255 réponses à ce sujet

[liggy002]

   ...it means that Harbinger's actions in Mass Effect 2 were pretty much meaningless and he wasn't involved in ME3 at all.  When I say "actions" I mean his interest in Shepard.  Also, the cleverly placed "Caution" and "Warning" signs next to the boy wont mean anything as well.  Nor will the toy space cruiser at the beginning of the game when they try to mess with our heads.  Bioware WAS messing with our heads at the ending sequences.

   The ending would simply have no real depth without the hidden mindf*** of an ending.  They clearly intended to indoctrinate Shepard at one point since they were playing with that game mechanic.  I don't believe that they have scrapped that idea.  To do so would be a huge mistake.  And it doesn't make sense either, to just throw Shepard's indoctrination out the window.  It utterly cheapens the magical (NOT SPACE MAGICAL) experience that is supposed to be Mass Effect 3.

  Also, I don't just support the IT because it makes the ending right in my head.  I like it because I believe it is a great theory.  I love the whole concept of Shepard becoming indoctrinated.  In point of fact, I had submitted a suggestion for Bioware to be open to the possibility of Shepard's indoctrination.  He would be a sleeper agent for the Reapers and there would be a terrible conflict with his crew members.  People would die or not die depending on your choices and it wouldn't be pretty.

Modifié par liggy002, 20 avril 2012 - 12:51 .

[Uncle Jo]

If you think that there's still hope for the IT after Biowares annoucement, then you're dreaming dude... In blue, green and red... Time to wake up...

[Eli Parker]

Uncle Jo wrote...

If you think that there's still hope for the IT after Biowares annoucement, then you're dreaming dude... In blue, green and red... Time to wake up...

I'll continue dreaming Mr. Jo.

Modifié par Eli Parker, 20 avril 2012 - 12:58 .

[liggy002]

Uncle Jo wrote...

If you think that there's still hope for the IT after Biowares annoucement, then you're dreaming dude... In blue, green and red... Time to wake up...

I will.  It feels a little rough with all of that London rubble around me.

[MJF JD]

IT vs anti-IT

ROUND 23412341234124

FIGHT!

[ticklefist]

Hey, nobody said the reality of the situation doesn't suck. They just think the IT sucks too.

[Heretic19]

Yeah Indoctrination Theory should be in the can right now. But there are many unrealistic folks in the world.

[liggy002]

If this IT stuff isn't true and Bioware is telling us to keep our saves, then there would be no point in doing so. Why would we keep our saves if Shepard dies in 2 out the of the three endings? Why keep our saves if there is no further gameplay? I've said it many times and I will say it again: they did not debunk the IT nor did they debunk further gameplay.

  It's unrealistic to assume certain things were said by Bioware when they weren't just to fit your personal agenda.

Modifié par liggy002, 20 avril 2012 - 01:04 .

[HellishFiend]

Anti-IT just seems to me that people want to believe Bioware is a bunch of screw ups, and to explain everything with "bad writing" instead of looking at all the things that actually make sense in the context of the Indoctrination Theory. It's the difference between a brilliantly executed game and a horribly executed one. Why anyone wants to believe the latter is beyond me.

[Taboo]

It's not even a theory. That's your problem. A theory has factual evidence based in reality. Evolution had evidence to support it. Gravity has evidence to support it. You have nothing but superficial data.

In fact Bigfoot researchers have more evidence that he/she exists because some members of the scientific community believe that the Patterson/Gimlin film is not a hoax. There is more "proof" that a gigantic hairy man is wandering the Pacific Northwest than "proof" of the Indoctrination "Hypothesis".

I apologize for being so blunt but you guys have got to realize that you are quite literally in a state of delusion.

[Zolt51]

The IT denies that anything is real. Therefore it can't be proven wrong.

I respect who use the IT as their headcanon. Just don't try to shove that theory down my throat because I abhor it.

[Taboo]

Zolt51 wrote...

The IT denies that anything is real. Therefore it can't be proven wrong.

I respect who use the IT as their headcanon. Just don't try to shove that theory down my throat because I abhor it.

Falsification is important to the scientific process. Without it you have nothing. You cannot falsify the Indoctrination Theory therefore it has no basis in reality.

[KevShep]

Uncle Jo wrote...

If you think that there's still hope for the IT after Biowares annoucement, then you're dreaming dude... In blue, green and red... Time to wake up...

Bioware's annoucement did not say anything that would stamp out I.T. In Fact there announcement was to AVOID talking about the I.T.! If it was not the I.T. then they would just say it because there is no reason not to.

Modifié par KevShep, 20 avril 2012 - 01:11 .

[HellishFiend]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

The IT denies that anything is real. Therefore it can't be proven wrong.

I respect who use the IT as their headcanon. Just don't try to shove that theory down my throat because I abhor it.

Falsification is important to the scientific process. Without it you have nothing. You cannot falsify the Indoctrination Theory therefore it has no basis in reality.

You are completely misusing the words theory, falsification, and delusion. I could write a post arguing against what you said, but what you're saying is not even well-formed or even following the proper definition of the words you're using. 

[Taboo]

HellishFiend wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

The IT denies that anything is real. Therefore it can't be proven wrong.

I respect who use the IT as their headcanon. Just don't try to shove that theory down my throat because I abhor it.

Falsification is important to the scientific process. Without it you have nothing. You cannot falsify the Indoctrination Theory therefore it has no basis in reality.

You are completely misusing the words theory, falsification, and delusion. I could write a post arguing against what you said, but what you're saying is not even well-formed or even following the proper definition of the words you're using. 

It is pretty bad isn't it? Regardless of how poorly worded my post is it still doesn't make this "theory" anymore plausible.

[Ytook]

People who knock the IT I don't think understand why people like it, I like it not because I believe it was intended or because I believe it will be implemented, I like it because if works and I think it would be good for the ending because it would allow Bioware to keep their god awful ending they seem to be so attached to while allowing the new ending to effectively have a clean slate with an interesting consequence to follow through on. People who like IT are not saying the ending is great and shouldn't be changed, if anything if IT is 'correct' then there is even more need for further content as instead of a game with an utterly abysmal ending we have a game with no ending at all.

Also the elements that form the theory do not simply come from the ending sequence, there are moments throughout the game and in arrival that also support it so claiming that the ending relies on its own assumption being true to support it is ignoring a large chunk of the actual theory. 

Modifié par Ytook, 20 avril 2012 - 01:19 .

[MrFob]

I don't think the I is going to happen at this point. However, i till think it would be the best solution.

With the IT, we'd have one single reason to discount of the logical inconsistencies during the last 15 minutes the game. It's not perfect but it is something BW could work out.

Without it, you can certainly explain everything in the ending somehow BUT you'd have to make so many excuses and allowances to do so that this action in itself would again jeopardize any suspension of disbelief. See the unofficial interview with Patrick Weekes at PAC for some example and this not even touching on the most ridiculous issues.

In my opinion the IT is a more elegant solution than explaining the problems away one at a time.
Unfortunately, I agree with the people here that predict that BW is not going to use it tough.

[Uncle Jo]

The IT was a good one. At least more coherent than the ending we got. But it have never been in the toughts of Bioware. Never.
A twist-ending introducing the IT only make sense, if the truth is revealed just AFTER the players made their choice (blue/red/green/purple/whatever). Not a day, or two weeks or four months later. Otherwise the effect is gone...
The dreams of Shepard are just... dreams. Yes, it's still possible...
The only Indoctrination attempt is on the Citadel with TIM.
Don't misunderstand me, I personally think that the actual ending is one of the worst I've ever seen... But it's just because Bioware ran out of time and maybe the original ending script was leaked. Nothing more. nothing less. Deal with it.

[HellishFiend]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It is pretty bad isn't it? Regardless of how poorly worded my post is it still doesn't make this "theory" anymore plausible.

Oh, I disagree. I say it is very plausible.

[KevShep]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

The IT denies that anything is real. Therefore it can't be proven wrong.

I respect who use the IT as their headcanon. Just don't try to shove that theory down my throat because I abhor it.

Falsification is important to the scientific process. Without it you have nothing. You cannot falsify the Indoctrination Theory therefore it has no basis in reality.

 There are proven facts to support the I.T....thats why you guys cant find any REAL evidence against it. Also you guys cant disprove it because the ending is so screwed up (like with the ME lore and direction of the series/plot holes) that you CANT argue that it makes any sense in order to find your evidence against it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zertz]

Was an IT theorist and hopeful, but while it hasn't been killed it is SERIOUSLY on the ropes.

In my back pocket as headcanon in case BW really derps up the EC.

It's just been far too long for this to be a mindscrew. The way to pull of IT would be to hide the data on the discs the game ships with (unlock via the Konami code? ) OR release the DLC ending for free within a month of launch. Sure you wouldn't catch everyone surprised, but enough players would be hit to make a big splash with the public.

Alternatively, if you were thinking IT --> ME4 to finish the fight for real, then the cliffhanger ending should've been more obvious so as to avoid the ire. The Shepard Lives scene for example should provide more obvious clues that it was all a hallucination.

Its been stated that BW is too good to mess up the ending this badly, therefore we have to believe IT. But BW, by that same standard, is too good to mess up implementing IT this badly, so you could also reject the theory on that same assumption of BioWare's capabilities story-wise.

For example, the KotOR 1 twist didn't have Malak say, "What? You don't know do you...." and then roll the credits.

Is this making sense?

[liggy002]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's not even a theory. That's your problem. A theory has factual evidence based in reality. Evolution had evidence to support it. Gravity has evidence to support it. You have nothing but superficial data.

In fact Bigfoot researchers have more evidence that he/she exists because some members of the scientific community believe that the Patterson/Gimlin film is not a hoax. There is more "proof" that a gigantic hairy man is wandering the Pacific Northwest than "proof" of the Indoctrination "Hypothesis".

I apologize for being so blunt but you guys have got to realize that you are quite literally in a state of delusion.

Oily Shadows

Rubble that looks like London and other features that look like London in end sequence

Danger and Caution Signs as I have pointed out

The Reaper Growl that we hear when we talk to the boy in the vent (From the Mass Effect  novel)

The Significance of the Space Cruiser Toy the boy is holding - notice how the camera pans out as if to signify that we see isn't always what it appears to be.

Casey Hudson on the artistic integrity of the ending and maintaining it.  Taken at face value, it makes no sense.  With the IT, it all falls into place.  I agree; the ending is highly artistic and mindblowing with the IT.

The humming sound in the Normandy.  This is not something that they would point out if it was as insignificant as just engine noise.

I wasn't being delusional when I heard the Rachni Queen say oily shadows.  That's what I saw in Shepard's dreams.

One of the conversation choices for the crucible is "it seems to good to be true."



  I could do all this day.  Maybe you should watch the videos and think a bit more about the evidence before you call IT people delusional.  Indoctrination is a major theme throughout the ME universe.


  And, if you don't like it that's fine.  Nobody said I was forcing it down your throat.  Don't read the thread if you don't like it.

Modifié par liggy002, 20 avril 2012 - 01:21 .

[gmboy902]

Here's something better than the IT.

Everything past Anderson/TIM's deaths. Scrap it. Start with a new ending. The end.

[Zany Jedi]

gmboy902 wrote...

Here's something better than the IT.

Everything past Anderson/TIM's deaths. Scrap it. Start with a new ending. The end.

This would be better but in terms of "clarifying" I think IT is the best way to go.

[Aaleel]

liggy002 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

If you think that there's still hope for the IT after Biowares annoucement, then you're dreaming dude... In blue, green and red... Time to wake up...

I will.  It feels a little rough with all of that London rubble around me.

London rubble?  That's Citadel rubble Shepard wakes up in, which is one of the many reasons why the IT makes no sense to me.