255 réponses à ce sujet

[Uncle Jo]

Aaleel wrote...


That would be fine if this were the first crack at it.  But this is supposed to be clarification not more questions.  OK it's the IT.  How did Shepard get buried in slabs on concrete in the middle of an open hill?  How come the beam just didn't kill Shepard outright like it did Garrus and Liara in the deleted scene?  How come two different VIs couldn't detect indocrtrination, when one spotted Kai Leng 100 yards off?  Why is there only one choice when your war assets are low, isn't the premise built on three choices?

And the real life million dollar question, is even Bioware crazy enough to sell the final game of a trilogy with at best a fake ending, and at worst no ending at all.

This ^^. But you won't get an answer. Or better, you're missing the artistic vision of the ending...

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


Really? That's your reasoning? You're just guessing.

And I never said it wasn't there, not once, chill out.

Ive told you my reasoning! Iam speculating off of facts that we know...Iam not guessing! There is a difference between speculation and guessing.

Iam saying that you dont do that for no reason at the end of a major series unless there is a reason---speculation.
 
"Its just bad writing"---guessing!

Guessing is a synonym of speculation.

Definition for speculation, Theory, Guess.

[KevShep]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Why you guys argue about the rubble, I want to know why the wind's howling in that Destruction Easter Egg scene if it's the Citadel...

Wind? Sounds more like creepy ambience from a horror game.

www.youtube.com/watch

Sounds like wind to me. It fluxuates in pitch and tone, as wind does when it's howling through openings.

Of course, the arguement is likely to stay static- Those who believe the endings are real "The devs got lazy and just added random sfx." Those who believe in the IT "Another sign! Shepard's on Earth still!"

It's the same basic arguement- To throw the Devs a bone or not to throw the Devs a bone? That is the question.

Your right that is wind.

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Why you guys argue about the rubble, I want to know why the wind's howling in that Destruction Easter Egg scene if it's the Citadel...

Wind? Sounds more like creepy ambience from a horror game.

www.youtube.com/watch

Sounds like wind to me. It fluxuates in pitch and tone, as wind does when it's howling through openings.

Of course, the arguement is likely to stay static- Those who believe the endings are real "The devs got lazy and just added random sfx." Those who believe in the IT "Another sign! Shepard's on Earth still!"

It's the same basic arguement- To throw the Devs a bone or not to throw the Devs a bone? That is the question.

Your right that is wind.

Screeching and howling, the sound of twisting metal.

Sounds like a machine. Some loud clanking as well, echoing.

It actually sounds kinda similar to when you first poof onto the Citadel.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 20 avril 2012 - 03:07 .

[KevShep]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


Really? That's your reasoning? You're just guessing.

And I never said it wasn't there, not once, chill out.

Ive told you my reasoning! Iam speculating off of facts that we know...Iam not guessing! There is a difference between speculation and guessing.

Iam saying that you dont do that for no reason at the end of a major series unless there is a reason---speculation.
 
"Its just bad writing"---guessing!

Guessing is a synonym of speculation.

Definition for speculation, Theory, Guess.

Speculation off of facts is what Iam doing.
Its different when your trying to speculate/guessing with more speculation/guessing.

Anyway this is off the point.

[Rohirrim]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's not even a theory. That's your problem. A theory has factual evidence based in reality. Evolution had evidence to support it. Gravity has evidence to support it. You have nothing but superficial data.

In fact Bigfoot researchers have more evidence that he/she exists because some members of the scientific community believe that the Patterson/Gimlin film is not a hoax. There is more "proof" that a gigantic hairy man is wandering the Pacific Northwest than "proof" of the Indoctrination "Hypothesis".

I apologize for being so blunt but you guys have got to realize that you are quite literally in a state of delusion.

While I appreciate your proper use of hypothesis over theory, there is a TON of evidence supporting indoctrination in ME3. Please see the proper threat for details. I don't think analogies between scientific terminology and videogame discussion should be applied, anyway. 
If my wife would ask me if I'd still work on the "biological insurance THEORY", I surely wouldn't correct her by saying it's a hypothesis....

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


Really? That's your reasoning? You're just guessing.

And I never said it wasn't there, not once, chill out.

Ive told you my reasoning! Iam speculating off of facts that we know...Iam not guessing! There is a difference between speculation and guessing.

Iam saying that you dont do that for no reason at the end of a major series unless there is a reason---speculation.
 
"Its just bad writing"---guessing!

Guessing is a synonym of speculation.

Definition for speculation, Theory, Guess.

Speculation off of facts is what Iam doing.
Its different when your trying to speculate/guessing with more speculation/guessing.

Anyway this is off the point.

...

What.

How is an echoing audio effect a fact or proof of anything?

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 20 avril 2012 - 03:15 .

[KevShep]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Aaleel wrote...


That would be fine if this were the first crack at it.  But this is supposed to be clarification not more questions.  OK it's the IT.  How did Shepard get buried in slabs on concrete in the middle of an open hill?  How come the beam just didn't kill Shepard outright like it did Garrus and Liara in the deleted scene?  How come two different VIs couldn't detect indocrtrination, when one spotted Kai Leng 100 yards off?  Why is there only one choice when your war assets are low, isn't the premise built on three choices?

And the real life million dollar question, is even Bioware crazy enough to sell the final game of a trilogy with at best a fake ending, and at worst no ending at all.

This ^^. But you won't get an answer. Or better, you're missing the artistic vision of the ending...

Before ME3's release Bioware said they wanted "Speculation from Everyone"...Why? I answered this question in this same thread on page 2 I think in reguards to EA. 

[KevShep]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


Really? That's your reasoning? You're just guessing.

And I never said it wasn't there, not once, chill out.

Ive told you my reasoning! Iam speculating off of facts that we know...Iam not guessing! There is a difference between speculation and guessing.

Iam saying that you dont do that for no reason at the end of a major series unless there is a reason---speculation.
 
"Its just bad writing"---guessing!

Guessing is a synonym of speculation.

Definition for speculation, Theory, Guess.

Speculation off of facts is what Iam doing.
Its different when your trying to speculate/guessing with more speculation/guessing.

Anyway this is off the point.

...

What.

Your not bringing any facts to me to challenging my (and others) findings.

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Aaleel wrote...


That would be fine if this were the first crack at it.  But this is supposed to be clarification not more questions.  OK it's the IT.  How did Shepard get buried in slabs on concrete in the middle of an open hill?  How come the beam just didn't kill Shepard outright like it did Garrus and Liara in the deleted scene?  How come two different VIs couldn't detect indocrtrination, when one spotted Kai Leng 100 yards off?  Why is there only one choice when your war assets are low, isn't the premise built on three choices?

And the real life million dollar question, is even Bioware crazy enough to sell the final game of a trilogy with at best a fake ending, and at worst no ending at all.

This ^^. But you won't get an answer. Or better, you're missing the artistic vision of the ending...

Before ME3's release Bioware said they wanted "Speculation from Everyone"...Why? I answered this question in this same thread on page 2 I think in reguards to EA. 

Casey Hudson said he wanted speculation and thought-provoking discussions.

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


Really? That's your reasoning? You're just guessing.

And I never said it wasn't there, not once, chill out.

Ive told you my reasoning! Iam speculating off of facts that we know...Iam not guessing! There is a difference between speculation and guessing.

Iam saying that you dont do that for no reason at the end of a major series unless there is a reason---speculation.
 
"Its just bad writing"---guessing!

Guessing is a synonym of speculation.

Definition for speculation, Theory, Guess.

Speculation off of facts is what Iam doing.
Its different when your trying to speculate/guessing with more speculation/guessing.

Anyway this is off the point.

...

What.

Your not bringing any facts to me to challenging my (and others) findings.

Answer my edit, and my new question.

Where are your facts? I'd like to see direct word from Bioware, some official documentation, maybe a few things written in stone.

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


Really? That's your reasoning? You're just guessing.

And I never said it wasn't there, not once, chill out.

Ive told you my reasoning! Iam speculating off of facts that we know...Iam not guessing! There is a difference between speculation and guessing.

Iam saying that you dont do that for no reason at the end of a major series unless there is a reason---speculation.
 
"Its just bad writing"---guessing!

Guessing is a synonym of speculation.

Definition for speculation, Theory, Guess.

Speculation off of facts is what Iam doing.
Its different when your trying to speculate/guessing with more speculation/guessing.

Anyway this is off the point.

...

What.

Your not bringing any facts to me to challenging my (and others) findings.

And you and I are only talking about your "audio effect for a reason" thing.


Oh, and please try to actually make sense...you're kind of..going in circles and saying that the same things mean different things and...I have no idea.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 20 avril 2012 - 03:19 .

[Auralius Carolus]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Why you guys argue about the rubble, I want to know why the wind's howling in that Destruction Easter Egg scene if it's the Citadel...

Wind? Sounds more like creepy ambience from a horror game.

www.youtube.com/watch

Sounds like wind to me. It fluxuates in pitch and tone, as wind does when it's howling through openings.

Of course, the arguement is likely to stay static- Those who believe the endings are real "The devs got lazy and just added random sfx." Those who believe in the IT "Another sign! Shepard's on Earth still!"

It's the same basic arguement- To throw the Devs a bone or not to throw the Devs a bone? That is the question.

Your right that is wind.

Screeching and howling, the sound of twisting metal.

Sounds like a machine. Some loud clanking as well, echoing.

It actually sounds kinda similar to when you first poof onto the Citadel.

No, that's in there, but what I'm talking about is more subtle- in the background. If you don't have good audio processing or output, it may be deminished. *shrug*

Anyway, in regards to Casey's desire for the ending to provoke thought and discussion- that means one of two things, (which again are polarized ). Either we are intended to discover something or it was him "popping flares" from the backlash in order to make it to the back door.

[FatalX7.0]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Why you guys argue about the rubble, I want to know why the wind's howling in that Destruction Easter Egg scene if it's the Citadel...

Wind? Sounds more like creepy ambience from a horror game.

www.youtube.com/watch

Sounds like wind to me. It fluxuates in pitch and tone, as wind does when it's howling through openings.

Of course, the arguement is likely to stay static- Those who believe the endings are real "The devs got lazy and just added random sfx." Those who believe in the IT "Another sign! Shepard's on Earth still!"

It's the same basic arguement- To throw the Devs a bone or not to throw the Devs a bone? That is the question.

Your right that is wind.

Screeching and howling, the sound of twisting metal.

Sounds like a machine. Some loud clanking as well, echoing.

It actually sounds kinda similar to when you first poof onto the Citadel.

No, that's in there, but what I'm talking about is more subtle- in the background. If you don't have good audio processing or output, it may be deminished. *shrug*

Anyway, in regards to Casey's desire for the ending to provoke thought and discussion- that means one of two things, (which again are polarized ). Either we are intended to discover something or it was him "popping flares" from the backlash in order to make it to the back door.

My headphones here are pretty good...

It all sounds very echoey, like you're inside a structure, especially the monster-like screeching as soon as the scene starts, and the metallic banging in the background half way through.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 20 avril 2012 - 03:23 .

[KevShep]

FatalX7.0 wrote...


How is an echoing audio effect a fact or proof of anything.

Shepard is dreaming about this kid right?

Everytime he dreams more is added to it...like "oily Shadows" of people that the Rachni queen in ME1 mentions as indoctrination. You see oily Shadows of people in his/her dream.

The catalyst just happends to look like the kid (with no explanation) in an area that seems off or not right. Not to mention that what he says is not the direction of the series and shepard just accepts it like one would in a dream.

The last 10 minutes also has everything in it you have seen throughout all three games mixed in to create the illision that one can catch if they are paying attention.

Shepard is talking through the catalyst and when you put the other pices in place you see the Artistic integrity that we are seeing the indoctrination of the PLAYER.

And to answer your question...It proves that there is something more, the new question is what?

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


How is an echoing audio effect a fact or proof of anything.

Shepard is dreaming about this kid right?

Everytime he dreams more is added to it...like "oily Shadows" of people that the Rachni queen in ME1 mentions as indoctrination. You see oily Shadows of people in his/her dream.

The catalyst just happends to look like the kid (with no explanation) in an area that seems off or not right. Not to mention that what he says is not the direction of the series and shepard just accepts it like one would in a dream.

The last 10 minutes also has everything in it you have seen throughout all three games mixed in to create the illision that one can catch if they are paying attention.

Shepard is talking through the catalyst and when you put the other pices in place you see the Artistic integrity that we are seeing the indoctrination of the PLAYER.

And to answer your question...It proves that there is something more, the new question is what?

I asked where your facts are.

And I ask again, where are they?

[brian_breed]

HellishFiend wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

The IT denies that anything is real. Therefore it can't be proven wrong.

I respect who use the IT as their headcanon. Just don't try to shove that theory down my throat because I abhor it.

Falsification is important to the scientific process. Without it you have nothing. You cannot falsify the Indoctrination Theory therefore it has no basis in reality.

You are completely misusing the words theory, falsification, and delusion. I could write a post arguing against what you said, but what you're saying is not even well-formed or even following the proper definition of the words you're using. 

The only point you need to raise is that we're not talking about a scientific theory. We're talking about a theory of narrative. Narrative theory does not answer to empiricism. It's not the right rubric.

Indoc Theory makes satisfying sense of plot points to some. It does not satisfy others. Science is not the reason it satisfies or dissatisfies either party.

[KevShep]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


Really? That's your reasoning? You're just guessing.

And I never said it wasn't there, not once, chill out.

Ive told you my reasoning! Iam speculating off of facts that we know...Iam not guessing! There is a difference between speculation and guessing.

Iam saying that you dont do that for no reason at the end of a major series unless there is a reason---speculation.
 
"Its just bad writing"---guessing!

Guessing is a synonym of speculation.

Definition for speculation, Theory, Guess.

Speculation off of facts is what Iam doing.
Its different when your trying to speculate/guessing with more speculation/guessing.

Anyway this is off the point.

...

What.

Your not bringing any facts to me to challenging my (and others) findings.

And you and I are only talking about your "audio effect for a reason" thing.


Oh, and please try to actually make sense...you're kind of..going in circles and saying that the same things mean different things and...I have no idea.

 Ive been clear...you have not bought any facts to the table. Iam going in circles becaues Iam having to say the same thing because your not listining.

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


Really? That's your reasoning? You're just guessing.

And I never said it wasn't there, not once, chill out.

Ive told you my reasoning! Iam speculating off of facts that we know...Iam not guessing! There is a difference between speculation and guessing.

Iam saying that you dont do that for no reason at the end of a major series unless there is a reason---speculation.
 
"Its just bad writing"---guessing!

Guessing is a synonym of speculation.

Definition for speculation, Theory, Guess.

Speculation off of facts is what Iam doing.
Its different when your trying to speculate/guessing with more speculation/guessing.

Anyway this is off the point.

...

What.

Your not bringing any facts to me to challenging my (and others) findings.

And you and I are only talking about your "audio effect for a reason" thing.


Oh, and please try to actually make sense...you're kind of..going in circles and saying that the same things mean different things and...I have no idea.

 Ive been clear...you have not bought any facts to the table. Iam going in circles becaues Iam having to say the same thing because your not listining.

Neither have you.

You keep going in circles because you have nothing solid and factual to back you up, you're confused and think that speculating and guessing are different, when in fact they are not and that is all you are doing.

You have not been clear, you've been confusing and contradicting.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 20 avril 2012 - 03:29 .

[brian_breed]

You're a circle.

[Uncle Jo]

KevShep wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Aaleel wrote...


That would be fine if this were the first crack at it.  But this is supposed to be clarification not more questions.  OK it's the IT.  How did Shepard get buried in slabs on concrete in the middle of an open hill?  How come the beam just didn't kill Shepard outright like it did Garrus and Liara in the deleted scene?  How come two different VIs couldn't detect indocrtrination, when one spotted Kai Leng 100 yards off?  Why is there only one choice when your war assets are low, isn't the premise built on three choices?

And the real life million dollar question, is even Bioware crazy enough to sell the final game of a trilogy with at best a fake ending, and at worst no ending at all.

This ^^. But you won't get an answer. Or better, you're missing the artistic vision of the ending...

Before ME3's release Bioware said they wanted "Speculation from Everyone"...Why? I answered this question in this same thread on page 2 I think in reguards to EA. 

That's why they came with the Starchild ? Is it really what they wanted ? There's a slightly little difference between what they say and what they (can) do. Same goes for the next DLC Extended Cut...
The IT was never mentioned anywhere. Not even in the leaked script, in the brainstorming-session, or from Drew Karpyshyn... Nothing..
It came just from fans who were trying to fin a logical explanation to the simple fact that Bioware scr***d up. You know the devs are only humans, who also can make mistakes, they're not infallible gods that we can not apprehend... It will always be bad games or games with bad endings...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 20 avril 2012 - 03:32 .

[FatalX7.0]

brian_breed wrote...

You're a circle.

That's what I said.

[KevShep]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


How is an echoing audio effect a fact or proof of anything.

Shepard is dreaming about this kid right?

Everytime he dreams more is added to it...like "oily Shadows" of people that the Rachni queen in ME1 mentions as indoctrination. You see oily Shadows of people in his/her dream.

The catalyst just happends to look like the kid (with no explanation) in an area that seems off or not right. Not to mention that what he says is not the direction of the series and shepard just accepts it like one would in a dream.

The last 10 minutes also has everything in it you have seen throughout all three games mixed in to create the illision that one can catch if they are paying attention.

Shepard is talking through the catalyst and when you put the other pices in place you see the Artistic integrity that we are seeing the indoctrination of the PLAYER.

And to answer your question...It proves that there is something more, the new question is what?

I asked where your facts are.

And I ask again, where are they?

Have you played ME1 and heard her talking about oily shadows?
Have you not heard Shepard in the catalyst voice?
Have you not noticed that the ending makes no sense at all?
Have you not seen the large gray bricks everywhere in london but nowhere in the citadel where shepard was?
Have you not been listening at all?

Ive given you facts Iam not going to hold your hand. Its there!

[Bill Casey]

gmboy902 wrote...

Here's something better than the IT.

Everything past Anderson/TIM's deaths. Scrap it. Start with a new ending. The end.

That's not better...
That means Shepard went the entire trilogy fighting monsters that manipulate minds and the mind manipulating monsters never tried to manipulate his mind...

[brian_breed]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

brian_breed wrote...

You're a circle.

That's what I said.

That's what I said you said. So now I'm standing on a fact standing on a circle.

And you are more circular now than ever.