3.

[Subject9x]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The occulus you fight in ME2 is scouting the debree field.

The harvesters you fight on tuchunka are scouting for the turian crash site.

actually the ME2 occuli seemed to be just hanging out, like a secutiry measure; only triggered when a ship came through.

So how come the Reaper capital ships around earth had to turn to face the allied fleet? wouldn't they have known that force was coming?

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Tleining wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

the protheans fought for centuries before being wiped out.  Logic suggests that they would be able to study Reaper corpses and develop thannnnnix cannnnnnons.

Logic suggests that that even if they were able to study a Reaper corpse in the middle of their fight for Survival, they would end up being indoctrinated.
Plus there is the Protheans aversion to anything AI. Javik wants you to space Legion and EDI. Not destroy and study, but get rid off it.

so then why wouldn't the remains of soverign indoctrinate everyone on the citadel?

actually thats a good question.  Why didnt Soverign's remains indoctrinate anyone on the Citadel??? 

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 20 avril 2012 - 03:10 .

[Jarys]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Subject9x wrote...

Jarys wrote...

Just one thing I would like to point out - 1500k in space is minuscule. The problem with viewing space battles as shown in ME is that they do not show true scale; everything moves blindingly fast (in the videos), since they move past landmarks/stars so quickly. Generally speaking, any true 'battle' in space would probably take place thousands of kilometers apart. Especially given how vacuum would allow lasers and other weapons to travel significantly further (forever, for non-laser weapons at least), and how radar can be boosted to such long ranges. The 'knife range' fighting shown in the video is unrealistic at best (lol at unrealistic sci fi, incoming flames), and suicidal at worst. Nothing in the series states that reapers are invisible to radar, and I have yet to see any sort of kinetic or non energy weapon used by them. Basically, the sound strategy would be to use the significant range advantage offered by projectile weapons (railguns, missles, etc.). But everything they do is to the reapers advantage, getting into laser range (lasers have significant range in space, but the dust particles cause it to still have significantly less range than physical weapons).

TLDR: You may be right in most cases, but the entire 'strategy' used by every fleet we see in ME is flawed beyond belief, and mostly suicidal, as opposed to one that stands a chance.

exactly, reapers don't seem to care about scouting...ever, so why can't I take those oribtal defense guns on tuchanka, plant a few Europa / ships, and bombard the earth reapers...according to cinematics they were all just hanging out..

The occulus you fight in ME2 is scouting the debree field.

The harvesters you fight on tuchunka are scouting for the turian crash site.

Trying to figure out how what you said is relevant in any way to what I said; I'm talking about capital ship and main fleet engagements. The reapers use exclusively energy weapons, occulus included (but not relevant, again..).

[Subject9x]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Tleining wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

the protheans fought for centuries before being wiped out.  Logic suggests that they would be able to study Reaper corpses and develop thannnnnix cannnnnnons.

Logic suggests that that even if they were able to study a Reaper corpse in the middle of their fight for Survival, they would end up being indoctrinated.
Plus there is the Protheans aversion to anything AI. Javik wants you to space Legion and EDI. Not destroy and study, but get rid off it.

so then why wouldn't the remains of soverign indoctrinate everyone on the citadel?

actually thats a good question.  Why didnt Soverign's remains indoctrinate anyone on the Citadel??? 

because indoctrination was just as badly botched as most other stuff about the Reapers <_<

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Subject9x wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The occulus you fight in ME2 is scouting the debree field.

The harvesters you fight on tuchunka are scouting for the turian crash site.

actually the ME2 occuli seemed to be just hanging out, like a secutiry measure; only triggered when a ship came through.

So how come the Reaper capital ships around earth had to turn to face the allied fleet? wouldn't they have known that force was coming?

having abunch of occuli set up arround a relay to activate when something gets near is a method of scouting, bro!

also thats because the reapers that were facing the other way said "yo homes theres some guys in that direction"  "oh **** let me check that out"

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 20 avril 2012 - 03:12 .

[hammyhamstersy]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

hammyhamstersy wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

hammyhamstersy wrote...

I would LOVE to see Shep doing that!  I thought it was pretty hilarious that Shep got off the shuttle and fought the reaper on FOOT.  

Well I mean EVERYONE complained about that turret sequence from e3, even the crowds at e3.  shepard heard us and said "Hang on i'm just gonna run back and forth on a shelf instead"

Personally i wish the shelf scene didnt have to involve 3 lazerblasts to the face!!  :/

also a thresher maw probably couldnt beat soverign or harbinger.  Look at it this way: Reapers were so strong that Bioware had to create little baby reapers just so we'd be able to blow some up in this game.  The art book basicly says this outright.  

The first time I played that scene I was first dumbfounded and then I just started laughing hysterically.  The fact that this 'baby' reaper had this slow ass cannon was even more funny and the fact that you can ROLL out of its way.  And also the fact that Shep knew it would work!!  

So that's right the way to win this war against reaper conventionally is to STOP, DROP, and ROLL.  Forget Thanix cannons, just implement the tech that allows your starships to strafe and roll and shoot.  Granted your ships will be filled with vomit afterwards but hey if it works why not??  

Man its a good thing shepard developed stop drop and roll techniques inbetween me2 and me3!  I doubt shepard of me1 would stand a CHANCE.

No but serious the shelf battle was about as poorly thought out as the REALLY LONG STRETCHES OF RUNNING you have to do during the geth consensus segment.  They should have shortened that by like....a ton.  (Having to shoot the destroyer 3 times was stupid and videogamey)

What's even more hilarious is that the reaper moves closer each time to try to get a better aim!!! And Shep's like 'Nope imma still be rolling out of the way!'

I can just imagine the reaper's frustration!!  whatever civilization that got melted to make that reaper must have been really slow or something... 

Wait I can imagine it now....

Mass Effect 4 Codex:

The SDR technique:

An ultimate and advanced combat technique developed and perfected by Commander Shepard during the battle against the reaper destroyer, aka 'The Dimwit', on Rannoch.  The stop, drop, and roll technique, or SDR as it is commonly referred to by Alliance forces, involves the precise combination of centripetal and centrifugal forces to one's own body that effectively nullifies all enemy VI or AI targeting systems.  Without such targetting prediction matrices, most if not all starships, regardless of class type, would be unable to do any real damage to their targets.  When this technique is performed at FTL speeds in the arena of space combat, most dreadnought-class starships will just simply self implode due to frustration heat building in their over-sized EEZO cores.

Widely distributed to all Alliance forces during the Battle of Earth, this technique singlehanded defeated the reaper with minimal casualties.  The only known substantial loss consisted of turian, krogan, and batarian forces whose skeletal formation limited the use of this advanced technique.  Notable casualty on the Alliance forces consisted of one Conrad Verner who SDR'd in a forward motion instead of a sideways one.


       

Modifié par hammyhamstersy, 20 avril 2012 - 03:16 .

[FS3D]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

FS3D wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

If the reapers build a new reaper every 50,000 years one hundred of billion years (Which is still a low estimate of how long the reapers have actually been in power) then that still gives them well upwards of 20,000 capital reapers.  Every hundred billion years upwards of that increases this number to STAGGERING levels.  we dont even have a thousand dreadnaughts at our disposal.  even 10,000 capital reapers would completely steamroll us.

Problem...

The universe has been measured at about 13.7 billion years old. It's not possible for the Reapers to have been operating before the zero-space singularity that resulted in the creation of our universe, and matter didn't form until some time after the universe began its' expansion (when the heat within space-time had sufficiently cooled to allow matter to form).

Even if you take suspension of disbelief into space magic realms, the Reapers could not have existed for hundreds of billions of years. That would mean they existed outside of the space-time reality of the universe itself.

You're going up against real honest science.

oh man we might as well start talking about how its impossible to travel faster than the speed of light then too or how biotics dont actually make any sense at all 

Seriously? I appreciate suspension of disbelief but inventing time travel just to allow the Reapers to exist for "hundreds of billions of years" is way too much of a stretch. It takes the game from "physically-infeasible but good for plot device reasons" to "completely and utterly absurd and logically would never happen no matter how many mental gymnastics you do to try and make it work".

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Jarys wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Subject9x wrote...

Jarys wrote...

Just one thing I would like to point out - 1500k in space is minuscule. The problem with viewing space battles as shown in ME is that they do not show true scale; everything moves blindingly fast (in the videos), since they move past landmarks/stars so quickly. Generally speaking, any true 'battle' in space would probably take place thousands of kilometers apart. Especially given how vacuum would allow lasers and other weapons to travel significantly further (forever, for non-laser weapons at least), and how radar can be boosted to such long ranges. The 'knife range' fighting shown in the video is unrealistic at best (lol at unrealistic sci fi, incoming flames), and suicidal at worst. Nothing in the series states that reapers are invisible to radar, and I have yet to see any sort of kinetic or non energy weapon used by them. Basically, the sound strategy would be to use the significant range advantage offered by projectile weapons (railguns, missles, etc.). But everything they do is to the reapers advantage, getting into laser range (lasers have significant range in space, but the dust particles cause it to still have significantly less range than physical weapons).

TLDR: You may be right in most cases, but the entire 'strategy' used by every fleet we see in ME is flawed beyond belief, and mostly suicidal, as opposed to one that stands a chance.

exactly, reapers don't seem to care about scouting...ever, so why can't I take those oribtal defense guns on tuchanka, plant a few Europa / ships, and bombard the earth reapers...according to cinematics they were all just hanging out..

The occulus you fight in ME2 is scouting the debree field.

The harvesters you fight on tuchunka are scouting for the turian crash site.

Trying to figure out how what you said is relevant in any way to what I said; I'm talking about capital ship and main fleet engagements. The reapers use exclusively energy weapons, occulus included (but not relevant, again..).

Why would they scout using capital ships?

thats like saying we should scout using aircraft carriers.  :/

how what i said has to do with what you said: it was moments in the previous games where reapers deployed scouts to find organics.

You assume that the reapers are total idiots that just sit in space and float arround waiting for fleets to show up and shoot at them.  If reapers are occupying the planet why would they let ships carrying big fat guns through to deploy on the surface?  Its kind of a sketchy proposal overall.

[Subject9x]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

having abunch of occuli set up arround a relay to activate when something gets near is a method of scouting, bro!

also thats because the reapers that were facing the other way said "yo homes theres some guys in that direction"  "oh **** let me check that out"

lolz, I'll just leave this right here
http://en.wikipedia..../Reconnaissance 

but because I'm a fair guy - tl; dr.

"Reconnaissance[/b] is the military term for exploring beyond the area occupied by friendly forces to gain information about enemy forces or features of the environment."

ME2 occuli would have had to have been encountered outside the galactic core to count as 'scouting'

Tuchanka? in a sense, yes that was scouting; though I have no idea why. Thessia wasn't 'scouted' and the reapers dove into them with relish.

but this is splitting hairs, with proper tactics or even the idea of adhereing to tactics, allied forces could have won out. 

Modifié par Subject9x, 20 avril 2012 - 03:20 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

FS3D wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

FS3D wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

If the reapers build a new reaper every 50,000 years one hundred of billion years (Which is still a low estimate of how long the reapers have actually been in power) then that still gives them well upwards of 20,000 capital reapers.  Every hundred billion years upwards of that increases this number to STAGGERING levels.  we dont even have a thousand dreadnaughts at our disposal.  even 10,000 capital reapers would completely steamroll us.

Problem...

The universe has been measured at about 13.7 billion years old. It's not possible for the Reapers to have been operating before the zero-space singularity that resulted in the creation of our universe, and matter didn't form until some time after the universe began its' expansion (when the heat within space-time had sufficiently cooled to allow matter to form).

Even if you take suspension of disbelief into space magic realms, the Reapers could not have existed for hundreds of billions of years. That would mean they existed outside of the space-time reality of the universe itself.

You're going up against real honest science.

oh man we might as well start talking about how its impossible to travel faster than the speed of light then too or how biotics dont actually make any sense at all 

Seriously? I appreciate suspension of disbelief but inventing time travel just to allow the Reapers to exist for "hundreds of billions of years" is way too much of a stretch. It takes the game from "physically-infeasible but good for plot device reasons" to "completely and utterly absurd and logically would never happen no matter how many mental gymnastics you do to try and make it work".

rofl you're serious?  You really have a problem with the idea that the reapers could exist as far back as longer than the theoretical existence of our galaxy?  

OH MAN


I dont think I want to even GET YOU STARTED on the problems you must have with PSYCHIC SPACE SHIPS in my mass effect.  :lol:

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 20 avril 2012 - 03:18 .

[Elyiia]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

We do see the Alliance use thanix cannons.

Fair enough, doesn't stop them from being retconned between ME2 and ME3.

how is that a retcon between me2 and 3?  The screenshots he posted are FROM 3

Their power was retconned, they went from being able to nearly bypass a Reaper's shields to being just better than a normal kinetic canon.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Subject9x wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

having abunch of occuli set up arround a relay to activate when something gets near is a method of scouting, bro!

also thats because the reapers that were facing the other way said "yo homes theres some guys in that direction"  "oh **** let me check that out"

lolz, I'll just leave this right here
http://en.wikipedia..../Reconnaissance 

but because I'm a fair guy - tl; dr.

"Reconnaissance[/b] is the military term for exploring beyond the area occupied by friendly forces to gain information about enemy forces or features of the environment."

ME2 occuli would have had to have been encountered outside the galactic core to count as 'scouting'

Tuchanka? in a sense, yes that was scouting; though I have no idea why. Thessia wasn't 'scouted' and the reapers dove into them with relish.

by that defenition we could call reaper indoctrinates scouts.  (and probably should)

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 20 avril 2012 - 03:23 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Elyiia wrote...


Their power was retconned, they went from being able to nearly bypass a Reaper's shields to being just better than a normal kinetic canon.

how is it a retcon if its the first time it was used against a reaper's shields?  Wouldn't that be called "putting a theory into practice"??

to me thats just "we under-estimated how powerful reaper shields were"...

[FS3D]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

rofl you're serious?  You really have a problem with the idea that the reapers could exist as far back as longer than the theoretical existence of our galaxy?  

OH MAN


I dont think I want to even GET YOU STARTED on the problems you must have with PSYCHIC SPACE SHIPS in my mass effect.  :lol:

You're a troll... Nothing more.

I'll say it once only, in as simple a terminology as I can muster so that even you can understand.

The known age of the very universe itself is 13.7 Billion Years Old.

That's all there is to it.

Yes, it's impossible with what we currently know to travel faster than light speed, but ways around it are invented for plot device reasons because otherwise, any story we write is confined to our own planetary system, and that could get boring very quickly.

Yes it's impossible to imagine how Biotic powers could work, but it works because it allows for powers to be granted to species to make combat and story points interesting. Suspension of disbelief is possible because ways can be found to make these ideas work.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYTHING OR ANYONE TO EXIST BEYOND THE AMOUNT OF SPACE-TIME ITSELF. AND NO AMOUNT OF CONVOLUTED SPACE MAGIC WILL CHANGE THIS FACT.

In addition, there is no need for "hundreds of billions of years" when it comes to the Reapers, so why you persist in this infantile troll-like manner in trying to justify your childish fantasy of having the Reapers exist for "hundreds of billions of years" is beyond any sane person on this planet.

Now do you get it? Or is your thinking so muddled that you make a Creationist look like an intelligent person?

Modifié par FS3D, 20 avril 2012 - 03:26 .

[Subject9x]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

by that defenition we could call reaper indoctrinates scouts.

indoctrination counts more towards espionage because the indoctrinated individual may not have any military capacity or any role inside armed forces. Also, what is indoctrination? in the book Retribution, paul grayson is injected with reapers tech so that the reapers now see what he sees and control his body. Does normal indoc do this? if so, then yeah the writing botches indoctrination badly.

[Tleining]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

so then why wouldn't the remains of soverign indoctrinate everyone on the citadel?

actually thats a good question.  Why didnt Soverign's remains indoctrinate anyone on the Citadel??? 

the derelict Reaper had an intact eezo-core. Sovereign was blown to pieces. Apparently Indoctrination requires a Power-Source.

[EintagsBigB]

FS3D wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

rofl you're serious?  You really have a problem with the idea that the reapers could exist as far back as longer than the theoretical existence of our galaxy?  

OH MAN


I dont think I want to even GET YOU STARTED on the problems you must have with PSYCHIC SPACE SHIPS in my mass effect.  :lol:

You're a troll... Nothing more.

I'll say it once only, in as simple a terminology as I can muster so that even you can understand.

The known age of the very universe itself is 13.7 Billion Years Old.

That's all there is to it.

Yes, it's impossible with what we currently know to travel faster than light speed, but ways around it are invented for plot device reasons because otherwise, any story we write is confined to our own planetary system, and that could get boring very quickly.

Yes it's impossible to imagine how Biotic powers could work, but it works because it allows for powers to be granted to species to make combat and story points interesting. Suspension of disbelief is possible because ways can be found to make these ideas work.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYTHING OR ANYONE TO EXIST BEYOND THE AMOUNT OF SPACE-TIME ITSELF. AND NO AMOUNT OF CONVOLUTED SPACE MAGIC WILL CHANGE THIS FACT.

In addition, there is no need for "hundreds of billions of years" when it comes to the Reapers, so why you persist in this infantile troll-like manner in trying to justify your childish fantasy of having the Reapers exist for "hundreds of billions of years" is beyond any sane person on this planet.

Now do you get it? Or is your thinking so muddled that you make a Creationist look like an intelligent person?

Your are right, but the point of Dr_Jackstraw only was that given the current data of reaper existence (>1bilion years) their number of capital ships would still be 20.000. You could say that they had a few casulties in every cycle, so lets cut the number to a half. That would still make 10.000.  These are alot of ships which people want to blast away with conventional weaponry. I don't think anybody wants to distpute the fact that existence for more than 13billion years is possible.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

FS3D wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

rofl you're serious?  You really have a problem with the idea that the reapers could exist as far back as longer than the theoretical existence of our galaxy?  

OH MAN


I dont think I want to even GET YOU STARTED on the problems you must have with PSYCHIC SPACE SHIPS in my mass effect.  :lol:

You're a troll... Nothing more.

I'll say it once only, in as simple a terminology as I can muster so that even you can understand.

The known age of the very universe itself is 13.7 Billion Years Old.

That's all there is to it.

Yes, it's impossible with what we currently know to travel faster than light speed, but ways around it are invented for plot device reasons because otherwise, any story we write is confined to our own planetary system, and that could get boring very quickly.

Yes it's impossible to imagine how Biotic powers could work, but it works because it allows for powers to be granted to species to make combat and story points interesting. Suspension of disbelief is possible because ways can be found to make these ideas work.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYTHING OR ANYONE TO EXIST BEYOND THE AMOUNT OF SPACE-TIME ITSELF. AND NO AMOUNT OF CONVOLUTED SPACE MAGIC WILL CHANGE THIS FACT.

In addition, there is no need for "hundreds of billions of years" when it comes to the Reapers, so why you persist in this infantile troll-like manner in trying to justify your childish fantasy of having the Reapers exist for "hundreds of billions of years" is beyond any sane person on this planet.

Now do you get it? Or is your thinking so muddled that you make a Creationist look like an intelligent person?

Wow you completely missed my point and wrote it off as simple trolling.

the reapers very EXISTENCE flies against the realities of our universe.  so much of the game goes against our understanding of reality.  The idea of the reapers existing any billions of years in the past or just being able to fly from dark space into our galaxy and into another system is completely illogical and requires as much of a suspension of disbelief as biotics or psychic space ships.  Most aliens in the universe are a suspension of disbelief (collectors, vorcha, asari) and could not exist in any real capacity outside of this story.  the length at which reapers have existed in our society is irrelevant to our understanding of the galaxy because of that work of fiction, its a reasonable suspension of disbelief.  100 billion years was an example, not a crutch.  even 3 billion years would produce more potential reaper harvests than we would know what to do with.  that is what my arguement was, not how it reacted to actual scientific knowledge in reality.  thats what was funny, that you took THAT seriously above all things, its ridiculous.  (watch i bet you'll just jump on what i said in this last sentence even though i addressed it in the rest of the paragraph)


And yeah, 1bill being the minimum means at least 20k attempts.  the idea of killing 10,000 reapers is still kind of crazy especially considering even just a thousand reapers could wipe out all life in the galaxy over a few centuries.


If theres one thing this thread has made me realise though, is how implausible and silly the entire space battle in the sol system really is.  :E

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 20 avril 2012 - 03:42 .

[Subject9x]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

FS3D wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

rofl you're serious?  You really have a problem with the idea that the reapers could exist as far back as longer than the theoretical existence of our galaxy?  

OH MAN


I dont think I want to even GET YOU STARTED on the problems you must have with PSYCHIC SPACE SHIPS in my mass effect.  :lol:

You're a troll... Nothing more.

I'll say it once only, in as simple a terminology as I can muster so that even you can understand.

The known age of the very universe itself is 13.7 Billion Years Old.

That's all there is to it.

Yes, it's impossible with what we currently know to travel faster than light speed, but ways around it are invented for plot device reasons because otherwise, any story we write is confined to our own planetary system, and that could get boring very quickly.

Yes it's impossible to imagine how Biotic powers could work, but it works because it allows for powers to be granted to species to make combat and story points interesting. Suspension of disbelief is possible because ways can be found to make these ideas work.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYTHING OR ANYONE TO EXIST BEYOND THE AMOUNT OF SPACE-TIME ITSELF. AND NO AMOUNT OF CONVOLUTED SPACE MAGIC WILL CHANGE THIS FACT.

In addition, there is no need for "hundreds of billions of years" when it comes to the Reapers, so why you persist in this infantile troll-like manner in trying to justify your childish fantasy of having the Reapers exist for "hundreds of billions of years" is beyond any sane person on this planet.

Now do you get it? Or is your thinking so muddled that you make a Creationist look like an intelligent person?

Wow you completely missed my point and wrote it off as simple trolling.

the reapers very EXISTENCE flies against the realities of our universe.  so much of the game goes against our understanding of reality.  The idea of the reapers existing any billions of years in the past or just being able to fly from dark space into our galaxy and into another system is completely illogical and requires as much of a suspension of disbelief as biotics or psychic space ships.  Most aliens in the universe are a suspension of disbelief (collectors, vorcha, asari) and could not exist in any real capacity outside of this story.  the length at which reapers have existed in our society is irrelevant to our understanding of the galaxy because of that work of fiction, its a reasonable suspension of disbelief.  100 billion years was an example, not a crutch.  even 3 billion years would produce more potential reaper harvests than we would know what to do with.  that is what my arguement was, not how it reacted to actual scientific knowledge in reality.  thats what was funny, that you took THAT seriously above all things, its ridiculous.  (watch i bet you'll just jump on what i said in this last sentence even though i addressed it in the rest of the paragraph)


And yeah, 1bill being the minimum means at least 20k attempts.  the idea of killing 10,000 reapers is still kind of crazy especially considering even just a thousand reapers could wipe out all life in the galaxy over a few centuries.

But this still doesn't take into account evolution not being able to produce sentient life every 50k years. On an evolutionary and galactic timescale that's just too short of a window. And as far as I know the ME universe primarily adheres to the rules of evolution, fictional alien design notwithstanding. 

Modifié par Subject9x, 20 avril 2012 - 03:42 .

[ZtalkerRM]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I've never understood the counterpoint of "Plot armor" as a reason why the Reapers cannot be defeated with conventional weapons.

If they could, couldn't one simply state that it's "Plot weakness?" It would seem that "Plot Armor" could be used for any defense of a story playing through in a way a person doesn't want since ultimately it's up to the writers to lay out the narrative?

Well...do you watch Game of Thrones or read the books? Basically no-one in the entire series there has plot armor. It makes for a very interesting read/watch. I know...stuff is coming in the series and people will dislike it because they've gotten used to characters that will get killed off in wimpy (but realistic) ways. It's..fascinating to see a series that despises the use of plot armor like that.

I suspect that, as a Bioware employee, you are familiar with the Star Wars novels who have gone on using an insanely bad plot shield. Luke, Han, Leia basically can't die and all stay young. They're (canonically) in their 60's now and are still doing the same stuff they did in the movies. It's...very bad. Every book ends basically with Luke crashing his fighter, outnumbered 12 to 1 by Sith, or stuff like that. You know he'll pull a Chuck Norris though. It's bad. Very bad.

It's Bioware's power to steer away from this. The dark-side ending of kotor reflected this perfectly. Almost everyone could die. Character that you grew dependant on that were used to move the plot ahead. I hope you guys can keep pulling that off.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Subject9x wrote...

But this still doesn't take into account evolution not being able to produce sentient life every 50k years. On an evolutionary and galactic timescale that's just too short of a window. And as far as I know the ME universe primarily adheres to the rules of evolution, fictional alien design notwithstanding. 

that would only matter if evolution happened on the same planet.
If the reapers destroy the atmosphere of 14 worlds, thats still not going to have an impact on the rest of the galaxy's burgeoning life.  in ten million years those planets that were devastated could have new civilizations developing.  Remember all the stuff javik said about the species of our cycle from his time?  its not really a problem.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 20 avril 2012 - 03:49 .

[Subject9x]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

that would only matter if evolution happened on the same planet.
If the reapers destroy the atmosphere of 14 worlds, thats still not going to have an impact on the rest of the galaxy's burgoning life.  in ten million years those planets that were devastated could have new civilizations developing.  Remember all the stuff javik said about the species of our cycle from his time?  its not really a problem.

timescale in terms of determining reaper numbers, if the protheans couldnt be turned into one and all the races of their time were wiped, how many other times could this happen? Not to mention species being wiped out by non-reaper related extinction events: like asteroids, gamma ray bursts, etc. To assume that sentient life will always spring forth every 50k years is itself quite the assertion, especially in light of how few planet's we've identified that are in the 'goldilocks' zone of their home star. 

Though the idea that the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs 65million years ago was actually a mass accelerator round sounds awesome anyway

[Sgt Stryker]

Elyiia wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

We do see the Alliance use thanix cannons.

Fair enough, doesn't stop them from being retconned between ME2 and ME3.

how is that a retcon between me2 and 3?  The screenshots he posted are FROM 3

Their power was retconned, they went from being able to nearly bypass a Reaper's shields to being just better than a normal kinetic canon.

I don't remember shooting any Reapers with the Thanix cannon in ME2. The Collector Cruiser doesn't count; it's well established that it's a glass cannon.

[humes spork]

Elyiia wrote...

It's not about the cost, it's about the safety mechanism.

Nigh impossible. That means it is possible, but there are reasons that prohibit its use beyond physical impossibility. Allow me to quote that entire paragraph and not merely what you selectively edited, emphasis mine:

Meanwhile, starships are too costly to be used as projectiles, given that it would take many collisions to seriously harm a Reaper. Some armchair admirals suggest that a single starship traveling faster than light could obliterate a Reaper capital ship, but all ships based on mass effect technology possess hardwired safety features to prevent FTL collisions. If a ship's FTL plotter finds a significant object in the path of a planned jump, the FTL drive refuses to fire in the first place. This is not a perfect safety feature--the sensors can only scan for objects within a reasonable distance at light speed, and a navigator must plot the rest of the course--but it is so inherent to the FTL warm-up process that removing it is nigh impossible. Cynical intelligence analysts note that the secret of mass effect technology, including that safety system, has always been attributed to the Protheans--just as the mass relays were. 

1. Starships are too valuable to be wasted attempting this, especially when Reapers are targeting manufactories, shipyards and industrial centers to undermine organics' capability to wage war in the first place.

2. Colliding an FTL starship with a Reaper is only theorized by what the codex refers to as "armchair admirals" (i.e. unauthoritative sources) to potentially work.

3. By saying removal of the FTL safety features is "nigh" impossible to remove, the codex implies it is possible but doing so would not be a productive use of time, especially in light of my first point.

Yes, it is about cost -- cost in starships and the time it would take to workaround or disable FTL safety features.

Modifié par humes spork, 20 avril 2012 - 04:37 .