444 réponses à ce sujet

[A0170]

grey_wind wrote...

While a conventional victory seems unlikely in ME3 due to the way the Reapers and plot are written, it would be far more fitting thematically than "OMG, I found a superweapon in my backyard at the last minute! I have no idea what it does but let's use it anyway!"
In fact, I'd argue that ME2 was basically setting the plot up for a victory attained by strength through unity.

I agree with a lot of what your saying. I was okay with the idea of the Crucible, but as we all know how that idea was executed was extremely poor. But I'm just saying, with the ingame evidence provided in the Codex and beyond, it just doesn't seem probable that we could win. We'd put up a hell of a fight for sure, and like I said maybe we'd set up the Yahg for a final victory in their cycle, but as the ingame info stands now a conventional victory is near impossible.

[A0170]

Drummernate wrote...

Step 1:
Go back in time.

Step 2:
Show the Reapers the endings.

Step 3:
They all go away because they realize how stupid that would be.

Step 4:
Profit.

Genius!

[ashwind]

Besides firepower and protection, Reapers Capital Ships are cyborg with reflexes and processing power that cant be match by organic response time. Perhaps only the Normandy with EDI and Geth Dreadnoughts can match their processing performance to some degree.

The Reapers sent enough of them to Palaven to "overwhelm" Turians while doing the same to Earth and Thessia. Hence, the Reapers no doubt have the largest fleet up there because they can fight multiple fronts with overwhelming force.

Besides the huge epic space battle, we would still need to deal husk! There are always more civilians than military personals, the Reapers basically have as many ground troops as the galaxy have civilians. Even if we manage to bog them down in space, we would still have to deal with the ground forces. You cant win any war without winning the ground war.

Reaper Capital Ship VS Dreadnoughts are like German Tiger VS Ally Sherman. 1300 Tigers were built and the allies made 50,000 Shermans. So if 4 Dreadnought = 1 Capital Ship, if there were 100 Capital Ships, you need 800 Dreadnoughts to ensure victory.

[Delta9819]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

In ME3 we were victims of the Council and Council member races sitting around with their thumbs up their asses, including EARTH refusing to recognize the reaper threat, even though there was cold hard evidence on the Citadel -- cited by Bailey "they still haven't cleaned up half that thing." in ME2 after two years.

The sat around and went "Duh, uh..., do you think that might just be Geth technology? Do you think maybe we should ask the Quarians about this?"

Turian Councilor: Quarians? Those suit rats? They'll get here on the Citadel and steal us blind. Everyone knows those with Eastern European accents are like that. And besides, they're not members of the Council so that means they're just stupid just like the Volus and Elcor. No offense to you Din.

Din: None .... taken.... sir.

Salarian Councilor: You're right. Our scientists know more about the Geth than their creators anyway.

Anderson or Udina: Are you guys nuts? We should bring the Quarians in to examine this to make sure before the Keepers clean up any more of this. And why are the Keeper trying to hide this thing?

Turian Councilor: Shut up, Anderson/Udina. Shepard let the old council die, so we're not going to listen to anything you say no matter how valid it is. Your kind are just greedy for power.

Earth Councilor: So you're just going to ignore the evidence and do nothing. Fine. We'll start preparing ourselves.

Asari Councilor: If you do, you'll be branded a rogue state, banned from the council.

Turians: And we'll find it necessary to go to war with you if you exceed your arms limits. Is that what you want? And don't even think about putting your nuclear weapons on your ships, even though we know damned well that a hit from two 5 MT warheads would easily take out a ship the size of Sovereign. There are treaties you know.

---------------------

This is why the reapers are unbeatable by conventional means. They squandered three years.

For that matter even if it was "just" as Geth ship, shouldn't the fact that the Geth were able to field a warship with that sort of mass and tech advantage be some cause for concern?

[Archer610]

tractrpl wrote...

Archer610 wrote...

The Turians pulled their fleet away to preserve it.  How would the Reaper 'small force' of say, 10 Capital ships, hold up to every ship the Alliance could bring?  If there's 100 Dreadnoughts, counting Liveships and Geth, that's 10 Dreads for every Capital ship.  Losses to the Alliance would be pretty small, since it only takes 4 Dreads to kill a Reaper

Does the term 2000 (minimum) Sovereigns mean anything to you? We're outnumbered, not just outgunned.

So, got anything to back up this 2000 Capital Ships, other than 'Lots of Speculation'?

[hectorkbrn]

Quarians had around 50,000 ships, Geth had 10,000 only in the Haestron's system (Tali's Recruitment planet). Don't think it's far-fetched to assume they had more. Let's put their numbers around the same as the Quarians 50,000.

That's 100,000 ships, without the Council aligned races.

You say there are around 2,000 Reapers (Could probably be more, in the game it is constantly said that we're outnumbered)

That's 50 ships per Reaper, WITHOUT: humans, asari, turians, salarians and the rest of the "minor" races.

I don't think it would have been likely to win conventionally. But I certainly don't think it was impossible.

If they had prepared when they were first warned they should have been able to win conventionally.


Edit: In relation to the Crucible, I always thought it'd be a big gun (similar to the one that took out the Direlict Reaper from ME2),  that the fleets would just screen it while it sniped the Reapers. Kinda disapointed it was a Reaper "off" button (sort off).

Modifié par hectorkbrn, 20 avril 2012 - 02:26 .

[grey_wind]

A0170 wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

While a conventional victory seems unlikely in ME3 due to the way the Reapers and plot are written, it would be far more fitting thematically than "OMG, I found a superweapon in my backyard at the last minute! I have no idea what it does but let's use it anyway!"
In fact, I'd argue that ME2 was basically setting the plot up for a victory attained by strength through unity.

I agree with a lot of what your saying. I was okay with the idea of the Crucible, but as we all know how that idea was executed was extremely poor. But I'm just saying, with the ingame evidence provided in the Codex and beyond, it just doesn't seem probable that we could win. We'd put up a hell of a fight for sure, and like I said maybe we'd set up the Yahg for a final victory in their cycle, but as the ingame info stands now a conventional victory is near impossible.

That's actually part of my problem with it. Had they given the script some more thought, the plot could have been written in a way that makes a conventional victory seem realistic. Difficult, but realistic. But as the plot of the game stands now, with how overpowered the Reapers are and the dismissal of game changing choices like the Collector Base, a cheap superweapon seems to be the only way.
And if they really wanted to introduce a superweapon, why not expand on the weapon that created the Great Rift of Klendagon? Hell, they had it in the trilogy the entire time!

Modifié par grey_wind, 20 avril 2012 - 02:26 .

[Fallen94]

If your looking for a superweapon we have the relays

[Vormaerin]

Tleining wrote...



*lol*
We have no Evidence to support that the Thanix Cannons are one size fits all.
We have no Evidence to support that a Swarm of Fighters with Thanix can destroy a Capital class Reaper.

So obviously the Opposite is true?
The Codex mentions the Thanix for Frigates and Fighters. Not Cruisers. Not Dreadnoughts.
The Normandy was able to destroy the Collector Cruiser. Without the "Get in close and finish it off."-Line it would have been a clear Victory. The Collector Cruiser was able to destroy a Turian Cruiser with no Problem. Yet the Cerberus Cruiser is suddenly way more powerful?
Destroying the Cerberus Cruiser right next to the Station you want to evacuate is a bad idea. But standing up to it in a fight?

1)  The fact that you can make thanix weapons for fighters and frigates does not mean that the they have dreadnought class firepower.  It just means that they can make smaller versions of the weapons system.  Maybe swarms of fighters can equal a dreadnought's firepower, but that would be very different than the usual way things work in the real world and in fiction.

2)  Joker didn't say "blowing that sucker up right there would be bad".  He said they couldn't face the cruiser and its fighters.  Being able to blow up the collector doesn't mean that the ship can routinely face superior firepower successfully.


Finally, this argument is pointless because we don't have any real numbers for anything.  We don't know how many reapers of which types exist or where they are.  We don't know how many ships the Alliance and related fleets bring.   We don't even know how many dreadnoughts we have, because the numbers given in the codex are from before the war and we know that everyone has taken heavy casualties.

There could be 500 Sovereigns for all we know.   That's less than 1 per reaping cycle that we know about.   We have no idea whether there are hundreds or thousands of the smaller ships.

We also don't know how much of our industrial capacity is still functional.  We somehow built the Crucible, of course.  But most of our major colonies were destroyed or, at least, bombed like Bekenstein.   Same with the Turians.   Maybe we can keep building new ships, but maybe not.

[A0170]

according to the Codex, the Thanix was designed for Fighters and Frigates. The Rest isn't backed up by the Codex. At the end of ME1 i had Credits maxed out. At the end of ME2 i had enough Resources to upgrade several Fighters.

Several, but not hundreds.

or 5 or 6. 2 or 3 get shot down by the Normandy, 2 or 3 get destroyed in the Debris-Field. One gets into the Cargo-Bay.
And the Normandy was surprised by the Occuli approaching from behind.

My point exactly, just a few were able to infiltrate the Normandy. Again, they tore apart the Normandy's shields and armor rather easily. Imagine how much damagehundreds or thousands could do to not just the Normandy, but an entire fleet?

As for Cains, it takes thousands of whatever measures of Iridium to produce. And the Normandy again was a state of the art ship with a built in research lab. Can every Alliance warship claim to have a facility onboard like that? Probably not.

No, but in 6 Months and spread out across all the Planets....
Obviously, with Shepard and everyone wasting those 6 Months it's impossible. But what kept Shepard and the Crew from preparing? Give Wrex the Plans on how to build the Cain and it would become commonplace on Tuchanka.

Maybe, but why didn't the Krogan use them then on Priority:Tuchanka, on the Reaper Destroyer standing in the way of their cure for the genophage? Seems like an important enough mission where they'd use these weapons if they had them. And no way Shepard's crew could build enough Cains to supply an army all by themselves. Plus the Normandy was impounded all that time by the Alliance remember? And yes, I agree with you. The Alliance sat and twiddled their thumbs and because of that we were screwed. Maybe, as you suggest, if they prepared all those months we would have a sizable number of Cains but it didn't happen, and a lot of their resources I'd imagine would go towards ship upgrades.

Yes, they didn't do it. Instead everyone wasted the 6 Months. Which is one of the Reasons why i hated Anderson and Hackett in ME3.
"Oh, the Reapers are here. How could we have known?"
Common Sense?

Absolutely agree with you on this.

Why do we need to build Assault Rifles? The Fleets already exist. Every Fleet has enough Weapons for their Troops. Cains are in short supply in ME2. That's what we need to win. That's what we need to build.

Well we can't just have every soldier firing a Cain at every husk they see. Can you imagine the collateral damage/friendly fire? Besides, these are marines, and every marine needs a rifle

[DxWill103]

How is it even a question? If the Reapers were capable of being defeated conventionally, wouldn't it have happened at some point in the million whatever years they've been reaping? Even if they were, we know they take every precaution imaginable.
Anyway, personally, I was under the impression the reapers weren't defeat-able conventionally after the first game. The third one just supported my belief.

[A0170]

grey_wind wrote...

A0170 wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

While a conventional victory seems unlikely in ME3 due to the way the Reapers and plot are written, it would be far more fitting thematically than "OMG, I found a superweapon in my backyard at the last minute! I have no idea what it does but let's use it anyway!"
In fact, I'd argue that ME2 was basically setting the plot up for a victory attained by strength through unity.

I agree with a lot of what your saying. I was okay with the idea of the Crucible, but as we all know how that idea was executed was extremely poor. But I'm just saying, with the ingame evidence provided in the Codex and beyond, it just doesn't seem probable that we could win. We'd put up a hell of a fight for sure, and like I said maybe we'd set up the Yahg for a final victory in their cycle, but as the ingame info stands now a conventional victory is near impossible.

That's actually part of my problem with it. Had they given the script some more thought, the plot could have been written in a way that makes a conventional victory seem realistic. Difficult, but realistic. But as the plot of the game stands now, with how overpowered the Reapers are and the dismissal of game changing choices like the Collector Base, a cheap superweapon seems to be the only way.
And if they really wanted to introduce a superweapon, why not expand on the weapon that created the Great Rift of Klendagon? Hell, they had it in the trilogy the entire time!

Great points! I would've loved for that to happen too, us being able to beat them somehow without the Crucible, but considering what they left us with the Codex it is impossible. The massive superweapon that caused the Great Rift would've been interesting, although that plan ultimately failed didn't it? Would've been cool to see though, nothing like a BFG to show the evil space machines who's boss.

Modifié par A0170, 20 avril 2012 - 02:31 .

[Vormaerin]

hectorkbrn wrote...

Quarians had around 50,000 ships, Geth had 10,000 only in the Haestron's system (Tali's Recruitment planet). Don't think it's far-fetched to assume they had more. Let's put their numbers around the same as the Quarians 50,000.

That's 100,000 ships, without the Council aligned races.

Sadly, we don't know what their definition of "ship" is.   Does it include all those fighters that dominate most of the cutscenes?   Most of those quarian ships are definitely primarily non combat vessels.   Qships, which is sort of what the liveships end up being, can be heavily armed, but they aren't a match for a real warship.

Too much lack of data...

[A0170]

hectorkbrn wrote...

Quarians had around 50,000 ships, Geth had 10,000 only in the Haestron's system (Tali's Recruitment planet). Don't think it's far-fetched to assume they had more. Let's put their numbers around the same as the Quarians 50,000.

That's 100,000 ships, without the Council aligned races.

You say there are around 2,000 Reapers (Could probably be more, in the game it is constantly said that we're outnumbered)

That's 50 ships per Reaper, WITHOUT: humans, asari, turians, salarians and the rest of the "minor" races.

I don't think it would have been likely to win conventionally. But I certainly don't think it was impossible.

If they had prepared when they were first warned they should have been able to win conventionally.


Edit: In relation to the Crucible, I always thought it'd be a big gun (similar to the one that took out the Direlict Reaper from ME2),  that the fleets would just screen it while it sniped the Reapers. Kinda disapointed it was a Reaper "off" button (sort off).

Like I said before, the Migrant Fleet is certainly formidable, but most of its ships are either, civilian, salvaged, ancient, or a combination of all three. Yes they could do some damage, but they'd get torn apart because they couldn't take the firepower that the Reapers would throw at them.

Also, when the Geth were updated with the Reaper code if you chose to side with them over the Quarians, they use that data to annihilate the Migrant Fleet. Now that code came from one destroyer, and consider that you're going up a fleet of hundreds and/or thousands of warships, each with a similar code, each with a collective consciousness and computing power of an entire harvested species. So if the Geth's Reaper code upgrades were enough for them to beat the Migrant Fleet, than an entire Reaper armada filled with these upgrades would mean that the Quarians will probably get wiped out as well.

Modifié par A0170, 20 avril 2012 - 02:39 .

[Tleining]

Vormaerin wrote...

1)  The fact that you can make thanix weapons for fighters and frigates does not mean that the they have dreadnought class firepower.  It just means that they can make smaller versions of the weapons system.  Maybe swarms of fighters can equal a dreadnought's firepower, but that would be very different than the usual way things work in the real world and in fiction.

The Thanix was developed for Frigates and Fighters. That's what the Codex says. It makes their Firepower equal to that of a Cruiser. And Thanix Cannons are more effective against the Reapers than Kinetic Weapons.

I can throw 100 grenades against a Tank without doing more damage than a few scratches. But a well placed mine...

2)  Joker didn't say "blowing that sucker up right there would be bad".  He said they couldn't face the cruiser and its fighters.  Being able to blow up the collector doesn't mean that the ship can routinely face superior firepower successfully.

okay, so the Problem wasn't the Cruiser. It was facing a Cruiser AND support at the same time on our own.

Finally, this argument is pointless because we don't have any real numbers for anything.  We don't know how many reapers of which types exist or where they are.  We don't know how many ships the Alliance and related fleets bring.   We don't even know how many dreadnoughts we have, because the numbers given in the codex are from before the war and we know that everyone has taken heavy casualties.

It depends on what your Arguing for. I'm saying that the Game and Codex don't outright state that a Conventional Victory is impossible. If we had more Numbers, that could change. But as it is right now, it looks like we were railroaded into the Deus-ex-machina-Ending.

[Archer610]

DxWill103 wrote...

How is it even a question? If the Reapers were capable of being defeated conventionally, wouldn't it have happened at some point in the million whatever years they've been reaping? Even if they were, we know they take every precaution imaginable.
Anyway, personally, I was under the impression the reapers weren't defeat-able conventionally after the first game. The third one just supported my belief.

     This is the first cycle it's possible for the Reapers to lose.  The one difference between this cycle and every other one is that the relay network is still working.  In every previous cycle, the Reapers turn the relays off when they take over the Citadel.  That remove the organics' command, comunication, and mobility.
     This time, the organic races can talk to each other, and move around.  Since they can move around, it's possible for every Alliance warship in the galaxy to be in the same place.  In every other cycle, the fleets were all seperated, and could be picked off one fleet at a time.  The VI on Ilos talked about how all the systems were isolated and picked off.

Modifié par Archer610, 20 avril 2012 - 02:42 .

[A0170]

Archer610 wrote...

DxWill103 wrote...

How is it even a question? If the Reapers were capable of being defeated conventionally, wouldn't it have happened at some point in the million whatever years they've been reaping? Even if they were, we know they take every precaution imaginable.
Anyway, personally, I was under the impression the reapers weren't defeat-able conventionally after the first game. The third one just supported my belief.

     This is the first cycle it's possible for the Reapers to lose.  The one difference between this cycle and every other one is that the relay network is still working.  In every previous cycle, the Reapers turn the relays off when they take over the Citadel.  Thet remove the organics' command, comunication, and mobility.
     This time, the organic races can talk to each other, and move around.  Since they can move around, it's possible for every Alliance warship in the galaxy to be in the same place.  In every other cycle, the fleets were all seperated, and could be picked off one fleet at a time.  The VI on Ilos talked about how all the systems were isolated and picked off.

Right, thats why I'd think we definitely give them a run for our money. But they control the Citadel eventually, and they know about the Keepers being sabotaged by now. Whats to stop them from shutting down the relay netowrk then? Or Starkid could get off his lazy ass and do it. If so, then we wouldn't be able to communicate or travel freely.

Plothole aside, the Reapers can outlast us in the fight, because of how many ships we'd lose just to take out one Sovereign class. Plus they control most, if not all of each of the Citadel race's homeworlds. Taking them back would require a fleet as large as Sword, if not larger, as Sword was only meant to buy time for the Crucible. Coupled with the massive amount of casualties that'll be suffered by both ground and naval forces, the necessity of maintaining open supply lines, and the fact that the Reapers can always come back and drive us off again, the war looks unwinnable. The Reapers don't need supply lines remember, and if they continually deny us access to resources and worlds, we'll eventually run out of supplies to rebuild, food to eat, and soliders to man our ships and armies.

Modifié par A0170, 20 avril 2012 - 02:51 .

[Mbaye Diagne]

There are a lot of factors at play. We don't know if the Reapers are slowly becoming weaker over time due to attrition.

If we use a farming analogy this may make more sense.

Initially the soil was ripe (species were spacefaring but discombobulated) and harvests were plentiful. We can't assume that the plot of land will always remain stagnant. Perhaps a pest comes in, or weather patterns change slightly, both of which decrease yield. Over time the plot that once presented a bountiful harvest now might not make enough for the person to break even.

Extend that logic to the Protheans. They obviously didn't defeat the Reapers, but we also don't know how many losses they inflicted upon them. Even if the Reapers don't usually lose a capital ship in a cycle, it doesn't mean that the Protheans didn't take out several, or perhaps a large number of destroyers.

It is just as likely that the Reapers have still been winning, but winning by smaller margins as it is that they completely annihilate their prey without a loss. Over tens of millions of years even miniscule losses could add up to a tipping point.

Another way to think of it: The '98 Bulls, while still champions, were not nearly the team that the '96 Bulls were, even though the principles were largely the same.

[Averdi]

The disconnect between ally forces having access to 'reaper-light' weapons, a la the thanix, and not witnessing their employment in the final battle is just a frustration. The writers probably thought that they went to far in introducing the thanix and kind of eased it off stage left for ME3 so as to preserve reaper formidability. With widespread use of the thanix, I can't see why reapers couldn't be defeated in at least individual battles (e.g. battle for earth).

Modifié par Averdi, 20 avril 2012 - 02:53 .

[Elyiia]

Pretty much any number of Reaper Capital ships is speculation, unless someone wants to post a formula taking into account every variable. Until then, it's speculation.

Personally, I think it's low because of the way the Reapers fight. If they had Capital ship numbers into the thousands they would have finished Earth's resistance within hours. They still hadn't after months and there were still enough humans putting up a fight to set up a FOB right infront of a Reaper main base.

And if they had that many Capital ships, why would they have left a single destroyer to guard the beam. If they had thousands of Capital ships, leaving one to defend wouldn't have been an issue.

[A0170]

Mbaye Diagne wrote...

There are a lot of factors at play. We don't know if the Reapers are slowly becoming weaker over time due to attrition.

If we use a farming analogy this may make more sense.

Initially the soil was ripe (species were spacefaring but discombobulated) and harvests were plentiful. We can't assume that the plot of land will always remain stagnant. Perhaps a pest comes in, or weather patterns change slightly, both of which decrease yield. Over time the plot that once presented a bountiful harvest now might not make enough for the person to break even.

Extend that logic to the Protheans. They obviously didn't defeat the Reapers, but we also don't know how many losses they inflicted upon them. Even if the Reapers don't usually lose a capital ship in a cycle, it doesn't mean that the Protheans didn't take out several, or perhaps a large number of destroyers.

It is just as likely that the Reapers have still been winning, but winning by smaller margins as it is that they completely annihilate their prey without a loss. Over tens of millions of years even miniscule losses could add up to a tipping point.

Another way to think of it: The '98 Bulls, while still champions, were not nearly the team that the '96 Bulls were, even though the principles were largely the same.

True, but again consider the amount of ships and firepower it would take to take down one Reaper capital ship, four Dreadnoughts armed with Thanix cannons, and the fact that they're at least hundreds of these capital ships alone if the ending scene from ME2 is to be believed. Now each of those capital ships will then have an escort of several destroyers, which have been shown time and time again to be able to make short work of a cruiser in just a few shots. Even if their numbers are not what they used to be, the attrition rate alone would nullify much of the advantage we would gain for their casualties suffered in the past cycles. It also hasn't stopped the Reapers from beating countless cycles in the past. The fact they were able to do so and yet maintain such an impressive force speaks volumes to their durability.

But perhaps their victories and low casualties rates was due to their ability to seize the Citadel and shut down the relay network? Well then, in that case wouldn't that also mean their casualties would be low regardless, because they had such an easy time Reaping each cycle in the past?

[A0170]

Averdi wrote...

The disconnect between ally forces having access to 'reaper-light' weapons, a la the thanix, and not witnessing their employment in the final battle is just a frustration. The writers probably thought that they went to far in introducing the thanix and kind of eased it off stage left for ME3 so as to preserve reaper formidability. With widespread use of the thanix, I can't see why reapers couldn't be defeated in at least individual battles (e.g. battle for earth).

I absolutely agree. They certainly did write themselves in a corner. But while we may win individual battles, the costs will be high. They'll come back and take whatever we hold. And because we wouldn't be able to hold onto any of our gains, and because we'll eventually be denied access to worlds and resources as a result, they'll starve us out in the end because they have the time. With no reources or planets, that means no supplies for food, rebuilding ships, ammo, and etc.

[fr33stylez]

I never really expected conventionally defeating the Reapers and I don't Thanix Cannons could've turned the tide completely. They've been wiping out civilizations for billions or years - I'm not completely against the notion of a superweapon. The problem is, ME2 is partly to blame, because you never found out anything significant to use against the Reapers the entire game. You spend the entire time fighting the Bug People and by the end, you're in no better shape than you were at the end of ME1. The Crucible should've been introduced (at least the blueprints!) in ME2 if they were going with the 'superweapon' route.

Now logically, Virgil on Ilos would've said something about the Crucible, but of course we all know that the Crucible was written into the storyline after ME2.

Also, because the plot of the game was hellbent on making everyone in the galaxy besides Shepard sit on their asses until the Reapers actually arrive into the Milky Way, there's really no way to prepare for a war. The Reapers might as well have come through the Citadel in ME1, because ultimately it made little difference in the end - everyone is stupid, no one makes preparations. Hell, even Shepard was sitting on Earth doing nothing for 6 MONTHS after Arrival DLC, even though Shepard knew the Reapers were dangerously close.

Modifié par fr33stylez, 20 avril 2012 - 03:08 .

[A0170]

Elyiia wrote...

Pretty much any number of Reaper Capital ships is speculation, unless someone wants to post a formula taking into account every variable. Until then, it's speculation.

Personally, I think it's low because of the way the Reapers fight. If they had Capital ship numbers into the thousands they would have finished Earth's resistance within hours. They still hadn't after months and there were still enough humans putting up a fight to set up a FOB right infront of a Reaper main base.

And if they had that many Capital ships, why would they have left a single destroyer to guard the beam. If they had thousands of Capital ships, leaving one to defend wouldn't have been an issue.

Right, speculation is our only method at this point. And I guess my answer to your point about the low number of capital ships is that the ending scene in ME2 proves otherwise. Some could be destroyers granted, but again we can't be sure for certain. Although if they have been at this for millions of years, we can at least guess that they're at least a hundred to a couple of hundred cpital ships alone. And they didn't wiped out Earth's resistance because they'd rather harvest them, obliterating the remaining humans from orbit would've been easier, but of course that leaves no more organic materia for their human Reaper. Also, they had the luxury of time, they knew no matter how long, the resistance couldn't win out alone. After a couple of months, maybe years, they probably would've either harvested or indoctrinated mostof us by then.

Modifié par A0170, 20 avril 2012 - 03:10 .

[Mbaye Diagne]

A0170 wrote...

True, but again consider the amount of ships and firepower it would take to take down one Reaper capital ship, four Dreadnoughts armed with Thanix cannons, and the fact that they're at least hundreds of these capital ships alone if the ending scene from ME2 is to be believed. Now each of those capital ships will then have an escort of several destroyers, which have been shown time and time again to be able to make short work of a cruiser in just a few shots. Even if their numbers are not what they used to be, the attrition rate alone would nullify much of the advantage we would gain for their casualties suffered in the past cycles. It also hasn't stopped the Reapers from beating countless cycles in the past. The fact they were able to do so and yet maintain such an impressive force speaks volumes to their durability.

But perhaps their victories and low casualties rates was due to their ability to seize the Citadel and shut down the relay network? Well then, in that case wouldn't that also mean their casualties would be low regardless, because they had such an easy time Reaping each cycle in the past?

That's definitely within the realm of possibility.

We know that they've had low casualties of their capital ships. We know nothing of the casualties of the remainder of their forces.

Consider the number of Aircraft Carriers lost in Vietnam compared to fighters and bombers.

It goes without saying that we only know a sliver of the story, and as such, can do nothing but speculate. However, because all we can do is speculate, there is a range of speculation that could be undtertaken, from one extreme, The Reapers are declining like the Roman Empire, to another, that they are more powerful than ever.