255 réponses à ce sujet

[liggy002]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Aaleel wrote...


That would be fine if this were the first crack at it.  But this is supposed to be clarification not more questions.  OK it's the IT.  How did Shepard get buried in slabs on concrete in the middle of an open hill?  How come the beam just didn't kill Shepard outright like it did Garrus and Liara in the deleted scene?  How come two different VIs couldn't detect indocrtrination, when one spotted Kai Leng 100 yards off?  Why is there only one choice when your war assets are low, isn't the premise built on three choices?

And the real life million dollar question, is even Bioware crazy enough to sell the final game of a trilogy with at best a fake ending, and at worst no ending at all.

This ^^. But you won't get an answer. Or better, you're missing the artistic vision of the ending...

Well, they were crazy enough to sell the game with an A,B,C ending and a Reaper off button when they said they weren't going to.  Or does it just appear this way?  I doubt anyone would succesfully sue them if the IT theory proved true. 

And as for the wind, I did notice that before.  There is no wind in space.

Modifié par liggy002, 20 avril 2012 - 03:35 .

[brian_breed]

Bill Casey wrote...

gmboy902 wrote...

Here's something better than the IT.

Everything past Anderson/TIM's deaths. Scrap it. Start with a new ending. The end.

That's not better...
That means Shepard went the entire trilogy fighting monsters that manipulate minds and the mind manipulating monsters never tried to manipulate his mind...

This is a good point. I think it's why I like the concept of Indoctrination Theory. It makes good narrative sense that Shepard, the single most influential person in the Mass Effect galaxy, would become the target of Reaper sabotage.

I'm not saying that makes IT the best account for the narrative or anything, don't get me wrong. I just think it explains why some people would lend credence to IT.

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


How is an echoing audio effect a fact or proof of anything.

Shepard is dreaming about this kid right?

Everytime he dreams more is added to it...like "oily Shadows" of people that the Rachni queen in ME1 mentions as indoctrination. You see oily Shadows of people in his/her dream.

The catalyst just happends to look like the kid (with no explanation) in an area that seems off or not right. Not to mention that what he says is not the direction of the series and shepard just accepts it like one would in a dream.

The last 10 minutes also has everything in it you have seen throughout all three games mixed in to create the illision that one can catch if they are paying attention.

Shepard is talking through the catalyst and when you put the other pices in place you see the Artistic integrity that we are seeing the indoctrination of the PLAYER.

And to answer your question...It proves that there is something more, the new question is what?

I asked where your facts are.

And I ask again, where are they?

Have you played ME1 and heard her talking about oily shadows?  Yes.
Have you not heard Shepard in the catalyst voice? It's an echoing audo effect, nothing more.
Have you not noticed that the ending makes no sense at all? Well obviously, it was written by two people without the rest of the team.
Have you not seen the large gray bricks everywhere in london but nowhere in the citadel where shepard was? Like the rest of the gray crap on the Citadel that's been burnt and destroyed?
Have you not been listening at all? You don't "listen" to text.

Ive given you facts Iam not going to hold your hand. Its there!

[FatalX7.0]

brian_breed wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

brian_breed wrote...

You're a circle.

That's what I said.

That's what I said you said. So now I'm standing on a fact standing on a circle.

And you are more circular now than ever.

I'd rather be a square.

[liggy002]

brian_breed wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

gmboy902 wrote...

Here's something better than the IT.

Everything past Anderson/TIM's deaths. Scrap it. Start with a new ending. The end.

That's not better...
That means Shepard went the entire trilogy fighting monsters that manipulate minds and the mind manipulating monsters never tried to manipulate his mind...

This is a good point. I think it's why I like the concept of Indoctrination Theory. It makes good narrative sense that Shepard, the single most influential person in the Mass Effect galaxy, would become the target of Reaper sabotage.

I'm not saying that makes IT the best account for the narrative or anything, don't get me wrong. I just think it explains why some people would lend credence to IT.

Well, I wouldn't say they never tried to mindscrew him.  They tried to in Arrival, so why not in ME3?

[brian_breed]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

brian_breed wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

brian_breed wrote...

You're a circle.

That's what I said.

That's what I said you said. So now I'm standing on a fact standing on a circle.

And you are more circular now than ever.

I'd rather be a square.

And circle gets the square.

Endgame goes to you. I tip my hat.

[KevShep]

Uncle Jo wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Aaleel wrote...


That would be fine if this were the first crack at it.  But this is supposed to be clarification not more questions.  OK it's the IT.  How did Shepard get buried in slabs on concrete in the middle of an open hill?  How come the beam just didn't kill Shepard outright like it did Garrus and Liara in the deleted scene?  How come two different VIs couldn't detect indocrtrination, when one spotted Kai Leng 100 yards off?  Why is there only one choice when your war assets are low, isn't the premise built on three choices?

And the real life million dollar question, is even Bioware crazy enough to sell the final game of a trilogy with at best a fake ending, and at worst no ending at all.

This ^^. But you won't get an answer. Or better, you're missing the artistic vision of the ending...

Before ME3's release Bioware said they wanted "Speculation from Everyone"...Why? I answered this question in this same thread on page 2 I think in reguards to EA. 

That's why they came with the Starchild ? Is it really what they wanted ? There's a slightly little difference between what they say and what they (can) do. Same goes for the next DLC Extended Cut...
The IT was never mentioned anywhere. Not even in the leaked script, in the brainstorming-session, or from Drew Karpyshyn... Nothing..
It came just from fans which were trying to fin a logical explanation to the simple fact that Bioware scr***d up. You know the devs are only humans, who also can make mistakes, they're not infallible gods that we can not apprehend... It will always be bad games or games with bad endings...

Iam not going into the leaked script because the whole thing seemed shady on Bioware's part. I mean, they put the whole story of ME3 on a Beta that had nothing to do with the endings for employes to test the beta that "accadently" made it to Live?

There are really interesting things all over ME3 that clearly point to it so I think that this is there artistic integrity at work.

If the ending was going to be as is then They were never going to explain why the star kid looks like the kid from his dreams and why shepard never notices it!   Along with the whole shepards/catalyst's voice thing!
 
Because it is the I.T. they are not going to say anything about it because its a spoiler and that is why they have not stamped it out like they would have if it was not I.T..

[FatalX7.0]

The dreams are just that - dreams.

The ghostly figures increase over the course of the game to represent that more and more people are dying in the war, yet the child still stands out to Shepard. It haunts him, which is why the child is the only one with a real apperance, a face. (Just a cheap attempt to make players feel something)

The 'oily shadows'? The tendrils that show up when TIM uses his Reaper implants to control you and Anderson.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 20 avril 2012 - 03:44 .

[Auralius Carolus]

brian_breed wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

gmboy902 wrote...

Here's something better than the IT.

Everything past Anderson/TIM's deaths. Scrap it. Start with a new ending. The end.

That's not better...
That means Shepard went the entire trilogy fighting monsters that manipulate minds and the mind manipulating monsters never tried to manipulate his mind...

This is a good point. I think it's why I like the concept of Indoctrination Theory. It makes good narrative sense that Shepard, the single most influential person in the Mass Effect galaxy, would become the target of Reaper sabotage.

I'm not saying that makes IT the best account for the narrative or anything, don't get me wrong. I just think it explains why some people would lend credence to IT.

Something I've noticed about other IT people is this: We like to analyze stuff- sometimes over-analyze. There's actually a fricken truckload of evidence for the IT, however, most is circumstancial or subjective... but some is fairly solid with predictable linier progression, narratively. The amount of apparently contradictory or ambiguous material/statements, (as well as an overarching negative mood), keeps suspision high on those who don't believe or haven't been willing to look.

For those of us who are attempting to sift through the information, quantifying and qualifying what we find, we just ask for reasonable skepticism, (or so I think it's safe to say).

[liggy002]

And why does the boy tell Shepard "You can't help me." That sounds a lot like a couple of guys I know: Sovereign, Harbinger, and the Reaper on Rannoch. You know, those guys. They tell Shepard that no matter what he does, it wont make a difference. His fighting is hopeless. "Everyone is dying" and "You can't help me." They are both demoralizing statements and are both the doctrine of the Reapers.

Modifié par liggy002, 20 avril 2012 - 03:45 .

[FatalX7.0]

Also, please stop using the term "Artistiic Integrity" in regards to the ending. It's inaccurate.

There is no integrity, nor is it artistic to rip off the ending to Deus Ex almost completely, along with elements of Battlestar Galactic.

[liggy002]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Also, please stop using the term "Artistiic Integrity" in regards to the ending. It's inaccurate.

There is no integrity, nor is it artistic to rip off the ending to Deus Ex almost completely, along with elements of Battlestar Galactic.

Well, I haven't played Deus Ex, but I think that we can least agree that neither of us liked the ending.

[Bill Casey]

It's like if Batman was fighting the Scarecrow, and everything got weird and trippy and dreamlike towards the end, you might think it's fear gas...

That's essentially what IT is...

[KevShep]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


How is an echoing audio effect a fact or proof of anything.

Shepard is dreaming about this kid right?

Everytime he dreams more is added to it...like "oily Shadows" of people that the Rachni queen in ME1 mentions as indoctrination. You see oily Shadows of people in his/her dream.

The catalyst just happends to look like the kid (with no explanation) in an area that seems off or not right. Not to mention that what he says is not the direction of the series and shepard just accepts it like one would in a dream.

The last 10 minutes also has everything in it you have seen throughout all three games mixed in to create the illision that one can catch if they are paying attention.

Shepard is talking through the catalyst and when you put the other pices in place you see the Artistic integrity that we are seeing the indoctrination of the PLAYER.

And to answer your question...It proves that there is something more, the new question is what?

I asked where your facts are.

And I ask again, where are they?

Have you played ME1 and heard her talking about oily shadows?  Yes.
Have you not heard Shepard in the catalyst voice? It's an echoing audo effect, nothing more.
Have you not noticed that the ending makes no sense at all? Well obviously, it was written by two people without the rest of the team.
Have you not seen the large gray bricks everywhere in london but nowhere in the citadel where shepard was? Like the rest of the gray crap on the Citadel that's been burnt and destroyed?
Have you not been listening at all? You don't "listen" to text.

Ive given you facts Iam not going to hold your hand. Its there!

How can you even say that it is ONLY an audio effcet and nothing more? !!!!!  I just dont know how to respond to that!

How do you know that it was writen by two people? If its messed up then it just mite be a dream shepard is having, but that is stupid because there would be some way to know...oh wait...we do know...he/she has been dreaming off and on about this same kid!

He/she cant breath on the citadel so thats out of the question...Oh, there is ALOT of gray bricks from the place that I WAS JUST FROM BEFORE IT ALL WENT CRAZY.

Your text dont have facts!

[FatalX7.0]

liggy002 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Also, please stop using the term "Artistiic Integrity" in regards to the ending. It's inaccurate.

There is no integrity, nor is it artistic to rip off the ending to Deus Ex almost completely, along with elements of Battlestar Galactic.

Well, I haven't played Deus Ex, but I think that we can least agree that neither of us liked the ending.

In Deus Ex you get three choices.

Merge with the Helios AI.

Destroy the global communications hub and send the world into a new dark age.

Or you can rule the world with compassion alongside the Illuminate.


In Mass Effect 3 you get three choices.

Merge synthetic and organic DNA.

Destroy the Mass Relays, which includes the communication buoys as they need the Relays to work, sending the galaxy into a technological dark age.

Or you can control the Reapers.

[Uncle Jo]

KevShep wrote...


Iam not going into the leaked script because the whole thing seemed shady on Bioware's part. I mean, they put the whole story of ME3 on a Beta that had nothing to do with the endings for employes to test the beta that "accadently" made it to Live?

There are really interesting things all over ME3 that clearly point to it so I think that this is there artistic integrity at work.

If the ending was going to be as is then They were never going to explain why the star kid looks like the kid from his dreams and why shepard never notices it!   Along with the whole shepards/catalyst's voice thing!
 
Because it is the I.T. they are not going to say anything about it because its a spoiler and that is why they have not stamped it out like they would have if it was not I.T..

The Shepards/CAtalyst voice is the only argument you're coming up with... And trust me (pleeeeease do!!) it's irrelevant... It's just a sound effect. A hint to the IT would be much clearer.

I've already said it, I know the IT pretty much. I'll repeat it for the last time... A twist-ending leading to the IT would make sense, only if revealed RIGHT AFTER YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE, it's a basic scenario-rule...


By the way,  you said that THEY ARE NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE IT'S A SPOILER"....

Don't you think it's a little bit late for that ?????

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 20 avril 2012 - 03:57 .

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


How is an echoing audio effect a fact or proof of anything.

Shepard is dreaming about this kid right?

Everytime he dreams more is added to it...like "oily Shadows" of people that the Rachni queen in ME1 mentions as indoctrination. You see oily Shadows of people in his/her dream.

The catalyst just happends to look like the kid (with no explanation) in an area that seems off or not right. Not to mention that what he says is not the direction of the series and shepard just accepts it like one would in a dream.

The last 10 minutes also has everything in it you have seen throughout all three games mixed in to create the illision that one can catch if they are paying attention.

Shepard is talking through the catalyst and when you put the other pices in place you see the Artistic integrity that we are seeing the indoctrination of the PLAYER.

And to answer your question...It proves that there is something more, the new question is what?

I asked where your facts are.

And I ask again, where are they?

Have you played ME1 and heard her talking about oily shadows?  Yes.
Have you not heard Shepard in the catalyst voice? It's an echoing audo effect, nothing more.
Have you not noticed that the ending makes no sense at all? Well obviously, it was written by two people without the rest of the team.
Have you not seen the large gray bricks everywhere in london but nowhere in the citadel where shepard was? Like the rest of the gray crap on the Citadel that's been burnt and destroyed?
Have you not been listening at all? You don't "listen" to text.

Ive given you facts Iam not going to hold your hand. Its there!

How can you even say that it is ONLY an audio effcet and nothing more? !!!!!  I just dont know how to respond to that!

How do you know that it was writen by two people? If its messed up then it just mite be a dream shepard is having, but that is stupid because there would be some way to know...oh wait...we do know...he/she has been dreaming off and on about this same kid!

He/she cant breath on the citadel so thats out of the question...Oh, there is ALOT of gray bricks from the place that I WAS JUST FROM BEFORE IT ALL WENT CRAZY.

Your text dont have facts!

How can you say that an audio effect is more than an audio effect? How do you even know that it's Shepard's voice? I have pretty good hearing and these headphones are great. The only thing I hear is God Childs voice echoing.

And when Shepard talks on his/her own, his/her voice echoes as well.

How do I know it was written by two people? The internet.

And I already talked about the dreams. They're just that, dreams. He's also dreaming about his lost friends and the people dying in the war.

Also, the Citadel isn't completely destroyed anyway, and based on what Bioware says, lots of people are still alive. Kinect barriers and whatnot.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 20 avril 2012 - 03:56 .

[KevShep]

Uncle Jo wrote...

KevShep wrote...


Iam not going into the leaked script because the whole thing seemed shady on Bioware's part. I mean, they put the whole story of ME3 on a Beta that had nothing to do with the endings for employes to test the beta that "accadently" made it to Live?

There are really interesting things all over ME3 that clearly point to it so I think that this is there artistic integrity at work.

If the ending was going to be as is then They were never going to explain why the star kid looks like the kid from his dreams and why shepard never notices it!   Along with the whole shepards/catalyst's voice thing!
 
Because it is the I.T. they are not going to say anything about it because its a spoiler and that is why they have not stamped it out like they would have if it was not I.T..

The Shepards/CAtalyst voice is the only argument you're coming up with... And trust me (pleeeeease do!!) it's irrelevant... It's just a sound effect. A hint to the IT would be much clearer.

I've already said it, I know the IT pretty much. I'll repeat it for the last time... A twist-ending leading to the IT, would make sense, only if revealed AFTER YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE, it's a basic scenario-rule...


By the way,  you said that THEY ARE NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE IT'S A SPOILER"....

Don't you think it's a little bit late for that ?????

No its not late beacuse the DLC is not out yet.

I would like to know how you know that its just a sound effect about the catalyst and why your SSSOOOO sure?

[liggy002]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Also, please stop using the term "Artistiic Integrity" in regards to the ending. It's inaccurate.

There is no integrity, nor is it artistic to rip off the ending to Deus Ex almost completely, along with elements of Battlestar Galactic.

Well, I haven't played Deus Ex, but I think that we can least agree that neither of us liked the ending.

In Deus Ex you get three choices.

Merge with the Helios AI.

Destroy the global communications hub and send the world into a new dark age.

Or you can rule the world with compassion alongside the Illuminate.


In Mass Effect 3 you get three choices.

Merge synthetic and organic DNA.

Destroy the Mass Relays, which includes the communication buoys as they need the Relays to work, sending the galaxy into a technological dark age.

Or you can control the Reapers.

Wow, it is scary how similar those 2 endings are.

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

KevShep wrote...


Iam not going into the leaked script because the whole thing seemed shady on Bioware's part. I mean, they put the whole story of ME3 on a Beta that had nothing to do with the endings for employes to test the beta that "accadently" made it to Live?

There are really interesting things all over ME3 that clearly point to it so I think that this is there artistic integrity at work.

If the ending was going to be as is then They were never going to explain why the star kid looks like the kid from his dreams and why shepard never notices it!   Along with the whole shepards/catalyst's voice thing!
 
Because it is the I.T. they are not going to say anything about it because its a spoiler and that is why they have not stamped it out like they would have if it was not I.T..

The Shepards/CAtalyst voice is the only argument you're coming up with... And trust me (pleeeeease do!!) it's irrelevant... It's just a sound effect. A hint to the IT would be much clearer.

I've already said it, I know the IT pretty much. I'll repeat it for the last time... A twist-ending leading to the IT, would make sense, only if revealed AFTER YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE, it's a basic scenario-rule...


By the way,  you said that THEY ARE NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE IT'S A SPOILER"....

Don't you think it's a little bit late for that ?????

No its not late beacuse the DLC is not out yet.

I would like to know how you know that its just a sound effect about the catalyst and why your SSSOOOO sure?

Why are you so sure that it means something?

Just because it's there it has to mean something?

[KevShep]

FatalX7.0 wrote...


How can you say that an audio effect is more than an audio effect? How do you even know that it's Shepard's voice? I have pretty good hearing and these headphones are great. The only thing I hear is God Childs voice echoing.

And when Shepard talks on his/her own, his/her voice echoes as well.

How do I know it was written by two people? The internet.

AAnd I already talked about the dreams. They're just that, dreams. He's also dreaming about his lost friends and the people dying in the war.

 
You said that you heard it!!!!!!! (sigh) Its hard to hear because eh/she is wispering it. It does get more clear as the conversation goes on.

The internet is also run by trolls and other crap so again there is no evidence.

Your forgetting that the point of the dreams revolved around the kid NOT his friends.

[FatalX7.0]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

The dreams are just that - dreams.

The ghostly figures increase over the course of the game to represent that more and more people are dying in the war, yet the child still stands out to Shepard. It haunts him, which is why the child is the only one with a real apperance, a face. (Just a cheap attempt to make players feel something)

The 'oily shadows'? The tendrils that show up when TIM uses his Reaper implants to control you and Anderson.

And the dreams are also about his squad mates. You can hear their voices in the background, calling Shepard's name.

One of my team asked me about the dreams, Ashley? Or Liara? I dunno, I had the option to say I dreamt about Kaidan...but he wasn't there aside from his voice.

Just seemed kinda stupid.

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...


How can you say that an audio effect is more than an audio effect? How do you even know that it's Shepard's voice? I have pretty good hearing and these headphones are great. The only thing I hear is God Childs voice echoing.

And when Shepard talks on his/her own, his/her voice echoes as well.

How do I know it was written by two people? The internet.

AAnd I already talked about the dreams. They're just that, dreams. He's also dreaming about his lost friends and the people dying in the war.

 
You said that you heard it!!!!!!! (sigh) Its hard to hear because eh/she is wispering it. It does get more clear as the conversation goes on.

The internet is also run by trolls and other crap so again there is no evidence.

Your forgetting that the point of the dreams revolved around the kid NOT his friends.

It was a post from a Bioware employees account that stated that Casey and Mac wrote the ending without input from the rest of the team.

And I never said that I heard Shepard's voice in the background.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 20 avril 2012 - 04:02 .

[KevShep]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

KevShep wrote...


Iam not going into the leaked script because the whole thing seemed shady on Bioware's part. I mean, they put the whole story of ME3 on a Beta that had nothing to do with the endings for employes to test the beta that "accadently" made it to Live?

There are really interesting things all over ME3 that clearly point to it so I think that this is there artistic integrity at work.

If the ending was going to be as is then They were never going to explain why the star kid looks like the kid from his dreams and why shepard never notices it!   Along with the whole shepards/catalyst's voice thing!
 
Because it is the I.T. they are not going to say anything about it because its a spoiler and that is why they have not stamped it out like they would have if it was not I.T..

The Shepards/CAtalyst voice is the only argument you're coming up with... And trust me (pleeeeease do!!) it's irrelevant... It's just a sound effect. A hint to the IT would be much clearer.

I've already said it, I know the IT pretty much. I'll repeat it for the last time... A twist-ending leading to the IT, would make sense, only if revealed AFTER YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE, it's a basic scenario-rule...


By the way,  you said that THEY ARE NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE IT'S A SPOILER"....

Don't you think it's a little bit late for that ?????

No its not late beacuse the DLC is not out yet.

I would like to know how you know that its just a sound effect about the catalyst and why your SSSOOOO sure?

Why are you so sure that it means something?

Just because it's there it has to mean something?

"Just because it's there it has to mean something?"

YES!!!!  Why is it there?

[FatalX7.0]

KevShep wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

KevShep wrote...


Iam not going into the leaked script because the whole thing seemed shady on Bioware's part. I mean, they put the whole story of ME3 on a Beta that had nothing to do with the endings for employes to test the beta that "accadently" made it to Live?

There are really interesting things all over ME3 that clearly point to it so I think that this is there artistic integrity at work.

If the ending was going to be as is then They were never going to explain why the star kid looks like the kid from his dreams and why shepard never notices it!   Along with the whole shepards/catalyst's voice thing!
 
Because it is the I.T. they are not going to say anything about it because its a spoiler and that is why they have not stamped it out like they would have if it was not I.T..

The Shepards/CAtalyst voice is the only argument you're coming up with... And trust me (pleeeeease do!!) it's irrelevant... It's just a sound effect. A hint to the IT would be much clearer.

I've already said it, I know the IT pretty much. I'll repeat it for the last time... A twist-ending leading to the IT, would make sense, only if revealed AFTER YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE, it's a basic scenario-rule...


By the way,  you said that THEY ARE NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING BECAUSE IT'S A SPOILER"....

Don't you think it's a little bit late for that ?????

No its not late beacuse the DLC is not out yet.

I would like to know how you know that its just a sound effect about the catalyst and why your SSSOOOO sure?

Why are you so sure that it means something?

Just because it's there it has to mean something?

"Just because it's there it has to mean something?"

YES!!!!  Why is it there?

I don't even know what to say anymore.